When will the pilots in this forum learn to share with FA's?

[Flying Solo]

Ok, so you have so share two lines of space with FA's on this area of the Forum... GET OVER IT!

If you dont want to know what we are saying, then dont read it.. we are not forcing you to!

Why cant we all get along?

I dont open a thread about missed approach and start groaning because i just wasted 1 min of my time.

Some pilots might be interested what is happening behind the flight deck door... if you are not one of them, then keep the door shut!

I know this thread will possibly be shut down by Mods, however i hope it is not.

I am not yelling, angry or causing trouble, just wishing we could get along, and share a little.

Yes i know some QF crew can be highly annoying, which has popped us over to this section, however if maybe the mods and delete them as soon as they start, we might be able to get back to some sanity.:rolleyes:

Enjoy your afternoon all

[Keg]

So let me get this right.

Why cant we all get along?

I am not yelling, angry or causing trouble, just wishing we could get along, and share a little.

So let's look at the examples of sharing.

GET OVER IT!

Some pilots might be interested what is happening behind the flight deck door... if you are not one of them, then keep the door shut!

Enjoy your afternoon all

Lol. I'm sure that we'll have a great afternoon having been told to 'get over it' and to keep the door shut if we're not of the correct disposition! :eek: :}

[Bazzamundi]

RIP to the dunnunda section of Pprune. Once a source of info, but now dominated by childish ranting at any mention of QF.

Bye from me.

[Square Bear]

Um, dont you already have two PPRuNE forums.....Cabin Crew and Cabin Crew Wannabes.

Are you saying that is not enough for you?:=

[Flying Solo]

and you thought cabin crew were catty!

oh well i was trying to make us all get along..

[Square Bear]

No, not catty at all.....just educating you in the facts of PPRuNe and helping you navigate to your correct forum. :)

[Flying Solo]

and we would love to be in that forum, if some QF Crew didn't abuse it.. so lets just get along :D:D:D:D:D

[YoDawg]

GET OVER IT!.....keep the door shut!....just wishing we could get along,

Nicely said.


Yes i know some QF crew can be highly annoying, which has popped us over to this section.......we would love to be in that forum, if some QF Crew didn't abuse it

I think the point might be that the behaviour of the QF crew has seen them thrown out of the proper places for all cabin which is either of the two CC forums.

Because QF is Australian, you were dumped here and now we have to put up with the garbage instead of the CC of the rest of the world. In other words, the rest of the CC world threw you out!

And the DGP mods now have to endure what the international CC mods refused to put up with anymore.

"Some" QF crew??? It was obviously enough crew making enough trouble to tar you all with the same brush.

Why the DGP mods don't show a little backbone and send the cabin back to their rightful place I do not know. Orders from above I suppose.

[A Comfy Chair]

oh well i was trying to make us all get along..

When will the pilots in this forum learn to share with FA's?
Ok, so you have so share two lines of space with FA's on this area of the Forum... GET OVER IT!


Yes, thats really trying to make people get along.

And you wonder why the some pilots get upset when "their" forum is chosen as the place to host the threads that the other forum moderators believe are unacceptable.

[Flying Solo]

My first post was written with a different tone and inflection that you can get from reading it. If you want to pick it apart, be my guest, the gist of it however was not of malice.

Our issues are your issues.. we have bad moral at work, it doesn't help any of us. same with pilots. when there is large issue with you, we take an interest.

Read our threads if you choose, comment and get a feel of the pressure and worry we have of job security at the moment. This is the only place we can speak out, without management breathing down our necks.

Your support would be welcomed, here and at work. :ok:

[jungle juice]

I agree with you Keg in that Flying Solo seems to be lacking in the area of diplomacy and could have phrased his/her post with more care and thought.

However, at the same time he/she does have a point which seems to escape some pilots on PPrune.

The D&G section of PPrune is titled:
An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.
yet one person here describes this area as"their" forum
It has been posted before that 'ALL ASPECTS' of aviation does not begin and end with the flight deck.
There are people here who are not pilots or cabin crew and yet are not asked why they are here.

It has been said that some cabin crew argue incessantly yet if you look at the thread on John Howard and his comments regarding Work Choices you will see examples of heated discussion.

Flying Solo is right in that if you are a pilot and see a thread on some cabin crew related topic you don't have to open and read it unless you want to.

[Flying Solo]

Thank You Jungle Juice, i felt like i was swimming up stream!

[YoDawg]

An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.

Why aren't these descriptions more applicable?

The other half of the airborne team who put up with the self-loading freight. (http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew-131/)

This forum is for ALL those people who are interested in becoming Cabin Crew but have no prior experience. (http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew-wannabes-130/)




As an alternative, in this site Cabincrew.com (http://www.cabincrew.com/ccnetwork/default.asp) which is dedicated to cabin - no pilots allowed - you can find all those topics you need to know about including, "discounts", "HOW DO I COMPLAIN", "cabin crew or flight attendant", "shoes", "having a baby", "manners", etc etc etc.

Enjoy!

[Obie]

...and, did you get the age of our friendly (?) F/A? :ok:

Not your Mum is it Keg? :ok:

[ZackQF]

Obie, thats harsh, what does it matter wat age they are, if it is even their real age

[jungle juice]

Similarly YoDawg,

If you want to be in a pilot only area you could always post your threads in the
Flight Deck Forums section at the top of PPrune.

We are happy to have pilots here so I'm not sure why the feeling is not reciprocal.
I'm curious where abouts in 'ALL ASPECTS' of aviation do you find or think that only pilots exist?

The next time you walk through a terminal look around and see how many other occupations you can see.

In the D&G section you will find a travel agent,engineers,office people etc..

[Flying Solo]

I love that you can stoop low enough to take a dig at my age.. is that because you actually agree with what i am saying, hence have nothing else to say on the actual topic.

I was just reading about the LAME CNS positions under threat.. Should i ask why they are on this forum?

[blueloo]

'm curious where abouts in 'ALL ASPECTS' of aviation do you find or think that only pilots exist?

Hey look I don't disagree with this, and more often than not I enjoy reading some of the sensible Cabin Crew postings...... but, and its a big Butttttt mind you - Professional Pilots Rumour Network - not professional Cabin Crew Rumour Network...


So you can see how some may get irked, when you guys have behaved badly in your dedicated play area, you get kicked out, then you come here and play badly too.

[amos2]

Hey! That's a bit rough Obie, suggesting that Solo might be Kegs Mum! :=

His Auntie perhaps, but not his mum! :=

[Flying Solo]

And like i stated BlueLoo, that not all CC that post here are playing bad. We REALLY dont want to be in D&G. But are happy that you are hosting us for the moment

Also look at Obie (http://www.pprune.org/members/89910-obie)'s comment about my age.. seems both sides play bad at times

[Angle of Attack]

I was just reading about the LAME CNS positions under threat.. Should i ask why they are on this forum?

You cannot compare LAME'S with cabin crew at all, enough said, they require years and years of training to be qualified.

[Flying Solo]

Who cares AOA they are not pilots, hence they shouldn't be here... just using the view of your peers

[jungle juice]

I'm yet to see any substantive argument put forward by a pilot.
Blueloo is the latest and the best he can do is point out that PPrune stands for professional pilots.
As I pointed out this is for 'ALL' aspects of aviation and that means not just the flight deck.
As has been pointed out there are engineers here and does this mean they should be booted out?
It is true that some cabin crew behave poorly but then so do some pilots.
If you look at the John Howard thread and some of the Jetstar related threads you will see some very angry people and some have been sinbinned.
Is that OK because they are pilots?
You cannot compare LAME'S with cabin crew at all, enough said, they require years and years of training to be qualified.
C'Mon AOA,tell us what you are really saying?

[NAMD]

Because engineers comply with at least one of the P's in Pprune and you guys, judging by this whingy, completely pointless and antagonistic thread do not? :{

IBTL.

[The Green Goblin]

The difference is pilots value the opinion of the lames we deal with day to day and consider they are an invaluable resource in our workplace. Sadly the same can not be said for many cc as they more often than not have a poor understanding of what we do and resent the difference in our payscale.

[Eclan]

Hello Jungle Juice. It's possible you only see what yuo want to see. The other sub-forums include specialised areas for just about everyone involved in aviation includikng the cabin crew. IIRC, the description of the DG&P forums was changed a while back to cover the QF girls who were eased (thrown) out of the CC forum by the moderators there who'd had enough of the bitching and unpleasantness.

Despite there being special areas for them, the travel agent, LAMEs and others were NOT thrown out of those other areas and sent here so as not to be a pain in the arses of other mods, so in their cases no one really minds. Do you get it? DG&P has become a repository for the misfits of the cabin crew forums, against the wishes of the DG&P members, it seems.

Flying Solo, the LAMEs are welcome here because they are constructive and professional. Can you see the difference yet?

Here's an easy solution: Why not set up a special third room under the DG&P banner where the girls can discuss whatever they need to. It could be described as QF Cabin Crew - if your topics and style are rejected by the entire cabin crew industry AND the pilots in your own country, post it here!

It'll be something of a status symbol.

[Flying Solo]

Sorry Green Goblin, but who arms your doors?? oh, just those idiots right? Im glad i started this thread, im learning more and more that you are all very narrow minded.

Shame..

[Eclan]

Im glad i started this thread, im learning more and more that you are all very narrow minded. So what was the real point of it then? And does this mean you're heading back to the CC forum?

I suspect that, at the ripe young age of 58, you already had your opinions very firmly entrenched. But thankyou anyway for the attempt at painting a rosier picture of the 'love' between the crew! I'm happy to say where I work, there's a lot more mutual respect. I can't imagine what it must be like at your airline...

[Obie]

...and, on that note, Solo, hopefully, may just choose to 'go away'...

hopefully! :ok:

[Keg]

I couldn't care less where the cabin crew post. I just like the irony of calling for everyone to get along whilst then telling people to get over and generally showing a lack of desire to get along.

[YoDawg]

you are all very narrow minded.

A most amusing and broad-minded post, Solo. :rolleyes:

[funbags]

Who arms your doors. You're kidding aren't you. Its not rocket science, I could get my 6 month old daughter to arm a door.

Funniest post I have read in a while. :D

Stick to beef or chicken. :ouch:

[j3pipercub]

A SIMPLE SOLUTION. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR ALL F/A'S WHO START A THREAD TO PUT A BIG

F/A OR C/C

BEFORE THEY PUT THE TITLE OF THE THREAD, THEN ANY DIS-INTERESTED PARTIES WILL KNOW TO LEAVE IT ALONE. I THINK THAT IT IS FAIR TO ASK THE F/A'S TO DO THIS AS IT WAS THEIR BEHAVIOUR THAT FORCED THE LOCKOUT OF THEIR 'NATIVE' FORUMS IN THE FIRSTPLACE.

That being said I shall now bite on a few issues...

Comparing F/A's to LAME's is like comparing teachers to pupils. One group has worked god-damned hard, done a 4 year apprentice-ship, done their hangar time etc. The other USUALLY (NOTE: NOT ALWAYS) has a lot to learn, and this is being shown in this very thread.

Flying Solo, trust me when I say it's a two way street on the narrow minded-ness. You claim to be playing nice, but your posts on here suggest the polar opposite.

"GET OVER IT!"

"and you thought cabin crew were catty! "

"Read our threads if you choose, comment and get a feel of the pressure and worry we have of job security at the moment. This is the only place we can speak out, without management breathing down our necks." YEAH COS HALF THE PILOTS AREN'T FEELING THE SAME PRESSURE. YOU LOT (QF CC's) HAD YOUR CHANCE TO PLAY NICE IN YOUR OWN FORUMS, NOW WELCOME TO OURS!

"But are happy that you are hosting us for the moment" Don't get too comfy


I orginially started this post.

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/374816-why-all-f-threads.html

It descended at an uncontrolled rate into a slanging match at which I asked it to be closed. It was a very interesting introduction into what we are seeing now. My patience is at it's end. No wonder you all got booted from the other forums.

jungle juice, I know there are good, cool headed CC's out there like yourself, however, Flying Solo and their ilk really can't wander on in and expect the welcome mat.

You have antagonised the PPRUNE D,G&P pilot group, RPT, GA, the lot, don't expect the welcome mat or anything that might resemble anything but a sub-zero reception

j3

[TightSlot]

A little background that may help...

As discussed, QF threads about/by QF crew are usually moved here from the CC forum: This was after numerous warnings and complaints from other users and as a direct result of the unacceptable behavior of many of those posting on the subject(s) in CC.

The threads were blocked and moved to DG&P because accusations were made by the QF crew that the Mods (and everybody else in the world, it turned out) did not understand and appreciate the supposedly unique style of Australian humour and expression being demonstrated. On the off chance that this was correct, we decided that it was better to direct threads in here (rather than simply banning individual users) where possibly, what passes for rudeness, aggression and triviality in the rest of the world might be understood as something else. Given the large number of Australians that we have met whose behavior and style had nothing at all to do with that demonstrated by the QF crew in question, it is no surprise to see that they are as welcome here as they were in CC.

Threads for other Australian airlines (VB etc.) continue to run in the CC forum: The issue is a QF issue, rather than one of nationality. Interestingly, the very worst of the QF CC muckrakers are equally adept at fouling the nests of pilots and their fellow CC as they are the airline itself. I am reminded of the deeply unattractive members of various European Nationalist political parties - they wrap themselves in the nations flag while espousing theories and activities that are the antithesis of everything that they purport to represent.

On a personal note, one of the reasons that I moderate on PPRuNe, in CC, is because of a desire to improve the perception of my profession by others - this includes Pilots. Every time that any CC posts something that is "anti" pilot, the cause of mutual understanding is damaged - we take one step forward and two steps back. We work in the same metal tube, with the same commercial goals, as part of a team, albeit with different roles, and a defined chain of command. Attempting to throw rocks through the flight deck door, in either direction, is surely an exercise in futility?

[Angle of Attack]

Flying Solo

Who cares AOA they are not pilots, hence they shouldn't be here... just using the view of your peers

Ok Go away then! Because you arent either!

Jungle Juice

C'Mon AOA,tell us what you are really saying?

What I am saying is that you cannot compare CC with engineers, hell you can do a 1 week course and work on the 380! The point is this is a pilots network and I think I am not only one thinking WTF?!

[Eclan]

How about an "Airline Specific Private Forum" for the QFCC, then? It works for the pilots. They can go for it in there and happily sling muck all over the place... Good for us, good for them, everyone's a winner.

All in favour?

[ditch handle]

The following post was made by the CC moderator on the 18th January that preceded QF cabin crew's move to the D&G forum-

__________________________________


OK...

Let's start with this - the CC forum are not managers and have no agenda to promote anything to do with any aspect of QANTAS - frankly we could care less. Accusing those who take a different view of being managers is both lazy in thought and infantile in practise - please restrict it to whatever playground you use regularly.

QANTAS (and other Australian) threads on this forum have along history of unacceptable behavior: Thread drift, abuse, vitriol, profanity, bloody-mindedness, stroppiness, politicization - the list goes on. For reasons that defy understanding, this kind of behavior is deemed acceptable by a large number of Australian crew - even though it is not in the rest of the world (I mean the rest of the world quite literally). To be fair, it tends to be a vocal minority - the usual suspects - that take part: This minority have no concept of the effect that their views and actions have on readers from elsewhere. Any sympathy that might theoretically have been enjoyed by QANTAS crew vaporized when it was realized that they richly deserved the management that they received. The truly extraordinary thing is that Australians that I have met in person have no discernible link with the QANTAS rabble on PPRuNe - they are the inverse of all the behavior listed above. How did so many tedious Australians end up in the aviation business? Very strange.

For a while the mods tried the approach subtle - explanations (such as this one) hints, suggestions and so forth: This failed comprehensively. Subsequently forum and thread bans worked for a while, but they tend to create additional work for mods. The next idea was simply to transfer all OZ threads to the D&G forums - this at least corrals the problem away from sight of normal people - unfortunately the D&G mods are now just as sick as we are of tedious whining QANTAS crew, and have started sending the threads back to us. Frankly, my inclinations is simply to delete any further threads in Cabin Crew forum that refer to aviation in Australia and permanently ban those users that we know to be troublesome. The other mods in this forum are not only smarter than me, but also more patient (for the time being at least) so for now, no change, but watch this space.

If you were all moderators, you would be able to "see" on log-in the number of posts on this thread that we have had to delete - I assure you it is higher than many of you realize.

Please understand, this post should not be viewed as some sort of invitation to debate, or explain further. I'm not interested in any of that - it's been done before and didn't work then - I just don't have the time or patience to go through all that again. I would suggest that you all remember it though, as I've more than had enough of Australian aviation of any kind on the Cabin Crew forum.

[Angle of Attack]

So Just send them all off to another forum, they don't belong here.

[A Comfy Chair]

Very nice last paragraph TightSlot.

I am with Keg in so much as the fact that I couldn't care less where the C.C post - although I imagine the Cabin Crew forum was created for a reason... to have some order and logic to the forum for this very reason... so people didn't need to trawl through heaps of threads that are not likely to be of any interest to them.

If the behaviour of these individuals is unacceptable in the rest of the forums, then it is unlikely to be much more acceptable here. It doesn't matter if they are C.C, Groundstaff or Private Flyers... their behaviour would be as equally unacceptable. This is not a "pilots vs cabin crew" issue... its a "Residents vs the new upstarts" one :}

After all, we already have enough of our own reprobates!

[The Green Goblin]

Sorry Green Goblin, but who arms your doors?? oh, just those idiots right?

You said it not me :ok:

Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if you mucked up those said doors and took a little tumble aloft, perhaps then you might develop some basic appreciation (and perhaps some understanding albeit momentarily) of the physics behind flight.

Sadly, I don't think we would wave :}

[teresa green]

Still cannot believe in this day and age this old QF crap division of pilots and C/C still exists. In the days of TAA and Ansett, it was widely accepted that the aircraft needed pilots, engineers and cabin crew to function as a airliner, it could NOT operate as such if one element was missing, we all got on, we were one crew, regardless of what we did, we had respect for each other, and enjoyed each others company when away, there were many marriages (and some divoices) between us all, and it was a happy work place, fast forward my time to QF and suddenly it all changed, different crew buses, different hotels, not much interaction between the two crews (note, not one crew) and I after many years in TAA was quite amazed, in fact was quite astonished at the attitude of some Tech Crew to C/C and vice versa, so different to the happy camps of the domestics, so bloody silly, so unaustralian, so pathetic and childish, time a whole lot of QF people grew up, it IS 2009 not 1943, in some RAF base, where this whole attitude of Pilots and "erks" aka engineers, were considered to be on a seperate social scale, and this carried on to mainly QF after the war, thank God it was rejected in the domestic carriers.

[Flying Solo]

for those who posted something constructive.. thanks.

[Flying Solo]

teresa, if only these "pilots" would take a look at TAA and the Australian Airlines (AO) that managed to work so well on CC and TC working together. Not wanting them to fall out of an aircraft. Thanks for your input

[Mr. Hat]

It's a pilots forum and thats that.

Other parts of the industry (engineers, security, baggage handlers, managers, owners) join in and offer their views but hardly make the problems that it seems certain Cabin Crew members do. It seems like its a daily event that a new thread on cabin crew to stay or not to stay. I can't remember similar threads on engineers or any other group for that matter.

So to stick to the 2 Cabin Crew forums and if you have been banned from them then maybe you shouldn't be here at all.

As for the Cabin crew that have always posted here with no problem feel free to stay. Thats how i see it anyway.


Simple.

[j3pipercub]

Solo,

You have made sure that this is no-longer just a QF issue, it is now an entire pilot body issue. You were the protagonist in all of this, by the very nature of your thread title. You don't walk in somewhere and expect everything. You ask nicely, and acknowledge that you are here because you couldn't behave elsewhere.

The hypocrisy of then stating you don't know why we can't get along is non-sensical in the extreme.

You mention in the other forum:

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/373477-qf-sh-lh-temp-transfers-4.html

that you were trying to 'get a bit of friendliness going'. By all means do that. BUT DON'T TRY AND 'TEACH US' TO SHARE. Which is what you are implying in your thread title.

j3

[framer]

My personal take is that pilots tend to view things from a different perspective. As a result a particular topic is discussed in a certain way that is different to how it is discussed by cabin crew.
An example of this is the thread on QF charging for exit rows. I opened the thread expecting one type of conversation and got something quite different. It wasn't interesting to me and there seemed to be a lot of rubbish written in between the interesting takes on the situation.
In short, the "tone" of the thread/forum has been altered in a way that is disapointing/annoying to me.
Framer

[capt.cynical]

Thank heavens I'm retired, I don't think I could stand working with any of the posters on this thread !!!! :yuk::mad::ugh::bored:

Keg & Domestos excluded :ok:

[Ultergra]

PPRuNe used to be a great place to get some insight into what was happening in the industry. Now we get these CC comenting on pilot issues (read Head's down and that other tool bag that used to P*SS everyone off...) and now it's turned into a forum that quite frankly isn't that interesting.

CC have been banned from other forums, BAN THEM HERE, they are already annoying all of us. I guess it doesn't take much intellegence to become a CC member... if it did, they would read the title.. PPRuNe... Professional Pilots Rumour Network.. Not CCRN... faaaaaaaar out, was that so bloody hard? Get your own forum...

I saw that chick on 60 minutes tonight and it taught me about society in general, how stupid are people becoming... I mean, you lie on camera and you're an instant star..

To the the old PPRuNe.... chik chik booom....

[indamiddle]

this is the best thread ever.
keep it up, i am pissing my pants over the comments here