Strategic Aviation to buy Ozjet

[Australianguy]

I have it from a good source that Strategic Aviation is going to buy what is left of Oz Jet http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif. According to an insider, strategic is only taking on OZ Jet to get an AOC. Why? because despite CASA stating that "an AOC can not be bought", it is quite clear it can.

While this is good news for the Oz Jet guys and girls, one has to wonder what the hell are the managers at Strategic thinking? Even if they buy the company, getting an AOC transfered with a completly new management structure approved is not a task that can be done in a matter of a few months. If they are thinking of putting the A330 and 320 on the Oz Jet AOC then it could take up to 12 - 18 months to get it all approved by CASA.

[grrowler]

Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. They were "going to buy" SAW as well, just that the price they offered was not gonna cover the administrators fees, let alone any of the employee's entitlements, etc, so not accepted (rumour).

As mentioned elsewhere, it would most likely be cheaper and certainly result in a much "cleaner" AOC, to start from scratch with the Airbus manuals.

[jack red]

i want some of that **** the "good source" and "insider" are smoking :suspect:

[Australianguy]

Well you will have to talk to the friendly folks at CASA then. Word there is that application has been made to CASA for Strategic to take over Ozjet.

[betaman]

Their website is pretty flash but I think they may have to reword some of their press releases.:}

Like this little gem.
The airline will launch with an Airbus A330-300, which Mr James said was one of the safest aircraft in
aviation history. The Airbus will have the flexibility of being able to be configured with business, premium
economy and economy seats and will support Strategic Airlines’ access to a range of planes to meet
customers’ needs.:hmm: Pretty bold statement.

[HotDog]

safest aircraft in
aviation history.
That is your BOLD, I presume?
A very BOLD statement to make about an extremely safe aircraft whose unfortunate accident of late, that has so far not even been located; let alone any factual reason yet discovered for the tragedy.

[FGD135]

safest aircraft in
aviation history.
Even if that recent accident was later found to be a fault of the aircraft, it would still be "one of the safest aircraft in aviation history".

Learn to read and comprehend, betaman

[3 Holer]

Getting back to the original topic. Sorry to tell you Australianguy(and your mates, good source and insider) but you cannot buy an Australian AOC.

If you could, then Heavylift would have had an AOC now. (Ozjet's!)

Now I am not saying Strategic are not interested in buying Ozjet, that may well be. However, if they are buying Ozjet because they think they can avoid the CASA paperwork and bureaucracy of obtaining an Australian AOC, then they are going to be disappointed. Just ask Nick.

Word there is that application has been made to CASA for Strategic to take over Ozjet.

Strategic does not have to apply to CASA to takeover Ozjet. As someone said before, what is that **** "good source" and "insider" are smoking!;)

[Timber]

Strategic would need to buy OzJet and do a deal with the creditors of OzJet through the administrator. Then they could restart the company with one (or more) B737-200's, probably easiest would be ex OzJet aircraft. Next add a new type to the AOC; A320? It would be a lot simpler and quicker than starting from scratch. CASA could be helpfull if the staff of OzJet would be retained. OzJet management and Strategic management are somewhat familiar with each other already?

[airtags]

agree
the Act is clear - and esp., given others have (admirably) failed at trying to get such a pitch up;

"an AOC is not like a taxi plate or a broadcasting licence - nor should it be."

AT

[SelCal Check OK]

According to an insider, strategic is only taking on OZ Jet to get an AOC. Why? because despite CASA stating that "an AOC can not be bought", it is quite clear it can.


Don't see that it is up to CASA to second guess the reason why someone decides to buy an aviation company.

Leave that to the PPRuNe'rs. :ok:

[Australianguy]

Of course you can buy an AOC; an example would be the sale of Macair. Should strategic buy the AOC of Ozjet, all that will be required is the approval of the new management structure. From there one would assume that Strategic would apply to have the A330 and 320 added to the AOC. And rumour has it that Strategic has applied to CASA for the approval of a new management structure for Ozjet. Good luck:bored:

[the wizard of auz]

you cannot buy an AOC...... but the AOC belongs to a company, and you can buy an existing company with an AOC and retain the AOC with a few approved changes in the management structure. pretty simple really.

[TARTAN]

No surprises there. Strategic announced last month they
were planning to buy a regional carrier. Also, it is no surprise
that Strategic is interested in Ozjet since there is a management
link between the two. Good luck to them!

[Torres]

It would require a Creditor's Deed of Arrangement for Strategic to buy the shares in the OzJet operating company (which holds the AOC). As they will not be interested in assuming liability for OzJet's debts, I imagine a number of creditors, including staff, will be seeking some form of satisfaction before agreeing to the scheme.

Until full details are provided to the creditors for their approval, this thread (and the rumours herein) are a total non event.

The transaction has nothing to do with CASA and it would be totally inappropriate for CASA to accept or consider any "approval of a new management structure for Ozjet" application from Strategic and, as OzJet is controlled by the Administrator, he can not be apply to CASA without Creditors approval.

"Of course you can buy an AOC; an example would be the sale of Macair."

You can not "buy" an AOC. The legal entity "Macair" did not change; only the shares changed ownership.

[Peter Brady]

Torres.....at long last someone talking some sense. Process exactly as you have described and by no means a foregone conclusion with expressions of interest to the Administrator also coming from at least two other bidders thought to be Alliance & Skywest, both of whom would not be keen to see Strategic given a free kick. Also suspect there may be a few creditors keen to support rival bids if they provide a better financial outcome.
Next creditors meeting 24th June and until then people can speculate all they like.

[betaman]

HotDog & FGD135

I rarely enter into a battle of wits with unarmed opponents, but for you guys I will make an exception.:hmm:

That is your BOLD, I presume?
A very BOLD statement to make about an extremely safe aircraft whose unfortunate accident of late, that has so far not even been located; let alone any factual reason yet discovered for the tragedy.

Correct my bolding, your deductive powers are obviously wasted on PPRune.:rolleyes:I didn't mention anything about the "unfortunate accident of late" YOU did.:ok:

The point of my post, which was obviously lost on you & FGD, is the ridiculous statement made in the press release which has no basis in fact. It is akin to that other gem of a saying often quoted in press releases "worlds best practice".

Even if that recent accident was later found to be a fault of the aircraft, it would still be "one of the safest aircraft in aviation history".

Learn to read and comprehend, betaman

FGD135 maybe your reading & comprehension skills could do with a bit of polish up.:ok:

I included the whole paragraph rather than quote, as you did, a small portion. This was to avoid being taken out of context so the reader can make up their own mind. It matters not that the aircraft is supposed to be "one of the safest" or "the safest" it is still a stupid statement to make about any aircraft.

PS You guys aren't EADS salesmen perchance?

Back to the topic.

Australianguy: I have friends & former colleagues who have been caught up in the Ozjet & SAW mess so I sincerely hope this is not just another exercise in futility.

[Timber]

Why would any Australian HC AOC holder (like the ones mentioned) lodge an expression of interest??? Surely they would only be trawling for information. Strategic may be in a bit of a spell here with their aircraft being delivered shortly and no AOC in sight yet; that could be expensive...!

[Torres]

Anyone could lodge "an expression of interest" with the Administrator to acquire the company (and thus the AOC) under a scheme of arrangement. I have no idea why and would be very surprised if an existing AOC holder would be interested in going through the process, gaining creditors agreement etc. I think the creditors would not be interested unless there was a very significant financial benefit in the deal.

Occasionally, the original share holders/Directors may offer to buy back the company in Administration (and thus AOC) through a negotiated dividend (cents in the dollar) on the debts.

Ansett Airlines (company and AOC) was for sale for at least a year, perhaps longer, before being relinquished back to CASA for cancellation.

I hate to rain on your parade, but I would be very surprised if OzJet (and it's AOC) were sold.

[fancypants]

Strategic had some recent negotiations with Brindabella to purchase a fair chunk of Brindabella, but the deal fell through in the end. Not sure why.

[3 Holer]

I hate to rain on your parade, but I would be very surprised if OzJet (and it's AOC) were sold.

Spot on, as usual, Torres.

[Rudder]

It would be very surprising for Strategic to buy Ozjet although they appear to be floundering around trying to get an AOC one way or the other. I thought they had in fact made an application quite some time ago, Perhaps they need to just get on with it.

There is really no sense in the Ozjet AOC. An old Boeing AOC is a long way from an Airbus operation. Unless of course they want to operate that equipment.

While the purchase doesn't require CASA's approval, I bet they wouldn't like it if it is felt that it is a shortcut to an Airbus operation.

If they are hellbent on buying one, I would think there is only one Airbus AOC about that they they would have any chance of getting and that has 180 minutes EDTO to boot. All the check and training in place, manuals, maintenance systems and Airbus experienced people.

Maybe they have tried that already.

[feenix]

I agree, it will never happen

[Capn Bloggs]

Betaman,
HotDog & FGD135

I rarely enter into a battle of wits with unarmed opponents, but for you guys I will make an exception
Good stuff. Keep it up. :D

[gas-chamber]

A bit like dogs engaging in bum-sniffing. To see what the other one is made of or maybe an opportunity for a quickie? If Strategic are having problems with their AOC application, buying Ozjet is a misguided way around the problem. Their smooth CEO may spend big with other peoples money but by now he must know a bit about the way CASA works.
So the game plan is something else. And neither NJS, Network, Alliance nor Skywest would be keen on the something else so they sniff as well. The worst they can do by showing interest is drive the price up a bit.

[Crew rest.]

Nobody has signed anything as yet...

[Pine Tree Island]

From this "Heavy Cargo" post just some 12 months ago to the current debacle......you know Nick, you really should have taken the deal.:ugh:

Nick LEACH funded cash to HeavyLift Cargo Airlines to buy OZ Jet the entire company , routes, AOC, aircraft , paid the debt and all will truck on . The HeavyLift guys will help turn the ship ( OZ Jet ) around. There maybe new equipment like QCs which will help lower costs for both operators. HVY can now add a couple of B757QC or B737-300 QCs to fly domestic so the cargo guys ( HeavyLift ) can fly domestic freight when the pax guys ( OZ Jet ) are sleeping at night. The HVY International and outsized operation will remain. There is a long term deal with Solomons and pax traffic rights coming for Noumea and PNG all current HeavyLift ports.
All ten aircraft 6 HVY and 4 OZ are owned nil debt or loans beats a leased operator all day long.
HVY have extensive ground equipment and engineering and many new jobs will be advertised next Friday including Engineers and Engineering managers, tech crew B737 and B727, cabin crew , station managers etc.
HVY have plenty ( $$$ ) and play hardball for keeps, so the carriers and people whom spoke ill about OZ Jet prior to the purchase may want to pull their heads in going forward now it has a big brother

[Mach E Avelli]

If nothing signed and no money for essential staff to attend work, it's an Own goal for OzJet-HeavyLift. Free kick to Alliance. Game is in overtime until noon today.
Strategic team will need another few months in training before playing at AOC level.

[Torres]

Unless Strategic were to assume liability for the total debts of OzJet - which appears most unlikely - it would need a creditor's deed of arrangement for Strategic to acquire only the company and it's AOC, for whatever is the going price for an AOC.

Technically it is possible; historically I don't recall any similar schemes getting up.

If that scheme is proposed, staff should consider they probably have a significant voting block by numbers and should consider maximisation of payment of their entitlements as their first and only priority.

If no scheme is proposed which would financially benefit staff, the Administrator must be directed to further investigate the share holder's alleged secured debt; distinct possibility the company knowingly traded insolvent and any financial transactions which occurred after the company became insolvent, including any transactions of a preferential nature.

[Mach E Avelli]

'......whatever is the going price for an AOC'.

Today - about a million or two. Tomorrow, priceless - as in worthless.

[Section28- BE]

Giday Torres-

Was not the YC one extracted ex Administration (without the total liability going with it)??, via/with the backing of the major (secured) Financial Creditors- who's voting power of course exceeded the general creditors via dollar value.

Rgds
28- BE

[grrowler]

Can someone explain to a simple line pilot what the benefits are of buying an existing AOC (if you could get it without any company debt) for a different aircraft type and adding the new type, over starting from scratch?

Just from what I've heard, the cost is going to be about the same, so is it that it might be a couple of months quicker (assuming it's done right the first time)?

[3 Holer]

......buying an existing AOC (if you could get it without any company debt)

You cannot buy an AOC! :ugh:

[grrowler]

Ok, if you don't want to call it "buying" an AOC, then let's call it acquiring a company that has an AOC, and ditching everything you don't want and replacing it with what you do want. Same same...:ugh:

[gas-chamber]

Growler, the benefits of buying a basket case like Ozjet would only be strategic in nature; pardon the pun. To keep someone else out of something that could be profitable in the future. Maybe contracts coming up with a couple of mining companies and a government department which all need air transport to remote locations? Some locations being surrounded by ocean? Some locations being close to a long runway under RAAF control?
But from all accounts the opportunity to do that is now gone. Thanks to old Nick.

[jack red]

buy Ozjet you have to buy Ozjet's debt.there would have to be some pro's as gas chamber has alluded to but i don't think there are?i heard the Ozjet was tushed up by Stoddart to sell to Heavilift who thought they could get the AOC (Ozjets) to replace the Sierra Leone one.all turned to ****e now the whole thing's one big mess. pity cause Ozjet was doing Ok in the ad hoc charter game.

[betaman]

Capn Bloggs cheers mate:ok:

grrowler & gas-chamber thanks for making perfect sense.:ok:

I can't believe this topic has gone on for so long & still ppl are arguing about "buying AOC's":ugh:

3 holer said
You cannot buy an AOC!

3 holer, yes technically one cannot "buy an AOC" as it is company specific however if the company structure stays the same i.e. key personnel, in CASA's eyes, remain in place & the new owners are financially viable enough to manage the company, again in CASA's eyes, then it can be sold as a going concern including the AOC.

As is evidenced by the initial sale of Ozjet to Heavy Lift, when that went through did Ozjet have to stop flying & re-apply for their AOC?

Not to mention other changes of ownership in recent history like Ansett to Air New Zealand then subsequently the failed Tesna bid, Virgin to Patricks then subsequently to Toll, Macair when it was sold to Byrt & Co, Pelair & Airlink to Rex, NJS to Cobham etc etc.

[Gnd Power]

So NL stuffs the offer around and ends up with zip.

Seems a real bright move.

Maybe he want to buy the carcass back!!

[Torres]

Section28- BE

Yes, I forget about that one. You are correct - the company, Flight West Airlines Pty Ltd, was acquired with an AOC and assets.

But the circumstances were very different. The company was not insolvent and was able to pay it's debts.

Frankly, creating Flight West Airlines is part of my life I'd sooner forget.

It's descendant is not a monument to the wonderfully dedicated and professional men and women, pilots, engineer and staff that built the original airline.

An AOC is a piece of paper with no real value. It may be varied or withdrawn at CASA's pleasure.

For Strategic to buy OzJet (comapny and thus AOC) and change it to meet Strategic's purpose, operations, aircraft type and operational staff would be akin to buying a Holden Kingswood and converting it, bit by bit, to a Ford Falcon V8.

There are those who believe, probably quite correctly, that acquiring an existing AOC avoids the gross incompetence and procrastination of CASA's intransigent, bloated and egotistical bureaucracy.

And that definitely is worth something! :ok:

[wing & a prayer]

Yes, I forget about that one. You are correct - the company, Flight West Airlines Pty Ltd, was acquired with an AOC and assets.

But the circumstances were very different. The company was not insolvent and was able to pay it's debts.

Not really into the discussion, but just to set the record straight flight west where insolvent (despite what they told everybody) and paid 0c in $ to unsuccured creditors like me. I lost a *****:mad: of $ on them.

[Section28- BE]

Dear wing & a prayer

to set the record straight flight west where insolvent (despite what they told everybody) and paid 0c in $For what it's worth (and it probably doesn't matter any more)- I reckon it was a set of events that were not of YC's making or Corporate/Operational control..............

Think you'll find that asset values on airframes once the events of 11 Sept happened, rendered the show (all shows) insolvent- as was most of Aviation for the moment.

Only avoidable if one was not in Administration- which as fate would have it Flight West was, - tip here, look to Partners and deals not done on Burners well before meltdown...........

Tootle pip- also think you may find that the Administrator's made/paid Super & a Token- but yes, did miss on entitlements beyond...........

Define, "Sh#te Load"- bet mine's bigger that yours:suspect::suspect::oh::E:eek::eek:.............. and I'm not related........ and it really doesn't matter............

If you worked for them- maybe that's all "we" can take from that, and without outing myself- I'd fight/work for RDB (RIP) and what was (including the wonderful "People" and staff that had tenure- as highlighted by Torres) again- you wont see that in the future.......... ever.

Rgds
S28- BE

[UNOME]

If I was a betting man, and I am not...

Strategic Airlines is SIMPLY setting up for the future.

1. Brindibella (Strategic Link)- Done Deal, smart move:)
2. OzJet Airlines (Strategic Domestic)-Done deal, smarter move:D
3. 51% of Tiger (Strategic Inter)- Almost Done deal, smartest move yet:ok:

:}

[wing & a prayer]

Dear S28- BE,
For what it's worth (and it probably doesn't matter any more)- I reckon it was a set of events that were not of YC's making or Corporate/Operational control..............

Think you'll find that asset values on airframes once the events of 11 Sept happened, rendered the show (all shows) insolvent- as was most of Aviation for the moment.

Yep I would agree with that one, if it wheren't for AN collapse and sept 11 we may have seen some or all of our money.

[QUOTE][Define, "Sh#te Load"- bet mine's bigger that yours........... ... and I'm not related........ and it really doesn't matter............/QUOTE]
Try around $100k in ticket charge backs, we wheren't even a creditor until the liquidators declared a nil payout and passengers charged back all the credit card charges for tickets they had purchased from me.

As always it ussually falls back on the staff and small punters like us that pay for things that are beyond our control.

I am a lot wiser now and automatically realise once the administrators are called in you say good bye to your money, at least Geers provides some hope for the staff.

regards w & p

[Section28- BE]

Giday- wing & a prayer

Yes acknowledged- when big things move these things happen, was that NLK ticketed revenue???

Am not having a go, but for me and mine- will see your $100k & raise you if you want- bloody hard for all affected, and I'm not here to justify or explain, as trust me 'twas a fight well fought against some circumstances I hope and pray Aviation doesn't see again here in Aus- ever!!!.

GEERS, you can have that one- a shimmy to show some tacit care and understanding in my view- prosecuted for Gvt expedience........... Administrators...........hmmmmmmmmm- "Hope", no there was and would never be any hope out of that, hard and clinical loss for the staff... anything out of that was repaid by the administration prior to any distribution outside..........

Trust your world is now stable & moved beyond.

Rgds & best wishes
S28- BE

[Bundaberg]

How convenient for Ozjet- Heavy to involve yet another third party. It takes the flack of their real issues of liquidation / admistration not to mention their immediate responsibilities of crew and staff payments.

The Ozjet-Heavy executive (mob) would still enjoy their fine lifestyle and continue to sleep soundly knowing they have the money and time to plan their next move.

Strategic like many other proven operators have their own issues which I am sure they will resolve. They are respected and appear to have a solid corporate structure with little need to purchase Ozjet to obtain an AOC.

[tail wheel]

This thread closed - please refer to THIS (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/374563-ozjets-final-landing-8.html) thread.