PAL Technical Stop-Guam?

[skyhighbird]

Guys,

On the flight from the West Coast USA to Manila, why do PAL 747-400s need a technical stop in Guam?

Qantas/United flights from West Coast-Sydney don't need them (unless I'm mistaken) and that route is longer?

[betpump5]

The extra weight compared to a QA flight!

All those filipinos bringing back regalo for their families! :}

[rq4globalhawk]

Aside from the heavier takeoff weight, there's also the possible headwind to deal with. The jet stream is normally in the upper latitude, from northeast asia to north america, hence a shorter flight time eastbound

[gengis]

It's gotta be more than just that.

Singapore Airlines routinely did SFO-HKG in winter on -400s, most of the time making it without pulling into the redispatch airfield.

China Airlines/Eva both similarly routinely do LAX-TPE & SFO-TPE with no trouble.

Not to mention Cathay -400s to HKG.

[ditchy]

They schedule it, but usually fly over the top. Its just written in the schedule in case the winds are bad

[skyhighbird]

They schedule it, but usually fly over the top. Its just written in the schedule in case the winds are bad

Are you saying there are times when PAL does not land there? I thought if it is a scheduled stop then they have to land? They would have taken off from LAX with fuel that gets them to Guam. Surely winds can never be so good that they saved 3 hours worth of fuel that can get them all the way to Manila??

I think I have the answer so tell me what you think:

On Google Earth, the QA LAX-SYD flight is approximately 800nm further than the PAL LAX-Manila flight.

I noticed that there are many alternative airfields in the S. Hemisphere towards Australia so if winds are bad, they can land.

However for the PAL flight, once you pass Hawaii, the only alternate airfield is Guam. And Guam is 3 hours from Philippines. So it make sense for a PAL flight to stop at Guam but a Qantas flight to sydney does not need a techincal stop.

Have I made an educated guess?

[Tankengine]

PNR, DPD, RIF?? [or a few other acronyms]:E

[skyhighbird]

What are you on?

[jamestaylor]

Its the winds and the load. No airplane made today except the 777200LR and 345 can go that long with full load from LAX-MNL. The winds and balakbayan load require that 30-40% of the time you must be a techinical re-fueling stop. Standard stuff - only way to avoid it is too limit weight from MNL to LAX no problem as the winds are almost always favorable..................

[filejw]

Guam is a technical stop only.

[skyhighbird]

Guam is a technical stop only.

????

No sh1t sherlock. What do you think we have been chatting about? And what has that got to do with the whole discussion anyway?

weirdo

[EK Fan]

Someone mentioned earlier that the stop is not always done if winds are favorable but this is not the case west-bound. East bound flight time stands at about 12 hours and some change and is always done non-stop, West bound is always done WITH a stop, or the plane would go out weight restricted. It used to be HNL that was the tech stop, it is now GUM due to passenger preferences (most preferred the longer block of time between LAX and GUM to rest before breaking the journey up for the final 3 hours to MNL as the flight is done in entire darkness. Also, PR's config on the 744 is much more dense than what is featured on the CX, SQ, CI and BR machines. I believe PR's 744's have 400+ seating?

[Cessna1052]

As I remember it right, PALs 744 are configured with 439 seats, except for the one that came from the Middle east( forgot the tail number).

I have done those tech stops before with PAL,both on the 744s and the 340s, and we used to land for fuel over Honolulu. I am surprised they are already doing it in Guam, but im very sure its no Passenger prerogatives. And tech stops are never usual, we find it back then as seasonal.

PAL flights to the US are sold and advertised as Direct flights, but since they get really good loads out of the west coast, it doesnt take so much of explaining to the passengers that they have to stop somewhere to pick up some fuel to complete the flight.

And there are cost involved here, and reasons could be cheaper landing fees and handling in Guam than Honolulu, And even fuel price.

If you compare PAL with other operators, there can definitely be numerous factors involved to draw the difference. One can be their configuration(seats), use of Speed, Cost index(remember this is partly based on the crews pay/cost of fuel), time they do the flights(busy timings or light timings), flight levels, fly over fees etc...

Whenever its a direct flight back to Manila, i remember all flights comes very close to japan( northerly route back home), and if the jets are so strong on the north LATS, thats the time planning sets them to fly south.

One more thing I remember, first post mentioned about a west coast to Australian flight, you might want to read something about Coriolis effect and global wind patterns.

Its been a while since i flew over the pacific, so feel free to correct my errors.

[yowdude]

you will exceed MTOW out of sfo if you attempt to bring all the fuel required on a strong headwind on a full load.

[buskoto]

A Guam tech stop is usually welcomed by the crew... pay-wise.:)