Very Funny Story at JNB ORTIA today

[DASHER 8]

There is generally a great deal of moaning and negativity on this forum, so i just had to relate this rather ammusing little incident that happened at OR Tambo today.
We were parked on the charlie ramp today and i saw the fuel truck arrive, but some time later the fuel still was not being pumped on board.
Next the refueller jumps on board and explains that he has tried everything but the fuel just wont pump. I sent my FO out to have a look and see if there was anything obviously wrong on our fuelling panel and she came back into the aircraft laughing her socks off.
The refueller had attached his truck to the fuel point in the ground, but had not attached the pipe to the aircraft, so EISH all our problems were solved! I enjoyed the giggle!:D

[Rusty Shagman]

... I sent my FO out to have a look ... and she came back ...


I suppose she calls you by your first name: CAPTAIN! :}

[tian yu]

haha! Nice...:ok:

[reptile]

I suppose she calls you by your first name: CAPTAIN!

I guess he could have said "So I asked Jane to go and have a look..". But how would we know who the hell Jane is?

Sounds like you have a bit of an issue with authority gradient; i.e. the kind of young, over confident first officer the needs a good re-set in the cockpit.

[groundfloor]

Humour gradient? Your FO - I like that, sound like a good boss - hopefully her socks did`nt smell.:}

[Stierado]

Good grief people...can it not just be a funny story without being disected into CRM, authority, personality or rank issues...:ugh::ugh::ugh:

DASHER 8...thanks for the story....i enjoyed it :ok:

[suitcaseman]

Firstly yes, a very amusing but worrying story. If the refueler is so poorly trained, what does he (or she) know about safety!

Secondly, when I read the story I had the same reaction to many others when I read the words "I sent my F/O out". If that had been worded slightly better it would not have attracted any attention at all.

SA aircrew do seem to have a bit of a hang-up with being called "captain".

[dudleydick]

As a retired ground handler I am horrified at the poor quality of fuelling staff designated for this flight. The Captain needs to make a formal report in the interests of safety.

[DASHER 8]

It was and still is a funny story and for clariffication i usually am not referred to as Captain, and for the record i politely asked my FO to go and have a look at our fuelling issues as it is in line with our company policy that the FO does that task.
It appears the negativity i refered to in my original post is alive and well.
My FO and i both had a good giggle and had no CRM issues either earlier, then or for the rest of an enjoyable pairing so for the moaning grannies out there get a life!!! :ugh:

[suitcaseman]

During CRM training we learn that a very large part of how we communicate with each other is by body language. Email type communication is therefore very open to personal interpretation or mis-interpretation so dont worry about it.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Hell yes-the man says that the slave was a woman and that the pairing was enjoyable- so who gives a golly gosh damn to whom she belongs!

[Stan Woolley]

I think the sensitivity displayed here by some posters is much more of a CRM issue than anything in the original post.

[Goffel]

Incredible....someone shares something that is very amusing and the rest get up in arms because he sent the FO out to have a look.

At least he never sent the hostie out.

Dasher....next time, get the FO to share the story and let her to tell how she sent the captain out to have a look why ....and see what the response is then.

Whichever way you look at it, I think it is amusing....but then again, I do have a warped sense of humour.

Goffel...:8

[Danny1987]

The k word comes to mind!

[SIERRA ECHO XRAY]

Laughing matter for those who think it is......I guess it won't be a laughing matter when he doesn't earth the aircraft and then makes a spill......then it would be a very different story...:( I would immediately contact someone on that department. Thats no laughing matter.:ugh:

[Maurice Chavez]

The guy shares a funny story with us here and all you lot do is bitch and moan... Grow up!!! Earthing the airplane.... Yeah ok.... Most of you don't even know where the earthing points on your own aircraft are.... But amuse me, what do you think will happen if he forgets to earth your airplane??? Nada, nothing!!!!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Interestin perhaps?
There was no fuel tank truck involved at all anyhow apparently.

[suitcaseman]

Well that's a nice professional attitude! What do you think will happen if he:

Over-pressurizes the fuel tanks
De-fuels instread of refuels
Loads contaminated fuel.
Drives the truck into the aircraft. (or allows it to roll)
Drives off without disconnecting the fuel hose (if it ever gets connected)
Has a smoke during refueling
Loads 5000kg instead of 500kg
Etc, etcThat could make a funny story for you! I'm sure most of us do know how to earth an aircraft.

[Maurice Chavez]

Interesting comments you made there suitcase,

1)How does one over pressurize the fuel tanks??? Thought there was this thing called vents....
2)How can he defuel?? Does he go into your flight deck unnoticed and flips boost pumps on, raises a start lever, open the fuel dump panel,etc,etc??
3)Loads contaminated fuel? Ok suppose could happen...
4)Drives the truck into the aircraft or allows it to roll. Well I guess he could manage to park it in to your airplane, but please explain how you roll the truck..
5)Drives off without disconnecting the hose? Have you ever supervised the refueling of your airplane?Obviously not....cause you are, maintenance are to make sure he doesn't.
6)Has a smoke during refueling?Where in his truck under the wing while you're supervising him?
7)Loads 5000Kg instead of 500Kg's?? Errm he doesn't fuel Kilo's but liters and it's your responsibility to ensure the correct uplift was taken.
8)I'm sure most of us know how to earth an aircraft. True, I take that back, should have read:suitcase man doesn't know how to earth his aircraft.

[suitcaseman]

Sorry Maurice but you have just shown your total lack of knowledge and experience.

I know nothing about a Dash 8 but I assume the refueller supplies fuel to other aircraft as well.

The aircraft I fly has a maximum pump pressure to be supplied to the pressure rufueling system of the aircraft and can be de-fueled by applying suction at the truck without any cockpit selection.

Many refueling operators chock their trucks like we do our aircraft so they dont roll should the park brake not hold. I have worked for many airlines, all over the world and never have I seen maintenance supervise refuelling.

The fuel panel on my aircraft is set in Kg and shuts off the refueling process when the required number of Kg have been uplifted. We do check fuel quantity before departing but errors have happend. There is a well known case of an airliner in the States doing a glide approach as it had run out of fuel due to mix-up between pounds and kilograms.

So in summary, let me know if you need me to show you where to earth your microsoft flight simulator. If you ever get to fly a real aeroplane please approach it with a bit more respect for safety.

[Fuzzy Lager]

There is generally a great deal of moaning and negativity on this forum

Never were truer words spoken

[Maurice Chavez]

Sorry Maurice but you have just shown your total lack of knowledge and experience.

Yeah, sorry, I know, I seem to do that a lot.

I know nothing about a Dash 8 but I assume the refueller supplies fuel to other aircraft as well.

Me neither, but you just told me that already, I guess you're right, I'm sure he does fuel other airplanes.

The aircraft I fly has a maximum pump pressure to be supplied to the pressure rufueling system of the aircraft and can be de-fueled by applying suction at the truck without any cockpit selection.

All pressure fueled airplanes have a max pump pressure, yours is no exception, but this vent thingy bothers me. I agree with you, I'm sure your airplane could be defueled without cockpit selection, however there's a little lip next to the pressure refueling point that he'll have to flip over to allow the fuel to come back out through the pressure refueling point.He can't just suck it out, it's sort of a "check valve", you see.

Many refueling operators chock their trucks like we do our aircraft so they dont roll should the park brake not hold. I have worked for many airlines, all over the world and never have I seen maintenance supervise refuelling.

Could very well be that they chock the fuel trucks, makes sense in regards to your "rolling"statement I guess. Not sure what airlines you worked for, in my non existing experience, the airlines in microsoft flight simulator I guess, refueling is done by our line maintenance guys.

The fuel panel on my aircraft is set in Kg and shuts off the refueling process when the required number of Kg have been uplifted. We do check fuel quantity before departing but errors have happend. There is a well known case of an airliner in the States doing a glide approach as it had run out of fuel due to mix-up between pounds and kilograms.

A fuel truck doesn't pump out kilo's or pounds but liters or gallons. The fuel uplift is in liters, not in kilo's. Your fuel quantity will be displayed on gauges in either Kilo or Pounds. The case you're referring to was a 767 known as the "Gimli Glider" and was in Canada, not part of the "states".

So in summary, let me know if you need me to show you where to earth your microsoft flight simulator. If you ever get to fly a real aeroplane please approach it with a bit more respect for safety.

I don't fly microsoft flight simulator, they fired me, but the day they hire me back, I will definitely take you up on that.

[LittleMo]

suitcase, not sure where you fly but I've never seen an aircraft at any of the companies I've worked for being fueled without any sort of supervision from the engineer or someone from the flight deck. Not sure what airlines you worked for but they mut be very trusting of the guy driving the truck to let him pump the juice in unsupervised. What kind of aeroplanes were they? Or what were the names of the airlines?
Here in SA, it's fact that SAA,Comair,1time,Mango and even the old Nationwide wont begin fuelling till the Line Engineer or a pilot is there to supervise.

I don't think it's fair that you accuse Maurice of not knowing what he's talking about. Perhaps he's not familiar with the smaller turbo props as the aircraft he's referring to sounds like the 737. To defuel one, the manual defueling valve must be opened and then in the cockpit boost pumps must be slected as well as the crossfeed valve and the number 2 engine fuel start lever must be moved to 'idle cutoff' postition. If you missed a guy in a yellow reflective vest smelling like Jet-A1 in your cockpit doing all that maybe your next eye test isn't going to go so well...

The fuel is delivered in litres and as the guages are in kilo's the quantity is checked by using the Specific Gravity given by the fuelling company for that day. I believe the formula is Uplift Required (in kilos) divided by the SG. That will give you uplift required in litres. Then you subtract that figure from the actual uplift as on the fuel slip and divide the difference and divide that answer again by the uplift required. Times that answer by 100 and you get a percentage with a positive or negative value. In my company if that precentage is more that 3% a drip test is done to acertain the exact amount of fuel in the tanks. This avoides another 767 on a drag strip....

[falcon12]

Dasher8, your story is funny but provoked some odd replies. So what category does the follwoing fall into? Funny, unfunny, normal, typical etc etc.

Saw a A300F in Iraq recently. Parked with no chocks. Ground crew (6 off) rode up to the freight deck on a fork lift. Fork lift, 5ton capacity, offloaded the pallets with difficulty. Refueller parked under the starboard wing and nobody seemed to notice.

On completion of the unloading, the main freight door wouldn't indicate closed. So the a/c remained on the ground for 3 days before a temporary repair was effected and it flew away!

Now that is NOT funny.

[suitcaseman]

Obviously in the case in point there was no engineer (or pilot supervision) as they would have noticed that there was no fuel line connected to the aircraft. But unfortunately this has once again degenerated into a childish argument about rubbish. The point was simply that the re-fueler is not properly trained and poses a risk to flight safety.

If you disagree with that you should not be flying. Enough said - over and out from me.

[Skillie]

and he is back in his suitcase.:D

[SIERRA ECHO XRAY]

Dear Mr. Chavez,
I am guessing it either your head up ur ass or or vice versa, security and safety comes first in every proffessional pilot. :ugh:

[three eighty]

Dasher
Thanks for the amusing story.
When the aircraft commander or designated crewmember makes the PA announcement, they introduce the crew as Captain or First Officer and nobody gets upset. Why everyone is getting so uptight about your choice of words is beyond me. Perhaps they should get a hobby that doesn't involve pprune.
I am an FO and have no problem being referred to as one. My wife is an ex Hostie / trolley dolley, and after reading this, she reckons some amongst us definately need to take a chill pill.

Again, thanks for the story and I hope that the overwhelming negativity and thread hijacking found here of late, will not deter those who have amusing stories from sharing them with us.
God knows it makes a refreshing change from all the doom and gloom surrounding the industry at the moment.

[Fuzzy Lager]

So tell me Sex, if you are so 'proffessional' why don't you try the 'spelchek'? Or have you some how perfected the art without actually being able to spell the word?

[Der absolute Hammer]

Well, now we will never know if the original story was funny or not because it certainly did not become funny after the telling.
It seems, if you read the first post, that the fuelling was to be done from the underground connections through feeder pipe and storage pits. You cannot defuel into those anyway. The system has its own protection. The method of delivery is typically a Hydrant Refuelling Vehicle, not a fuel truck which description presupposes a tanker.
The Dash 8 - if that is what it were-has its pressure refuelling entry point on the starboard engine nacelle? So can the FO see that from his/her seat-probably yes?
The fuel underground hatches at FAJS are typically deseigned to be under the left wing of an aircraft in relation to the nosewheel park strip guideliner? Just sometimes those hoses are not long enough to reach easily to the right hand side of an aircraft.
That is just some of the triviality ignored by most in a thread which had, by and large, at the end, degenerated into a morass of silly statements.
Danny 1987 had the driving force in a one liner back there.

[shutupanfly]

Gee whizz, good ol', tense, violent, agro JHB getting to you guys!

[Maurice Chavez]

suitcase,

It's obvious you jump to conclusions. That being the professional pilot you are, is somewhat alarming when it comes to flight safety. Has it ever crossed your professional mind that maybe, just maybe, this poor refueler had a brainfart? He had forgotten to hook up the fuel hose, what is so dangerous about that? To me it is a funny story. People like you, like to blow things out of proportion, jump to conclusions (hence my multiple replies to you) and that my professional friend, is a safety thread. Now be a good professional pilot, get back in your suitcase and stay there!

[Rusty Shagman]

Sounds like you have a bit of an issue with authority gradient; i.e. the kind of young, over confident first officer the needs a good re-set in the cockpit.


... or a crusty old 400 left seater who'd rather be flying a 210 outa Maun and who doesn't own anybody and therefore never refers to them as "my/mine." :}