Merged: Pel Air vs RFDS for the Air Ambulance contract in Australia

[morno]

You are right to an extent Forky, overall it would be a small part. But in the more traditional bases (Charleville, Mount Isa, Cairns to a small extent), it's still a big part of what RFDS does.

In Aeromedical, you have to plan for the worst case scenario. You can't have minimal bases hoping that there's a spare aircraft from Brisbane or Rockhampton (rare, you'd know this by the amount of flying you hear them do) to attend Birdsville when something bad does happen out there.

I could spend ages trying to justify it, but eoc has summed it up better. Population density.

morno

[j3pipercub]

Brisbane - Birdsville = 165 min
Bundaberg - Birdsville = 157 min
Rockhampton - Birdsville = 139 min
Townsville - Birdsville = 127 min
Cairns - Birdsville = 144 min

Kinda hard to see, isn't it!

Didn't realise that the RFDS Qld section had those flash Kingairs that could do 310kts Groundspeed from Anywhere to Birdsville. Are we being a little creative with our ETE's Doc?

Don't get me wrong, I think that RFDS do a great deal of admirable work, but, in my opinion, using their charity status to out-compete mainstream tax-paying GA is not one of them.

So the question remains then, are you willing to pay more tax so that transport associated with the primary healthcare provided to regional Australia can be provided by a 'GA' operator?

j3

[morno]

Brisbane - Birdsville today would take 3.9hrs, PLUS the fuel stop required in Charleville, :ok:. So 4.5hrs from take off in Brisbane minimum.

morno

[Jack Ranga]

So the question remains then, are you willing to pay more tax so that transport associated with the primary healthcare provided to regional Australia can be provided by a 'GA' operator?


Governments in this case are a pack of bludging parasites. Medical retrievals should not be performed by 'charities.' Our outback cousins deserve this service and funded by the relevant government.

As for paying more tax to fund it, how much was spent by the federal government on those disgraceful mining propaganda ads?

Kerry Packer said in the senate one day when being questioned over the amount of tax he paid:

"I don't think you do a well enough job of spending the tax I do pay, let alone giving you more" (or words to those effect)

[Wally Mk2]

'Morno' & friends you won't be able to convince the likes of the Dr:8 so save ya breath:-)
Those of us that believe the RFDS do a great job will always have to ward off the likes of those who simply don't believe. The RFDS have been doing it for over 80 yrs & will continue to do so long after most of us here have gone.
I reckon there should be NO commercial operators supplying Aero Med services here in OZ but that's just how I see it.
Fist class Medical attention here in Oz for everyone every time would be Nye impossible to provide over the whole of the land but the RFDS does a damn good job in the face of commercial operators who's ONLY reason for supplying such a service is money.
If the RFDS has a commercial advantage over other operators to that I say bloody good! It's about service & that comes at a cost to all tax payers in this great land.

Wmk2, one of the few who truly believes:ok:

[Jamair]

Maybe RFDS should take a page from FTDKs book.... "nah, busy, can't get there today; look just put a bullet in its head and bury it in a paddock...."

Wonder how that approach would go down....:hmm:

Be a bloody sight cheaper than paying for all those aircraft I spose.

[Skynews]

Without setting out to start a slanging match about training, and no disrespect to those at the RFDS, most loyal employees claim that their training has been the best you can get.
The flying you guys do would certainly be demanding, same as it is for the other providers of the same type of air services, Pearl in Darwin and Katherine etc.
My impression based on flying in airlines with ex RFDS pilots is that they certainly on average no better than the general standard coming from GA. Maybe the different regions have different standards, overtime I would think this would be evened out, however individual training pilot.s would certainly make a difference.
As for being a "non profit" organization, I'm not convinced the public aren't being hoodwinked. Is there a marked difference In the service provided by the NTAMs and RFDS, if so I certAinly haven't heard about it?
Seriously though, while my comments my look like their intended to denigrate the RFDS they're not. I respect the history and certainly the early history, I do wonder whether they should be able to claim tax free ( I think) and donations whilst competing with other operators. Bit like MAF I guess

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Maybe RFDS should take a page from FTDKs book.... "nah, busy, can't get there today; look just put a bullet in its head and bury it in a paddock...."


No need to bury anything, the pigs will clean up quick! :E

Dr :8

[bushy]

Because they are the only ones that can afford to.

[Desert Duck]

Well said Wally - agree 100%

'Another true believer'

[Counter-rotation]

ecovictim

To compare RFDS and NTAMS is not valid, to say the least. The reasons have been stated many times, in many threads.

And if I may, in general:

Many people seem to be posting here, talking about RFDS training standards, equipment age / condition etc. compared to the rest of Australian GA.

I think these posters are missing the point somewhat.

The guts of it is the disparity between providing a "charitable" - and very worthy, service to majority of Australia, remote and otherwise, and competing for commercial contracts with other companies, who feel the full effect of commercial pressures in every aspect of their operations, every day.

Personally, I believe that there IS something wrong with this picture - but that is in no way a comment about RFDS's standards or their line operations. Why do people have such trouble separating these two concepts??!!

Cheers,
CR.

[Wally Mk2]

Thanks "DD" we are but a few :ok:

I'm not going to weigh in here too much about who's got the best training RFDS or anyone else but it's not just about training as such it's about checking thereafter where I think standards can slip. You can teach a monkey to fly a plane the way you want them too. Christ you don't need too much in the way of a formal education to do that even all the way up to an Airbus! It's when after some time out there in the real world where they really learn that the checking is so varied & at times just used to 'tick' the boxes. A pilots ability is only as good as the guy before him,meaning the instructor.
I think it's pretty well accepted that the RFDS have excellent C&T now especially with a B200 Sim available & the resources to train/check to a very high standard so that's where the main difference is compared to GA in general, what tools/money/ they have to do the job, there in lies the problem.
At the end of the day whom do you want to fly yr loved ones around when urgently needed? The RFDS whom do only that & for the longest time with the best resources or some operator whom has barely enough resources to do the task? No offense to those operators out there I understand it's not a level playing field to some degree I don't make the rules I just fly/live by them.


Wmk2

[morno]

If government departments can bid for contracts that are also open to commercial operations (outside of aviation), then why can't RFDS compete against commercial aviation operators to win contracts?

morno

[maxgrad]

eocvictim. Point received but still not the point.

The Govt is the evil force in all this, time and time it has been said.
Money becomes the overriding force where it should take a back seat to safety and task required hardware and training.

I have worked for both commercial and charity ops. Charity ops SEEM to get more of the pie machinery wise.

In my view it is again the Govt who are playing cost into a factor, add this and a wanton attitude to change the operator to justify a Govt stuff up and you get what is happening now, both RFDS and Pearl have been diddled.

My vote in the upcoming election will show my stance......pointless in the scheme of things that it is

[scarediecat]

This is about providing aviation services to the Victorian Health Department, not charitable medical care to the rural people of Australia.


Straight out of the AAV business model guide 2010. :ugh:

Sorry for coming aross a little negative but something has been lost in the the whole process. The Victorian Ambulane Service has lost the plot and it aint limited to the air wing side of things. Victoria as a state of Australia, receives part funding from the federal government to service their health care needs. The RFDS as a non-profit organisation that dedicates its entire focus too areomed is the best in the business in this region. (ie Australia!!!!!) They service Victorians and every other Australian. The RFDS of course has a commercial advantage to other organisations. (much too the "un-named competing companies" annoyance) This is too the advantage of every Australian with the service's they receive in my belief.
Yes at the end of the day Pelair will deliver the service requested. But I suspect a little innsular arrogance has clouded the decision making progress here at AAV. (which they have every right to do btw:})

[bushy]

The point is that governments should be paying what is required to justify the purchase of the necessary equipment and the necessary training so that whowever gets the contract can do it properly.
Obviously they do not.

[morno]

The point is that governments should be paying what is required to justify the purchase of the necessary equipment and the necessary training so that whowever gets the contract can do it properly.
Obviously they do not.

Obviously they do, if Pel-Air have purchased brand new B200's for the Victorian Air Ambulance contract.

And obviously they do if RFDS is making enough to put back whatever they make from these contracts, into their traditional work.

Even if RFDS does benefit from donations from the Australian public Bushy, what's wrong with them putting it back into the community in the form of new aircraft, new medical equipment etc., that the Australian public can benefit from. I don't think we'll see Pel-Air doing that outside of what they're required to do in Victoria.

morno

[Wally Mk2]

Further to what 'morno' has added here the Vic contract is worth something like $70Mill of which the contractor (Pelair in this case) have to supply 4 x A/C at say $8Mill @ & with the rest of that loot run the contract. Obviously that's a very simply breakdown of it but in a nut shell if the contractor can do it for less then the 'profit' goes to where they see fit. Commercially it's into the pockets of the owners/share holders etc which is fine that's how the world turns commercially but with the RFDS as 'morno' states it goes back into helping the Aussie community. There in lies the big difference we have here & we at the RFDS where (not anymore as it's a done deal now) scratching our heads thinking peoples lives from a Govt's perspective boils down to money....how sad:ugh:, Still like I have said elsewhere here I do wish PelAir all the best hopefully some of that RFDS experience will carry over into the new operation keeping some level of continuity. Life will go on in the RFDS but it won't go on for all.



Wmk2

[bushy]

If the government pays the correct ammount for the work, why do the RFDS need donations and Bequests?

[PPRuNeUser0161]

bushy
Because not all the RFDS work is a cashed up contract, in case you hadn't noticed.
SN

[bushy]

Can you tell me where they are doing unpaid work??

[bushy]

I don't believe it!!!!

[Captain Nomad]

Don't forget if you go to the West there is a lot of things the Government doesn't pay for. Take accidents pretty much anywhere outside of metropolitan Perth for example. It will be a VOLUNTEER Ambulance officer who will turn up to cut you out of your vehicle rollover or pick you up at home after your heart attack. Volunteers, and yet they provide the primary response care to patients. Unthinkable in some other places.

Bushy, to a certain extent I agree, if the Government paid for EVERYTHING, there would be no need for RFDS and the likes to take donations. But the fact is there is not enough money going around and I rather like the thought of RFDS putting all the money where it is needed rather than lining someone/s pockets as would be the case with a commercial operator, who doesn't go into business to break even.

[Al Fentanyl]

Not that hard to find out........check their web site. flyingdoctor.net.au

Apart from the listed stuff, they also provide

a national HF radio net, on which anyone across the country can access help or advice.
a 24/7 GP telephone service - try ringing your own GP for free medical advice at 2AM and see how you get on
Medical Emergency Chest service, where localities / stations are provided with pharmacology and equipment to use in conjunction with the telephone / HF consultation, for medical emergencies and accidents
Where Your Money Goes

The RFDS is a not for profit, charitable organisation that relies on funding from private donations, philanthropic grants, private trusts, events and community fundraising to provide more than $20 million a year to ensure our life-saving services are maintained.

Your donation will be used in several ways to help the thousands of people who live, work and travel in remote, rural and regional Australia.

Your donation funds essential health services:


Preventative Health Programs for people living on remote stations
Healthy eating and increased exercise programs in remote communities
Cultural activities which benefit health
Better access to specialist health professionals for extremely remote locations
Improved access to health information and resources for patients and health professionals
The delivery of culturally appropriate health servicesWe need a wide range of the latest medical equipment to continue providing the best aeromedical service in the world.
Your donation purchases vital but expensive equipment including:


Foetal heart monitors
Ventilators
Defibrillators to re-start a failed heart Your donation buys aircraft to keep us flying.

Our aircraft are among the safest in the world and fly more than 7 million kilometres in their lifetime! But after 20 years of hard work, they need to be replaced. Our fleet include aircraft used in air ambulance services.

* All donations made to the Australian Council of the RFDS are equally distributed between the RFDS operational sections around Australia. No donated funds are retained by the Council itself.

I have no problem donating to RFDS (and to the Fred Hollows Foundation and the Salvos either...... maybe they should compete against commercial operators for the services they provide to the Governemnt too....:rolleyes:)

[j3pipercub]

Bushy,

Have you at some time in the past tendered for a Charter that was won by the RFDS?

j3

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Bushy
Basically all the traditional RFDS operations are conducted on a not for profit basis. Sure money is raised by various means to provide that service but there is no money left for profit, any excess cash is put towards the purchase of new equipment which is used to provide better or additional services.

They are not paid to do it. For instance a government department might fund a specific program, when the money runs out the program stops. The only people making money out of the RFDS are their suppliers and employees. Thats a charity. The reason they bid for contracts is to raise more money to help pay for the traditional ops. Boring as and totally un Pelair but thats it.

The reason they lose contracts is because they cant afford to lose money into any activity that is not part of the traditional operations, the board members just would not cop it. It must be clearly beneficial to the organisation and be in no way a liability because its not what they're about.
SN

[PPRuNeUser0161]

OK let me put it another way. the RFDS does not exist to make money, it exists to provide aeromedical services to those who need it wherever they may be. It is owned by those who fund it and nobody gets a dividend, no different to the Red Cross and nothing like Pelair! They are actually constantly looking to improve the services they provide on a needs basis.

Unfortunately they live in a commercial world where everything is expensive. Of course the various governments provide levels of funding for the various programs, job positions, aircraft replacement etc. This is because there is a need, if they didn't provide the funding they would have to put the medical services on the ground themselves, and we all know how good they are at that! When the RFDS lose a contract the governments have to cough up more coin, its that simple because the service must go on.
SN

[TBM-Legend]

The community is happy to pay for top quality medical support by the RFDS. Funds invested in a fleet of NEW B200's [Proline21]. I think that the point that is missed here is that the same number of pilots/maintainers/support staff probably exist no matter who the actual operator is. "Ownership" of the operation is only one ingredient.

A career at RFDS is much more stable than some of the other 'pretenders' out there.

[Towering Q]

A career at RFDS is much more stable than some of the other 'pretenders' out there.

There are pilots at the top end of the West-ops seniority list who started in the 70's, I doubt you would find that situation occurring with the 'pretenders'.

[Stationair8]

Why the requirement for the ATPL licence, when the aircraft is certified below 5700kgs?

I know a number of RFDS guys that have flown with the RFDS over the years with only a CPL Licence.

[Wally Mk2]

G'Day "S8":-)

ATPL is a contractual requirement. Somebody (or their advisers) within the Govt organization/s felt that having an ATPL is safer no doubt. Bit like the Min hrs req'd for the job,all debatable obviously but that's the way it was thought, well by some anyway.:)
The RFDS was once considered a career for life but these days it's often used as a stepping stone 'till something else comes along IE: big shinny jets:-)

Hope you all voted for the right party 2day:E


Wmk2

[33amc]

Well i think it gives them something to set a benchmark at, legally.

Doctors require the top grades to treat patients, so why shouldn't they be flown from hospital to hospital by the most experienced pilots? but i think it is mainly for legal purposes. Being able to cope under pressure etc.

Funny. Since your last post, we still don't know if he voted for the right party. :P

[Stationair8]

Thanks for that Captain Wally, must make them consultants earn their dollars?

Just as a matter of interest 33amc define "experienced" pilot then?

Yes I voted, but the three amigos that will hold power won't do much for my electorate!

[Al Fentanyl]

Doctors require the top grades to treat patients, so why shouldn't they be flown from hospital to hospital by the most experienced pilots? but i think it is mainly for legal purposes. Being able to cope under pressure etc.

So how does the NSW model of lowest bidder operating busted arse 1970's piston twins with CPLs of unknown heritage work with this philosophy? :hmm:

[Stationair8]

Sunday arvo drinks with a well connected individual says the position of Flight Operations Manager has been filled by a well known industry person who comes with all the right qualifications and ticks in the right box etc.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Stationair8
So would this person have come out of VIC, NSW or QLD.
SN

[Under Dog]

Stationair8
Intials Wouldn't be S.A would it.

The Dog:ok:

[morno]

Stumbled across this today, looks like 4 brand new BL build B200's are on their way for Pel-Air.

Registrations, VH-VAH, VAI, ZKA, ZKB.

morno

[scarediecat]

The very latest is the winner has the initials AE. All qualifications met for the new operations manager!!! Renowed or Renown? On a little less than requested but :(. All the best of luck mate.

ps. dont listen too Wally mkII anymore-he is now one of the rats who has left the sinking ship! Thanks for all your efforts mate :D

[Stationair8]

Different initials to what I was told.

Has this gentleman previuosly worked for a large NSW based regional airline?

[mustman]

I recently saw the advertisement from Pelair for the Aeromed drivers out of Melbourne. Just wondering how the deal compared to what you guys were on??

[scarediecat]

We don't exactly know yet! Most of us who are interested in jumping across have been interviewed and all but one have been offered a job. We are now waiting on further correspondance with Pelair hopefully detailing that info.

[morno]

Interesting that Pelair have had very few applicants for the VAA jobs. I heard they advertised internally at Rex etc. and got no applicants at all. And now they're still advertising for 18 pilots, including not just line pilots, but supervisory pilots and check and training pilots.

Getting desperate? Wonder what the penalties are if they can't supply enough pilots to run the contract?

morno

[scarediecat]

Not sure of how many applicants they have received. Surely there are heaps out there! :} Just watch those minimum requirements over the next year go up :O. But seriously it is Pelair and they pride themselves on keeping their customers happy so they will find the 18 (or 12) needed.
The contract they signed sure has penalties! 12 hour shifts if necessary is what I heard combined with an FMS. It will be very interesting to see if 12 hour shifts eventuates. (Bloody hard and tiring work for the poor sods if you want my humble opinion). I feel a few changes will be occuring with how FMS's are implemented for single pilot op's over the next year or two. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. Has Pelair much experience with single pilot op's or is it all two crew??

[Under Dog]

The second advertisement, um!!!
Have they got the B200 on the AOC yet?

The Dog:ok:

[Wally Mk2]

..............ahh good to see this thread still going, keeps me amused:-)

Now now 'SC' don't be like that buddy nothing is 4ever, we had it good once & I will 4ever cherish my years at the Dr's working with great guys/gals. I jumped ship as I had watched the movie 'Titanic' too many times:E
I miss the job terribly actually but the comfort I have now is that it simply won't be the same so in reality the job isn't 'miss-able' as it won't exist in my mind as of mid next year, well the way I knew it anyway:sad:

To all those that do get a start or stay on then best of luck:ok:

Wmk2..................props are 4 boats:E

[apache]

I jumped ship as I had watched the movie 'Titanic' too many times


and to think, I used to respect you opinion!

[Wally Mk2]

....oh God...........spare me 'apache'!.:ugh:


Wmk2

[Stationair8]

Bit over seven weeks to go, still a number of the Pelair Kingairs in Hawkers hangar at Cairns.

[scarediecat]

Everything on schedule and on track to be ready midnight July 1 :ok:

[Howard Hughes]

Aircraft look great, good luck to all!:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Scarediecat
Yeah i'm sure it is.
sn

[Under Dog]

The Count down begins!!!!

The Dog:ok:

[Wally Mk2]

Well that's that! To all those left disjointed by this questionable Gov decision I wish you well. End of an era.
To the many pilots that passed thru the place during the 11+ years of the now lost contract, to the engineers who kept the old girls running (bloody amazing stuff at times) & to the admin staff who had to put up with us bitching about no cookies in the cookie barrel...............I thank you for the fun times & the many stories that I shall regale in the years to come. :D
Was the best job I'll ever have that's for sure!

Now let the games begin:ok:

Wmk2

[Under Dog]

Yes Wally it is the end of an era!!!
It will certainly not be the same job with Pelair in control ( more like an institution).
I wish all the new pilots there all the best and hope it works out well although they will
live in fear that they might be thumped by the Chief Pilot!!!

Regards
The Dog:ok:

[Desert Duck]

After you have been with the RFDS for a while you realize that it is not a job - but a way of life.

We are indeed privelaged to do what we do.

[swab]

I'm sure I'll offend people with these comments, I dont mean to.

Yes, the rfds do a great job but their attitude just seems mired in the 1920's still.

Sorry if I offend.

[Wally Mk2]

'swab' not offended at all but ya had to be there to actually experience the comeradery of the dedicated team:ok:
It bothers me none if their attitude is like you say it's the people at the coal face that are the true spirit of the RFDS, not the ones who run it.


Wmk2

[Desert Duck]

Well said Wal -

Despite the fact that the Admin people think they are the most important part of the RFDS,

The RFDS is the operational crews.

[swab]

Wal, I agree! I was there too. Several years in fact doing both retrievals and the "traditional" RFDS work.

I was indeed referring to (some) management.
The crews on the coal face were great and there was a real team spirit that we were doing this together. Each of us had a role to play to get the job done.

Glad you weren't offended.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Well chaps it seems things are tough for Pelair. They are advertising for Line, training and CAR 217 check captains today. I heard three gave notice in the last fortnight, the rosters are crap and so is the pay.

You reap what you sow Pelair. All too easy wasn't it. We can win this, we'll just reduce the pilot's wages to do it, and they'll fall out of any tree we shake and beg for the work!

Sounds great on paper. Only 10 years to go.

SN

[anonymouspilot]

So does anyone know what the conditions and pay actually are? Days off per month? Much below what the RFDS pilots were on?

[PPRuNeUser0161]

I have no exact figures but the RFDS pilots were offered 85K to come over at the start of the contract. They then started offering less to those who got later starts. This is well below the lowest paid RFDS job anywhere. There is no EBA at the moment so I suspect they offer you what they thing your worth at the interview.

SN

[anonymouspilot]

Seems ar$e about to offer experienced guys less money in order to stay on. Especially when starting a new contract that would benefit greatly from their past experience. And how can you have multiple pilots doing exactly the same job on different pay...

[PPRuNeUser0161]

The REX/Pelair group are not known for breaking new ground when it comes to employee relations. The penalties on this contract are substantial for non compliance so they will need to get their act together if they wan't to make money at the price they quoted.

SN

[Wally Mk2]

Hey 'SN' am not surprised with any of what's going on there.Shame really as the job itself is the best anyone could want. I hope AAV realize that money isn't everything & you simply get what you pay for like most things in life.

I wish only peaceful times ahead for all & to stay focused on the task at hand, helping others, something you don't get in any other flying position .


Wmk2

[glekichi]

Not only are they offering less than the RFDS (even WMK2s favourite SE drivers), but they cannot offer the tax incentives either (because the foreign nationals pocket the profits, rather than reinvesting them all into the company), so the take-home pay is even worse again!

[Al Fentanyl]

Any truth to the rumour that a certain Rex refugee from Wagga is now a training captain for the Pelair AAV contract? That individuals personality would not be doing much for their morale either.

Must be nearly time for the Pelair Norfolk Westwind crash investigation to be published.......

[Jamair]

Something the other RFDS sections have long since figured out; if a pilot ticks all the boxes for an RFDS SP IFR multi-turbine gig, they are eminently employable anywhere. Attracting and retaining suitable pilots means paying what they are worth. $85K for that job? Tell him he's dreamin'!!

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Heard that Pelair got fined 30K for non compliance for one shift. Can anyone back this up???

SN

[Wally Mk2]

"SN" I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. More to come am sure.

The RFDS management must be shaking their heads these days. I just feel sorry for the guys at the coal face no doubt getting very fatigued trying to do a task/job that was once very manageable.


Wmk2

[megle2]

Noticed RFDS Victoria had a display at the Melbourne Show featuring a PC12 mockup - I thought they didn't like SE types or am I mixing them up with some other RFDS unit

[Wally Mk2]

"m2" not too sure why that was the case of the Royal Melb Show having a connection with the SE section of the RFDS & the PC12, the two will never mix, well not in my life time anyway due common sense:ok:
Perhaps the 'PC' was used as a generic display for the RFDS in general & the ref to Vic was because the show is held in Melb.


hey 'HH" you any closer to that loooong version of safety?

Also how's good old 'Bob' settling in up there?:E


Wmk2

[Howard Hughes]

Megle that is a Kingair fuselage, used as a medical crew trainer. Coincidentally it is the same shape the Pilatus people modelled their fuselage on!;)

[megle2]

No sign of a King Air badge, PC12 photo's and signs but in any case was a pretty impressive mock up

[glekichi]

There is a pc12 mockup getting around on a trailer. I think it's loaned around quite a bit, but it did raise my eyebrows too being a pc12 in a SE section paint scheme.

Couldnt help but think of wally when I saw it.

Edited to add: If I recall correctly it was made by the guys in the far west.

[Under Dog]

Megle
The Victorian Section of the RFDS (not the same as the South east section) have had a close association with the Derby base in WA (they used to provide funding,don't know if they still do) In fact they used to run it before Western Operations took it over.They may have been displaying Western Op aircraft which are PC 12.

Regards The Dog:ok:

[AussieO2]

The Victorian Section have a PC-12 'simulator', another PC-12 with the Western Ops, and a B200C 'simulator' based in Tasmania.

[megle2]

I thought it was a PC12
Gets a bit confusing with all these different RFDS's

[Stationair8]

In this months Aviation Trader, Hawker Pathetic have some of the old RFDS/Vic air Ambulances B200's listed for sale.

[GCS16]

Any truth to the rumour that a certain Rex refugee from Wagga is now a training captain for the Pelair AAV contract? That individuals personality would not be doing much for their morale either.

True and True!

Search for "AAV" on prune and see some other interesting posts! I heard one say 14 pilots gone in 9 months!