Assessment at Oxford

[Adimondo]

Dear forum mates,

I was at Oxford for Skills Assessment and got the following results:

Compass – an absolute disaster. A maximum of 7 points per module can be reached. Totally there are 42 points for the 6 modules. Pass limit are 28 points. I reached 17 points:
Hand-Eye-Foot-Coordination – 2
Slalom – 5
Maths – 3
Memory – 4
Orientation – 1
Multitasking – 2

Technical Knowledge & Physics – OK
Psychologic questionnaire – OK
Simulator – OK
2 x group exercises & group discussion – OK
Interview - OK

Despite poor results in the Compass test they certified me as big potential and offered to re-sit the Compass 3 months later.

Background:
Brushed up intensively exactly for 3 months and 3 weeks before assessment using OAA-media maths & physics, BBC-bitesize, Skytest and Cockpitweb every day.

At the debrief I only could realize and understand the poor performance in Hand-Eye-Foot-Coordination and Maths (worked through 16-17 questions out of 24 in 20min – that’s ⅔). We couldn’t figure out the reasons of the desaster in the other modules. We checked some exercises especially concerning the spacial awareness test (RBI-test) and I performed well. I want to point out that I didn’t the same errors as the most wannabes do. I felt confident and the Compass didn’t represent a real challenge for me. Excepting the Memory test: there were to complete 2 to 3 lines. It seemed to work with 2 lines. After pushing “Enter” the 3rd line went blank. We couldn’t find out what went wrong. Weird. I’m still puzzled and I’m pretty aware that I’ll never find out the reasons. Regarding Hand-Eye-Foot-Coordination and Maths, well, it could be the unfavorable convulsions/gyrus of the brain (it plays a crucial role regarding one person’s abilities). In other words: either you have it or not. There is not much room for improvement once a certain level is reached after a period of time spent with intensive training.

Summarizing the facts: the Compass test was easy and didn’t challenge me really. I realized that I didn’t meet the minimum requirements regarding Hand-Eye-Foot-Coordination and Maths (despite a long period of intensive training). With respect to the other modules I’m just puzzled and the debrief couldn’t shed some light on it. I’m experienced with flight instruments and didn’t the same mistakes of the most candidates (not reading exactly the instructions). On the other hand the results of my performance in the Compass test didn’t match at all with the results of the Simulator test. I got stuck in an abstruse situation being absolutely puzzled.

Taking into consideration that the training ist extremely demanding and costly some thoughts would help me deciding on the next steps to be taken (or not).

Thank you very much for some constructive thoughts!

[Aerouk]

Go for the PPL and see how you get on. Speak to your instructor and get their opinion on what your flying is like. If he says you shouldn't progress then having a PPL is still a great thing to have.

Selection isn't always accurate; especially if you're tired, nervous, stressed etc.

[clanger32]

First thing to remember is that Compass is not the be all and end all..."failing" compass may be considered an indicator...but the question is, an indicator of what.

It may be an indicator that it's not for you, it may be an indicator you had an "off" day, it may be an indicator you had a faulty machine!

I think it's clear that you have the ability from your other results. I would suggest either A) go to the GAPAN assessment - it's totally non biased and a different test - if it comes out the same, maybe you have some thinking to do. B) If OAA have given you the option of re-doing the test....do that. You know now exactly what to expect, so you can revise specificaly.

Final point, think you're right in saying that broadly you either have it or you don't, but it's not true to say you can't improve it...you certainly can....and this is (partly) what happens as you go through your training. You may never get to 7/7 standard on the hand/eye coord tests...but you can improve.

Sounds to me like you had a bad day/got a bit unlucky. My advice, try again and see what you get...same results = think about it, different results = bad day at the office first time around.

that said, clearly you have to be honest with yourself...if you thought you did as well as you could and there was no evidence of a fault, then maybe there's no milage in re-doing the tests....but it does NOT mean you can't make it....it's nothing more than a broad indicator...
good luck

[Adimondo]

Thank you very much gents for your views! I'll re-sit the Compass at OAA an then decide on the further steps to be taken.
Good luck!

[Guy J]

I failed the compass test first time and was told that my profile was not regarded as being the optimum personality for the airlines. I re took it three months later and entered OAA in 2007 but had to waiver the skills guarantee.

So what was the result? I passed all exams first time with a 94% average. Passed all skills test first time with straight 2's. Passed CPL first time. Passed IR first time. Got assessed as being outstanding through MCC and JOT. Got selected by BA on the SSP program (all on hold now) and then was awarded best flying for our class. After this I then completed my FI(a) rating, got rejected by Ryanair and sit in a hold pool at another airline.

So you see compass really does not seem to mean much. Some guys who were really strong on the compass struggled with the flying part of the course. I dont think I am the worlds most gifted when it comes to flying and certainly not when it comes to Maths I just worked harder than the rest.

Hope this helps put it in perspective and good luck.

[TheBeak]

And you must have been succesful in your previous career too to have all that money - An integrated Oxford course, an FI rating AND you were willing to pay Ryanair for a TR. I wouldn't have left that job......

That aside, those 'selections' are the most pointless things in the universe, they are meaningless, take it with a pinch of salt, it is just a money making scheme. Having been through various selections within an array of industries I can conclude that integrated FTO selections are weak, half arsed and gauge nothing but present performance in that capacity. When it comes to flying training, knowledge is everything (so work hard to learn your aircraft inside out), you aren't training on a Starfighter so it's not that hard to keep up with the aircraft (though it can be at the start of course). Go modular, get your PPL to confirm your aptitude and gain some confidence with a minimal outlay and risk to yourself - it makes perfect sense...... unless you desperately want it all NOW.

[Guy J]

Why cant you put a post on here without someone shooting you down? First post I ve put on thank you for the warm welcome. Although I do agree with some of your comments getting a PPL first would be a great asset although guys who had PPL's were at no advantage. Yes I did work hard before I undertook my flight training thank you.

[Guy J]

Actually I may have taken your comment out of context so please accept my appologies. :rolleyes: I am also not with Ryanair nor paying for my TR

[TheBeak]

I think you might have! But no worries and welcome:ok:

[Propellerhead]

I know the default attitude is cynicism when it comes to anything the large FTO's do, however I have to take exception to some of 'the beak's' post! The assessments are not meaningless, pointless, nor are they a complete waste of time. There is a strong correlation between success at the assessments and doing well on the course. If this wasn't the case, they wouldn't offer the 'skills guarantee' (where they will refund all your training costs if you fail), (or they would be making a huge loss from it)!

The assessments are difficult, intensive, and demanding - just like the course. In a lot of ways it is a filter - if someone can be bothered to do their research and revise well for the assessment then it shows commitment. Over the 2 days the FTO will learn a lot about a candidate's suitability - aptitude, trainability, personality, commitment, dedication, inter personal skills etc.

However, there is no such thing as a perfect system and there will always be good people who are turned down because they had a bad day, or people who slip through the net. But do you think the airline selection procedure is any different? It's not. (And is often broadly similar to the FTO's assessments).

Personally, I failed the assessments several times on my road to becoming an airline pilot, but I persevered, worked hard, went back and passed them. I think that showed how determined I was to succeed, and if someone demonstrates that, then that is one of the most important qualities that will see you through your training and your career.

I agree that knowledge is a very important part of training, but you have to be determined, dedicated, and hard working to acquire that knowledge (one of the things being assessed). The assessment also tests some of that knowledge (maths/physics) that you will need.

Adimondo - I would go back and resit the OAA tests (if you do it says a lot about how much you really want this), but work hard before you go to improve on the areas you fell down on. There are books out there to help with spacial awareness, and contrary to popular belief, you CAN (will) improve your scores through practice. I agree with others - go and sit the GAPAN tests, and why not CABAIR, FTE and CTC? Even if you don't want to go there it will be very good practice, and the expense is small compared to the overall cost of training. Good luck!

[TheBeak]

The assessments are not meaningless, pointless, nor are they a complete waste of time.

Assessments are not, they are essential, but FTOs assessments, the way they are, are a waste of time. They are nothing like selective enough. As for the hand eye coordination tests, they are only really necessary for one person.

The assessments are difficult, intensive, and demanding

I am afraid they are not but that is just my opinion. The very fact that there are excessively more pilots than there are jobs shows they aren't. It shouldn't be about training anyone who has the ability of obtaining a CPL/IR, you can train a monkey to do it if you have enough cash (a hyperbole before some highly strung 'pilot' with too much time on their hands jumps down my throat).

But do you think the airline selection procedure is any different? It's not.

It actually is. Perhaps not in content or style however in terms of end goal......IT IS. The airlines actually mean what they are selecting.

they wouldn't offer the 'skills guarantee' (where they will refund all your training costs if you fail),

Come on, you can't mean this can you? I think alot of your previous posts have shown you to be a useful source of info. It isn't IF you fail - it is up to the point of CPL and it isn't ALL your costs. It also doesn't include any remedial training or re-testing. They probably allow you enough re-tests until your money runs out, so they are sensibly covered.

It's the same old dating agency line 'if you haven't found love in 6 months we'll give you your money back'

Except even fewer find love, the poor buggers.

[Propellerhead]

I believe the skills net is up to the IR now. I also don't believe you can train a monkey to get a cpl/IR - I found it very demanding anyway! At the end of the day it's the FTO's job to churn out pilots, you can't expect them to restrict that during a recession - that's up to the individual's choice of whether this is a good time to train or not (time to get the crystal ball out as to when airlines will recruit again).

Incidently, the 1st time pass rate is less than 50% for the assessments I believe.

I was lucky to gain a sponsorship back in the 'good ole' days', and the assessments for that were largely the same as is used now (with exception of the final interview which obviously only selected a small number of those that passes the previous stages). You could argue that final interview is now conducted after training (which benefits those who didn't do so well at the assessments but did really well at training).

You have to remember that before 9/11 when 75% of students were sponsored, 25% were simply let it in if they wrote a big enough cheque. The present system may not be perfect but I do believe it's an improvement.