Oxford Aviation/FlyBe MPL

[jksamra]

I have an interview with Oxford Aviation for the new MPL course starting in sept. Is this a good way to start a flying career?
Has anyone done any interviews with oxford aviation and could give me some advice on what to expect. I understand there is a physics exam...what do i expect? GCSE physics maybe?
any help or advice would be much appreciated!

[moevydotnet]

I know its a very expensive start in your flying career!

I do the same with 1/3 of the money and I stayed in 3 different countrys.

Michael

[adverse-bump]

there is plenty of info on here about what to expect at oxford.

as for the MPL, also plenty of info on here from experienced crew (most saying its a danger to aviation safety!)

[rogerg]

(most saying its a danger to aviation safety!)

I dont agree, as a 20000hr airline pilot I would rather have a mpl than a sh-t hot "biggles". We aren't flying spitfires you know.

[VNA Lotus]

for the new MPL course starting in sept.

Oooo my god.... :eek::bored::rolleyes::=:\

new pilots from this course will never know what they'll do. Just push the right button at the right time...

[VNA Lotus]

I dont agree, as a 20000hr airline pilot I would rather have a mpl than a sh-t hot "biggles". We aren't flying spitfires you know.

come on... easy to say that when you did not follow the MPL course yourself...
Basic flying skills are very important.

[jksamra]

thanks for all the comments...
but does everything not move on...will an MPL not be the only way to be a proffesional pilot in years to come??

still not sure what to do...but i guess i may aswell give the interview a shot...

[Adios]

Did you read the FAQ Oxford posted? Right at the bottom it has a link to their own forum where you will find loads of information about their selection process. The FAQ is still there I think, but their forum can also be found from their home page.

[clanger32]

Rightly or wrongly, right now there are approximately sod all jobs out there. If you get the opportunity to get yourself onto an airline tagged course right now and if flying is what you want to do, then there is no better way of getting into the industry (IMHO). MPL/fATPL matters not a flaming jot.

Whether MPL has safety concerns or not is a totally different question - but one you could address relatively easily by going and doing some PPL flying alongside the day job to gain those skills - indeed OAA may even offer/allow the opportunity to add the PPL skills test to the single engine flying you will do...

My view = Go for the interview, if you don't get offered it, it's no longer a problem, if you do get offered a place on the scheme, you can make a decision - but if it was me I would seriously consider there are plenty out there without a licence and no offer who would think you daft to turn your nose up. Me included.

[MVE]

Do some PPL flying to gain those skills. What nonsense!, the MPL is directed at flying airliners and airline SOP's, the current Frozen ATPL is aimed at a single pilot, flying a twin, having planned the route themselves, filed the flightplan themselves and generally doing everything else that needs doing to operate that twin legally. Much of the course is sod all use to an airline pilot but very useful for someone wanting to manually plot and fly a great circle over the poles in a non-airliner!

The MPL will be no less safe and much, much more relevant to flying airliners. The general handling skills (relevant to airliners) will be there still. If you want to fly singles or light twins then don't do an AIRLINE transport pilots license, simple.

[Adios]

1. How many recent Airliner crashes happened because the FO didn't have highly polished single or twin piston engined, single pilot manual handling skills?

2. How many recent General Aviation crashes happened to people with 1000s of hours in piston engine airplanes?

The answer to 1 is few and the answer to 2 is too many. Single pilot light GA handling skills are worth :mad: all to an airline pilot compared to good CRM skills and shed loads of hours in GA aircraft without adequate training is worth :mad: all to the GA pilot.

Airliners crash more often than not because the crew doesn't handle a threat to the flight properly. Captain Sullenberger and his crew handled the most extreme threat exceedingly well and everyone walked or swam away. If you think an extra 70 hours of single and twin piston time will keep airliners from crashing, then you are gullible enough to buy oceanfront property in Arizona.

I can't guarantee that a newly trained MPL FO will be able to handle an airliner on a cold dark night when thunderstorms flare up and the Captain croaks from a heart attack leaving the wide eyed newbie to sort it out by him or her self. I doubt that CPL/IR vs. MPL would make much difference in such a situation anyway.

The point is that highly experienced crews screw things up all too frequently and die because of it and well trained teams prevent countless mishaps that we never hear about. MPL is one of the better recent attempts to start introducing the skills that will actually help two functioning crew members handle threats and errors more appropriately at an early stage o ftheir training. MPL may not help a newbie whose Captain croaks, but I can't think of an accident in recent history where that scenario left a smoking hole in the ground, so the argument is pretty much a red herring anyway if you ask me. The Dash 8 that stalled, crashed and burned, killing everyone aboard recently while the crew bantered about their lack of training to handle icing conditions reveals an extreme lack of CRM and TEM skills. It's too bad that a flybe and FTE or OAA MPL trained crew wasn't flying that one! What do you want to bet that was a crew who slogged their way up the long, slow US path to a regional carrier? Loads of piston single time did them and their passengers :mad: all good!

[Groundloop]

as for the MPL, also plenty of info on here from experienced crew (most saying its a danger to aviation safety!)

That's because most of them have spouted off without bothering to properly research the subject.

new pilots from this course will never know what they'll do. Just push the right button at the right time...

As any Flybe graduates from this course will (eventually!) go on to the Q400 fleet, which has lots of manual flying, manually flown approaches etc, because of the route network, then they will do a lot more than "button pushing"!

[clanger32]

Not sure whether a couple of posts here were aimed at my previous post or not, but for the record, thought I should put some of my comments straight.

Personally, I doubt there will be much in it between a nice shiny new fATPL graduate and an MPL graduate in terms of capability. Capability, IMHO, is built up through operating your aircraft over a period of time and in different conditions. I have long stated I am dubious of the benefit of 100 hours in a PA28 in a desert environment, to the safe operation of a 747 in winter conditions. I rather suspect that the person who qualified with 200 hours and has spent the last 2000 on a (737/320) will be infinitely more prepared to deal with an emergency on that type, than someone who has 2000 hours as an FI and has just moved onto the type.

That said, there is a lot of merit in the argument put forward by WingoWango about development of capacity.

My only point in stating the MPL could (should they choose) progress their own PPL style flying on the side is that some people (NOT me) believe the MPL to be a lesser qualification BECAUSE of that lack of SEP/MEP flying. If a potential applicant to the MPL scheme was concerned that they may be disadvantaged by this, then it's fairly easy to address.

Personally, if I were starting again now, I would have a few reservations about the MPL, but wouldn't hesitate to go for this scheme. FlyBe are a good, strong, stable company who I don't see going anywhere anytime soon. Once you get past 1500 hours, it's an ATPL anyway....so irrelevant.

[Adios]

WingoWango,

There is a lot of research indicating that pilots under stress revert to their early training instinctively. All that capacity built up flying single pilot will crop back up and possibly interfere as the SPA trained pilot fights the urge to go it alone and not utilize the other half of his team. I imagine this tendency will reduce over time and be gone by 2000 hours or so if the SPA trained pilot flies in a very disciplined multi-crew environment. If they fly in a cowboy environment all bets are off as to whether they ever lose the go it alone, maverick tendencies.

Capacity is largely a function of intelligence, reflexes, perception through the five senses (I shouldn't discount the sixth one either), speed of thought processing, etc. It can also be degraded by aging effects, alcohol, fatigue, obesity, smoking, lack of exercise, poor diet, etc. The age degradation is usually compensated for by wisdom and experience.

Capacity therefore is mostly innate and can be degraded by poor lifestyle decisions. Some people have it an some people don't. It can be improved if one has enough to start with. We may never know if one training method improves it more than the other and we surely won't if MPL is never implemented.

[Celtic Pilot]

Adios

'The age degradation is usually compensated for by wisdom and experience.'


One believes you have taken this from the Bristol Question bank!!!!

You have a good arguement with your post!!!!!

[Adios]

That's scary, to think I write like a JAA exam question creator!

Nope. I've never seen the BGS question bank. Maybe that's corroboration of the point if it's in there though.

[shaun ryder]

[QUOTE] rather suspect that the person who qualified with 200 hours and has spent the last 2000 on a (737/320) will be infinitely more prepared to deal with an emergency on that type, than someone who has 2000 hours as an FI and has just moved onto the type. /QUOTE]

Good observation that.

On the other hand try this. The person with 2000hrs FI/ air taxi/ multi instruction etc versus the 200hr wannabee. Well you work it out, I know from experience that after being a flying instructor both PPL and CPL, flying air taxi and survey single pilot. Bringing this type of experience into the flight deck is a damn sight more useful than what the 200hr cock sure wannabee can offer.

[QUOTE]. Single pilot light GA handling skills are worth :mad: all to an airline pilot compared to good CRM skills and shed loads of hours in GA aircraft without adequate training is worth fook all to the GA pilot./QUOTE]

Obviously a biased view, I take it that you have an empty log book then. Whether you have zero MP time or whatever the MPL gives you when you join a company. CRM in a real flight deck will be somewhat different from horsing around with your chums in a sim at flight school playing airline pilot. For what its worth its no big deal, people seem to learn sops quick and as a rule have good crm. Try flying an NDB let down on your own in a twin for real sometime.

As for the "go it alone" and "maverick tendencies"? I have to disagree, most of us come from a GA or military background, both indicative of single pilot flying. Emergency drills are well rehearsed both in the flight deck and in the sim. Every six months you have to reach the minimum standard. SOPs dont cover every situation, sometimes you have to be able to think outside the loop (airmanship). Something that can only be gained by flying aeroplanes alot.

[jksamra]

once again, thanks for all the comments, it's good to hear all the different opinions...

day 1 of the assessment is tuesday, so wish me luck, i'll post how it all goes...

[dartagnan]

you will be OK, as long you have the $$$$$...!!!!!!!!:E
this is what they want see, students with deeeep pockets!

it's amazing to see how this whole aviation market turn around money!it's going to hurt very soon!:ouch:

[jksamra]

thats the thing i wish i had the money!!
i need the loan...so maybe i won't be ok!...it does take the :mad:!!

[clanger32]

Well, well, well, Shaun, we meet again.

Actually, not a bad post - without wishing to be patronising.

The one point I HAVE to pick up on though is your comparison of the 2000hr GA pilot to the 200 hour newbie. Of course....OF COURSE...the 2000 hour pilot is going to be infinitely more capable on the flight deck of whatever type than the 200 hour newbie. But then you're not even close to comparing apples with apples.

To illustrate this, if we accept that - via whatever route you choose to train (it really is irrelevant here), you will have somewhere between 200 and 300 hours when you gain your professional licences, then to get to 2000 hours total time you need to be flying pretty much your max legal hours for two years AFTER finishing. What you are therefore doing is comparing someone with 2 years professional flying with someone who's only just got the licence. Not really a like for like comparison...and certainly you could apply it to any walk of life. A sparky with two years experience vs one that's just finished their apprenticeship? A 17 year old that's just past their driving test vs someone that's been driving for 2 years? All have obvious winners, but none are indicative of anything other than an experience gap.

The fairer comparison is between two people who both finish on the same date in the same year, one who goes directly to the RHS and one who goes the GA route. When they BOTH have 2000 hours, who would you rather be flown by? Really?

I'm not decrying the GA route - I honestly do think that it probably offers more "fun" flying than you'll get in the airlines, but the fact is that my cynicism remains as to whether 2000 hours Single pilot in an SEP is anything like as much value as 2000 hours on the type you're flying, in the way you're expected to operate it...

[manika]

:D:D:D:D:ok::ok::ok::ok:its just a basic psychics like GCSE .however, u nee d to be prepared

[Groundloop]

just a basic psychics

Is that basic psychology or basic paranormal?:ok:

[Lew747]

Anyone have the Oxford/Flybe MPL assessment on the 8th/9th of June just gone? How did you find it? What they get you doing?

[lazy george]

Yeah pal i had it this week. Its ok, a bit tough at times and the standard is higher than it is to get on the APPFO integrated course. Out of 16 in a group only 3 of us got told we may have a chance, the rest got told they would not be going any further. Has any one else been told the same who's lurking on here??

The tasks they had us doing are pretty much the standard team building, discussions and aptitude tests. Nothing too taxing and a very relaxed interview with 2 current pilots followed.

[gabino86]

Yeah I was told the same! Actually one of the managers told me that they received around 200 applications of which less than half were chosen. So I guess the groups are halved at each stage so going on that roughly 25 applicants will get to stage 3.

I had the assessment on 8th/9th. Of the twelve on Day 1, six of us got through to Day 2. I was told at the de-brief that one of the tests I did on day 1 could be my downfall in getting to stage 3 but it was far to early to say! At least there was no messing around and they were straight down the middle! Fingers crossed though...!!

[lazy george]

Gabino, did they give you an overall score?? I got 78 but not sure what it was out of. Another chap got 69 and he was borderline so they told him:bored:

[lazy george]

Did anyone else get told they have made stage 4 today??

[FlapsFive]

Well I don't know about you, Lazy George, but I'm through to the final round, aka stage 3.

Which day/time did you choose?

FF

[Adios]

Another chap got 69

Lucky batard! Maybe it's worth £195 after all.