Pilots jobs/ renewals or FI(R) course

[flyhighspeed300]

got my IR renewal coming up in a couple of months,
do I renewal the IR rating or do an FIC(R)?
plus will i get a job as an instructor?
only got enough money for the IR renewal or FIC(R) course!!!


had no real interviews from passing my IR last year. BUT got a couple of hours in the right hand seat of a king air though. non log-able time because do not have a B200 rating.

any ideas of what to do next?
think i have appiled to every airline now in the E.U and most of the airlines/business jets world wide as well.

I working on friends for mini VFR flight, so i don't pay the full price any ideas i am all out now.

really i am all out of ideas now
help!!!

[Fireboy]

A tough one!

I did the FIC and the IR revalidation, but I had to take out a loan for the FIC. I only instruct part-time, and now I'm seeing a decline in the number of new students starting a PPL = less work.

Make sure there is an FI job for you before paying 6-7k for the rating.

[pipertommy]

Same position last year. I did not renew the IR as zero jobs, i now instruct at weekends and love it! If you can do some research on possible FI jobs near you then go for it.

Travel if you can. I do a fifty mile trip each way and its worth it:ok:

You can still do some IFR work on an IMC to keep the skills up until things pick up:rolleyes:

[Kelly Hopper]

'Having the same problem at 7000 hours!
P1 on biz jets and ex airlines and still nothing jobwise for more than a year! Now what? Renew my licence at huge cost and still no jobs? Don't renew and no licence? What a fantastic career!

[justasmallfire]

Had similar dilema few month back figured better to let IR lapse (was up for renew on a/c this time round) did FIC not a lot of work out there but at least you can take friends up for flight experience and let them try controls and be legal.I know less people are taking PPL courses at moment but at least i can keep flying (even just a couple of hours a week)and my CV will look a bit better.Will keep IR skills polished by odd hour in sim here and there with renew when interviews pick up.

[tropicalfridge]

FTN this month, its front page story details the current surplus of CPL qualified Flight Instructors. Don't waste £7k on the rating at the moment, re-new your IR on the sim if you can. Surely if you renew on the aircraft, it shouldn't cost much more than £1k in any case (2hrs with instructor, 1.5hrs test)? Neither will get you a job at present, but £1k vs £7k is a no brainer for me and the IR renewal is supposed to be much less trouble than the initial.

[flyhighspeed300]

Thanks people.
It is a hard decision to make, because at the moment I cold call people selling thing. it’s a job!!!! Not something I enjoy!! It’s just will pay for either the IR renewal or the FI(R) course. That’s one of the reasons why I had very much looked at doing a FI course, because it will beat working in a cold call centre any day.
The only problem is there are no FI jobs where I am, and the airport, which I fly regularly from every month, has lots of flying schools and lots of flying instructors. No need for any new FI instructors at the moment.

Thanks for the input

Decisions Decisions, if i did do the IR renewal would do it in the air to get my MEP hours closer to 50hrs.

[TheBeak]

to get my MEP hours closer to 50hrs

Don't let that be a decider, it is irrelevant.

[geordiejet]

I wouldn't advise an FIC right now. I'm getting towards testing (wondering if there's any point - but too far gnoe to back out now). I was reading the Flight Instructor pages, and one guy said a flight school is receiving 20 CVs a week. Not sure which flying school it was, but shows how many unemployed FIs are out there right now - makes extremely depressing reading :\

I've also heard similar reports from around the country. Some schools seem to have recruitment sections on their websites looking for instructors, but a good few have had the same thing on for the past few years, so not sure how many schools are actually looking for instructors right now.

A lot of laid off airline pilots with FICs have returned to training and a few integrated students have also gotten a FIC whilst waiting for a jet job. This coupled with reduced student numbers means for extremely depressing reading for a newly qualified FI.

[flyhighspeed300]

yep, your very correct.
i have been emailing lots of flying schools to find out if they are taking on new FI (R) pilots. all of them so far have said they are not recuiting FI at the moment.
i even contacted cleveland flying who look like they are recuiting FI(R) pilots, but i spoke to the CFI and he said its a database on the internet. they are full at the moment unless any pilot leave. unlikely in the down turn.
the only good thing, is that people may look at doing courses lower than a JAA PPL that has just come about, where they can get a pilot licence in 15hours but only in the local area. good for instructors, because people maybe able to find the cost to do the course, instead of doing it the easilier and cheaper way of doing a JAA PPL in the states.

I will be renewing my IR rating in a simulator, because it will be quick, cheaper than flying the routes in the air. not sure if i will renew my MEP rating? because i will have to fly and thats costly?, but i do fly every month (SEP) to keep current.
this is why i am still looking at FI(R) could be cheaper in the long run, but thats only if i get a job!!!! and there are 4/5 schools on my aerodrome, full with instructors at the moment...

[Pace152]

Its really tough out there in FI land at the moment. The Flying school I used to instruct at has seemed to pick up recently with the amount of students, but guess what - most of them are FI students.

There's going to be more instructors than students out there soon :}

If you do get the FI rating odds are that if you're lucky you might get 3 or 4 hours a week out of it as a part time FI.

I would say do yourself a favour and be realistic, if you've got some contacts which are likely to help you get a job then fine but if you're just doing it in the hope that you'll get lucky then I dont think now is the time, the odds are not in your favour.

[MVE]

Try getting other work to pay your way and keep a day in the week and weekends free for some instructing, offer yourself at very short notice to help out and keep your face in the picture. Things will pick up......

[flyhighspeed300]

thanks for your reply.
have found two places now that do want flight instructors, (recuiting).
they are 1 1/2hr to 2 hours travel a way from where i live. the only one thing is its free work and only weekends due to other operations.

however i do have a job in the week, which just pays the bills and for keeping my ratings going.
i am now looking at doing a FI course. have my IR renewal, which i am planning on doing at the end of september, to keep current.


second question
what does any one think of me doing my FI(R) course in america, instead of england? I will be coming back to england to instruct tho.

thats the new question???

[philc1983]

Majorly bad idea!! If you do that make sure you can still teach the JAA/EASA PPL course on return to the uk. A lot of the US courses only teach you how to fly the lessons as opposed to here in the uk where you are taught HOW to teach. In all honesty though i wouldn't even consider an FI course unless there is a job waiting for you. As somebody has already touched upon, don't go gambling now the odds are not just against you, in your position, they are fixed in favour of the house.

If you are able to get a weekend job instructing whilst working mon-fri in the call centre that would be ace, keeping current (getting paid for it) and saving up cash to revalidate the rest of your licences.

Get your IR renewed and just do it in a sim if that's possible as its cheaper, unless you need to ME/IR in which case just go in for the test and wing it mate! Not as hard as the initial.

[flyhighspeed300]

Thanks for yhe reply about doing an JAA FI(R) course in america.

the IR renewal i am going to do in the sim, in england. i live next to an international airport where there of over 5 flying schools. quick an easy.

the reason for doing an FI in america is the cost, time and weather. bad points is standards. i did my ppl in america so i know the system over there.

did my cpl in the u.k as well

[jamestkirk]

Not read all the posts so i might be reflecting others.

Keep current with IR, just in case you get a call for an interview. One of the first questions they asked me was 'are you current'. Don't bother with the MEP. If you have mimimum hours on a MEP, whats the chances of you feeling confortable doing single pilots ops in crap weather.

The FI is a big outlay for little short term return. I did it for two years before getting RHS and it was gard to survive financially, even though it was a busy school.

This is a bit at a tangent but have you considered trying to get a job in ops or something in regional/biz jet operations, where they may be a chance of getting to know the chief pilot etc.

Best of luck anyway.

[tropicalfridge]

I would be very careful about doing the FI course abroad. You are very lucky to have found a place still recruiting, will this still be the case by the end of your course? I doubt it! And with all the big schools in overdrive churning out new FIs every 6 weeks (I question the morality of this), the situation is worsening rapidly. Plus, if a few positions open, UK schools will want UK trained FIs, JAR courses from abroad will go to the bottom of the very very long list. Good luck with it all.

[flyhighspeed300]

another question,
if i did do a JAA FI(R) course in america, i have been given the green light that they will allow me to do 100-200 hours of instructor time after completing the course. this is all unpaid work, plus i will have to pay to live out there for two months/ three months to get 100/200 hours of instructor time. but the hours would put me in better option than just gettings a uk FI rating without any experince nor a job or ganing from the rating in england!!!

would give me more hours and the hours will be JAA PPL training time!!!

good idea/ ace idea or very bad idea?

any comments are welcome, due to it will cost me to live in america for the 2/3 months

[SunShine23]

I did my FIC last year, today I work in a FTO.
I do not regret it! you have a lot of advantages:
you fly, maintain skills, and can take the IRI CRI course after some hours (FTO can help you), you can use FNPT when you need (very usefull for any selection!).
In my opinion, a pilot is like a bird. If you do not have any interview, try to fly by others ways: banner, gliders towing, Fi, aerial work...
FI is expensive unfortunately, but when you start flying after, you make profitable in short time.

[GgW]

this is all unpaid work :ugh::ugh::ugh:

If they pay for your FI rating and you have to work for them for free for x-amount of hours it makes sense and sounds like a good deal.

But if its you that pays for the rating and then have to work for free, its a bad idea! Why, because you will f@@k it up for the other instructors.

A FI rating with 200 hours of instructing might improve your chances to get a FI job in the UK, it will be to your advantage if you can get the restriction removed while you are in the states. That means nobody at a UK flying club needs to ''babysit'' you.
You can work unsupervised.

[flyhighspeed300]

yer, if i do the JAA FI(R) rating in America i will have to pay for the training cost to get the rating.
plus it will cost me to live and rent for 2/3 months afterwards to get 200hrs. which seem the best way of coming back to get a instructors job in the u.k. i know of 2 places still taking on flying instructors, but it is unpaid work.
it is hours of flying after all!!

Note: i will be renewaling my IR rating in the u.k in the simulator to keep the cost down. but i will not be doing the renewal of the mep rating due to the extra cost. however i could do the renewal the mep rating in the states if i go back out there when or if i do an instructor rating?

i have low hours flying hours, no avaition job. tried in other area and found nothing, so i work in a cold calling centre!!!!! FUN!!
it paids the pill at the moment!!

help!!!

[Token Bird]

First it was self-sponsored type-ratings, then came paying for your rating and for 'airline experience' (in other words working for free). Now you're telling us that a company in the US expects you to instruct for free so you can get 'instructing experience'.

Taking the piss surely?

The simple fact is, if there are no instructor jobs out there, then having 200 hours of instructing experience will not be of any help anyway, and you'll be even more in debt.

If things start to pick up then you can do an instructor rating, but I wouldn't rush to do one now. If you are determined to renew your IR, do it on the sim, but really a current IR is not a necessity anyway.

[Pace152]

flyhighspeed300,

If I get what you're saying right then you're thinking of going out to the states to get your JAA FI(r) rating and then work out in the states for 100 - 200 hours?

If I've got that wrong then ignore the following :}

If I got it right then I think there's 2 problems here:

1. I might be wrong about this but its worth you're checking - I think to instruct in the states you also need an FAA CPL and Flight Instructor Rating as well as your JAA one.

2. Unless you hold an American passport there is no visa that would cover you to do the FI course and then work in the States (whether paid or unpaid). The only visa that kind of covers this is if you go from zero to FI then you can work in the states for 1 month for every 3 months you were training, I believe upto a maximum of 3 months work.

Just something for you to check out before you make your decision to do it in the states or not. :ok: