uk first officer programmes

[cooper1976]

probably been discussed many times but as a new member on hear, i would like to get some feedback from people currently doing intergrated training. I was looking at OAA and cabair cranfied. Any advice ?

also i presume from what i read that intergrated training is much more disireable for future employment, is this right ?
thanks for any feedback

[stuzzy1980]

put your crash helmet on.........

Int vs Mod discussion with a side serving of OAA......

....topics covered in detail elsewhere in this forum, on both subjects but expect a litany of negativity towards anything OAA and Integrated...........

[EZYramper]

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/251490-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html

Everything you could ever want to know, happy reading!

Advice you'll get from pretty much everyone: don't start training now, give it 2-3 years at least.

[bfisk]

...and that's a damned poor advice if you understand the cyclical behaviour of this business. Plan to be done in two or three years.

[jksamra]

i agree...plan to start around now, hopefully what i'll be looking to do...
good luck!

[Torque Tonight]

Some element of truth in posts 4 and 5. It is true that now is a terrible time to be job hunting. However, the irony is that at no time do the flying schools say 'now is a bad time to start training'. When the market is good they tell you how many graduates are getting picked up by the airlines. When the market is bad, they tell you how 'by the time you complete training there will be a huge demand for first officers'. Don't remember them ever saying 'if you start training now you'll graduate when there are no jobs whatsoever and you'll be on the dole or flipping burgers with debts the size of a house mortgage'.

Make you're own mind up.

Integrated vs Modular? Depends on you as a person and your background. There must be at least 50,000 individual posts on the subject here. Read some of them.

[Madder]

Its naive to think that if you start your training at a low, things will be up and ready for you...just as you finish your training. Cycles in industry/economy or not...
But its a good line for the FTO's... :)

[clanger32]

Torque tonight, excellent post. Fully agree. playing devils advocate, the only thing I would possibly say is that the downturn came on so swiftly that I'm not sure the FTOs could have had a chance to say the legend "you'll be screwed if you start now".....it pretty much went from an ok hiring position to knackered overnight...and because it's so bad, I think a lot of people - and not for a second arguing rightly, wrongly or indifferently - tihnk it's going to start coming back...therefore there is some justification in saying that "you need to be trained WHEN it comes back...not IN training"

What I would say, not playing devils advocate any more is that everyone should remember that all FTOs are businesses and are there purely to make money....therefore take everything with a pinch of salt and keep perspective. Personally, I wouldn't recommend starting integrated training until at the very least the end of this year...modular perhaps sooner, as you can spread it out more easily.

Other than that.....what torque said!

[skyhighbird]

from what i read that intergrated training is much more disireable

yes cooper (afraz)!!!!

Integrated is more desirable for future employment. And with OAA on your CV a jet job is pretty much in the bag. Fair enough BA are not recruiting 250hr cadets at the moment but once they do, you'll be in a jet job most worthless mod cadets could only dream about.

So what are you waiting for? Stop wasting your time on pprune. Get down the bank today and sort out that loan!!!!! Those glossy brochures are right. There has NEVER been a better time to train. And... oh my god I'm quivering with pleasure that I can't even type, listen to this! You get to wear a uniform :D

[boeingbus2002]

Totally agree with what everyone says above.
Mod vs Integ is another issue. However, if you REALLY want to become a pilot, you will still need that licence. That takes time and dedication.
If you are mentally and financially prepared for the fact that after paying £££'s for your course, you may still have no job prospects for a while and may still have to pay more for ratings/up keep of licence etc then do it.

Have a back up plan, think what you would do if no job. Think what you would do to keep your skills current.
Yes the industry is cyclical but this current economic situation is a little different. Its all too easy to paint a positive picture which is rosy, however with a little realistic thinking you wont have a shock after you finish!

Now back to the whole Mod Vs Integ debate, if you dont have £££'s floating around, by following the modular route, you can do each module while working and saving. With a integ route, you will not be earning for at least 55 weeks as its full time. There are more pro's and cons.

[EZYramper]

Ok, well if you don't want to listen to my "poor advice" listen to the advice of some guys who really know the industry and how things are going to pan out over the next couple of years:


http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/335548-growing-evidence-upturn-upon-us-130.html

[CABUS]

I have got to say I am from a Mod background and am on the bus for a charter comp for my first job so it didnt work out too bad BUT looking back Oxford has the contacts to open doors in the old boys network so they are not too bad. However, from what I have seen on the line their pilots are not better trained than Mod's, sometimes not as good BUT Oxford did get them their jet job. I did my MCC at Oxford a few years ago and found it very good but a large percentage of their students seemed deluded into thinking they are better trained and will get better jobs and had the arrogance to openly say it. Shame its so competitive! I dont think there really is a bad time for training, I have heard my company will soon be announcing sponsorships so I really wouldnt listen to those who are down beat about it all, it will take 18monts to train and that may be the time the industry starts picking up.

I have got to agree with the above by sky, Oxford does allow their students to wear stripes and sunglasses in mid winter which is well worth a trip to see for a laugh! When I went there with one of my company Skippers, he asked a student if he had stripes on his PJ's! COMEDY:ok:

[P-T]

First of all, I'm with Clanger on this. It's better to be looking with he qualification in the bag rather than in the process of being achieved.

Not sure where SkyHigh Bird gets his arrogance from in assuming that OAA integrated will get you a Jet Job. Not true. This only gives you a credible ATPL and on a tried and tested course. The Jet job is entirely up to you. If you aren't the right man for te job, oaren't going to get it.

I went through OAA very recently and having researched an ATPL at Cabair, FTE, CTC and many other UK FTO's I'm glad I went with OAA. You'll get a lot of complaints about OAA, but then again you'll get alot of complaints about everything on PPRUNE as thats the nature of the beast unfortunately. I chose OAA as it seemed to suit my personal requirements for the study. I'm a simple man and like to get things done in sections. Personally, doing some study, then some flying then some exams on the study would not have been the best way for me to learn, OAA do it the way that works for me.

You are going to be spending a huge amount of money on this course (only a mortgage will beat this) and its worth doing some serious research. FTE and CTC would be my close second and third choices. This isnt because they arent as good but because I prefered OAA's style.

My current employer told me an interesting fact. They have recruited people from all sorts of FTO's, both integrated and Modular. They have the definate opinion that OAA provide good FO's and all others provide good One man Operation Pilots. This is not to say that the pilots from OAA aren't as skilled manual pilots, but that they seem to be tailored for the Airline Industry whereas other FTO's focus on THe ME/CPL/IR and not what happens after. Nothing wrong with either, as the chances of a single pilot operation job is far higher at the moment than a multi crew Jet job.

If I were you, I'd keep an eye out on the upcoming Cadet schemes that will be posted in Flight international and go for them first. An almost guarantee'd job is always worth giving 100% for in the interview stages.

As for Modular or Integrated, I was toying with both and I'd chosen Modular becuase it was cheaper and could allow me to achieve things when I wanted. However, on being accepted into a Cadet Scheme I took that instead.

I hope some of the info is helpful.

[skyhighbird]

Not sure where SkyHigh Bird gets his arrogance from in assuming that OAA integrated will get you a Jet Job

Please please don't tell me you could not see even a slight whiff of sarcasm in my post? My tongue was firmly in my cheek!

I was totally taking the p!!s in my post saying that you'll get into BA and you get to wear a uniform in OAA, and that those glossy integrated brochures are right! Lighten up :ugh:

Secondly, skyhighbird is a SHE

[P-T]

Apologies chick ;). You're sarcasm was not spotted. Please accept my cynicism.

[Callsign Kilo]

1. The difference between what an Integrated and a Modular course will deliver NOW is to the tune of 30K plus. And this is not an average difference in salary between the integrated and modular bod when they have their fatpl's!

2. Do some background research on marketing and sales tactics before visiting somewhere like OAA. Have a good understanding about what is actually happening with the airline industry at the present time. It's a bit like the global economy - it's in decline.

3. Never believe statistics - piecharts, percentages and graphs are impressive, but are manipulated to represent what the person requires them to present.

4. Never pay for anything up front - Integrated or Modular.

5. If you want to fly - do it. If I were starting out now I would try to find the best damned school in the world to do a PPL. Really master those basic skills. The rest of your training will be a piece of piss when good basic handling skills have been developed. Don't just automatically think that an attractive brochure, a modern image and a bold 'claim to fame' makes an FTO. Some equally as bad pilots come from integrated schools as the do from anywhere else.

6. Flight training has always been a risk. It is now so more than ever. Don't turn your back on your dream because times are tough. However don't allow yourself to be caught wearing a pair of rose tinted glasses either. Be realistic and prudent.

7. If you want to be an airline pilot, start NETWORKING. It's cheaper than giving an FTO over 70 grand for an unguaranteed outcome.

[flyhighspeed300]

I was once in your position. Inter/ mod course?
in the end i did mod course.
Why, because i went out to america to get my PPL licence to see if it was the path that i wanted to take. This was a test before laying down thousands of pounds of money, without knowing if its for me.
PPL licence is only around £4-5K where as doing a Frozen ATPL course on a inter course is £70K. alot of money.. with no job at the end of the course unless you can find one yourself?

I then went onto cabair to finish off my CPL, IR back in the U.K, to gain the licences for a FORZEN ATPL