Amendments to Training Syllabus. CASA charges for "approval"?

[A37575]

Question: Our company operations manual includes the endorsement syllabus for each type of aircraft we operate (Chieftain, C550 and two others). CASA has a copy of the company operations manual which is "approved" or is it "accepted"?

The company has made minor changes to the endorsement syllabus involving for example addition of extra instrument flying training and also deletion of some paragraphs to make more grammatical sense.

The question has arisen of whether we merely send the amended training syllabus to CASA as a matter of courtesy for their file update - OR - having received the revised syllabus, does CASA have to "approve" the changes before we implement them? In other words what is the score on this sort of thing?

The company understandably does not wish to incur more expense than legally necessary if CASA charge for "approving" the proposed amendments to a syllabus. On the other hand one can see the temptation to avoid making any changes to a previously "CASA approved syllabus" if CASA charge an arm and a leg for reading a few pages of amendments which do not affect flight safety - in fact the changes improve flight safety

[fl610]

Logic will not be a factor! :ugh:

[Dog One]

I would suggest that as the changes are to the Check and Training part of your manual, that approval will need to be sought from CASA.

[SIUYA]

A37575………..

Good question. Dog One’s right, and here’s why!

The use of the word 'approval' invariably implies a signature to a document. So, because an approval document expresses the regulatory authority’s (in this case, CASAs) legal finding, it needs to be in accordance with regulatory requirements (national law........CARs etc). An approval normally stipulates conditions. Therefore, before the regulatory authority (eg CASA) can grant the approval, it must first make a satisfactory technical finding.

The use of the word ‘acceptance’ on the other hand, refers to matters on which the authority decides on how its agreement is to be given. In other words, a legal finding may not be needed.

Because an amendment to your endorsement syllabus should include (by necessity) the development of common standards of competency as part of an acceptable training programme under Part 5 of the 1988 CARs, amendment to the syllabus will (or should) need approval of the CASA, because the syllabus of all training that is being amended MUST remain relevant to the operator's needs. So you will be stuck with the CASA charges to approve the amendment I’d say.

Whether those charges are fair and reasonable is another matter! :uhoh:

I don’t work for CASA (and never have). :}

[Horatio Leafblower]

In my experience (10 years as a CP/CFI) you can generally treat CASA as just another manual holder and distribute amendment pages to them as you would to the rest of your pilots. I have never been charged by CASA for the pleasure of sending them amendments!

CAR 217 is another matter but if the changes are as you have described (ie: housekeeping/minor) then I cannot imagine they will sting you. The FOIs I know are generally not that way inclined, at any rate.

...why don't you ring them and ask? :eek:

[SIUYA]

Horatio..........

Yes, good point(s). I should have said:

So you will be stuck with the CASA charges to approve the amendment I’d say....IF they choose to charge you!

The decision of course is up to the FOI(s) who look after A37575's 'interests'.

[RUMBEAR]

I have had the same experience as Horatio. Your company already holds any relevant approvals via the fact you have an AOC and conduct whatever operations (including training and checking under CAR 217). Your manual is yours to review and amend as you see fit. However it is a legal document and if any changes mean you are no longer complying with relevant legislation then you are making problems for yourself in future. CASA are only a manual holder, but have the right to criticise the contents whenever they see fit, especially during audits!!! So NO CHARGE.
If your trying to gain a new approval to operatate another aircraft type or engage in a different type of operation (ie vary your AOC), then CASA will absolutely charge for the time it will take to review your documentation to ensure compliance.

Cheers :ok:

[Mach E Avelli]

I would suggest that you send CASA a DRAFT amendment to the CAR 217 Check and Training Manual (if it is that which you are amending). Summarise the changes with any necessary cross-reference to a changed syllabus in the CAOs etc. Give them 30 days to comment, thus making it easy for them.
If they are out to give you a hard time they may come back with a requirement to 'approve' it and charge you for the privilege. But if the changes are only to correct typos and to comply with THEIR changed rules, you have done them a big favour. So, they should either comment as in 'good oh, fill yer boots' or (more likely) do nothing. In which case after 30 days, you publish and circulate the amendment to them along with your own manual holders. If they then object, your response is 'you had your chance'.
That's how I have always done it with the 217 manual and aircraft checklists - because of the 'approved ' nature of these. Never had a problem.

[601]

If it is a change to CAR 217 Training and Checking Manual approval it will probably result in a charge as T & C manuals are "approved" whereas other parts of the OM are only "accepted".

Don't forget to include an "amendment certification" to ensure that CASA do in fact insert the amendment in their copy of your operations manual and that they do return the certification to your CP.

[A37575]

Thank you all very much for your comments. They are really appreciated.
A37575.