You saved my life, Skydive Nagambie Caravan crash

[D-J]

For those who didn't get to see this on Ch9 tonight...

Unbelievable footage & brilliant piloting

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2001/AAIR/pdf/aair200101903_001.pdf

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[Number34]

Amazing! Thank you for posting the video

[Pilotette]

Unbelievable...thanks for posting it!

[Lockers]

Great story. Coundn't think of a more appropriate person to now be flying for the RFDS. Bloody well done mate:D
Lockers

[Lasiorhinus]

The "Baz Strap" is a darned important bit of skydiving aeroplanes, that's for sure, and I won't fly a skydiving plane without a parachute, ever. The one day I decide I'll be ok, I'm sure will be the one day I need one.

[aldee]

That video should be mandatory viewing for the hour builders that some of the skydive operators are " helping out ".

lifes to short to work for nothing let alone die for.

[that guy]

i was gobsmacked by that footage!! amazing that he made it, absolute legend! on ya! :D


TG

[NNB]

outside flying AG, jump flying is potentially the most lethal form of flying that most of us get access to. Do Not take It Lightly....!!!!!!!
easy hours no, a verticle learning curve YES
be safe folks
Owen, you still owe me lunch...!!!!!
NNB

[aseanaero]

That accident is a jump pilots worst nightmare and he did a great job.

With skydivers packed in the back and then getting up and stacking up for an exit it's pretty easy to catch a cable or pin but the guys and gals are very aware of that and it never happened to me in 6 yrs.

When I was flying skydivers I bought my own thin-back parachute and had it repacked and inspected at the required intervals at my own cost as sometimes a chute wasn't available for the pilot (this was 15 yrs ago)

What I don't understand is why jump planes don't have a front door jetison system like some aerobatic aircraft (a pull handle with wires that pulls the pin out of the door hinges) which immediately allows the pilot to roll out of the cockpit in an emergency

The fact he made it to the rear door with the aircraft in that attitude is amazing.

[hershey_86]

isnt it "als caravans" who fly at the gambie? i heard they were some of the best drop pilots ever.

[Pindan warrior]

:ok This guy did a great job and its pleasing to note that his accident has lead to improved safety for other skydivers.

[Keg]

I did some meat bomb flying in '92 in SA. Always wore a parachute. Would never have even thought not to! I certainly wouldn't have done any flight with parachutists on board without it. I couldn't believe it when he indicated that it wasn't a compulsory thing for him.

[aseanaero]

I couldn't believe it when he indicated that it wasn't a compulsory thing for him.

I don't know about now but in the early 90's it wasn't compulsary for jump pilots to wear chutes and they weren't always available for pilot use.

I bought a new surplus RAAF thinback with a 28' lopo canopy from Parachutes Oz for A$850 at that time , also wore it doing aerobatics

[j3pipercub]

Al's pilots some of the best, nah, we all just ended up with harder heads from all the in flight punching...most of us could do a van 100hrly in our sleep though.

To any current Al's caravan drivers, I was wondering, is Midstrength the hangar cat still at Toogoolawah?

j3

[mingalababya]

That video is very inspirational stuff! :ok:

What I don't understand is why jump planes don't have a front door jetison system like some aerobatic aircraft (a pull handle with wires that pulls the pin out of the door hinges) which immediately allows the pilot to roll out of the cockpit in an emergency

The PAC 750 XL they now use at Nagambie does have a front door emergency exit for the pilot on either side of the aircraft. From what I've seen of it, it's an awesome jump plane (climbs to FL 140 at over 1200 ft/min with a full load).

[aseanaero]

The PAC 750 XL they now use at Nagambie does have a front door emergency exit for the pilot on either side of the aircraft

Progress :ok:

[framer]

As far as his pilots go, if you last his 'training regime' (http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif those who have done it will know what I mean!) you will end up one of the best.
Ha Ha that is one of the funniest things I've heard!! if you last his training you will be out of pocket and full of incorrect assumptions about how to fly an aeroplane.
I did maybe 900hrs in his aircraft and it wasn't until I went onto different operators that I saw what a proffesional attitude from an employer was like.
one of the best LMAO ...watch out top gun :)

[lk978]

I agree with Owen :D

[Long John Silver]

What I don't understand is why jump planes don't have a front door jetison system

I heard a story from one of the original GA8 airvan test pilots that he had to jump out of one whilst doing CofG testing. Apparently because of the way it was spinning he jumped out the door and ended up sliding forward along the body and up over the engine cowling, through the prop arc and ended up on his back hurtling towards the ground with an airvan directly overhead! Thankfully he shut the engine down before exiting otherwise the prop would have chopped him up.

Magnified bar story? maybe. Makes you think twice about jumping out of an out-of-control airplane though.

[Freewheel]

It's not just a concern for FW -

https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-52179.html

[b_sta]

Magnified bar story? maybe. Makes you think twice about jumping out of an out-of-control airplane though.

Better that than ride it all the way into the ground though.

[VH-XXX]

Properly configured Jump planes DO have a door jettison system.

It is essentially just a couple of removable door pins on a pulley system, quite simple really. Not sure if such a system would be practical on a Caravan as they are pretty hefty hinges.


Long John, you can ask pilot of said Airvan how he jumped out, he's on here and probably reading...

[Brian Abraham]

Re jump plots wearing chutes

Australian Parachute Regulation 5.1.14. A serviceable parachute and training in its use is to be made available to pilots of parachuting aircraft.

Don't know when this was introduced. Certainly not the practice to wear chutes when I was involved in the scene long, long ago.

[Mr. Hat]

Thats tops

[Golf_Seirra]

10/10 to the spotter....got the aircraft right next to the runway....almost dead centre. Makes me wish I had worn a rig when I did my 600 odd hour meatbomb stint...

There have been a couple of accidents where the first guys get out and the rest have been trapped in the back due to the high G loads. Mainly front exit jumpships like the C210/182...and normally in engine failures after take-off which become full blown stalls....

I guess having the tail off changes your attitude to " I'll stay / go down with the ship rather..."

[AussieNick]

I guess having the tail off changes your attitude to " I'll stay / go down with the ship rather..."

yeah losing that peice of vital airframe would do that too ya

[VH-XXX]

At least with the tail gone he didn't have to worry about hitting it given that it wasn't there. That would be my fear jumping out in a near vertical spiral dive - hitting the tail. Imagine if it had hit the buildings, ouch! It have been one hell of a bang, or atleast a louder bang that what there already was.

[Spinnerhead]

Interestingly, old mate "Al", despite the fact the pilots private parachute saved his life in Al's aircraft, still refused to provide parachutes for his pilots. This is taking "tight as a fishs bum" and desregard for life to another level.

[Chimbu chuckles]

When I spent a short period launching lawn darts in the early 80s I was given a slimpak and shown how to inspect it for serviceability and use it...I had many jumps under my belt but not using modern equipment, just those awful para commander round canopies.

It never occurred to me that wearing a parachute on lawn dart ops was optional.:rolleyes:

I was also made VERY aware that if I actually used it for anything short of a lawn dart wrapped around the tail I would be beat to a messy pulp upon landing:ok:

Well done that man:ok:

[aseanaero]

I was also made VERY aware that if I actually used it for anything short of a lawn dart wrapped around the tail I would be beat to a messy pulp upon landinghttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


Must be a standard jump pilot briefing , I got that one also :)

Lawn Darts , hadn't heard that one before

Other nicknames for Skydivers : meat missiles , meat bombs , sky-trash , any others ?

[morno]

Chimbu,
In my disposable passenger days, I wore the round shute as well, and like you was told that should I ever need to use it, jump out, don't free fall, just pull the thing straight away. Then if I was lucky, I'd come away from the landing with maybe a broken leg.

After watching that thing on Barry, I thank my lucky stars all the drops I did were successful!

morno

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Nicknames for Skydivers : Lawn Darts, Meat Missiles, Meat Bombs , Sky-trash, any others ?

Loopies!

Dr :8

[beaver_rotate]

How's the "MC home made RNAV's" going these MCdays?? Anyone know? Is it true he issues you with MC 5 bars? Being airline pilots and all?? :}:}:}:}:}

[j3pipercub]

Thanks JetX, good cat is Midi, loved having a go at all thr brown snakes around the hangar :)

As far as the RNAVs, I know a guy who still has handwritten copies of said approaches from the man himself

J3

[xxgoldxx]

Nicknames for Skydivers : Lawn Darts, Meat Missiles, Meat Bombs , Sky-trash, any others ?
Loopies!

Dr http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif

I've got a fair collection for doctors .. and a few extra's for bonza drivers as well.. but this topic is hardly the place...

[Spodman]

Magnified bar story? maybe. Makes you think twice about jumping out of an out-of-control airplane though.When I heard the (same) story Dave has a think before he pops the chute and has a look around for the aeroplane. It was directly above him, and looked like a ceiling fan. Cue frantic Wiley Coyote arm flapping to get out from under... I did hear it in a bar too, but I was more-or-less sober and believed every word.
May be a silly question, but if the tail was missing, why was he trying to open the roller door? Couldn't he just jump straight out the back? Guess you haven't seen the video then, it was just the stab gone.

What I wonder is who was holding the camera when he was the only person on board the aircraft and struggling with the door? He must have been using the exact same camera as the jumper who was already outside the aircraft because it has exactly the same fuzzy focus, wobbling, and dubious color control...

Despite all that, well done pilot guy.

[hershey_86]

seems to me some of the video was filmed in a cessna.

[RadioSaigon]

seems to me that all of the internal shots were in a Cessna -206, no less and on the ZK- register. Have a good look at those panel shots!

CAA-NZ records her as a TU206-F, currently registered to Auckland Skydivers Inc.

There's a couple of shots there (of the pilot concerned) that I'd be pretty confident are not in a 206... trim-wheel on the roof, panel-layout reminiscent of a Pilatus Turbo Porter or similar. He looks a bit younger in those shots too, so possibly footage he provided himself?

[aseanaero]

when I came in on Finals at 300FT/80KTS and took my hands off the control column

So what's the deal with the 'Jedi' approach ?

Was it a demonstration to show the Caravan could land 'no hands' or you had to do every landing like that ?

Must be interesting in a cross wind ...

[j3pipercub]

Jedi Approach, awesome! Use the force, or was it that he forced you to do it his way?

A power game and an attempt to teach us all how to fly, including not turning the transponder to standby when changing code.

Ah well it was his trainset and you only had to do that when he was on board, the rest of the time you could fly the aeroplane

J3

[Dave Cogan]

You are correct in your comment.
The stunt aircraft used for the shots of the pilot wrestling the controls was zk-CDRW, a Cessna 206.

All in the skills of the director and cameraman.

I was flying the aircraft.

[fencehopper]

I was working at Shute when Big Al called in to get some fuel after going to Nags to get pick up the remains. He had his other 'van in Ayre. He came up to me with a shoebox that had one stb nav light and strobe, one oil pick up tube and bit of smashed engine case with the engine data plate attached and the charred and buckled stainless steel VH identification plate that was fastened to the door frame. He also had one wheel and tyre. That was all that was left of it. The cops had the remains of the tail.
I've seen some interesting jumper /aircraft incidents in 30 years of jumping but that one really pulled a lot of jump pilots and jumpers up. Sales of pilot rigs went up right around the world and op regs were rewritten to make them mandatory when that vid hit the scene.
Big Al has now left Toogs, his caravans have been replaced with Macca's brand new yellow one, called 'Homer'.
FH

[multi_engined]

Well done to barry what a great story against the odds, a great symbol of the true aussie spirit.

I guess we all hear of the stories and dangers of the jobs, I flew a drop plane for six months and always wore a chute but never truly though of the consequences like that.

In the basic training I was given we were operating a C182 up to FL120, with one jumpmaster with one tandem and if that if he ever was caught around the tail he would cut himself free with a leg knife, however if the aircraft was to lose control I was to exit it.

[Jack Ranga]

Fencehopper,

I heard on the grapevine 2 weekends ago that Macca had bought his own van, wasn't surprised about that. Wasn't the 'arrangement' that big Al owned anything on the hangar side of the runway and Macca the other side? If so, would make for an interesting atmosphere if big Al's hanging around?

[fencehopper]

Not sure about what the 'arrangements' were between them.
Al wrote a very gracious open letter to all jumpers thanking them for all the support for his 'vans over the years but he was pulling all his support like load organisers and other motivators from the DZ. everyone was wondering what was happening. Then 'homer' just hit the country unannounced. Macca must have been bursting at the seams at NSPC's 50th. wondered why he had a dopey grin on his face all week. I'll ask around on SS and see what he is doing.
I was refuelling MNV, now owned by Bowie, during the 50th and there are heaps of loose rivits on the top of the wing. built a bit light i think.
I always preferred the twin otters personally.
FH

[Biggles78]

I flew a Cherokee 6 in NZ early 80s and NEVER flew jumpers without wearing a rig. I believe it was compulsary and jump ops required a CPL. Unfortuantely it was a 22' round and I was told I would probaly break both legs in landing (I needed to lose a few kilos). A 24' would have been more appropriate. I had estimated I would need 5,500' to get out if anything when wrong. Was also told NO freefall, just a Hop & Pop.

In 1987, Pakenham Victoria, (I couldn't believe the number of flies that place had) early January, a 206 at 4,500' lost the elevator when a canopy deployed a tad early. The pilot got out and was timed under canopy by someone on the ground. It was estimated he got out and opened at about 400'!!! (He was given a First Jump Certificate and promtly grounded for opening too low). :=

The rig I was given to wear had no chest strap so if I had to egress headfirst then I would have fallen straight out of the bloody thing. Did lots of self briefing to get around that. (This rig was NOT provided by the same operation that was operating the 206). I flew the 205 from that location and almost wheelbarrowed my first landing when I ran out of elevator authority. :uhoh: Not a particularly nice surprise. :sad:

Flying jumpers was fun and I can't wait to get back to it again sometime. :ooh:

[aseanaero]

When I started flying jumpers the pilots weren't supplied a rig so I went out and bought a new surplus unit from Parachutes Australia myself at about 50% off retail (I was also flying aerobatics at the time). A few years later the club bought rigs for the pilots.

I wasn't comfortable flying jumpers without my slimback

[fencehopper]

A lot of pilots who had no need to scrape up their hours tend to scoff at jump ops. A jump pilot will learn many skills and gain experience at a much higher hour to hour rate than those who find themselves behind a auto pilot. it used to be get whoever you could to fly you (and the aircraft) but now it has been turned around and is a very professional game. Thank god!!

[fencehopper]

Seems Al is over at Redcliffe reworking the contracts of his pilots to pay 6 grand for their endorsments so they can keep working for him.
so the buzz goes amongst the meat missiles.

[Jack Ranga]

Despite Al 'being Al' you learn how to fly a turbine and you'll be one of the better jump pilots if you get through his 'training'

6 grand doesn't sound too bad if it includes his icus?

I laugh at the slagging jump piloting gets, if you do it properly and learn the lessons that come with it, it's great experience.

I know of some employers who count it as excellent experience not just a way of building hours :ok: