Not a pleasant flight

[frequentflyer2]

I'm deliberately not mentioning the airline involved in what I'm about to describe but I would be interested to know what other people employed as cabin crew think of the following.
Last night my wife and I travelled on a short flight which took off two hours late.
When we finally boarded the aircraft the boarding music was being played at an ear shattering volume.
One member of the cabin crew in particular was obviously p...ed off. I know this because the heels of her shoes were virtually going through the cabin floor as she stamped up and down the aisle.
The force with which she closed the overhead lockers was unbelievable. The bang above our heads actually made us duck. I know they have to be tightly closed but I've travelled on this type of aircraft many times and this was just ridiculous.
The young lady in question performed the safety demonstration in the middle of the cabin just in front of our seats.
When she finished the bit about fastening and unfastening the seat belt she literally threw it on to an empty seat beside her startling the passenger sitting at the window.
She looked as if she had smiled her face would have cracked.
Incidently despite all her banging one of the overhead lockers flew open as the pilot swung on to the runway.
For some reason he started the take off acceleration before making the turn which meant the aircraft's speed was increasing as we turned right and this was enough to make the locker open.
By the way I'm not suggesting the pilot was in any way in the wrong to start accelerating before turning on to the runway. I know nothing about flying an aircraft and I have perfect faith in those at the front.
Shortly after we left the ground the pilot gave the little ding which indicates the cabin crew can leave their seats.
We were immediately told there would be no cabin service as there had been a change of aircraft.
The young lady at the front then made here way to the back to join her colleague slamming the overhead locker closed as she went.
Then the man sitting across the aisle from us got up to go to the lavatory.
It was immediately apparent he was drunk - and I mean drunk.
When he came back he had to hold on to the seats for support and could not find his seat. I had to point it out to him.
This earned me two pats on the back and a thumbs up sign. He tried to focus on me but appeared to be having difficulty.
About this stage the cabin filled with the smell of fish and chips so I assume the no refreshment announcement did not apply to the cabin crew.
The drunk man was fiddling with his mobile phone during the flight. I heard it bleeping and saw it lit up.
After the 10 minutes to landing announcement one of the cabin crew members had to help him fasten his seatbelt.
She did tell him to turn off the phone but I don't know whether he did or not. I think I still heard it bleeping.
He then sat slumped forward in his seat falling asleep at times.
We landed and my wife and I were among the last to leave. He was still sitting asleep.
Should he have been allowed to board? Shouldn't we have been less aware of bad temper on the part of the cabin crew? Was this really an ideal in flight experience?
I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

[jettesen]

I think you have experienced what they call the "iceberg theory" meaning that you have no idea of the background as to why that crew member was angry. There could have been many reasons for this, but she should have kept her profesionalisim and kept it out of the cabin. Letting a drunk on board is a difficult one......many people board looking ok, but when the air pressure hits them, they can appear to be way over the limit!!!! Air pressure works in strange ways... the say 1 in the air is the equivelent of having 3 on the ground. If they were pressured with time constraints, then it would be wuicker to keep him on and go, rather than to take another delay and look for his bags when he is offloaded. And for such a short flight, ( i.e BFS-GLA/EDI (20 mins )) It really isn't worth the hassle - not saying its right tho


For such a short flight, yes there would be no refreshments available, but you have to remember, the cabin crew are stuck on that aircraft for many hours, without getting the opportunity for a break, or even getting off to buy food, so yes, they are entitled to eat and drink aven when there is no service to the pax. They do need to eat also. They could have been on that aircraft for 8 hrs before you came on. But if the service was shoddy, write to the airline concerned, and voice your concerns.

[tigger2k8]

everyone has bad days in their careers...

was it a 737 or a 319 you eventually got on? If its a 737 no doubt that crew member is fed up of their aircraft going tech, as the 737 fleet of the airline i think you flew with is falling apart at the minute..

[jettesen]

If you are talking about EZY, their 737s are only 6 yrs old!! Hardly falling apart!!!! Try flying on BA's 15 year old 737s. Now THAT is falling apart!!!

[glad rag]

Try flying on BA's 15 year old 737s. Now THAT is falling apart!!!

Cabins are tired and shoddy, never been tech once with them though??? Cabin crew have always been above the mark.

[L337]

Try flying on BA's 15 year old 737s. Now THAT is falling apart!!!

So are you saying that flying on BA's 737s is dangerous because they are "falling apart"?

Falling apart is a serious accusation.

If they are falling apart I think you must inform the CAA that BA does not service, or maintain the 737s. Indeed I look forward to most of the 737, 747, 757, 767 fleets all being grounded as they must all also be "falling apart" as they are also largely over 15 years old. In fact most of the worlds airline fleet needs to be grounded, as they must also all be "falling apart". Clearly you have amazing insight and powers of observation. Or your post, THAT IS rubbish

[tigger2k8]

ok, forgive the expression "falling apart" i didnt think people would actually think i meant bits falling off..., ill reword it... "getting old" ive lost count of the number of different 737s that have needed an airstart due to APU problems in the last month, usually it wud be the odd a/c every month, but in the last month theres been atleast 4 different a/c (KA, KG (which also had a problem with engine 2, was u/s for a day or 2, JX and KF) which seem to take it in turns to have problems


but thats slightly going off-topic now, i only brought it up as i knew of EZY having a/c problems on some of the BFS routes

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

L337 I think you know exactly what was meant, loose trim and shoddy seats etc. Like the inside of a high mileage car. Your reply is well O.T.T.

JSP

[8846]

You and your wife have had a bad experience - it does happen.

There could be many reasons for the attitude of the cabin crew member - could have been forced to do extra sectors despite many long delays throughout the day - different crew members react differently to these situations. She could have been leant on heavily to accept an unscheduled night stop when she was expecting to spend the night out with her boyfriend/mates..who knows..? But it is unprofessional and shouldn't happen.

As far as the piloting/serviceabilty of the aircraft aspects are concerned it is quite normal to 'take it on the roll' - as long as the speed/angle of the turn is not too high. The apu is not required for a safe flight - quite normal to fly w/o one - just makes the start a bit more involved - no big deal and certainly not an indication of a poorly serviced a/c - unless it happens a lot...

The crew are very often presented with drunk pax who have been allowed to board by the gate staff and as was said above, it's quicker to carry on rather than offload at this stage.

The very cheap fares are possible these days because the crew are squeezed hard on time and meal breaks so at least you don't have to pay a fortune AND have a bad flight.

I'm sorry that the trip wasn't good - you should write to the customer service dept - if they don't know about it they can't do anything.

[jettesen]

GLAD RAG

Care to explain as to why there are several 737s sitting outside the BA hanger at LGW every morning??? Surely theyy don't just sit there if there's nothing wrong with them...........considering you only have about 6 or 7 left at LGW ......doesn't look very good does it!!!!! lol

[8846]

Could be several reasons..

Cheaper to park them there than elsewhere at KK?

Routine maintenance?

To keep the gates free for early deps?

[girtbar]

Cabin crew are working longer and longer hours, with more pressure put on them to operate into days off, overtime etc.

Girls heels always make them sound like they're stomping about on the hollow cabin floor!

If it is a 319 you where flying there are two cabin types, the older ones have locker doors that need a bit more of a thump to close than the newer even more plastic types, but the actual variation of the a/c type is subtle enough you might not notice the change.

Like someone said earlier there is a bit of an iceberg theory going on here, if it is indeed U2 that you where flying the said crew member might have had an international (EU) flight before hand, then an a/c change which really is stressful for the cabin crew (not so much flight deck). The Cabin crew would have to prepare one a/c for landing, then get on another prepare that one whilst aware of an ongoing delay and trying to do it as quick as possible.

Second point to the Iceberg theory is that Cabin Crew don't get breaks. Transport is exempt from this. So your cabin crew member might all have been on the go for 11hrs, no break, pressured into overtime and all whilst the company management of said airline is telling the crew your not working hard enough, don't deserve crew food and we'll take a bonus now.

As for the drunk man, unless he's a threat its sometimes better to let them on board than cause more trouble trying to offload them.

Not excusing unprofessional behaviour but perhaps a little more backround info for you. Enjoy your low fares......;)

[Classic]

then an a/c change which really is stressful for the cabin crew (not so much flight deck).

Would you care to explain?

[8846]

Yes..I thought that too..

Explanation please?

[bondim]

If you have an unexpected a/c change that you find out about sometimes 20mins before landing, the crew has to close the bar (sometimes manually counting the whole thing plus cash), clean the aircraft after disembarkation then go to the other a/c and possibly clean that as well, all the while carrying out safety duties too. Try this in 20-30 mins and see how stressed you feel. Plus not all crew have a lot of experience in this, and if your purser is not a great organizer, th whole thing could end up in a huge chaos.

Try this in the heat of summer in say Alicante, without air conditioning (save fuel), in the middle of an 11 hour duty, looking forward to a nice minimum rest that has just been reduced by 2 hours due to the delay you had no control over, not even getting paid for the overtime and try to smile and be pleasant afterwards.

I agree tht professional atitude should be displayed at all times, but please understand that cabin crew are just regular humans, not super-humans. I, at least try my very best at all tmes, and if I do not provide excellent service on occasion, trust me it is not down to lack of my skills.

And if this airline involved is indeed a low-cost airline, I am afraid you might just get an overworked and "low-cost" cabin crew/service. You, as a "low-cost" airline pax did not pay enough for the crew to be looked after well, or at least some airline management likes to think so.

[8846]

Yup - know all that - and I know it's hard, but the presumption that what f/d have to do for a late a/c change is less stressful is a little...well, presumptious.

[frequentflyer2]

It wasn't Ezy it was Flybe and the aircraft was a Dash 8 400 series.
The drunk man certainly wasn't violent but he was fiddling with his mobile phone during the flight and at times it was not off as it should have been.
This was a concern because it has been said many times that mobile phones can interfere with aircraft systems. That is part of the safety briefing at the start of the flight.
On the other hand I suppose it could have been one with a flight safe mode for certain functions.
But it did bleep as if text messages were being received.
I do have another question about this flight but I'll put it on the passengers and slf forum.

[Matt101]

GLAD RAG

Care to explain as to why there are several 737s sitting outside the BA hanger at LGW every morning??? Surely theyy don't just sit there if there's nothing wrong with them...........considering you only have about 6 or 7 left at LGW ......doesn't look very good does it!!!!! lol

I believe BA has several parked for the downturn at the moment - also they are returning many to the lessors (as the airbus replaces them at LGW) so they will be in to "de-BA" them.

They also have more than 6 or 7 left.... 19 734's (BA's aircraft) and 3 due back to lessors at the end of 2009 - think that makes 22 :rolleyes:

[CornishFlyer]

Also, you should realise that it isn't the SAME few 737's outside the hangar. They are there for routine maintenance. This morning when I drove past, there was an A319 there too. You're theory is pants.

As a side note, the condition of the BA 737's is a lot better than the EZY 737's. Having operated on both, I'd much rather be on a 15 yr old BA 734 than an 5 yr old EZY 737. Of course both pale in significance to the 319 :ok: It's just down to how the airline's look after their a/c. EZY have their planes in the sky a lot longer and no cleaning after each turnaround except that done by the crew. BA have longer turnaround times which will included a proper clean and so stay in a better condition longer

[BobHead]

I am still amazed that when you pay less to fly than just about any other mode of transport that people still expect 1950's BOAC service from Cabin Crew. I regularly fly Spain to UK on Ryan, EasyJet, Monarch, Air Berlin, BA etc. I expect no more service than I would get on a bus or long distance coach.

I recently flew Spain to UK to San Francisco to Auckland to Christchurch to Auckland to Brisbane to Perth to Singapore to UK to Spain stopping over at all destinations cost £1300 or £130 a leg to go around the world. No doubt if I had tried and used different destinations I could have done it cheaper.

"Simples" you get what you pay for. Cheap and often not so cheerful or spend out and go First or Business.

Bob (Cattle Class Regular):ugh:

[Dolley]

I don't know about flybe but many airlines permit mobile phones to be switched on during the flight as long as they have been switched to flight mode (they still need to be switched off for take-off and landing).

Unfortunately, there is no way for cabin crew to tell easily if the phone is on flight mode or not and if there is no specific reason there is no way how crew could check every phone.

I personally disagree with the policy and think they should be all switched off. Makes it easier and safer for everyone. But I'm not making these decisions so the only thing left to do is to only check if I spot or hear something that gives me an idea that the phone might be not in flight mode.

[Biggles225]

A few years ago I was part of a group on a 'guided tour' of BA at Heathrow. Of the various briefings that stick in my mind one appropriate to this topic must be 'Cabins are maintained to a standard such that a passenger entering an aircraft should not know whether they are in the oldest or newest aircraft in the fleet'.
I know you can take that two ways, (one of us did and had to buy the drinks at lunch :O) but I think generally they maintain the expected high standard, even on the 'old' 737s which are now my chariot of choice. And thanks to the crews too, not only for the champagne.

(Now can I have my upgrade .... please?)

[SLF3b]

On one flight I was on I asked to see the CSD and told him one of his colleagues needed a break. Didn't say anything else, just left it there. Didn't see her again for the rest of the flight. As I disembarked she stopped me, grinned, and said 'thank you'. Anyone can have a bad day.

[JWP1938]

I've had a couple (not many) of flights where maybe one of the CC was really unpleasant but I guess, as already said, anyone can have a bad day. I have never reported it and never would unless things got really out of hand. Now, if it was an issue concerning safety.......

[frequentflyer2]

'I am still amazed that when you pay less to fly than just about any other mode of transport that people still expect 1950's BOAC service from Cabin Crew. I regularly fly Spain to UK on Ryan, EasyJet, Monarch, Air Berlin, BA etc. I expect no more service than I would get on a bus or long distance coach.
I recently flew Spain to UK to San Francisco to Auckland to Christchurch to Auckland to Brisbane to Perth to Singapore to UK to Spain stopping over at all destinations cost £1300 or £130 a leg to go around the world. No doubt if I had tried and used different destinations I could have done it cheaper.
"Simples" you get what you pay for. Cheap and often not so cheerful or spend out and go First or Business.'

Sorry. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I don't expect BOAC 1950's service on a 25 minute flight from GLA to BHD.
A paid for snack and bar service is normally provided on this route.
Even on 'a bus or long distance coach' I think you would be a little peeved if someone hurled a seat belt buckle with force on to the seat beside you and banged things around deliberately loudly above your head.
The flights were booked just under two weeks before travel and the return fare per person was £119. Not that cheap really.
Even if I was so inclined there aren't any business or first class seats available between GLA and BHD.
On Monday Mrs FF and I flew to Stansted from BHD with Ryanair, returning yesterday (Tuesday evening).
Once again a paid for snack and bar service but on both occasions delivered by friendly smiling cabin crew. That's all I ask.

[tiggerific_69]

FrequentFlyer2

Have you tried closing the lockers on the Dash? They're awful, and more often than not, you have to bang them shut so that they stay shut - as you saw one came open - common occurrence on the dash.
Having catering removed from the aircraft is a pain in the ass, especially when it is last minute. There is a lot of paperwork that needs to be done to accompany the bars when they are removed from the aircraft, and at short notice it is extra stress - especially when it is a manual bar and there are no computers on board.
I doubt that the crew member would have been purposely stomping up and down the cabin - the floors are pretty hollow underneath and so that can make a difference to the sound of someone walking up and down the cabin in heels as opposed to flat shoes.
I also very much doubt that the crew would have had fish and chips. Maybe it was a fellow passenger who had some kind of hot food that they had purchased in the terminal? It is a rareity to have the chance to get off the aircraft on turnaround to get food, and more often than not it would be a sandwich as opposed to hot food, as not everywhere in airport terminals do take away hot food.
As for the mobile phone - it should be switched off. Why he wasn't told - I don't know. Maybe he was told, but was so drunk he didn't understand? It may have been that he seemed fine upon boarding - once you are airborne, the altitude can enhance the effects of alcohol very quickly, thus making him seem more drunk.
If the boarding music is too loud, then please don't hesitate to ask for it to be turned down. Most of us dislike it, but have no choice about playing it. And also it's difficult to gauge how loud it is in the cabin when you're stood next to an open door with lots of aircraft noise blocking it out.
As you also mentioned, your flight was two hours late. It's a possibility that the crew had had their duty extended. There has been disruption recently, and they have been doing this to people, and when you're tired and have been working hard, haven't seen your family/friends, have had to cancel plans, it does annoy you. Especially when you don't get any thanks for working over. We have to suffer the delays and sit in the airport too. A lot of the time, when there are delays, passengers are rude towards cabin crew, even though the delay is not personally our fault, passengers treat it as if it is. It could be weather or technical problems, something that is out of our hands. When you're trying to be nice to people, and all you get back is rudeness, it's very demoralising and makes you wonder why you bother in the first place.
I hope this answers some of your questions and makes you see things from a different perspective. And I hope that next time, you have a much better flight

[crewmeal]

'I am still amazed that when you pay less to fly than just about any other mode of transport that people still expect 1950's BOAC service from Cabin Crew

It depends on what you mean by service. If you mean manners and being approachable and friendly then yes, what's wrong with that? If you mean product that is offered, then times have certainly changed.

I was on a BMI flight to the Middle East recently when this family of 3 were abused by a French Stewardess because the child was sitting in a seat and not on the mother's lap. She tore into this poor woman and threatened to have her 'offloaded' if she didn't put the child on her lap. Now I know many people from the Middle East don't speak much English and probably wouldn't understand the verb offload, but her body language and gestures were insulting to say the least. If I'd spoken to someone like that when I was flying I'd have been out the door.

[cwatters]

Is it possible she knew the overheads pop open unless slammed shut?

[wobble2plank]

I love some of the rubbish on this thread!

737's parked in front of hangars must make them 'broken' and 'falling to bits'.

Lockers open unless 'slammed' annoyingly above passengers heads.

Cabin crew have a harder time with an aircraft change than flight crew.

Where does all this come from?

The 737's are parked at LGW for ROUTINE maintenance. As BA has a maintenance turnround facility at LGW south of the main they, oddly enough, do the work there. Any major defect rectification involving the flight worthiness of the airframe is normally conducted at GLA. You don't see many other carriers doing maintenance at LGW as they farm it out to outside contractors abroad mostly. E.g. Jet 2 has most of it's main maintenance sub contracted in Bucharest (main hangar to the east of the apron between 08L and 08R).

Lockers can be closed and then 'firmly but gently' pushed until they 'click' secure. Oddly enough, as most pax are asked to close them when full and don't, the 'slam' method comes to the fore as a 'why don't you do as your told' reminder.

Best of all the CC have it harder than the FC on an aircraft change! Love this. Close, inventory and lock the bars. Shame. Change aircraft type? Possible 737-300/400/500/800? Could be. A319/320/321 Also a possibility. Different aircraft weights, loads, cargo. Require new manifests, flight plans, load sheets. Differing weights could require different fuel loads, diversions. Opdefs need careful consideration as to the route, cruise alt and available diversions. Etc. Etc. Etc. So where does the 'harder' come in? Possibly better to say it is a pain for both the flight crew and the cabin crew but for differing reasons.

Careful what you post.

[Michael Birbeck]

I have never wandered onto this forum before and am not a cabin crew member but was taken aback by some of the posts here. IMHO there is no justification for anyone to slam anything or stamp up and down an aircraft like some prima donna. I appreciate that the pressures and irritations may be great but surely professionalism, no matter what the underlying issues are, should be the watchword. If someone can't show a calm demeanour at the outset how likely are they to maintain a calm organised approach when the chips are really down, like in an aircraft evacuation in the face of an aircraft fire for example.

As for the comment


Lockers can be closed and then 'firmly but gently' pushed until they 'click' secure. Oddly enough, as most pax are asked to close them when full and don't, the 'slam' method comes to the fore as a 'why don't you do as your told' reminder.



I partly agree. Truth is most people would close them but don't appreciate that they are full or expect one or more people after them to use the locker. Slamming the locker as 'why don't you do as your told' reminder is surely just puerile and sets the tone for an antagonistic approach from all who witnessed the "example".

[AirborneSoon]

That is assuming of course that the original post was a completely objective, emotionally detached and factual account of events. It is human nature to recall events coloured by our own reactions and perceptions at the time.

Everyone has a different idea on what it slamming, what is throwing etc... My neighbours have relatives that sound like an invading army everytime they visit. I am extremely annoyed by the loud banging and yelling in the apartment block. Yet my neighbours think this is perfectly normal behaviour.They even encourage the grandchild yell at the top of his lungs because they are delighted by it and think it's entertaining. I often wonder what planet they are from. :rolleyes:

As I said, personal perception is everything and it's possible that these events are larger in the poster's eyes then they were to others on the same flight. It's all a matter of what pushes your personal buttons.

As far crew eating when there is no service to passengers? Hardly wrong, crew don't get meal breaks and rarely have a chance to eat anything at all. If they have a few minutes in which to consume their only meal of the day then so be it. If there was an aircraft change and a delay it's highly likely that catering was not loaded (it's often cut to try and make up time and not cause further delays) and that is the real reason why a service was not provided.

[Michael Birbeck]

As far crew eating when there is no service to passengers? Hardly wrong, crew don't get meal breaks and rarely have a chance to eat anything at all. If they have a few minutes in which to consume their only meal of the day then so be it. If there was an aircraft change and a delay it's highly likely that catering was not loaded (it's often cut to try and make up time and not cause further delays) and that is the real reason why a service was not provided.


True but stupid to actually be seen eating in front of the passengers when you have just told them that the cupboard is bare.

Think people, think :ugh:.

[Virginia]

How is it stupid for crew to eat their own food?

[wobble2plank]

How is it stupid for crew to eat their own food?

I think it is referring to the perception given to the passengers that although they, as paying passengers, have no meal, the crew do.

I don't have a problem with this if the crew have either bought their own crew food or have had one trolley with the crew catering loaded. However, as has been intimated by the previous post, a little care and forethought should be applied by not eating your food during the flight in sight of the, potentially hungry, fare paying passengers. Perhaps slide the curtain across if fitted or wait until the turn round?

Where has common sense disappeared to in the last 10 years? Please come back!

[AirborneSoon]

I believe the kind of common sense you are talking about was removed by airline management around the same time they removed the cabin dressers and 45min turns..:rolleyes: Don't know about you but there is no time on my turnarounds to eat anything, too busy pulling snotty tissues out of seat pockets and cleaning up vomit before the next load of pax board.

Trust me, it's not my choice to consume a meal standing up in a galley where a sensitive passenger might be offended by my consumption of actual food. But policies like not being allowed to draw a galley curtain, having barely enough time to pull rubbish out of aisles before boarding the next flight and no controlled rest don't assist my ability to hide the shameful act of eating. :=

:ugh:

[Virginia]

You are totally right, let's just replace the cabin crew with robots.:rolleyes:

It also sounds like a very short flight-do people really need to eat? Unlike the crew who may have done a 12.5 hour working day. People moan when food is provided for being poor quality...then moan when they do get fed. Interesting.

[Matt101]

I'm sorry guys but I really have to jump to the defence of our colleagues here.

a little care and forethought should be applied by not eating your food during the flight in sight of the, potentially hungry, fare paying passengers. Perhaps slide the curtain across if fitted or wait until the turn round?

Wobble, one can assume in this situation that as the crew are delayed, and as they also work for a loco, they could have been without the chance to eat for some time - pax will be on the aircraft on the sector in question for no time at all - if they are disappointed they couldn't eat the soggy £5 sandwich (no offence to Flybe I think it is a side effect of being wrapped and chilled - all airline food is pretty naff) may I suggest they could have purchased a cheaper nicer meal on the ground - the crew don't often have this luxury, nor, on the Dash 8 in this operation, are they likely to have had the luxury of eating on turn around.

Subtlety is a great idea but on such a small aircraft not exactly a possibility.

I appreciate that the pressures and irritations may be great but surely professionalism, no matter what the underlying issues are, should be the watchword.

And then there is the real world where people have problems in their lives, and decibels caused by closing an overhead locker, and the "distress" that causes to a passenger, really pale to insignificance if we thought about it. If people took a more sympathetic view in general in this world perhaps we would all get on a lot better.

I'm sorry MB but if you are able to wear a smile no matter what has happened then you are better man than me..... we all have limits, we should aim to be, as you say, as "professional" as possible, at all times, but equally as passengers we should appreciate cabin crew are people not machines.

[bright star]

Im sorry everyone but i have to jump into the defence here...the flybe crew would have more than likely worked a 6 sector day ..which could have taken their day up to nearly a 15hour duty if they were late by 2 hours.

Regarding crew eating ,they only get crew food if they work over a 6 hour duty so i think after going without food for 6 hours they are entitled to grab something to eat..they are only human

Boarding music,well its a pain but we are told to play it and yes i know its not to everyone taste but we cant please everyone.

No bar service for the passengers due to aircraft swop...this is a nightmare as 90% of the time the flights are manual bars and the paperwork is hell.you have to shut a bar down which is ALOT of work on short flights,then disembark passengers..check the cabin ,do seat pockets ,have a handover to another crew,jump onto another aircraft, do security check,seatpockets,check and organise catering prepare paperwork and board passengers all within 20mins of landing...

Overhead lockers well they are a pain but passengers are the worst offenders they stuff them full ,dont care how they put their items in and then leave us to try get them shut when they are crammed full.plus how many times have you seen a passenger reach into an overhead locker and leave it open midflight.

The Dash is a very noisy a/c and i leave it to the flight deck when it comes to pushback,speed and runways as they are the experts and will not do anything delibrately to endanger anyone

Also regarding the stroppiness of the crew well if that was true then they are out of order as it costs nothing to be polite but please dont be quick to judge as i can guarantee they have taken alot of abuse already for the flight being delayed ,and being spoken to like a piece of trash does get you down...iv even had passengers complaining that we are arriving early....sometimes we just cant win...but finally i do apologise that you had a bad experience but i promise that was a rare one as the vast majority of the crew and flight deck are lovely.

[Michael Birbeck]

My ex wife complains the same way.

With respect to the crew.

We all should have respect.

II am not perfect. Damn it we are human beings after all, but we can at least try :-).

With respect.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Think 'IT'S TIME' the CAA put their 'Foot Down' with the 'Loco's and how they are 'Racing' around like 'Mad People' to get their jobs done in an 'Unsafe' and 'Dangerous' manner.

Their is 'No possible way' an average human being can work upto 14 hours without getting tired, Moody, And maybe sometimes unsafe when operating a flight without 'Adequate food & rest'?

So really, I think the CAA should lay down the law to EZY, FR, LS etc and demand that they 'Allow' - a big word - at least 30 minutes for an aircraft to be 'Safely' turned around on a gate?

What is happening is EZY & FR especially are 'Operating Dangerously' and getting away with making their crews 'Race' around upto their threshold levels just to earn the 'Big bosses' more money etc.

There should be some kind of CAA law which dictates at least 30 minutes, Not 25, Not 20 or even 15 minutes a simple 30 minutes to 'Allow' for the operation to run safely.

If the CAA does not do anything about this ongoing problem, Then it is only time before a 'Major' accident/incident will happen, And then who will be injured and killed then = The pax and the hardworking crew & Airport staff - Not the MD & Board of dictators!!

FR are flouting the 20 or even 15 minute turnarounds and nobody ie the Airport or even the CAA are expressing concerns about safety?

The situation will never improve if there is no concerns expressed by the appropriate management at the CAA or the airports themselves.

There are only 24 hours in a day - Everybody needs to 'Slow down' and perform their jobs in a timescale that is smooth & safe for everyone on the flight.

Not many pilot's can 'THOROUGHLY' do the walkround check, Scan the cockpit instruments, Check the Nav & weather etc, And the constant paperwork to go with it in 20 minutes surely?

If they do, Then it 'Beggars belief' that there has been no 'Major' accidents upto press (Anyway)!!

The walkround is nearly 10 minutes on it's own if done 'Thoroughly'

I have heard of some flight crews 'Not bothering' to do a walkround on certain sectors in a busy day?

I'm not surprised at that, Given that they are on this 'Appauling' time limitation from their bosses who are sat in their 'Comfy' offices!!

So really, To 'Race' around doing your job is putting everyone including yourself at risk of an incident or even a 'Major' incident?

I agree CC should display a good character if not all of the time, But when they work for a 'Loco' then there patience is pressed even more than what it would be working as CC in general.

The other potential 'Knock-on' effect is when they eventually finish work and go and get in their car, They are tired, Pi**ed off, And maybe not concentrating 100% on their actual driving?

What happens then - BANG!! they are involved in an RTA on the way home, And this could involve other innocent people?

So my message is that I think it's time the CAA channeled their interests at EZY FR & the other loco's who are 'Slave' driving their crews upto 14 hours a day 'Roll on - Roll off'.

To those who are 'Happy' or disagree with what I am saying to race around operating a 'Public' service flight then I think it is only a matter of time before a disaster strikes?

That's most of the 'Non loco carriers' 'Allow' time to turnaround a 17 million pound 757 in 1 hour and 15 minutes - Not 20 minutes!!

(I would rather land 10 minutes late than land 10 minutes dead!!)

So the solution is what I have just said.

You have a 90% chance of making a mistake when you are in a rush??

CAA = PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN!!

[Matt101]

MB - I'm glad, I'm not perfect either!

By Alpha - can I ask who you are quoting or is that just a lot of bunny rabbit ears?

[boardingpass]

Alpha, your rant is ridiculous. In my loco company, all cabin crew and pilots I've seen perform their safety and security related duties diligently. Yes, there is time pressure, but that does not mean we cut corners.

Where did you pluck 30 mins from anyway?? The turn around has been analyzed so that all pre flight duties can be performed in the available time. If the aircraft lands late, it takes off late too because all the pre-flight duties need to be carried out and there is no 'spare' time factored in.

Adequate crew rest between duties, food/drink, duty times, max flying hours per week/month/year etc are separate issues to turn around times. There's some good legislation, and some which could be improved... But I don't really think it's appropriate to this thread though.

[frequentflyer2]

OK. Now I'm going to make myself very very unpopular but before I do could I just say I really appreciate what cabin crew do; I fully appreciate they are there primarily for my safety and I always thank them as I leave the aircraft.
I also understand they have to deal with some very unpleasant passengers and I do not expect them to stand at the front and sing 'Welcome Home' with beatific smiles on their faces like Peters and Lee (most of you are probably too young to remember them) every time I fly.
HOWEVER, let me ask you all a question.
How would you feel under the following circumstances?
You book an overnight stay with your partner at a nice hotel paying the full cost of £218 in advance.
You arrive at the restaurant for breakfast only to be told there's going to be a two hour delay for 'hotel operational reasons'.
When you eventually get into the dining room the waiter or waitress stamps up and down and after showing you the buffet chucks a cup on to a chair beside you.
He or she then proceeds to bang cupboard doors as loudly as possible and announces there will be no tea or coffee because his or her work rota has been mucked up in some way and there was no time to organise it.
You nip out to visit the bathroom and on the way back see the waiting staff sitting at the rear of the dining room enjoying a cup of tea or coffee.
You mildly query the situation and you're told to remember these people have had to work longer hours than expected, are tired, haven't had any refreshments and because of these circumstances have missed time with their friends and families.
Be honest. How would you feel?

[wobble2plank]

To be honest, if on a Loco carrier 12 hour day you do not have any time throughout the day to take a short break to be able to comfortably eat a meal away from the work environment then you have a serious company rostering issue that needs to be taken up with the company.

Such tight rostering issues are both illegal and immoral. All employers have a legal mandate to afford you, the employee, adequate breaks throughout the working day. Anything else where you get worked constantly without breaks is a flight safety hazard that should be taken up, through the Captain (who IS responsible) to the company management.

Failure to do so becomes the individuals problem as they are not bringing the issue to the notice of the company. I have had to delay flights due to the CC requiring a break to get lunch/dinner etc. Whilst it can be annoying it is also a requirement which I see as good leadership from the senior CC member looking after their team on my behalf.

[Matt101]

ff2 - as my nav instructor always said - apples with apples - airplanes are not hotels.

I'm not saying your experience was acceptable but your perception of the situation may have differed from someone else's. As I said before nobody is perfect and the crew may not have been on this occasion but, we all have bad days, and I am sure you wouldn't like to be judged on one of yours. That's why people may get defensive here.

£218 for 2? hmmmmm it costs that for a return train to London from where I used to live in the South West and I was lucky to get a seat. For your money, gravity was defied, and you, your wife(?), tons of metal and fuel, and nearly 100 other people were carried through the air at over 300kts at 25000 feet above the ground, safely - as I say apples with apples please. The fact that people think that is expensive for a flight it the very reason air travel is not what it used to be (and why some, who were about during Imperial Airways days, complain about today's air travel.) - I don't blame you - I blame Air South West. (Sorry pet peeve not really relevant).

[AirborneSoon]

Frequent Flyer, surely you're not implying that the purpose of your flight was to "enjoy a meal"? Because honestly I can think of 200 other places I'd rather eat than on an aircraft. :yuk:

But to answer your question, if I had paid 200 odd pounds to stay in a hotel then discovered the breakfast service was rubbish or non-existent I would simply walk out and buy my breakfast somewhere nicer. I wouldn't feel too put out as the money I paid was for the bed, not the meal. If the room was good and I had a good sleep hang the breakky. Likewise if I'd paid over a hundred pounds for a flight I'd realise it's the journey I'm paying for not the lukewarm cuppa in a paper cup.

I'm not one to dwell on things much. I've had appauling service in just about every kind of business you can imagine as a customer and always I just shrug my shoulders, walk away and find somewhere better. It's the nature of life for things to go awry and I try to look for the positive in everything.

[Juud]

ff2, not sure if you are deliberately not understanding what people are saying, or if you are honestly not getting the point here.

If the latter, this article might broaden your understanding of the realities at play in modern civil aviation. link (http://www.essortment.com/articles/plane-ticket-changed_7197.htm)
Another thought; yes it was less than perfect. Did you contact the airline to let them know? And if so, what answer did you recieve?

Wobble2, theory and practice are sadly 2 different things.
A less than ideal reality often exacerbated by the fact that national regulatory bodies are underfunded, understaffed and often 'in the pocket' of airline management.
Add to that the current atmosphere of job insecurity and your post sounds faintly pie in the sky.

Also, keep in mind that while labour relations in YOUR company are such that CC can demand and get a lunch break, this is not the case in the vast majority of short haul airlines today.
SH reality is maximum allowable work days, continuous time pressure, no company provided food and certainly no mandated breaks to consume whatsoever.
And a quick tea no bics for any CC (or pilot) upsetting the apple cart with such outrageous demands.

[groundbum]

the original poster might want to complain about the stroppy cabin crew, but why not also think that if she was stroppy as she was ill, tired or really not wanting to work the flight when imposed on her at the last minute. She could have declined the duty due sick or whatever, and then probably the flight would have been cancelled or delayed even further!

So in a way you should be grateful you got going and got to your destination safely with just a 2 hour delay!

G

[GroundedSLF]

FF2 - surley to God you can go an hour without food or a drink! If not, then you had plenty of time at the airport to purchase both before your flight.

Airport terminal catering can be no more overpriced or tasty than an airline served "snack".

Crew should be polite and profesional - but they are human. You dont know the reason why she was upset. (if in fact she was)...

Give the girl a break - what did she actually do? Close some lockers loudly :eek:, walked in a "non relaxed" manner down the aisle :eek:, "throw" a seatbelt into an empty seat (now - how did she throw it? If she raised it in her hand and then forcibly ensured it was projected into a vacant seat at high velocity, then thats bad - or did she just "toss" it ie underhand, into a spare seat to free her hands before demonstrating the mask?)

And then to top it all - the music was too loud :eek:

Take a deep breath and put things into perspective:)

[Matt101]

I just wanted to expand by sharing with you a personal experience during my time as Cabin Crew - I'm not CC now by the way but the experience has left me with a respect for the people who undertake the role.

We were night stopping in XXX and were picked up from the hotel at a not unreasonable 10am. We arrived at the airport which was experiencing a bad snow storm, as was our base airport, this had resulted in our airline which operates a number of flights each day to and from XXX having several rolling delays due to movement restrictions. As it turns out our aircraft had not even left base yet. As we were handled by an agent at XXX our arrival in uniform put us squarely in the pax firing line. Thankfully XXX airport has lovely views of the apron so many pax could see the problem, however, at least 20 people proceeded to shout at me (and more at my fellow crew), as they did not believe that weather was a sufficient excuse.

Unfortunately our delay rolled to an impressive (!) 4 1/2 hours, thankfully most people were just happy to get out at all. However in that time, as you can imagine, our duties had extended beyond what we were expecting on our first sector of the day but we did manage to keep it "professional".

We returned to base expecting to be told our short two sectors had been re-crewed, however, what we actually found out was that we were picking up some already delayed passengers to take to a destination which would result in a significantly longer two sectors. However we had to do our job.

We got to a new aircraft prepped it boarded passengers who had already been delayed for 2 hours to be told that our base airport had had to close the runway due to the weather for an indefinite amount of time. We continued to provide a ground service with extra food and drinks brought to us but needless to say the situation still went down badly with the passengers - many became abusive and downright rude despite much effort to try and explain the situation.

Personally I was wondering how I was going to get home on return to the UK as I commute a significant distance by train and was expecting to clear after midnight as opposed to 1600 as I was rostered - which meant I hadn't made any hotel reservations as I would usually have done for a late flight. With the prospect of not having anywhere to sleep in my mind I was also being shouted at. I admit my smile faded significantly and my patience dropped somewhat.(and we still hadn't had our last sector which was much the same).

So a 14 hour day (cumulative delays to my roster of over 6 hours) passed full of abuse and me having to crash on the floor of a friends' house who was nice enough to let me in at 2am.

Not a typical day in my career but also not an isolated event - and as a human my ability to smile no matter what had left me entirely.

[frequentflyer2]

OK everyone! I'm sorry. Point taken. I was being a little flippant and I've no intention of making an official complaint about anyone.
Having recently been made redundant after 26 years continuous employment as a journalist (is that a chorus of boos and hisses I hear) I do understand what it's like to have to work extra hours when you have other arrangements made.
I just felt this young lady's behaviour was perhaps a little extreme but then as you correctly point out I don't know what other worries she faced last Friday.
You're also quite right to point out a cup of tea is not strictly speaking necessary on the half hour flight from BHD to GLA.
But I was looking forward to it so was a little disappointed when it wasn't available.
By the way when I left the aircraft I thanked the cabin crew as I always do because I know if the chips were ever down so to speak they would do their utmost to get me out of a burning/sinking/disintegrating aircraft and as a frequent flyer for that I am eternally grateful.