Air South West - getting off early

[davidjohnson6]

I'd like to book a flight with Air South West from London to travel to SW England. The flight seems to route LGW-PLH-NQY. I note further that the fare LGW-PLH costs more than the LGW-NQY fare.

I plan to travel only with hand luggage. If I purchase the cheaper ticket for LGW-NQY, but on arrival decide to get off at PLH, how keen will cabin crew be to stop me getting off the plane ? I realise that there are all sorts of constraints about not being permitted to take off if baggage and passengers are known not to match up (despite what Govt rules may say, I believe bags have a habit of accidentally being loaded on the wrong aircraft), but would WOW really make a big effort to stop me if there is no checked baggage ?

To all the pedants out there - yes the air navigation order may seem to give captain carte blanche to do whatever he likes in his airplane kingdom, but I suspect that WOW will have procedures in the operations manual stipulating what is meant to happen under such a scenario.

[ReadyToGo]

I think that would depend on your crew. I doubt they would force you to stay on, but I think a bit of common sense might be a better idea.

When you check in at LGW, a quick word at check-in, and explain that although you booked to NQY, plans have changed since then and actually PLH is more convenient for where you are staying. I cant see there being a problem.

Suddenly wanting to get off at PLH, when you have a NQY ticket might possibly raise suspicion that will not help. The crew wont like someone suddenly getting off, as you could have hidden anything on the aircraft before you decided to change your mind.

RTG!

[Final 3 Greens]

When you check in at LGW, a quick word at check-in, and explain that although you booked to NQY, plans have changed since then and actually PLH is more convenient for where you are staying. I cant see there being a problem.

The problem is that this is breaching the fare rules and thus the contract.

A sharp check in agent will refuse to check the pax in.

[Chesty Morgan]

Well you can't just get off. Passenger figures are checked for each sector and if they don't add up you'll cause problems for the crew.

I wouldn't say anything until you got on board and then have a quiet word with the crew. Ask them if the Captain minds if you get off at Plymouth. If he's like me he wont mind where you get off as long as he knows about it. I don't see any reason why he would try and stop you and they certainly can't imprison you.

[Der absolute Hammer]

If you knowingly buy a ticket for one destination and then disembark yourself at another destination for which the ticket price would have cost more, are you no commiting fraud as well as whatever else. Certainly if the airline caiught you doing this, they might possibly try to make such a charge of defrauding them come to court? It might certainly make the newspapers? Detract from the custard flying aorund the Honourable Mambers.
Is it worth the risk? If the police are called, you wil be locked up perhaps and also DNAd.....think of the scandal...your wife might even leave you...!

[Avman]

Don´t say anything to anyone. When the flight arrives at PLH deplane with the rest of the PLH pax. No one will be the wiser until they make the head count prior to departing again. If it causes a flight delay that´s WOW´s problem for having a somewhat flawed fare structure! If they sue you (they won´t) counter sue them for gross negligence in allowing you to leave the aircraft unchallenged.

[Blueskyrich]

Mention it to the crew before getting to PLH and you'll be fine... :ok:

[cdtaylor_nats]

If I were to buy a train ticket from Glasgow to London, then decided to terminate my journeyy at an intermediate station then any attempt to detain me on the train would result in the employees of the train company facing arrest. Why would the same not apply to an aircraft?

As for the fraud charge I suspect a judge would simply throw that out of court on the grounds of an unreasonable contract.

[Bealzebub]

You have entered into a commercial contract. If you get off at another destination other than that you are ticketed to in breach of that contract, the airline can charge you the difference in fare prevailing at the point of the breach together with any reasonable costs it incurs as a result of both the breach and the subsequent recovery. The best thing you can do, if you think otherwise, is to read that contract.

Those that advise counter-sueing for some airy fairy non monetary nonsense, or who suggest unfair contract terms are living in cloud cuckoo land, which is unfortunate as that destination has no regular air service!

You seem like a sensible chap, therefore either find the cheapest possible fare to your intended destination, or teach them a commercial lesson by driving or taking the bus or train.

[Bealzebub]

Another point you might like to consider is that if you enter into a contract to fly you from Gatwick to Plymouth and the aircraft for weather/operational or any other reason omits Plymouth and flies you to Newquay, they would be responsible for transporting you to your intended destination and meeting the reasonable costs involved in doing so. If you are ticketed to Newquay, then the contract would be fulfilled and you would then be on your own.

The costs involved in an en-route stopover may well be disproportionate to the direct costs involved in a slightly longer journey. This takes into account the supply and demand factors. For example if the en-route stopover only accounts for around 20% of the passengers on a total one way flight trip, then it is not unreasonable that an airline applies a cost premium to the shorter sector, which it would in other circumstances either not serve, or utilize perhaps on a smaller aircraft with a higher unit seat cost.

[Goldilocks95]

Even if it was fine for you, think of the pax and the crew because if the crew got news of someone getting off suddenly when the are meant to stay on further surely they would wantto do a very thorough security check meaning maybe dissembarking pax again. I guess it would delay the aircraft meaning unhappy crew and pax, unhappy airline because of the delay....if they found out you did it delibratly then they may even ban you from flying with they wouldnt they???

[GroundedSLF]

You may also find that the airline then cancels the remainder of your itinerary, as you have not completed the journey as booked.

Beware - a lot of airlines cancel bookings automatically now, so your return journey may be cancelled without you knowing (until you turn up at the airport)

[ReadyToGo]

Out of curiousity, how much is the difference?

The way i see it, you need to speak to someone, i would suggest check-in at Gatwick, purely because if its a handling agent, they are unlikely to know that its cheaper to fly the full distance. Just ask them, and if they say no, dont argue, just try...
...speaking to the captain (via the crew) sounds like a good bet. I'm sure if you are reasonably polite there wont be a problem. However, as I (and others) said, there could be a security issue. Certainly I might be concerned that a pax suddenly changing his plans at last minute may have left a device or something on board.

Getting off with the PLH passengers is not recommended. I am told WOW seats pax for the two destinations on different sides of the aisle anyway, so you will likely be noticed.

As a last resort, I flew with Eastern airways on their SOU-NCL-ABZ service, and was seated next to a very nervous passenger, who asked to be let off at NCL, rather than go through taking off and landing again to get to Aberdeen. It didnt seem to be a problem then, they simply asked her to identify her bag and she disembarked with all the other NCL pax... how goods your acting???

RTG!!!

[Avman]

Bealzebub, legally speaking you may well be 100% correct. The reallity is that no company is going to spend the time, effort and money to make a legal case for the amount involved here.

________________________________

If it's a return ticket then it's correct to point out that breaking the outbound sector may automatically cancel the remainder of the itenarary. If on the other hand he is doing this on the return sector, there will be no problem. Done it quite a few times myself (with another airline) and they're still quite happy to take my money and issue me tickets.

[Capot]

Perhaps it goes to Newquay first?

Didn't Brymon do that once upon a time?

[Der absolute Hammer]

Hey-perhaps someone reading this post on so called Professional Pilot website has already clueded up WOW ops that someone is planning such a scam which could lead to flight disruptions?
Oh-not me-but....
I would just be unhappy as the Captain if I know that a passenger plans to risk delaying my flight for the saving of a few €. But I must be one of the pedants of which you speak?

[Avman]

I am told WOW seats pax for the two destinations on different sides of the aisle

That could make the PLH departure potentially interesting!

[ReadyToGo]

I got my info from an Airliners.net trip report. Must admit I thought it was odd, and surely not good from a weights and balance point of view.

New WOW Service From London City To Newquay (pics) — Trip Reports Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/148289/)

Anyone here ever flown with WOW that could confirm/deny this.

RTG!

[Final 3 Greens]

That could make the PLH departure potentially interesting!

Not as interesting as putting them all at the wrong end of the cabin :}

[boredcounter]

How did it go? Did it work? Did you save a few quid?


I would hope you are also happy if the airline breaches your contract not to take any compo from them, but smile and walk away.............



Serious Q to those in the know.

If spotted pulling a stunt like this, is a deliberate offloader permitted to be in the RZ given no excuse and no prior notice whilst committing posible fraud?

[Final 3 Greens]

boredcounter

Just ask yourself this question.

"In a very deep recession, would it be smart for a company to be caught apparently ripping off it's customers by charging them more for a shorter journey?"

For despite the breach of contract, the man on the Clapham Omnibus would surely take the view that a restaurant could not force someone to eat all three courses of a 'menu of the day' priced at a lower price than a single main course.

Offloading someone under such circumstances would be quite likely to make the headlines of the newspapers and in my opinion would be virtually impossible to prosecute for fraud, since there are some fairly obvious defences available.

In short, your question shows the bunker mentality and low grade commercial thinking encountered in airlines and partly explains why so few survive for more than a few years.

[boredcounter]

Would the whole route be poss if not for the fare structure?

You may stand on a train for the same fare as a sitter and get off where ever you want, but do not underpay or you might get caught.................

[Flying Farmer]

The last rotation does stop at NQY first!

The days flying as far as I remember is:

PLH NQY LGW PLH NQY LGW PLH(change crew!)PLH NQY LGW PLH NQY LGW NQY PLH

[Big Harvey]

The last rotation does stop at NQY first!

The days flying as far as I remember is:

PLH NQY LGW PLH NQY LGW PLH(change crew!)PLH NQY LGW PLH NQY LGW NQY PLH

Well, that would perhaps explain the fare structure in this case, but there are genuine anomalies out there.

This Summer my wife & I are visiting family in Canada. Unfortunately we're tied to school holidays. In the past we flew Zoom direct to Winnipeg, but now they've gone, Air Canada think they can charge what they like. The quotes we got involving them wouldn't have left much change from £800 each for a return ticket. Options with other airlines via the US were only slightly cheaper, so we decided to look for alternatives.

Minneapolis is the nearest major US city to Winnipeg, and fares to there were indeed way cheaper than for Winnipeg, although being around 8 hours' drive away, the logistics were not exactly convenient. Zooming in on my Google map, I stumbled upon a place called Grand Forks, North Dakota, only about a 3 hour drive from Winnipeg, (close enough for someone to come and pick us up) and just for a laugh I typed it into a booking engine, half expecting the place not to be recognised by the system and not to even have a proper airport. Amazingly not only was I quoted a fare (with NWA), but that fare was very significantly cheaper than the fare to Minneapolis, despite the fact that we would actually have to change planes in Minneapolis, and the flights used on the London- Minneapolis leg were exactly the same ones used for our original Minneapolis quote!

It occurred to me then that Minneapolis passengers could save money by booking through to Grand Forks and getting off in Minneapolis, but I suppose in practice the airline would probably refuse to let you check-in in Minneapolis (or anywhere else) for the return journey if you were to do that. I'm still puzzled at the logic of the fare structure though.

[Final 3 Greens]

Boredcounter

Would the whole route be poss if not for the fare structure?

Is that meant to be a justification for ripping off one set of pax, to subsidise another set?

Please give me one example where the train company tries to stop someone getting off at an intermediate stop before the final destination on the ticket.

[Desert Diner]

It occurred to me then that Minneapolis passengers could save money by booking through to Grand Forks and getting off in Minneapolis, but I suppose in practice the airline would probably refuse to let you check-in in Minneapolis (or anywhere else) for the return journey if you were to do that. I'm still puzzled at the logic of the fare structure though.

Not probably. They will cancel the remainder of your booking as you broke the conditions of your travel.

[Desert Diner]

If it causes a flight delay that´s WOW´s problem for having a somewhat flawed fare structure! If they sue you (they won´t) counter sue them for gross negligence in allowing you to leave the aircraft unchallenged.

A lawsuit will be the least of your worries. A bigger worry will be when those chaps in uniform will believe you and let you leave after repeating your story for the umpteenth time.

[boredcounter]

F3G

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf


16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a
return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for
the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in
the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However,
these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is
prohibited, in which case the relevant Train Companies will make this clear in their
notices and other publications.
If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This
excess fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold
and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that
would have entitled you to start, break and resume, or end your journey at that
station on the service(s) you have used.


The comparison here with trains and planes has to be a pre booked ticket on a selected service from the timetable, not a turn up and travel.


Not that I agree it is right, but many modes of transport have 'strange fare structures' but a contract is a contract, along with failure to comply clauses, either way, with the exception of Airlines.



Bored

[ATP_Al]

Final 3 Greens

"In a very deep recession, would it be smart for a company to be caught apparently ripping off it's customers by charging them more for a shorter journey?"

I would guess that the difference in price reflects the number of seats available to each destination. If on the day the passenger wishes to travel there are more people wanting to travel to Plymouth instead of Newquay then the price of a Plymouth ticket will of course be higher. It's the same yield management system that all airlines use to set their ticket prices, not a rip off.

Al

[Avman]

Do any of you remember the days when an APEX return was almost half the price of a one-way? Countless pax who were in the know, and needed to fly one-way, would purchase an APEX return and not come back! The airlines could do nowt about it. They just hoped not too many would be savvy enough to realise.

[PAXboy]

Big HarveyI'm still puzzled at the logic of the fare structure though.You presume that there IS a logic?!! The only logic is to get money. :}

Avman Yes indeed many recall the Apex and why, once computers took over the setting and monitoring of fares (within their given 'logic'), the fares went up!

[ReadyToGo]

I've asked a checkin girl that I know about this. Apparently, the correct practice, would be to cancel your booking, and rebook you. If there was a price difference, you WOULD be expected to pay it or at least an ammendment charge, BUT... its quite discretionary. Its very likely, that with the right attitude and a good reason, they would avoid the hassle, and just issue a notice to the crew and issue you with an ammended boarding card. Dispatch would amend their pax lists and all would be well.

If you approach the crew straight away and bypass checkin, you will cause further problems. The dispatcher will not be happy if this results in a delay! They will eventually let you off but you can expect to be met by a passenger agent who will deal with you. My guess is they would be better prepared, and yes, you'd expect to pay the difference. But the same applies, its still discretionary. Only now, you are dealing with someone who's just been given extra work they could probably do without

Finally, just walking off IS NOT an option. The crew have a passenger list, your details are in the booking system, the flight may take a delay, and while you won't get a lawsuit, you will get a nasty shock when you check in for the return.

Play it straight, chat politely with check in and they can do things for you... but don't just presume

RTG!

Ps... i might add the person who told me all this doesnt work for WOW, but apparently this is what you could expect on most flights