Emirates Reality

[Ticlak]

Pilots of Emirates have been confronted with the crucial reality of Emirates Airlines.
It is not a secret, that the international business experience with local business partners in the Middle East i.e. Dubai turned to be unreliable and often had been shaded by fraud.
In the last few years Emirates Airlines had recruited over 1500 pilots. As the Middle East is not a favorable working environment compared to the developed world, some attractive offers must been promised by Emirates to give up a natural- and cultural healthy way of life.
Emirates promised:
·Excellent carrier development
·Excellent health insurance package, free for the pilot
·Free Villa for families or Apartments including Utility Costs
·Guaranteed Salary packages, min 3% increase per year, attractive paid overtime, changes of a profit share – as the company is making profit every years since 1988
·Excellent school system, company supports family needs.

Pilots resigned from their companies and the stagnating market with some Chapter 11 case in the US and bankruptcies in Canada and other countries helped Emirates to fill up the pilot pool.
The economical crises starting 2008 had been forecasted already 2006. Especially Dubai driven by greed under control of the Maktoum Family ended up being bankruptcy.
Only one example, thousands of suppliers to Nakheel, a Government owned Company, have not been paid for their trust into the State, and ended up in being shut down, in dept, lost their Visas, expelled. That´s the way the Government solves their problems.
In the last years Emirates Airlines at least seemed to be different:
Phase I: The top management British, all secondary key positions were carried out by experienced Expatriates, many British, Australian, South African. One representative National - Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum - as Chairman.
Phase II: Establishment of a solid, competitive, respected carrier: recruitment of experienced international employees; Building up of an experienced, high qualified pilot pool, able to develop and establish own training capacities.
Phase III: Establishment of training facilities to recruit and train national students.
Phase IV: Replacement of Expatriates A) in key positions B) in the pilot pool by Nationals.

Emirates Airline has reached Phase IV A: In the last 4 years more and more key positions well carried out by Expatriates have been replaced by Nationals. The Expatriate had been moved into the second row, still doing all the work. The National becomes the official decision maker.
Result: an overweighed and inefficient management structure, national decision makers in positions of Senior Vice Presidents, Chief Pilots, Technical Pilots, with low competence, low experience often no experience but Emirates Airline.
This luxury costs money, lots of money, very often to recover from wrong decisions made but not losing the face. Additional millions are invested to pay for a good reputation; advertisement; expensive sponsoring of sport teams. One goal is vital important for Emirates regardless of the costs: Emirates Reputation, a glamorous appearance of Emirates to the outside world!
Now Emirates needs to fill up their cash reserves. The Airline as Dubai Government cannot survive anymore without Abu Dhabi money.
The Reality for the pilots:
·The promised Villa might be a dream for many months, by that time you will be temporary squeezed into a 2 bedroom apartment surrounded 24 hrs by construction noise. Some colleges have to live like that more than 8 month, wife’s left – fed up by all the lies about Dubai.
·Your command training might take 5 to 7 years
·The contract negotiated yearly 3% salary increase, as reward for your seniority and inflations, has just been taken away by a so named “contract adjustment later” of course without talking to you, your understanding is expected.
·The contract negotiated free housing and utility costs just taken away by a memo letter.
·More and more aircraft on the line with major technical issues. Emirates maintenance are saving cost by rotating defect parts between aircraft instead of replacing them, in the extreme: technical logbooks will be signed off with false entries to safe the operation!
Cristal Clear: Emirates is betraying and squeezing their employees. The Airline relies on their power in their country were you as an expatriate basically have no rights.
The attempt to make pilots pay for their water and electricity costs demonstrates how immoral the company actually is: Emirates excuses the cost transfer with the argument to safe energy costs for the Government. The villas pilots are living in, are of a poor construction quality, no proper insulation against the outside heat, cheap, inefficient air condition systems.
The government owns the water and electricity production. Nationals are not paying for water and only a quarter of the expat price for electricity. Now the expatriate pilots will be squeezed with the expatriate rate to fill up Emirates cash reserves. How immoral an impudent is that!
Emirates became an unsafe airline. Extreme fatigue is constantly ignored and considered to be a low risk factor. Local GCAA regulations are undermined, maximum duty times ignored – it is all possible, because the chairman of the GCAA is Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum as well.
Thousands of Emirates pilots are ready to leave, desperately waiting for the economical recovery in the Airline business.
One is for sure! Stay away from Emirates! Find contact to Emirates pilots they will tell you the real truth.
Once Emirates was one of the greatest companies, but that times are gone, over - a nightmare is the reality! :=

[Fart Master]

Swish.... what do you think....duh

[Desert Diner]

All you, EK drivers, chicken or too tired to comment?!

I think they may still be trying to read the whole thing!

[concordino]

Thousands of Emirates pilots are ready to leave

EK has about 2000-3000 pilots, i find it difficult to imagine that Thousands are ready to leave.

The Expatriate had been moved into the second row, still doing all the work.

If the pay has been maintained with the same level of responsability, it is only natural to assume local people would want to run their airline.

Otherwise ,a pretty good Analysis. Maybe another Expat Brainstorm is needed to ease the stagnation that is affecting EK.

[a345xxx]

I swear last I checked the majority of senior management whether in Flt Ops or in the company was still held by foreigners! I may be wrong though maybe Tim Clarke is an Emiraeti?(hope i spelt that right)

[K-lango]

Can someone explain how the travel benefits work in Emirates? I would love to work for them sometime soon, but will also like to go visit my family back home on my days off or visit some other country. Will aprecciate all the feedback you can bring...

Thanks!

[fatbus]

Staff travel is not cheap, if it was you would never get a seat because @20000 of EK employees have a very large number of family members from the sub continent that would fill every seat .

As far as Ticlak goes, as much as EK pilots are not happy at the moment ,you need to get your facts rights, if you are an EK pilot then you need to read the small print in the employee manual,

[troff]

K-lango,
"...will also like to go visit my family back home on my days off" :}:}:}
You're kidding, right?
Sorry buddy, only if the family lives in Fujarah, Al-Ain, or RAK will you see them on days off...
T

[Panther 88]

troff is right. Haven't seen my family and friends since mid March. But I did get three days off in a row in June.:}

[CheikhUR6]

wouhaou .....picture is not good .....
What if I am supposed to join EK soon , single F/O ?
Golf green are expensive ??

[Dixons Cider]

It happend to Gulf Air
It is happening to Emirates
It will happen to Etihad and Qatar

[captainsmiffy]

...what a wonderful handle! Sorry for the thread drifting but 'Dixon Cider'....fantastic!!

[Dixons Cider]

like a bit of the old cider from time to time! :ok:

[Fubaliera]

Who ever started this forum believes only white people can run an airline. Brits,Aussies and south africans...hmmmmmmm. It will be intersting too see who will be on top in the next five years in the middle east.

[6000PIC]

In my opinion , whether the management is white Europeans , local Emirati or whoever , as long as they are professional , capable , and fair they should be allowed to run the airline. Hire the best.... screw the rest. Placing an individual in a management position because of what we see on the outside versus what`s inside their heads can only lead to failure.

[ATSU]

Fubaileri's comment got me misty eyed for the days of the old CBC and the former FMAB Mr. LL. Wasn't European, Australian or (white) South African and was definitely not white. I mention the old CBC because LL used to have 1 or 2 days a week in which he worked out an office there and the door remained firmly open. In the new HQ there is a notice outside the offices of Flt. Ops. mgmt stating that unless you have an appointment you are not allowed to speak to the managers - I think it's because they're really really busy umm managing!

[Desert Diner]

What you need is people who know what they are doing to hire other people who know what they should be doing. Something not that apparent in the ME.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

I met LL recently. You will be happy to hear that he is going extremely strong and enjoying his retirement. He just pulled a muscle while teaching his daughter the guitar ;)

[Instant Hooligan]

There will be an exodux!!! Good friend interviewed recently with KAL and 6 EK F/O were in his interview group, if that doesn't say the state of affairs at EK then good luck to new joiners!

[Wiley]

Since he's been gone long enough AND I've only ever heard one man voice any form of complaint against him (*see below), I see no reason why we shouldn't stretch the Pprune rules just a little and name a man who, black as the ace of spades, was one of the most capable and agreeable managers I've ever had the pleasure of working with - Leroy Lindsay.

Leroy, you're sadly and greatly missed in the Sandpit, but I suspect you're glad to be gone, as I don't think you'd like working as an EK manager under the present 'rools'.

(*The exception that proves the rule was a particularly humourless training manager who once said that Leroy was 'hopeless' in his job - because he put too much effort into looking after the interests of the pilots. I'd have to say that Leroy should plead guilty to that charge.)

I must say that the assistant to the FMB, female (but white), goes close to filling Leroy's shoes.

[fatbus]

I H,
what would you consider an exodus ? Right now EK would love to get rid of 100+ surplus pilots. TC said he did not want to let anyone go. If you know anyone in recruitment you would also know that the number of CV's is endless, hence the company motto " take it or leave it". It was also mentioned at a meeting that NO airline right now is looking at a large number of pilot intake. But good luck to the 6 brave FO's going to KAL, I'm sure they were promised an upgrade as well.

[trimotor]

Ticlac said:
"Local GCAA regulations are undermined, maximum duty times ignored – it is all possible, because the chairman of the GCAA is Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum as well."

Not true. For once, can people get it into their heads that Shk A is not the head of the regulatory authority - he is the Cjairman of Ek and the head of what is effectively the airport company - it's just that thr names are similar. Do you seriously think that the FAA would have allowed EK access to the USA if there was such a conflict of interest? No...

[AMF]

What's the suprise in any of this? EK is a non-unionized, crony-run National Airline for what is essentially a middle east Company Town built on hype and quasi-slave labor.

Pilots have gone there accepting lower-wages, less time-off, and ridiculous scheduling/commuting rules than would be found elsewhere flying the same equipment for the sake of flying the equipment and/or the facade and trappings of a good lifestyle, yet none of the fundamentals of a good lifestyle exist there. And they go with no bargaining power to improve their lot, and none to ever be allowed in the future.

With that 1,000 pound gorrilla on it's back, I've never understood why anyone would fool themselves into thinking it's anything more than somewhere to build some time while looking for another job.

[Instant Hooligan]

FB,
Not an exodus now, but when things turn. If EK f/o's are going to KAL of all places at this time I'm sure you can imagine what will happen when the cycle swings up. EK will at that point be needing the pilots like everywhere else.

[Edforce1]

Not true. For once, can people get it into their heads that Shk A is not the head of the regulatory authority - he is the Cjairman of Ek and the head of what is effectively the airport company - it's just that thr names are similar. Do you seriously think that the FAA would have allowed EK access to the USA if there was such a conflict of interest? No...You're kidding, right??? HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al Maktoum, IS the President of Dubai Civil Aviation Authority and Chairman of Dubai Airports !!!

ps - I have taken the bait if you're trying to wind some ppl up !! :rolleyes:

[fatbus]

Ed , yes the DCAA not the GCAA, big difference. It's just asign that you are not from here or you dont know your facts. This gets brought up every 6-12 months by someone that does not bother to check for themselves.

IH, as much as I would love to see an exodus when things pick up , dont see EK being effected that much, we had lot leave a couple of years ago. If anything thats when the pay went up, so if that was to happen I say bring it and good luck to those that leave, might just see you there(where ever there is)

[Edforce1]

Apologies !
Hit the enter button too fast !!
My mistake !

[EKASR mute]

It is with sadness that the truth of one of our EK colleagues departure (the MAN FO) has been clouded in a fog of mystery which has come out of the recent pilot meetings, the mystery of course is the common belief that he has been reinstated. This is not the case at all !! A few facts need to be looked at to understand where this information has come from.

The ASR was filed and some manager in EK took it upon themselves to get involved because the GA made a small airing in the local press. The Tower did not file against the crew for the GA.

The MAN flight in question was his before line check and a few days later he successfully went on to pass his final L/C. After this he was grounded pending the investigation into the G/A at MAN. He was dismissed following the short investigation along with the TC involved. The FO went for a review of the decision, as he was following the directions of the TC which were of a safe nature. The FO felt that the accusation of gross negligence, as stated by the company, was unjustified as he was under training.

At last week’s pilot threat meeting that I was fortunate enough to attend, the question was asked to talking horse regarding the FO under training on the MAN flight, his response was; “the case is still under review.” He knows damn well that the FO has been fired, he was the one that handed him the termination letter at the review meeting and he has lied through his teeth at this and other pilot meetings whenever asked. From the latest FCI2009-051 Company Regulations;
1.2 Employees are expected to:
Act with courtesy, integrity, honesty and professionalism when dealing with customers, colleagues, suppliers and passengers, whether on or off duty.

Obviously management think they are exempt this company regulation, but why would you believe a word they say after this. The FO leaves the sandpit within the next 2 weeks to a life that has been turned entirely upside down for him and his family. His friends and colleagues who know him are completely stunned by the actions of Emirates and would like all to be made aware, particularly new joiners, if you come here then make sure you have a backup plan because when they want you out, you will not have a leg to stand on. The management will use any silly excuse under training (or testing as is the recognised process now, actually anytime for that fact) to terminate you whilst clouding that decision in mystery as to whether you have been terminated or not, just to deflect flak and make themselves look competent. Shame on you EK management :=:=:=:=

[captainsmiffy]

......'Dixons cider'! Still laughing!

[SIUYA]

LR 3.........

GREAT post! :}

So..........what's it to be? League, Union or AFL?

At the moment I'd say your notions of a warm beer at the footy would pretty much preclude you being at an AFL match, particularly where I'm living! Cold pies 'yes'...........warm beers 'NO'.

All it took me was about 3.8 seconds after I settled here to appreciate the 'no f**kin dust' aspect, and that my life had finally returned to normal!

I have to tell you it was a really special day for me when I signed off for the last time, knew I had all the loose ends tied-up (bank account closed, exit visa in place etc etc), all my stuff was already sent home through DHL, I had a confirmed booking on a flight out of the bl00dy place that night, and then finally realising it was all happening as we lifted-off, and knowing that no-one where I worked had a clue that I'd just left.....forever!! :)

Your comment:

And still people want to come here and fly [work??] for these cretins.
is sooooo true.

And after all that's written here on PPRuNe you really have to wonder WHY? :ugh:

[SunNFun]

I can second that, most guys I've talked to have pretty much made their minds up, and plan on leaving as soon as the job market opens up. Me included. Won't be too long, esp. once the age 65 mandated retirements start.

Thing is though, management thinks that they will still get tons of applications when they're going to start hiring again, but I think that currently only real desperate people will come (and I can understand that, been there done that), but in the future it will be increasingly difficult because I think they have shown their true face and people will remember that.

The only people that are still somewhat happy right now are those that came from third world carriers/countries, but even they get pi$$ed off eventually.

My $0.02

[Marooned]

And there's the irony; when EK start recruiting so will everyone else... but Q: who has the pool of most experienced Airbus/Boeing pilots looking for work? A: Emirates.

FUEK.

[SIUYA]

Marooned....

FUEK :D

Sounds right on the money from what I continue to read here.

In my case it was FUQR (and that's probably the most appropriate way to describe the management of that particular outfit, I can tell you). :ugh:

[ironbutt57]

Like the title of the thread..."reality" speaks volumes...welcome to the airline life...:{

[parabellum]

The only people that are still somewhat happy right now are those that came from third world carriers/countries, but even they get pi$$ed off eventually.



Very true, but as what they would have in EK is better than what they get in India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Ethiopia/ Ghana etc. etc. they will come and they will stay and there are hundreds if not thousands of them ready and waiting too. A captain in Indian Airlines joined GF as a B767 FO, he had accommodation, schooling, utilities allowance etc. etc. all better than in India and his salary, as an FO, was better than as a captain in India, under those circumstances it is amazing how much crap people will put up with, low profile, go to work, go home, don't get involved in politics and enjoy the money, go on leave to India etc. and buy more land! Takes them a very long time to get pissed off. If you can believe what they say just ask your HR department how many applications they have from the sub continent on file.

Lots of captains leave then lots of FOs get upgrades and forget their miserable past, lots of FOs leave and they get replaced by a tidal wave of pilots anxious to improve their lot and stay put living in conditions they could only dream of in their own country.

It is a fact of aviation life, management almost always win!

(No, not now or ever have I been management:)).

[NoJoke]

Is one allowed to say black or white?

Parrabellum; I understand your point. I have only 10 years to go, but think that things will only get better as long as we all understand the 'Management' strategies. I was a strong believer in the NSPA when I flew the 'big birds' on the North Sea. The same applies now, as it did then: We need to stick together.

I now fly an easier 'big bird' :ok:

[SunNFun]

Very true, but as what they would have in EK is better than what they get in India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Ethiopia/ Ghana etc. etc. they will come and they will stay and there are hundreds if not thousands of them ready and waiting too. A captain in Indian Airlines joined GF as a B767 FO, he had accommodation, schooling, utilities allowance etc. etc. all better than in India and his salary, as an FO, was better than as a captain in India, under those circumstances it is amazing how much crap people will put up with

But all this does is turn Emirates into another third world carrier. Do you honestly think that they will keep the same level of T&C going forward in that (or any) scenario? It's going to be a race to the bottom.

[ATSU]

Sun N Fun

Here we go again. For those of you that might not know I am going to take the opportunity to educate you. Only Europeans, Australians, Kiwis or white South Africans can operate aircraft to a so-called first world standard. If you are not from one of these centres of aviation excellence then you are a monkey and should be paid peanuts.

This is the attitude just below the surface at EK. Some of these superior aviators will happily take the job but then they make pernicious comments about their employers, (non-white) co-workers and passengers.

Let's be clear - Emirates is owned and run by Arabs and a large part of the revenue that the airline earns comes from Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans, Nigerians and yes Ghananians. You guys really need to get over yourselves and study history. The "white is right" fight has been fought and lost many times.

Or maybe you are just trying to re-invigorate that part of history in which your ancestors enriched themselves at the expense of what is now known as the third world.

ATSU

[NoJoke]

You forgot the British - God dam you. :}

[NoJoke]

It is a toss up who knew more or less; the crims, or the 'lesser' Nation. :}

[ATSU]

Oops - I thought I had encompassed the Brits under the European umbrella but so as to avoid even further thread creep - the Brits too!!!!!

[ferris]

ATSU; chip-on-the-shoulder-alert!!

Ahhh, the message I gleaned from sunNfun was that the terms and conditions at EK would become third-world, not the standards.

By all means, continue to misinterpret (and jump at those shadows) at your leisure.

[h3dxb]

Ahhh, the message I gleaned from sunNfun was that the terms and conditions at EK would become third-world, not the standards


Wrong. Only first world paid employees will perform first class service. Pay them 3rd world, U will have 3rd world. :ugh:

[ATSU]

Ferris

I read your post and then I re-read SunNFun's and Parabellum's. I woke up the wife to help me with the chip that appeared to be making walk with a limp. Was getting ready to apologise to them both - then H3DXB chimed in and suddenly I wasn't limping anymore.

ATSU

[three eighty]

ATSU your very accusations make you as guilty of the same "sin" as the other parties you are pointing fingers at. I am one of the nationalities you mention. You don't know me so are hardly qualified to make generalised comments about me or my nationality. Time to jump off the high horse buddy and stick to the original thread.

[ATSU]

380

Took a long breath before I responded to this.

The original thread dealt with EK reality - well part of the reality is the attitude displayed earlier by some of our colleagues.
If, as you say, you are from the 3rd world and you have no objections to Parabellum's, Ferris' and H3DXB's posts you either didn't read them or you have no objections to being paid less because of your passport.
Wasn't springing to your defense - you make the assumption that I'm not from the 3rd world. WRONG!

"Buddy" (WTF) you're right I don't know you - but clearly you don't know me.

ATSU

[pool]

Chip here, chip there .... the thread is called Emirates reality, so let's have reality work:
The reason guys from one "part" of the world work here in the first place, is because not enough could be found close in or from other "parts". For that reason the renumeration had to be attractive enough to lure them over here. Now that apparently sufficient and apparently adequately qualified guys can be attracted or trained from these other parts, and they even run over to the pit for less money, it is only logical that EK looks that way.
Only time will tell if this works and which chip is closer to the truth.
Simply wait and see.

[EGGW]

Guys you have made your points, lets leave it there, or the thread gets closed.

EGGW

[avayadot]

thanks ;-)

[skyvan]

Emirates reality is that if you want to reduce your Provident fund premiums for a while, your portion drops from 5 to 2,5%, while the companies will drop from 15 (or12) to 7,5%. If you want a payment holiday, you will save your portion, but EK saves all of theirs as well.

And it is painted as helping the employee! Sheesh!

Not that it matters too much, the funds have been performing like an ice cream stand in Red Square in January!

[White Knight]

Or alternatively like an ice-cream cone in Dubai in the summer:}

[5star]

Who would ever want to reduce his contribution? Since when would the company want to do us a favor? Sounds more like they are preparing something.
Get that vaseline ready.

[EGGW]

I warned you guys to stay on topic, I have deleted irrelevant posts. Do it again at your peril....

EGGW