Luanda Living

[Arik]

There are so many expat forums but all seem to be geared towards the oil industry. Wondering if anyone on here can give me first hand up to date knowledge please ...

How much would a 2/3 bed apartment/house be near the airport, nothing flash but liveable?
Would utilities be included in the rent, if not - what's the average monthly cost?
What's the airport area like, shopping, eating out (African style is fine)?
Is it safe, in regards to walking around during the day, children (thinking holidays)?
Would there be need to have gardiens/security guys for vigilance?
Costs of domestic help? ie. security
Shopping; I've read some horrendous prices on forums but from what I can gather they eat as they would back home. Going to the market & picking up veg etc as I do in other African countries, is it really that pricey???

Any other info from Luanda residents would be very useful!

Please don't tell me it's a sh*****e, I'm expecting that & have seen some in my time in Africa but if you can give me comparison 'holes' that would be useful!

Thanks

Arik

[big buddah]

Basic live-able 3 bedroom $3000-$4000 pm yes USD
Power you'd have to supply your own generator unknown ?$1000pm
Yes definitely have to have guard $3-400pm x2 $600/800pm
Maid $150-200
Water if not on mains, trucked in $300pm
Yes you can go to the markets but there's no security stick with shoprite.

Children definitely not for Luanda

Holes probably one of the worst in Africa, if your not on a contract with someone forget it.

[Shrike200]

'Hole' comparison:

Living in a tent in Loki was infinitely more pleasant than living in Luanda, in a fully furnished house, with electricity and running water.

/'Hole' Comparison.

[ugflyer]

Alright then, big buddah and shrike 200 have officially confirmed that Luanda has a higher standard of living than the likes of any city in Switzerland or what you would find in any scandanavian country.
According to big-buddah, a basic liveable apartment or house with my ehphasis being on "basic" runs for around 3-4 thousand us dollars a month.
I would like to know what the annual income per capita would be for your average Angolan citizen to be able to afford the above prices. The above mentioned prices would send shivers through the spines of countless Japanese who think they spend the most on living expenses.
I have never been to Luanda, but I don't buy it!

:ok:

[big buddah]

ugflyer,
Understand where your coming from but ask anyone whose spent time in Luanda will tell you roughly the same.
Luanda was built by the Portuguese with the infrastructure for about 400 thousand. With thirty odd years of civil war, it has only ever been the safe place in the country. So over time everyone moved there as the safe haven. There is around 4 million now living in Luanda.
With thirty odd years of civil war very very little was ever spent on infrastructure there. There is no real city power or water, roads it the city are barely drivable. With the influx of oil and mining money cars are now everywhere but no where to drive them. Depending where you lived it could easily take an hour and a half to drive 7 km!
There is nice parts of Luanda, the haves where money is no object. Who spend there time down on the water front. The expat contract workers who live in the compounds.....
There is very little livable accommodation there that's not expensive.

and rest of the population live in one big never ending squatter camp.
Wish I could post photo's.

There is a huge future for Angola but lets all hope that the divide between have and have nots doesn't start another wee fight.

[maxrated]

UGflyer.

Luanda has a higher standard of living than the likes of any city in Switzerland or what you would find in any scandanavian country.

Sir, you should not allow your pre concieved notions about international economics and economies of scale to cloud your judgement on how things work in Africa, especially in the Peoples most Serene and Democratic Republic of Angola.

Big Buddah and Shrike are pretty much on the money in their assesments.

the annual income per capita would be for your average Angolan citizen to be able to afford the above prices.

The average Angolan citizen could only dream of of living in a cement built house with running water and electricity. More likely the average Angolan citizen, would be trying to eke a living from his mud walled grass roofed hut in the middle of the bush.

Just because the costs are expensive does not mean that the quality is good or that you are living in a nice place. Its the basic law of supply and demand which drives the prices (economics 101).

Also remember that as a wazungu in Angola , the locals would be aware that you are not there because of the scenic beauty of the place and are there working for some mega wealthy foreign company, so they will attempt to kazonga you for as much money as they can, which also tends to be inflationary.

[Shrike200]

Just to be clear (it seems there may be a misunderstanding), I merely commented that living in a TENT in Loki (with communal bathrooms etc) was preferable to living in a HOUSE (with own bathroom, amenities etc) in Luanda. It was just a comparison of my experience of one place vs another, with a side order of 'the facilities don't always matter the most'. :)

[Arik]

Thanks for your input, I didn't want to start an argument on here! But as with others I found it hard to believe reading some of the expat forums that it was 'that' pricey although I am aware it's one if not 'the' most expensive city worldwide. You've given me food for thought with the comments!

I'm looking for prices on your average apartment, so not to hotel standards, nor do I want to be in bidonville/shantytown tent situation!

Can anyone advise me if there's an area near to the airport where say middle class Angolans live? I need to be situated as close as possible, at this rate it might just be a tent at the end of the runway!!! Anyone who knows Dar, thinking along the lines of somewhere like Namanga ... not too flash, but not in the sewers either.

Food prices? Shopping for an average week for say two people? Using markets etc as far as possible!

As you can probably tell, I've never visited Luanda so any further input would be great!

Arik

[Bushfiva]

I know you're going to wait for the one person who says "it's wonderful really" and believe him, but you'll still be wrong.

In 2005, the consumer price index for Angola was more than 18x higher than Japan. It was also 18x higher than 2000.

The sample basket of products costing $1 in 1996 cost $1800 in 2005.

Consumer price index (2005) by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_con_pri_ind-economy-consumer-price-index&date=2005)

NationMaster - Time Series > Economy > Consumer price index > Angola (http://www.nationmaster.com/time.php?stat=eco_con_pri_ind-economy-consumer-price-index&country=ao-angola)

I'm sure there's more recent data out there, but I'll leave that as an exercise for someone else.

[Tex]

Arik,

You are just not getting it. There are no apartments like you want. It's either pay for security and safety or live like a local. It haves and have-nots. Nothing in between.

[Arik]

I do get it; just trying to do as much research as possible, if it means renting only the top end as there's nothing in between, well so be it!

Anymore info on districts of Luanda, especially in relation to the airport would be welcomed! I hear traffic is horrific!

Arik

[B Sousa]

Arik
Have you been to Africa?? If not I suggest taking a little vacation down that way and get your eyes open. I have seen a lot of folks working down there and making as much money as they could in "normal" parts of the globe.
I dont understand why so many want to work in a place where Health and Security are such big concerns. Pay is not all that great and if you have a family, adventure should not even be on the table.
Further if you are not from Africa and have no clue about the secrets of getting around, your just a target for the locals.
If you are looking for work at age 40, sounds as if some misfortune has already come your way or you are in the midst of building time on a new career. Either way there are better places to work. What is your specialty fixed or rotary wing? Lets see if we can find something better.

[big buddah]

If you're really adamant you want to go there and look after yourself you've got big balls or rather adventurous.
It's not a place you want to go and have to look after yourself. English is not widely spoken, I survived by having a lot of locals around and a few of the boys were Portuguese.
Security is a huge issue there and it's probably only going to get worse again???
If you're going to look after yourself you'll struggle to get a work permit and live in constant attention fear of the police and cozoza(spelling you know what I mean if you've been there!)
Also you have to be invited into the country to get a entry visa.

$3000-$4000 is the entry level for a basic ****hole 10% of western standards if your thinking of wife and kiddies $6000+. Also the land lord will change the price depending what day of the week it is, even once you're in it.

If you're just looking for a African adventure start somewhere else!

[Arik]

Thanks guys, I've spent over 30yrs in parts of Africa on & off, from a child ... spend a lot of time in parts of W.Africa where the prices aren't as horrendous but they've just come out of civil war.

I'm not fixed or rotary, I'm on the gound (I wish I did have wings though!)

It's a case of wherever the work is, I'll take it!

Who on here is based there at the moment????

Arik

[E.A.T]

I did a short trip to Luanda... 3 day. The prices caught me by surprise... a simple "McDonald's" style meal for two ran about 45USD at a new mall. Our daily Per Diem wasn't enough to cover the hotel cost. We had to dip into our own funds and get reimbursed later. I didn't see any middle class neighborhood in the few days that I was there. I think the best way to see Luanda is passing through on someone else dime with a roll of cash in your pocket.

[arf1410]

a buddy of mine is renting a small house in a secure compound a 1-2 hour drive from airport, and the price is about $16,000 a month. He had to pay 18 months, the entire term of lease, in cash up front... of course it is a corporate (not oil) expense account...

late 1990s thru early 2000s, Luanda was one of my favorite spots in Africa, but it was no where near as chaotic then...

[TWOTBAGS]

I did two years on rotation out of Lunada from the end of the war……

Lets just say that although the prices mentioned here were not as high back then it was , is and will probably always be a cling-on near the arsch der erde…….

If you wanted to live the life it was expensive…. Miami, Club Naval, The Vietnamese and Chinese, even Rialto and mostly Bahia! You could drop a hundred and almost not notice.

However if you wanted do go local, you could drink Cuca or Super Bock at the Stinky Bar and eat some rat off the side of the road……. It wouldn’t kill you (leave that to Pub Royale) but it was cheap!

Strokes for folks, personally, I would never entertain the thought of taking the family there but for me we worked hard, partied hard, avoided the Ninjas and paybacks, made some life long friends through shared hardship.

Basically if you are punching the clock for someone else, take the money do the rotation and have some fun……….. if you want to move there, with the family, thinking you are going to pick something up………

FORGET IT

The only thing you will pick up is something a doctor cant get rid of and the tab on your now ex-wife’s new house and attorney fees!

[chileno 777]

Lived in Luanda from 2002 to 2008.
Districts near Luanda airport are: Martires, Kasenda , Rocha Pinto. There is no decent infrastructure in those places and also they are very dangerous.
“Normal” districts are: Maianga, Alvalade, Miramar, Marginal. A 1 bedroom apartment rental cost is at least 1500/2000 USD (utilities are not included). Land lords require 12 months in advance cash. A house with 3-4 bedrooms costs between 15000 to 20000 USD per month (1 year in advance payment). Other decent districts are Talatona (where most of the expats compounds are located) or Nova Vida. They have better infrastructure (roads) than Luanda and also cheaper (house between 5000 to 10000 USD) not so far from the downtown BUT a trip in the mornings or evenings will take you 2 to 3 hours (each leg). Private security is required specially if you live in a house. (1500 USD per month).
Salary of local maids between 100 to 200 usd but you will have to teach them basic things like wash their hands before cooking or after using the toilet…and yes they will steal from you.
Bear in mind that they are regular blackouts in Luanda hence you would have to buy a generator (min 1500 usd). Regular water supply is also an issue so people buy water tanks and have to purchase water from the trucks. Do not drink water from the tap.
Roads are in very bad conditions and the traffic jam is terrible and getting worse.
A normal regular meal (French fries with a steak) in a decent restaurant costs 30/40 USD min. Can of coke 2 USD.
The only open space to walk is on the Marginal (waterfront) until sunset…not beautiful and sometimes smells very bad. Closed place to “walk” is the Belas (mall). Do not walk alone on the street (even during the day) and if in a car do not use your cell phone especially in the traffic jam.
Various supermarkets are available. No problem to buy the things that you usually eat in western countries but some items are very expensive, like the fruit (apples 10 usd per kilo if not more). Rump steak 15 to 20 usd per kilo.
Better do not trust on local private clinics. They are very expensive and quality not always good. Exception are the clinic of some oil companies (ie.Total fina Elf) although do not know if they are open to regular patients.
If you go with your children take also in consideration the costs of school. School for the expats kids costs generally between 500 to 1000 usd per month. Do not even think of putting your children in the local schools.
The night life is quite good. Local girls are beautiful and nice (very interested in your money).
The best option is to go to Angola under an expat contract.
Hope that the post helps. If you need more information do not hesitate to ask.

[Arik]

Thanks Chileno, great post without telling me (who doesn't have any balls but is quite used to African conditions) what to do ...

To be forarmed is to be forewarned; I work for myself, I need as much input as I can get; so this has been a very helpful thread!

Arik

[ct2003]

In 2007 and 2008 (may be also in 2009), LAD was ranked the most expensive city of the world for ex-pats. From my experience during those years there, the difference to other expensive cities is that you can't expect quality for the fortune you spend there.

The appartments are still ****-holes, you still need (expensive) water bottles to brush your teeth, meat is like horse meet but not like beef et cetera. The above mentioned burger at the only new (but poorly equipped) shopping mall is one of these examples - ripping you off but not serving quality at all. Same at shoprite at Belas shopping. Handfull of tomatoes for 8 Euros but worse than the dutch tomatoes :} power-cuts, phone and cell network (if any) breaking down... endless...

Climate is ****, too. Too high humidity, malaria and mossies all year round. Full selection of tropical diseases availble :eek: Nothing to see or do araound LAD, even LAD is poor. You won't have fun not speaking Portuguese.

One of our freelancers compared it to Lagos. (I haven't been to LOS, so that's just word of mouth).

I can only underline the advice: if you don't have to go there STAY AWAY :=

[Carrier]

From BBC: “Luanda is the most expensive city in the world for foreign workers, according to a survey.” BBC NEWS | Business | Luanda 'priciest city for expats' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8094873.stm)

[AAL]

Luanda is the worst place on earth.

They are going to eat you before breakfast if you dont have a local guide and good security guard.

My advice is to stay away, rather try Monrovia in Liberia!

[chileno 777]

The ideal situation is to go to Angola under an expat contract since they will take care regarding the most difficult thing to find in Luanda...accommodation.
However if you manage to arrange yourself an attractive personal contract with a private or public Angolan company, please make sure that they will help you to find a decent place to live or at least you will receive any housing allowance…because believe me the rental can be 30% (or more) of your salary. Kindly note that decent in Angola is a word that has a different meaning compared with Europe or USA. Also do not forget that sometimes even having money is quite difficult to have quality or to find something “decent” to live.
Do not want to tell you what to do, but let me suggest you do not take your family with you to Angola. Reasons:
There is nothing to do in Luanda. Wife will soon become bored.
There is not a single park (normal with grass) for children to play.
You will be always worried regarding the diseases that could affect your kids.
Schools for expats kids are very expensive…and money not always will guarantee you a place for them.

Rgds.

[akut]

hi chileno,


YOU ARE COMPLETLY RIGHT!!! I´M LOCAL AND REALLY SICK TIRED OF THIS S####