US says GPS satellite coverage may fail soon

[Cabe LeCutter]

Thank God we do not rely on Black Boxes:eek::eek:

US says GPS satellite coverage may fail soon | News | TechRadar UK (http://www.techradar.com/news/portable-devices/satnav/us-says-gps-satellite-coverage-may-fail-soon-599431)


Heads down, look out for the flack

[green granite]

Hmmmm, how certain is it that Galileo will ever happen?

[SirToppamHat]

No snags - we can just switch over to GLONASS:

G.L.O.N.A.S.S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS)

It should be up and running by the time GPS stops working ...

The Russian (and Ukrainian and Georgian) Mil guys I work with all seem to have their own GPS eqpt in one form or another.

STH

[sisemen]

With all the reliance on GPS for US targetting information etc etc etc anyone believing that the Americans would let it fail must be on some sort of illegal substance.

[arandcee]

problems with budgets mean that the probability of GPS remaining fully functional and, therefore, accurate will be as low as 10 per cent come 2017.

Hmm, I wonder what the thinking is behind releasing a statement like that?! :rolleyes:

[spheroid]

Bugger............just as the dinosaur that I fly in is about to get GPS fitted....back to the Dalton then...

[Shack37]

DGPS (GPS with accuracy enhancing positional corrections) is, and has been, in use by the Oil and Gas Industry as a primary navigation/survey tool for over 20 years. Historical positional data is based on this system and as such is unlikely to be allowed to be lost by the industry for the lack of a few $M donated to assist in the maintenance of GPS if, as I believe unlikely, the US DoD should have budgetary problems.

I took part in trials with GPS/GLONASS combined receivers when the latter was in it's infancy. Current GLONASS system results will need to be a great deal more reliable than they were originally if it is to prove a viable alternative to GPS.

Roll on Galileo.

s37

[diginagain]

There's a Mk IX Bubble Sextant going on fleabay if anyone's worried enough............

[tucumseh]

Shack

DGPS (GPS with accuracy enhancing positional corrections)

If you mean Differential GPS, it's been used in MoD helos for about 15 years, but don't know about FW. If you don't mean this, apologies.

[racedo]

Sounds like something is in the early stages of being set up........my guess is its China with their harrassing of US Navy.

[reynoldsno1]

This appears to be a report compiled by accountants, so it must be true...

[floatsarmed]

Complete and total knackers. :p

The amount of positioning and industrial equipment that relies upon GPS both in the military and in industry is massive and any loss of function is these days unthinkable. Who dreams up this cack? :rolleyes:

Floats Out.

[Pontius Navigator]

Complete and total knackers. :p

Who dreams up this cack?

Obvious. Anyone who wants to ensure a cash stream.

Clearly there are budgetry pressure. Clearly GPS is a mature system that works. Clearly GPS is in line for budget cut backs.

By releasing such information you start the process of lining the pork barrel.

[green granite]

Perhaps it's got more to do with this?
eLoran

Withheld from the public for two years, since its completion in March 2007, the Independent Assessment Team (IAT) report has been let out of detention, just in time to counter recent efforts by the Obama administration, the Department of Homeland Security, and the U.S. Coast Guard to throttle the program. The IAT “unanimously recommends that the U.S. government complete the eLoran upgrade and commit to eLoran as the national backup to GPS for 20 years." The IAT’s conclusion has long been informally known throughout the GPS industry, but the report’s release adds considerable weight, expertise, and specifics to a long, determined campaign to preserve the program.

The report asserts that "eLoran is the only cost-effective backup for national needs; it is completely interoperable with and independent of GPS, with different propagation and failure mechanisms. . . . It is a seamless backup, and its use will deter threats to U.S. national and economic security by disrupting (jamming) GPS reception."

[Wader2]

GG, possibly quite right. I have an article at home in the Journal of Navigation about the effects of GPS jamming and a comparison of the GPS apparent track with the eLoran track in the jammed sector. The article also illustrates where some ship's courses were overland.

One figure shows GPS errors in the region of 8.1m but it is not clear whether this is miles or meters. Given some of the other illustrations it might well be miles.

I haven't absorbed the full article but it would seem to suggest that a GPs-eLoran combination is a potential solution.

[cazatou]

The roads of the western world will become logjammed with vehicles whose drivers are lost and can't read a map!!

[L'aviateur]

Selective Availability and jamming are realistic. Have been on the receiving end of jamming near Israel and in the Gulf.

[green granite]

I too read that article Wader2 most illuminating and to an extent worrying since aviation seems bent on using it in safety critical areas.

[Brian Abraham]

The US Government Accountability Office report is available here (61 pages) U.S. GAO - Global Positioning System: Significant Challenges in Sustaining and Upgrading Widely Used Capabilities (http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-09-325)
A precis from the site

The Global Positioning System (GPS), which provides positioning, navigation, and timing data to users worldwide, has become essential to U.S. national security and a key tool in an expanding array of public service and commercial applications at home and abroad. The United States provides GPS data free of charge. The Air Force, which is responsible for GPS acquisition, is in the process of modernizing GPS. In light of the importance of GPS, the modernization effort, and international efforts to develop new systems, GAO was asked to undertake a broad review of GPS. Specifically, GAO assessed progress in (1) acquiring GPS satellites, (2) acquiring the ground control and user equipment necessary to leverage GPS satellite capabilities, and evaluated (3) coordination among federal agencies and other organizations to ensure GPS missions can be accomplished. To carry out this assessment, GAO's efforts included reviewing and analyzing program documentation, conducting its own analysis of Air Force satellite data, and interviewing key military and civilian officials.

It is uncertain whether the Air Force will be able to acquire new satellites in time to maintain current GPS service without interruption. If not, some military operations and some civilian users could be adversely affected. (1) In recent years, the Air Force has struggled to successfully build GPS satellites within cost and schedule goals; it encountered significant technical problems that still threaten its delivery schedule; and it struggled with a different contractor. As a result, the current IIF satellite program has overrun its original cost estimate by about $870 million and the launch of its first satellite has been delayed to November 2009--almost 3 years late. (2) Further, while the Air Force is structuring the new GPS IIIA program to prevent mistakes made on the IIF program, the Air Force is aiming to deploy the next generation of GPS satellites 3 years faster than the IIF satellites. GAO's analysis found that this schedule is optimistic, given the program's late start, past trends in space acquisitions, and challenges facing the new contractor. Of particular concern is leadership for GPS acquisition, as GAO and other studies have found the lack of a single point of authority for space programs and frequent turnover in program managers have hampered requirements setting, funding stability, and resource allocation. (3) If the Air Force does not meet its schedule goals for development of GPS IIIA satellites, there will be an increased likelihood that in 2010, as old satellites begin to fail, the overall GPS constellation will fall below the number of satellites required to provide the level of GPS service that the U.S. government commits to. Such a gap in capability could have wide-ranging impacts on all GPS users, though there are measures the Air Force and others can take to plan for and minimize these impacts. In addition to risks facing the acquisition of new GPS satellites, the Air Force has not been fully successful in synchronizing the acquisition and development of the next generation of GPS satellites with the ground control and user equipment, thereby delaying the ability of military users to fully utilize new GPS satellite capabilities. Diffuse leadership has been a contributing factor, given that there is no single authority responsible for synchronizing all procurements and fielding related to GPS, and funding has been diverted from ground programs to pay for problems in the space segment. DOD and others involved in ensuring GPS can serve communities beyond the military have taken prudent steps to manage requirements and coordinate among the many organizations involved with GPS. However, GAO identified challenges to ensuring civilian requirements and ensuring GPS compatibility with other new, potentially competing global space-based positioning, navigation, and timing systems.

[Shack37]

If you mean Differential GPS, it's been used in MoD helos for about 15 years, but don't know about FW. If you don't mean this, apologies.

Tucumseh
That is what I meant but the point I wanted to make is that the Oil and Gas industry use the system a lot and would miss it if it disappeared or accuracy was downgraded. Some support from that direction might be forthcoming if the DoD really were thinking of shutting the system down and threatening their exploration work.
s37

[ProM]

In addition to all the comments above, the US has a large programme rolling out ADS-B for ATC across the US at the moment. As ADS-B requires GPS I suspect that it is likely that they will ensure that GPS keeps going

[Airborne Aircrew]

Have we not learned yet that the finest way to generate funds nowadays is to cry "Crisis"... :rolleyes:

[GreenKnight121]

Especially with a President & Congress throwing money around like confetti.

[[email protected]]

Although Loran in Europe seemed to have died a death with advent of GPS, it appears that the work on eLoran by the USCG might have prompted some similar action here. Last year there was supposed to have been a new aerial constructed in UK (not sure where but might have been Rugby) which is intended to provide the ground signals(like DGPS) to enhance the otherwise average accuracy of Loran.

I don't suppose for an instant that anyone in MoD has been involved as we have the old Loran fitted in the 3A Sea King but with no support contract or database updates!!! The Loran C signals are not reliable now and it may be because the chains are being modified for eLoran. Maybe the Irish will finally erect the Loop Head aerial that was promised and is still (allegedly) in its box next to the proposed site.