Collision at YSBK

[el_capitano]

Does anyone have info about the collision between two aircraft at Bankstown Airport this evening...

[wheatbix]

Heard it was between two planes taxiing and they everyone ok

edit: SMH article here (http://www.smh.com.au/national/planes-collide-at-bankstown-airport-20090528-bosj.html)

[jasjammy]

Just saw the pics on channel 7 news. Looked like a Duchess and Cherokee.

[flying-spike]

"Would never happen in the states where all aircraft use different taxiways to approach the runway"

Glad they are all OK though

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Ladies and gents,

from quick news report duchess looks like Whitworths VH-JWW, warrior unsure but had similar colours to Whitworths VH-IMX.

All unconfirmed however

[Speedbird 9]

Can't seem to find any pictures or videos anywhere. I'm a student at Whitworth's and am very concerned as to what has happened. If anybody could confirm the aircraft involved it would be great.

[Feather #3]

My wife witnessed a car run into another in the carpark today and swine flu is overtaking Oz...is this a yet another beatup or what???:ugh:

G'day ;)

[tanglewood]

"I'm a student at Whitworth's and am very concerned as to what has happened."

Why? Taxi incident, no injuries, these things happen.

[Peter Fanelli]

"Would never happen in the states where all aircraft use different taxiways to approach the runway"


And every taxiway has a UNICOM.

:E

[Unhinged]

... and radar

[Flying Binghi]

I'm a student at Whitworth's and am very concerned as to what has happened. If anybody could confirm the aircraft involved it would be great

.......weeellll, if ya don't know whats happened, ya obviously not "friends or family" If you really are a student, you'll know the story tomorrow...:rolleyes:


In other breaking news, i seen a flying instructer walk across a taxiway today...there was no flashing light mounted on the instructers head - i think it be a safety issue. Should i make an issue of this matter ?

[MotionPotion]

Geez guys, why the hostility? Speedbird's just concerned about a fellow aviator, nothing wrong with that, no matter how big or small the incident. And as for tanglewood - "Why? Taxi incident, no injuries, these things happen."... if this is a regular occurence for u, then we all better steer clear of u on the taxiways...yikes and we haven't even gotten airborne yet!

Glad noone was hurt and all is well!

[Ultralights]

i remember some years ago, after a long night flight, returning to bankstown, taxiing back to the aircraft parking bay, the student in the front misjudged a u-turn, and hit a wingtip on the corner of a hangar, bent the last 3 ft of the wing up about 45 deg. the following day the telegraph reported an aircraft crashed on the runway the previous night..near disaster, aircraft destroyed, the usual BS.. and the pic in the story was the archer that we hit the hangar with!
it was the old Illawarra hangar at the time, so the aircraft was in full view of the public the next day.. :suspect:

[DickyPearse]

Certain posters above should get back in their box. The interest in the incident is not about being nosy, spreading rumours or the potential to sensationalise the incident in the press. It is about 'learning'. That is, why did the incident occur, what can we do to avoid a repeat in the future, is there a black spot where extra care is required, etc. You should learn from your own mistakes, but it is always better to learn from the mistakes of others :}

[mmhbtower]

the two aircraft were JWW and VFC and they were taxiing after landing not "approaching the RWY"

Why all the miss info?

The real worry is that emergency services took 13 minutes to attend since there are none based at BK !!!!!!

[Flying Binghi]

The interest in the incident is not about being nosy, spreading rumours or the potential to sensationalise the incident....

..................:hmm:

[bizzybody]

The offer has been put to BAL a few times from a range of civilian fire contract groups and has been hit on the head because they dont have 300,000 pax per year and therefore they dont need one (direct quote from BAL)

13 minutes from the time of incident or time of call?? big difference....

000 call was made for Ambos, they are sent, Ambo comms passes the information by phone onto NSWFB comms and Police....... tick tick tick (time ticking away)... Peak hour traffic.... tick tick tick (11 tonne fire brigade pumper is not the quickest thing in peak hour traffic)

I know that comment was not a dig at the external services but 13 minutes in peak hour traffic is probably not that bad and they may have been coming back from another job on the other side of town.

This really should be a wake up to BAL

[mmhbtower]

13 mins is from the time of hang up after the call. and thats not too bad it has been up to 20 mins on occasion.

Its not a dig at the services, its a dig at the government who promised a metropolitan/ARFF when they took the ARFF away, but of course they lied and we swallowed it!!!!

Its not the airports fault either there should be a requirment to provide services.

[Clearedtoreenter]

13 minutes from the time of incident or time of call?? big difference....


Not really... how long does it a take for an aircraft to burn to virtually nothing?

(Good job there was no fire then!)

[Jamair]

"How long does it take for an aircraft to burn to virtually nothing?"

VERY fast process - but can anyone cite an example where having an on-site ARFFS has actually saved lives in the context of an aircraft accident? Put some reality into the emotive discussion?

[Tankengine]

YBAF, I think 1981, RFF pulled 4 people out of a Bonanza in the swamp before they drowned!:ok:

[KRviator]

Strewth, I dunno what all the fuss is about...

Had cause to call 000 last week while driving along the Oxley Highway from Port Macquarie to Walcha.

Zero mobile coverage (using 000 and 112) and the payphone I tried had a bad mic. 90 minutes later, I finally get to a working payphone and can complete the call.

I shudder to think about what would have happened if it was a *real* emergency, with people requiring immediate assistance...

FWIW, the "emergency" was multiple minor and a couple of major landslides onto the road, a few fallen trees around blind corners a bit of minor flooding all with absolutely no notification of any hazards on the road. And yes, I'd have called the SES if I could have, but neither payphone accepted coins, so 000 was the next best option.

[rodmiller]

SES sandwich eating service

[bizzybody]

State Eating Service
there are a few for the other services but i wont bring them up

[LeadSled]

Folks,
The reason for the removal of ARFFS from almost all airports, except capital city primary airports, is quite simple, and well justified.

Prior to the removal, there had not been a survivable accident on an Australian airport, where ARFFS made any difference in terms of death or severity of injuries.

The record since has remained the same, in risk management terms, ARFFS has never been a deciding factor and is totally unjustified, and would add a huge cost to operators at places like YSBK.

As to "promises", all that was "promised" was that airport operators would have a local disaster plan, of which the local fire brigade would be part. Nobody broke any promises on this one, given the record, it would not have mattered if they had!

All the facts and figures are available. The current regulatory requirement is quite silly ( the last "review" of regulations being run by ex-fireys) cost/benefit and the record was ignored in a great leap backwards from rational rulemaking, the resulting cost of ARFFS at Ayers Rock, for example, is a significantly measurable proportion of a potential LCC's ticket costs.

Tootle pip!!

[mmhbtower]

Leadsled

I think you are wrong on this one. What was promised was a metropolitian fire and rescue service based on the airport to serve the community and the airport.

You seem to be focused on accident and fire only, I could sight many many examples in recent history where the ARFF have made a differance or could have if they were there.

Just two are

apr 2005 94 year old lady has a heart attack on a 737 about 30 miles to run HB ARFF saved her life i spoke to her two weeks later and still do shes 100 soon and sharper than you and me put together!!

Jan 2007 man in his 50's had heart problems/stroke after landing in a chieftian at BK abulance took 9 mins to arrive (not a dig at the ambos)

I can tell you of lots more but the point is that to look at it from a bean counters persective only is wrong in my opinion but thats what the world has come too.

cheers

[Ozgrade3]

So how much damage was done to the aircraft. How long will JWW be US for, going to affect a lot of guys IR renewals.

[Speedbird 9]

I've been told it needs a new engine, amongst other things, by one of the FIs.

[JCJ]

Warrior could be a right off, wing cut 2/3 of the way through. JWW has only minor engine cowl damage, and of course the engine strip down after the prop strike.

Happened at night with someone failing to give way.....:=

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

In other breaking news, i seen a flying instructer walk across a taxiway today...there was no flashing light mounted on the instructers head - i think it be a safety issue. Should i make an issue of this matter ?

ATC does. I got a VCA for this once..........Seriously.........:ouch:

[Flying Binghi]

ATC does. I got a VCA for this once..........Seriously

I'd probably just leave the flashing light on your head full time...you don't have to worry about forgetting it again....;)

[oneday_soon]

Sorry, slightly off topic. Does anyone know who besides Bill are grade one's that instruct at whitworths's, or is Bill the only one these days?

[kimwestt]

You reckon that there are no emergency services at BK? There is a fully operational division of the Ambulance Service on the airdrome. Can anybody tell us why they are not included in the emergency/disaster plan for the airport? And no, before you start, I am not an ambo.:ugh::mad:

[JCJ]

oneday soon,

There are 3 other Grade 1's, and a grade 2.

All good value IMHO.

Cheers

[coke drinker]

From what I learnt trying to track down an ambo to thank them personally, they only do air rescue. Or send out their vehicles when the choppers can't get there.

On another note the mass hysteria on the front page of this week's Bankstown Express is ridiculous.

[mmhbtower]

KW they are the air crew for CHC (rescue) and as to why they cant help out in an emerg at BK the answer is its too sensible it would never work.

[LeadSled]

mmhbtower,

Whatever "promises" somebody might have made, what we were/are talking about are ARFFS services provided (now) by Airservices, or , under current legislation, a CASA approved ARFFS service provider on airport.

The economic case for removal was overwhelming, and if you think about it, the several examples of LoL's having a heart attack actually help make the case.

We do not have inexhaustible resources, and somebody has to pay, would anybody suggest we should have an ambulance permanently based at every road accident black spot, waiting for the next collision?? Why are aircraft potential accidents treated differently to any other transport or industrial accident ??--- because they make great "sensational" stories that are a staple for the "popular" ( as in mindless) media.

Satisfying the "media news cycle" hardly provides a good basis for any kind of service provision, otherwise we would have a "control tower" to ' "control" all the "Cessna's"( including all those "Cessna's" made by Piper, Beech, et al) at every country airport, because, as you will be aware as a member of the "general public", all aircraft have to be "controlled".

As difficult as it may be for some to accept, and unpalatable to others, human life is not "priceless", indeed the Commonwealth publishes the monetary "value of life" for policy,planning and regulatory purposes. The emotional value of life is not a factor ( remember a criticism often leveled at this type of analysis: "---- knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing") and nor should it be

The monetary "value" of lives saved, as mentioned in previous posts, goes nowhere near equaling the cost of the ARFFS service, that is what cost/benefit decision making means.

ARFFS services are the nearest you will get to a cost that meets the definition of "economic waste" as I know, and that is exactly what the (then) BTRE so clearly established.

The BTRE study is a fascinating "expose' " of the costs and benefits (or all to frequently --- disbenefits) of a broad spectrum of transport safety regulation.

Top of the lists for savings were mandatory seatbelts for cars, and crash helmets for motor cycles ----- very low cost of compliance, low cost of enforcement, and really amazingly large savings ( a whole motor accident head and spinal injury ward is a major Sydney teaching hospital was shut down, within two years of the original seat belt rules in NSW--- due to reduction in demand) , both individual and societal.

ARFFS services were off the other end of the scale --- nil return, over many years, for their primary purpose, but large capital and ongoing costs.

At no stage was a quasi-substitute service ever a condition of the removal of (now AA) ARFFS airport services from all but the "international " airports (plus a couple of anomalies)

Tootle pip!!

PS; Whatever BTRE is now called has a free CD collection of all their studies, prior to all the studies available on the web site.

[DUXNUTZ]

Damn, Those Duchesses are endangered species these days!

[WIKI44]

LeadSled - "We do not have inexhaustible resources, and somebody has to pay, would anybody suggest we should have an ambulance permanently based at every road accident black spot, waiting for the next collision??"

I don't think that is a suitable comparison. We are talking about a defined area here, not thousands of kilometers of roads.

Even if having ARFFS is not economically viable, the rescue services folks in the airport should be included in the event of an accident, if they are available.

There was a recent accident where the outstation rescue services took 10-15 minutes to reach the injured occupant. Thankfully the injuries were minor, but the delay could have cost a life. Meanwhile, paramedics from the rescue choppers were a few hundred meters away and not involved at all.

The idea should be to maximize the use of the resources that are available, especially in a place like bankstown.

p.s. yes the poor duchies have been suffering as of late.

[Tinstaafl]

That study would be interesting reading, Leadslead. What was it called and when was it released? I've been on their website but damned if I can find it amongst the many.

[mmhbtower]

LeadSled

You have missed the point completely. You are obviously just trying to stir and you have picked my opinion as the target.

You seem to think i have somthing to do with the news media, wrong again.

Let me put it this way, I dont give a toss about your dollars only opinion and I fancy you feel the same way about me. So what!

bye.

[mmhbtower]

The BK express what a great read they quote 360000 movements last year does any body remember the 80's when BK recorded 450000

[kimwestt]

Hi -- if you head further round toward the tower, you will notice NSW Ambo's have a property there, (just near the roundabout). They are not connected with the Rescue Choppers, but are a conventional, fully equipped road going ambos and crews- - and, wait for it - - - ready to go. So when is BAL going to extract their head from that dark place, and put those ambos into the emergency plan??:ugh:

[coke drinker]

Kimwestt...I'll repeat what I said earlier. Those guys are a backup rescue team only used if the choppers can't get somewhere. I had that from the mouth of one of the paramedics there. Don't blame BAL...blame the Rees government for their idiocy.

[bizzybody]

It has nothing to do with BAL

The Ambulance service have their own internal protocols for different incidents

The Fire Brigade have their own protocols for different incedents.

The Police................... im sure they know what they are doing :confused:

It comes from a much hire power than BAL