Jetstar more direct due weather??

[horserun]

Three times now I have heard Jetstar NZ asking for more direct due weather. The nights have been gin clear, and there has been no f**king weather about.

We all do little things like this on occasion, but you guys are just taking the p*ss now!


Spoke to a mate in Radar about it, and he said there has already been a heap of complaints from other controllers, and pilots about Jetstar.

Boys!! Clean your act up! You haven’t even been flying the domestic for a week yet!!

[Pamelah Andersen]

Amateurs ;)

[greenslopes]

Begs the question;

Why does an operator have to make up weather diversions to attain direct tracking?
If direct tracking is offered routinely O/S we should be able to do the same here, particularly when we have less aircraft in the sky (than say Europe for arguments sake).
Before you shoot the operators for trying to reduce fuel burn and flight times perhaps the system in use is irrelevant in this day of RNAV operations.

[The Green Goblin]

Hell if I were flying the bus, I'd be asking for direct in case of weather too.

[OneDotLow]

Twas a clear crisp NZ winter night. Above the land of the long white cloud an A320 was just leveling out at FL370.

Flight Attendant : Brings a couple of white teas up after top of climb. "Gee its a nice clear night tonight eh fellas! I can see all the way from Auckland to Invercargill!"

Capt : Reaches around to grab a cuppa off the flighties tray. "You leave the aviating stuff to us, sweetcheeks!"

F/O : Head down fiddling with the radar tilt.... Mutters to himself "...minus 3...nothing..... minus 4.... starting to get a paint now...minus 5... Eh skipper! Take a look at this bro - its all red from 40 miles out!"

Capt : Looks down at his own display "No bro, theres nothing there."

F/O : "But your display is not switched on"

Capt : Turns to the hostie"Ah thanks for the cuppa love, you better get back now or they'll start talking about you."

Flight deck door firmly shuts.

Capt : Pushes the terrain display switch "Oh... Looks like there is some weather around the Mt Cook area. Its all green though.. should be right"

F/O : "But skipper you're in Terrain mode"

Capt : "You leave the aviating stuff to me, bloggs" Fiddles with a few switches and finally displays the radar down at minus 5 "**** BLOGGS! Where are you going?!?! That weather at Mt Cook just went all red bro! I have control. Get me 50 miles left and right of track!"

The above scenario is completely fictitious and has no resemblance whatsoever to reality. Any similarity of names, places and events is purely coincidental. It is purely for your entertainment and enjoyment. In fact you could probably insert any operator you like in there. Maybe even a captain you know (or an F/O for that matter - for you Capts out there). Just because its written in an Aussie & NZ subforum, under the thread name 'Jetstar more direct due weather??' doesn't mean it is necessarily suggesting that the above could happen on a JQNZ flight deck... does it?

:ok:

[horserun]

ha ha ha ha ha.......f**ken gold!!!!

[HEALY]

That is genius mate...nice work

I also wonder why all the dramas also with RNAV and the dead of night. You can depart London and be just about given direct to the Russian FIR boundary in the middle of the day.

[ZK-NSN]

No bro, theres nothing there

Cant be jet star NZ, their all Aussie drivers (soon to be mexican). Would be more like: "stone the crows, tie me kangaroo down sport, thats not how you work the weather radar ya galah"

"comfy leather seats".....wank

[Keg]

No, no, no, no, no. As our dear leader KRudd pointed out multiple times last week, the correct vernacular is:

Fair shake of the sauce bottle mate.

For it to be really effective you need to say it at least three times within 30 seconds.

[RENURPP]

Couldn't be Jetstar, the CC wouldn't be offering tea, certainly not on a tray! :eek:

[The Green Goblin]

In my clan we always said fair suck of the sauce bottle :ok:

[Howard Hughes]

Gotta say GG it was always 'suck' in my clan too!:ok:
"stone the crows, tie me kangaroo down sport, thats not how you work the weather radar ya galah"
Only if Bazza McKenzie was PIC!:rolleyes:

[RedTBar]

Couldn't be Jetstar, the CC wouldn't be offering tea, certainly not on a tray!
He would be very thirsty and hungry if he used a line like this.
"You leave the aviating stuff to us, sweetcheeks!"

[DirtyPierre]

Said in an upper class, private schoolboy voice

ya goose! :O Krudd went to Nambour bloody State High School. All us private boys know that he's a "stanley". (Stanley Stateschooler).

[haughtney1]

Spoke to a mate in Radar about it, and he said there has already been a heap of complaints from other controllers, and pilots about Jetstar.

Boys!! Clean your act up! You haven’t even been flying the domestic for a week yet!!

Oh for crying out loud.....how precious, how many other aircraft in NZ airspace will be at FL370 at any given time? 3 mayby 4?
Why not just clear them all to the IAF after getting above FL300 or so? god knows..all you really need to do is stay upwind of the alps when theres a bit of wave about..and up wind of Ruapehu when its getting a bit of indigestion..:8

[27/09]

Greenslopes

Begs the question;

Why does an operator have to make up weather diversions to attain direct tracking?
If direct tracking is offered routinely O/S we should be able to do the same here, particularly when we have less aircraft in the sky (than say Europe for arguments sake).


Yep certainly does beg the question, especially when direct routing is always available here, traffic etc permitting. You have to wonder why they are making up the weather diversions. I've heard them ask for similar myself, it didn't make sense unless they were trying to bump themselves up the arrival order.

[turbantime]

I hear it's because they're having to pay cash for fuel...more direct routing means less money needed from the ATM after the crew do a walk around for the next sector. :ok:

[Transition Layer]

Hell if I were flying the bus, I'd be asking for direct in case of weather too.

Gold! (extra words to satisfy pprune)

[framer]

ATC in NZ is second rate in my opinion.
speed up...slow down...speed up...min clean please...best speed on final... expedite vacating ...
evey time you change freq they want something different. How often do you run the whole star into wellington for 34 when approaching from the north??my guess is about 10% of the time, how about making stars that we can stick to? ie ones that work? I asked a senoir controller why this is once and he said they don't communicate with each other....it's best guess.
Australia and Asia are far superior.

[27/09]

Framer

ATC in NZ is second rate in my opinion.
speed up...slow down...speed up...min clean please...best speed on final... expedite vacating ...


You are dead right, they are down right shocking at times. This actually deserves another thread.

Some controllers are very good but there is getting to be less and less of them. You just have to look at the recruiting process to find out why.

However this has nothing to do with these unusual requests from the Jetstar jockeys.

[belowMDA]

While this thread isn't about ATC in NZ I feel I need to put the boot in a bit too. The lack of communication between sectors is abysmal, even if you prompt them about something in the next sector you get a thinly veiled 'F*** off I'm too busy scratching my balls to help you.' The Airways management goes on about some random environment award they won off a cereal box whereas their day to day practice wastes so much fuel it is astounding. Controllers may crap on about "Bigger picture", but if they actually did have the bigger picture then a lot of the inefficiencies would not be happening. Not wanting to tar them all with the same brush I think WN tower is generally more helpful and consistent.
As for making up crap about wx to deviate around, at least have the guts be honest and just say request more direct. No lies, just a friendly inquiry. You're not kidding anyone.:=

[Jabawocky]

Weeez no diffrentt OS

Weez luvs a fair cracka the whip!

Of course we did not suck on suace bottles, however some of the Nudgee and Grammar lads may have been.......... :oh: :mad:.

:ok:

[blueloo]

Do you get better "direct" tracking in NZ, if you ask for "more" direct tracking as opposed to "direct" tracking? :}

[chimbu warrior]

Flight Attendant : Brings a couple of white teas up after top of climb

"that'll be six dollars please............each"

[Offcut]

Settle down fellas, its not just NZ ATC that throw the odd curve ball. Heading into MEL a while back, ATC advise " Cross XXX (cant remember the point) at time :18, maintain 260 knots".

Seems to me that to make an RTA you need to be able to control your own speed, or have a flux capacitor, which I'm told is standard on the 787.

[Bo777]

Start a new thread on this ATC issue. Going into SYD the controllers without fail give me the sh:mad:s. They need to do a couple of months at Heathrow or O'Hare.

[snoop doggy dog]

Try China :ugh:

[Ramboflyer 1]

If You only have 2 years jet experience and a new J* command its probably best the radar paint the hills and you go around them.

[framer]

" Cross XXX (cant remember the point) at time :18, maintain 260 knots".

Yip...the 260 would have been from the point they wanted you to cross at time blah blah, they normally make that quite clear.Obviously not in this case. I don't think it's individual controllers fault very often, I think they do the best they can within an average system. It just needs a bit of logic applied.eg if you told a 16 year old school girl with no flying experience that 80% of the time heading into WN from the north for 34 you will track a few miles west of Karori and end up on a 5 mile final you can bet your ass they'd make that one of the stars that can be loaded in the box, but not our planners no, the one you do most often is the one you have to build. As a result lots don't build it (which is fine by me) and just suck it and see. On the other hand, there is a massive track mile star that takes you half way to CH that you get issued with but rarely use. Brilliant.
A lot of the time if you ask in the cruise whether or not to expect the star or a visual the answer is quite long winded but leaves you none the wiser (I'm picturing AA here), the result? Head down earlier, burn more gas when they send you round the long way. The savings from five or six visuals are pretty quickly burnt up in one or two low level stars.
Now I'll go take my pills :uhoh:

[Hempy]

I don't know about NZ, but surely the same problem coudn't exist in Aus...according to a ASA manager "Pilots hate direct tracking....."

Yup, that's why they never ask for it ... :ugh:

[who_cares]

Brissy has it right.. Stars for visual conditons that position you on a 4 mile final

As for direct tracking, regularly here guys after leaving Brissy getting cleared to a 9 mile final to TSV on first contact with center, rarely hear the guys in NZ offer direct tracking to final

Cheers

[Bula]

The difference between NZ and Aus is their ability to control traffic and timing.. all utter B$%^&shi^T in NZ....

had to slow down the other day for an ATR, top of descent from 370, make you speed 25o on descents...... then cancel speed... then handing over to approach control speed 250... then 220.... then come right 15 degrees....

then min clean.. then turn onto final 10nm behind someone just touching down...... you have to be kidding me !!!!!!

Atleast in Oz it would be adjust time to cross IDUBU at 05 (most of the time while your still in the cruise) ...... done!

The ability of these people to talk to each other is crap. If you have a look at the radar centre they are completely on different sides of the room and dont talk.

BESIDES LIKE EVERYONE HAS SAID.. IF THERE ARE 4 AIRCRAFT, I WOULD BE REQUESTING DIRECT TRACKING DAILY!!.... a sign of poorly designed airspace.

[kmagyoyo]

My God things must have gotten really bad in NZ if the 'second best' Air Traffic Controllers in the World are being used as role models. :ugh: