You Get What You Pay For

[GRIZZLER]

This morning at STN a thomsonfly 737 landed at 00.34...20 mins later it is still half way up A10 with nobody to see it in...it stood there with its engines running until somebody from swissport turned up.....no jetbridge...
the steps got there at 00.56.....the offload left the plane at 01.40....thats one hour and six mins after plane landed.......servisair had to have the last bag in the terminal forty mins after touchdown....or it was a memo on the wall.

The first choice A320 landed at 01.01...again no jetbridge...it got 1 set of steps on the front door at 01.11...the belt for the offload turned up at 01.26....the offload left the plane at 02.00....again servisair would have had the bags i the terminal within 40 mins from touch down..........why on earth did thomsonfly and firstchoice go to swissport.........cheep is not always the best.....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

[PRLB]

Just ask monarch at BHX the same thing happens there with swissport..

[stanstedsteve]

Why are swissport having these problems ???, it was never like that when I worked for them !!

[RollNow!]

ZB at BHX. Its almost a common story now for swissport. A ZB flight landed ushered itself onto stand, waiting 20 mins for one set of steps and another 40 yes four zero for a Pax svs person to come and open a door to walk the pax in. 60 mins after arrival for 2 memebers of staff two chocs and some steps.

So yes you get what you pay for indeed :}

[JB007]

As a Thomson Airways pilot, I've never experienced this at LGW with Swissport...

[RollNow!]

JB your not the first person to say that about swissport. Apparently their very good in london and at MAN. The smaller bases however, well they dont seem to be cutting it. I know they arent at BHX. Monarch are almost making money out of swissport at the moment with all the penalty charges they incur from clauses in the contract.

[plans123]

If thats the case, maybe the management at those locations isn't up to scratch. Pay peanuts - get monkies. Its the same in all walks of life. Thing is, in the current climate, I can bet you wouldn't have too much trouble finding better replacements either.

[RollNow!]

Agreed its all about training and staffing levels. Also the quality of the company you work for. Swissport might be a huge company but at these smaller bases there not pulling their weight. Down to management again i guess.

Guys on escorted passes being trained as leading hands and still not enough of them. I believe swissport BHX (dont know about STN?) have had several re-shuffles with no positive effect. Sounds like Labour at the moment!

[GRIZZLER]

I think what the trouble at STN with swissport is RYANAIR takes priority....(if you can call it that)...every thing else comes second.......the ryanairs now only carry a couple of dollys worth of bags as it cost to much to take luggage with you....thomson and first choice on the other hand come in full up.....its a bit of a shock to the swissport/ryanair baggage boys when they open the hold doors and find loads of bags.......i bet they have to go back for a lay down .........then again watching the ryanairs come back at nights like the red arrows,they also have no one to meet and greet them......they stand there flashing and waving at anybody they see....pleading for chocks and steps.......AGAIN, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Thomsonfly and Firstchoice get back to servisair before its to late.

THE
A TEAM

[ReadyToGo]

In defence of the handling agents, sometimes these things happen, and things land late/early and with the best will in the world sometimes you will have unforeseen flights, for a small crew, especially on late shifts

But this is where the problems are. In the "good old days" when you got hit hard with several flights landing at once, you just spread your men out and did what you could to AT LEAST get the passengers off. Everyone could operate the stairs, and put the power on, so 6 men could "greet" all the flights, with at least 1 set of stairs before returning to continue/begin offloads.

However, today the BIGGEST problem is purely down to training. In my days on the ramp, it was something I highlighted over and over again, and I was always ignored. Everyone out on that ramp should be trained to drive/operate as much of the equipment as possible from the very day they start. Training should be ongoing.
I used to go absolutely mental when I was leading a crew, where of 4 lads only 1 could operate stairs, or only one could tow a GPU (but not put it on the aircraft). It was so inflexible it was ridiculous, and if you did get hit with several a/c coming in at once, you did get times when you couldn't get steps on because you didnt have enough TRAINED staff. Instead of 5 lads who could meet the inbounds, and get the stairs on, you effectively had 1 lad who could do it, and delays mount up.

This is probably what happened in the original post. Especially at that time in the night, probably because most of the evening shift had played to the whistle and clocked off bang on finishing time, because the HA were unwilling to make it worth their while to stay for the late inbounds.

"Ramp trainer" at some stations must be the cushiest job ever.

RTG!

[groundhogbhx]

When I left Swissport LGW and MAN were the golden boys and everything was done to make them look as good as possible and get the best contracts they could, the other bases just had to hope for nationwide contracts or stupidly low quotes to get work, the commercial guys didn't seem to care to much about them. Also the TOM/FCA carve up after the carriers combined seems to have been worked out so that the stations were split up between swissport (who mainly handled FCA) and Servisair (who mainly handled TOM), BHX lost FCA which had major repercussions for the base and STN gained TOM.

STN used to be split into 2 companies so it is possible that there is no cross over between the operations, FR/everyone else. Believe this is still the same so could explain why the FR's seemed to be less inconvenienced. There seems to be a lot of discontent at Swissport at the moment with the company going back on the pay deal so it would be quite concieveable that the staff are showing the company how they feel, leaving on time and not covering overtime shifts.

Maybe somebody will take the bull by the horns and get things sorted, but with the current management I can't really see things getting better any time soon. More chance of Gordie winning big time in the Euro election results tomorrow night:(

[Stopend]

Maybe somebody will take the bull by the horns and get things sorted, but with the current management I can't really see things getting better any time soon.

The Swissport management, at BHX, seems to have been repeatedly
massacred over the last 2 years. I think you will find relatively little management on the ramp and a few people running around like mad! trying to get the job done. Constant management changes over the past two or three years may not have helped at all. Some investment and stability may help, but probably not, because as far as the airlines are concerned the price is right!! :ugh:

[ReadyToGo]

Actually FMCtempest, I've been out of the industry for about 18months, and while I agree with the majority of what you say, I think things like airstairs, and ground power units are two things that ALL ramp agents ought to be trained on as early as possible. Its simply a very basic thing, that if everybody can do, just makes the job so much easier.
Obviously you dont NEED an entire crew trained on things like pushback driving, or de-icing.

Obviously not speaking about your particular training scheme and methods, but in my last year on the ramp, it just seemed all too often that seasonal staff were being given the bare minimum training, and that harms the flexibility, which late at night, with a minimum night shift is going to lead to situations like the original poster described.

I also think you hit the nail on the head by mentioning the reduction in qualified trainers. Increasing a trainers workload isnt going to help.

Finally, you are damn right about there being worse jobs. I loved it out there, and whinging and whining was all part of the fun. But its amazing how many seasonal staff come back, and how many fulltime staff stay on!

RTG!

[42psi]

I used to go absolutely mental when I was leading a crew, where of 4 lads only 1 could operate stairs, or only one could tow a GPU (but not put it on the aircraft). It was so inflexible it was ridiculous, and if you did get hit with several a/c coming in at once, you did get times when you couldn't get steps on because you didnt have enough TRAINED staff. Instead of 5 lads who could meet the inbounds, and get the stairs on, you effectively had 1 lad who could do it, and delays mount up.





Ah yes .. heard one handling agent refer to them as the "telly watchers"

The experienced peeps would tell them to stay in the rest room watching the telly as they felt it only slowed them down or made things downright dangerous to have them on their teams....

[groundhogbhx]

Stopend, it wasn't just the local management that I was referring to. They are just a product of the system they work in, I feel things will only improve when there is change from the top. In the days of Groundstar the company did try to be the best, it didn't always work but they did try and more often than not got there. The rot started with the team that took the company into Swissport. Constant changes in upper management, especially HR, and inserting a new level meant people were getting to grips with what had happened before, learning the lie of the land and working on how to change things to their way of working rather than dealing with what was happening there and then. There would also seem to have been far too much chronyism in the structure, you just have to look how many have followed a former director to see that.

Until the company is led by someone who understands the industry (the current CEO was parachuted in from Amey Roadstone!!!!) and has the passion to make the company succeed I see little hope for them. That is a great disservice to members of staff who believed in the company enough to leave secure jobs with other HA's to try and make a difference, most now hanging on in the hope of a descent redundancy package.:(

[0523 cov man]

at bhx staff only get pay at £5.80 ph you only get what you pay
for any good staff move on to aviance

[smudgethecat]

Actually the airlines are to a point reaping as they have sown they are constantly looking at the bottoml line playing one company off against another to get a rock bottom price which leads to the handling companies being forced to cut their costs to the bone, end result crap service

[TOWTEAMBASE]

aaah yes, the good ol "if in doubt, blame the training", sounds to be universal. Where are the "tutors" and "mentors" when they are needed :ugh:

[SAS MD80]

I was a ground crew trainer for an airline manily focusing on front line passenger services staff for numerous bases in the UK before being made redundant. This included training for 3rd party airlines that the company handled. I then joined a handling agent and was shocked at the level of training that was delivered. It was the bare bones needed to satisfy the authorities and not a lot else. Alarm bells ring for me when any company practically hands the trainees answers to tests on serious mandatory subjects in a plate. I would like to think this is not the norn. Unfortunaltly the lack of training transpires itself on the shop floor and the service delivery which doesnt help with a companies reputation.

Good quality training works, it provides happy motivated and knowledgeable staff with tools and information available and a service level to be proud of. A company can only benefit from this. Training costs should be measured against the long term savings in lower staff turn over, and less costly errors, if only managers can see this. I was lucky the airline I worked for was very pro training and it paid off. I was inundated with applications from shop floor staff when I advertised for mentors to help with the after classroom online coaching.

I started my career many years ago with a handling agent and have found myself back with one. Im very much of the mind that as a handling agent looking after numerous carriers there is a variety to the job that should be enjoyed and staff given the right tools and information to deliver a service. I hate hearing this phrase "i dont know i dont work for the airline". Fair enough maybe we dont work for the airline, but we are employed to represent them in the absence of their own staff. Staffing levels aside, why shouldnt we up our game and provide a service that rivals that of an airline? Perhaps that way the reputation of a handling agent will be that of a good service provider.

[groundhogbhx]

0523 covman, that would be for the temps of course. Swissport do employ some very good experienced ramp staff who do get paid more than that, unfortunately not enough of them are left after the culls to get the job done the way it should be:ok:

[TOWTEAMBASE]

point taken SAS, been out of the game for a while, would be good to get back in. im sure the "tools" have improved vastly :ok::ok:

[SAS MD80]

Unfortunatly the role I have with the present handling agent is not in training, im front line again. The tools are still lacking, although im trying a one man battle to up the game and improve things in my section, not for me for us all.

[spirit of the age]

Dearest Grizzler, when a company like swissport has this many contracts(unlike other companies that operate at STN) there are bound to be issues with manning levels.Clearly servisair dont have the contracts leaving them with the reqiurement of making another 5 redundancies. One wonders how deep the cuts can go.Dont look to deeply into the mirror you may not like what you see.Apparently your company is now considering a 6 and 3 shift pattern to gain some flexibility

[GRIZZLER]

When a company like swissport has this many contracts...........Unlike some people, i can remember when servisair had ALL the contracts at stansted....if it landed, it was servisairs.....i hope servisair has learnt its lesson doing things on the cheap...ie RYANAIR .....

as for shift changes they are always looking to rob peter to pay paul........ i think they are very flexible now...men come in at 0300.....or stay on after midnight........at times the late shift just about bump into the early shift coming in.....how flexible can you get.....apart from living in the carpark.......itsgetting to the situation now there are more hours to cover then there are men to do it.....i think it might need more than a 6 and 3 shift.....maybe one man to come in every hour on the hour that should do it.

[chrystall]

That figure of 5.80 is a disgrace - my 16 yr old son earns 5.72 and hour in tesco's and no unsociable hours//inside warm and comfy. full time staff deserve a better deal given what they have to put up with!!:rolleyes:

[FrankLeeSpeakin]

When I worked for a GHA about 12 years ago I think I was on about £3 an hour. There are a combination of factors that "conspire" to muck up a turnaround but I don't need to tell you lot that do I.
My company used cheap equipment, crappy uniforms, delapidated vehicles, poorly maintained radios.....
Add to this a really pisspoor airport owner with overcrowded and understaffed and inadequate numbers of security posts (there was no separate staff post so we had to excuse ourselves to the front of passenger queues) and what you get is..well crappyness multiplied.
Also while I was there the station head called us all into a meeting and declared we were all going to be doing the pushbacks as well - previously done by dedicated airline crews.
His parting words were "If you don't want to do it, you don't have to" - ie, we can always get another monkey to replace you, and curiously no mention of quid-pro-quo pay adjustment for our new extra "voluntary" duties.
T'was ever thus and I am well out of it now.

[FrankLeeSpeakin]

PS there is a thread for pilots to compare pay.
What a good idea it would be if dispatchers could do the same here so we can compare the lot of workers at the likes of Servisair, Menzies, Aviance etc etc

[ReadyToGo]

I had to smile at Grizzlers comment about "living in the car park". In the days when I was a rampie, there were times when I knew people who did just that on occasions. Finish an early, nip out for a bite to eat, then put their down in his car for an hour or so, then straight on the ramp again for a few hours. Or finish at 2am, sleep in our minibus, and wake up at 5 to cover the first wave of departures, then go home at 8am.

I did it myself on occasions to cover someone on another crew. But by the time I left, attitudes and comradship at the company were so low, you were lucky if any of the non-seasonal staff were prepared to stay more than 20mins. In fact, there was actually animosity between crews at times.

One of the final straws in my "career" was being left on my own, on a 738 turnaround, because the crew I had finished at 1800. Literally walked off the job... why? Because they couldn't guarantee they'd get paid for the extra 25mins to get the flight out.

Sad, but all too common


RTG!