Merged: The Great Budget Debate.......

[tail wheel]

Before we end up with a plethora of threads, post budget comments here.......

Age pension increase to 67 years of age..........
Hobby farm losses to be curtailed........
Foreign income to be taxed for Australian Citizens and Residents........
Medicare co-contributions/subsidies to be cut.........
Unemployment to rise to 8.5%.......
Everyone on "high incomes" (over $75,000 pa) to be means tested for all benefits........

[Yon Garde]

Don't blame me, I voted Liberal.

[Torres]

Yon. An interesting comment.

Not many admit to voting for the current Government, but they obviously achieved a majority at the last Polls........

[ditch handle]

I voted for the Labor Party at the last Federal election.

[strim]

I'm more interested in the budget reply.

Pretty quiet from that side of the fence lately.

[BeerBaron]

Foreign income to be taxed for Australian Citizens and Residents........

That will affect many Oz pilots working overseas. I can't find it mentioned anywhere online, on any of the media sites. Can you be more specific?

[CitationJet]

International tax — review of the foreign source income anti-tax-deferral
(attribution) regimes
Revenue ($m)
2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13
Australian Taxation Office - - * * *
The Government will reform Australia’s anti-tax-deferral (attribution) regimes which
ensure that residents can not accumulate income offshore and thereby defer, or even
avoid, Australian tax, with effect for income years on or after Royal Assent to the
legislation. This measure will have an ongoing unquantifiable revenue impact.
These changes implement most of the recommendations of the Board of Taxation
review of the attribution regimes.
To implement the Board’s recommendations, the Government will:
• modernise the controlled foreign company (CFC) provisions and rewrite them into
the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997;
• repeal and replace the foreign investment fund (FIF) provisions with a specific
narrowly defined anti-avoidance rule;
• repeal the deemed present entitlement rules; and
• amend the transferor trust rules to enhance their effectiveness and improve their
integrity.
The operation of these regimes has, over time, become inefficient, and in light of
growing global interactions, poorly targeted. The compliance costs imposed are
disproportionate to the integrity risk to the revenue. The reforms will reduce
compliance costs for affected businesses and help ensure that Australia’s managed
funds remain competitive in global financial markets.
The Government will consult on the implementation of these reforms.

[CitationJet]

Improving fairness and integrity in the tax system — better targeting the income
tax exemption for employment income earned by Australians working overseas
Revenue ($m)
2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13
Australian Taxation Office - - 215.0 225.0 235.0
The Government will better target the income tax exemption for foreign employment
income, with effect from 1 July 2009. The exemption will apply to income earned as an
aid worker, a charitable worker, under certain types of government employment or on
projects that are in the national interest. This measure will have an estimated gain to
revenue of $675.0 million over the forward estimate period.
The measure forms part of a package of measures to improve fairness and integrity in
the tax system.
Currently, certain foreign employment income earned by Australians working
overseas for a continuous period of 91 days or more is exempt from income tax. The
original intent of this measure was to relieve double taxation, however, in practice
little foreign tax may actually be paid on the foreign income concerned.
Instead, foreign employment income will generally become taxable and taxpayers will
be entitled to a foreign income tax offset for foreign tax paid on the foreign
employment income. This will relieve double taxation for those individuals.

[capt.cynical]

And for SFR (self funded retires) SFAll:(

[tail wheel]

My points above:

* Age pension increase to 67 years of age..........
* Hobby farm losses to be curtailed........
* Foreign income to be taxed for Australian Citizens and Residents........
* Medicare co-contributions/subsidies to be cut.........
* Unemployment to rise to 8.5%.......
* Everyone on "high incomes" (over $75,000 pa) to be means tested for all benefits........

Are nothing more than the items highlighted by Sky News. I probably missed quite a few....... I don't type all that fast! :sad:

[Air Ace]

Owen.

If you are a professional pilot, or worse, an airline pilot, the Government you voted in never was ever going to do anything to improve either your employment conditions or your income.

The $900 the ATO paid into your bank account recently was only ever a short term loan. The time has come to repay with interest.

Welcome to the real world!

[ditch handle]

Let me de-spin that for you.

If you earn a wage far in excess of what the average worker earns you are unlikely to need the government to work towards improving your wages and conditions.

It is generally acknowledged by economists that governments ought to go into deficit during down turns in economic activity in an effort to minimize the impact and repay that debt when the economic situation improves.

Welcome to the real world !

[teresa green]

Capt Cynical absolutely correct, 49 years of hanging off a prong, tax payer all my life, provided 4 hard working kids for the country (all in the airlines) and SFA for the effort, my super in a spiral dive, my shares up to sh$t, but at least I have my health, (if I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself) but glad the poor old pensioners got something (watch Woolworths and Coles put the prices up now) and for all you poor buggers out there who made flying a career, they are going to make you suffer, for no other reason than you got off your ar$e and made a life for yourselves and family and now you will pay thru the nose for it, eg: you blokes are paying more tax and getting less benefits, and the local drug addict is paying no tax and getting all the benefits.... what the????? Im going fishing.:{

[gassed budgie]

Swany's about to hit the nail on the head.


http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/995/cartoont.jpg

1972 - 1975 = 2007 - 2010. We'll see.

[Angle of Attack]

FFS Teresa take a chill pill, where is the evidence of paying more taxes? This is a Non-event budget quite frankly. Oh yeah some means testing, and possibly no private health insurance rebate, but if you qualify to lose the rebate your tax breaks will be higher?! As for paying more taxes and getting less, umm my tax rate has continously been trending downwards for at least the last decade? Can you elaborate?

I for one am happy that a lot of these middle class rebates will get means tested and wound down, they were a Howard baby and just politically brought on, FFS, the lower income earners need them more.

for all you poor buggers out there who made flying a career, they are going to make you suffer, for no other reason than you got off your ar$e and made a life for yourselves and family and now you will pay thru the nose for it

Cry me a river, go and tell that to entry level factory workers earning close to the minimum wage, thats where I worked to make my money to learn to fly for 5 years, and I can tell you that it is far more suffering than a few new charges on middle -high income earners mate!

To summarise I'd rather be a poor bugger who made flying a career and so called suffer than the far worse poor buggers in the factorys!
:ugh::ugh:

[Torres]

"As for paying more taxes and getting less, umm my tax rate has continously been trending downwards for at least the last decade?"

Then you have obviously not been watching the substitution of direct taxes, for indirect taxes, increased State taxes and the Superannuation grab. :mad:

[DutchRoll]

Well, for my two-bobs worth I'm an independent/swinging voter.

As a rule I don't like either major party, though I'll generally vote for whichever is "closest" to my preferences at the time. That happened to be Labor at the last election for several reasons.

I think the current Government has done some silly things, including the cash handouts, and the health insurance changes.

But in fairness, a $200 billion tax revenue loss is..........a $200 billion tax revenue loss. Whether you're Liberal, Labor, Animal, Vegetable, or Mineral. For Liberal voters to pretend that Howard/Costello would somehow magically not be running a very large deficit right now indicates a very loose grip on reality, yet a loose grip on reality is exactly what I'm seeing from many of the die-hards on that side of politics.

I'll be eagerly watching what happens over this budget and the next one......

[Stationair8]

I don't which is bigger Rudd's deficit or his ego!

As long as know politican lives in poverty I am happy.

[Andy05]

I think the factory example is rather a poor one to use seeing that I'm currently working in a factory packing products getting paid $45 per hour which I feel is a nice rate. As I've just complete my CPL and multi engine instrument rating and I'm doing the instructor course I'm being told that I am lucky to see $30 a flying hour so I realise that as we move up the ladder things surely improve but from where I'm standing it's looking harder and harder to reach where some of you guys are currently.
I proudly voted Liberal as I stand for a more capitalist idiology and feel that the current government stands for a socialist view in which the people who work real hard to make things better for themselves and there families are punished.
After all those $900 that where handed out will be quickly forgotten by most as we get reminded of the debt this country is in and the part that we must play in getting it out of debt.

Andy.

[Mr. Hat]

Didn't catch the details on tv. What was the goss on super? 50k to 25k?

Thats will piss me right off.

Another thing - road rail port. How about airports people!!!

[capt_akun]

Another thing - road rail port.

I think they should focus on the metro railway within the Cities first.

[FullySickBro]

Andy, the capitalist mantra still prevails so don't worry. That's why you'll earn 20 k as an instructor and the CEO 2 companies up the chain will earn 12 million...

[Mr. Hat]

akun - yeah i'll believe that when i see it! They are obsessed with bus ways everywhere.

[BeerBaron]

Income tricks of the rich targeted | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25471124-5017016,00.html)

"Currently, certain foreign employment income earned by Australians working overseas for 91 days or more is exempt from income tax to remove the risk of taxing the same income twice.

However, the Government noted that Australians earning income overseas generally paid little tax to foreign governments. So from July 1, those earning income offshore will be entitled to a tax offset for any income tax paid overseas, but will still be liable for Australian income tax."

[Skystar320]

Well:

During the Howard Government we were posting surplus of $10billion dollars. It took a year for the new government to post a massive $57billion DEFICIT

Morons who voted Krudd in.....

[parabellum]

Before aviation gets any breaks from Rudd & Co you are going to have to sort out the catering!

If the Howard government had been voted in, with their IR laws, there is a very good chance that a lot of small businesses would still be in existence and unemployment would be lower. History repeats itself, the socialists throw it all away then the tories come in and rebuild the country only to get thrown out of office for their efforts because they paid as much attention to wealth creation as the did to welfare!

[smudgiebottom]

I'm a fairly regular Lib voter, living in the only Lib state in Australia. I'm not worried about a budget deficit, I know that the GFC requires spending, so it was to be expected. Not sure I agree with the size of it or where it is being spent though.

For example, 10% of the population live in Western Australia (a Lib state).
40% of the nations exports come from WA.
Yet the Labor government only allocate 7% of the Budget's 'Building Australia' projects, even after Kev07's personalized pre-election TV ads promised big infrastructure projects to the West, which got him a few marginalized seats at the last election.

I'm thinking that the West has been ripped off and forgotten by a Federal government focussing on the masses in the east and vote-buying with $900 handouts.
With boom mines being shut down and staff made redundant, it would be the perfect time to invest in a massive solar energy plant, or water piping scheme from the north, but no, Kev says "let's build a bunch of highways and railways in the east because the WA Lib state government still can manage a surplus, so let them pay for it as we're don't need their votes again." :yuk:

I only hope that the state budget can make up the shortfall, but in my view they shouldn't have to.

If only the Daylight Saving referendum this weekend could include a political vote too, I'd be interested on the swing for/against over here.

[DutchRoll]

Skystar320, the "loose grip on reality" I mentioned in my previous post is perfectly illustrated by your comments:

During the Howard Government we were posting surplus of $10billion dollars. It took a year for the new government to post a massive $57billion DEFICIT

OK, some very, very basic history here: Labor's first budget, still riding on the good times, was also a massive surplus. The global financial crisis caused a rapid collapse in tax revenue. Company earnings (and therefore the tax take) plummeted, among other revenue sources. According to the Treasury, revenue will be down by $50 billion next year, having already plummented $23 billion this year.

Now, elementary maths: If I have a $10 billion surplus, and lose $23 billion in revenue one year, followed by $50 billion in revenue the following year, what is the net result I'm looking at, before I've even started spending money? :confused:

It's OK, take your time. Don't rush the answer. You may use a calculator if you wish.

I'm not debating whether or not their spending is warranted, but I'm a little surprised at the lack of sophistication of your statement (another way of saying it's extremely simple-minded).

I like to think pilots are smart, intelligent, rational people who can stand back and assess the reality of a situation. It frustrates me no end to be reminded that I'm hopelessly wrong in this respect.:hmm:

[Naverick]

' The problem with socialism, is that eventually you run out of other people's money '

Quote: Mrs Margaret Thatcher

[The The]

From ABC radio. If you think of the deficit in trillions it is not so bad.

$58 billion is only $0.058 trillion.

There! Makes you feel better doesn't it.

[breakfastburrito]

Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem Ronald Reagan

[tinpis]

Standard and Poors think KRudds got it right enough.
But he conveniently ignores Moody's

Here comes hard Labor (http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/here-comes-hard-labor/20090513-b2bm.html)

[7378FE]

' The problem with socialism, is that eventually you run out of other people's money '

Quote: Mrs Margaret Thatcher


The problem with capitalism, is that you run out of other people's money to lend to people who can't pay it back.

Quote: 7378FE

[Charliethewonderdog]

Hmmm.... Yep it's ALL Labours Fault......:ugh:

The Libs left a 20 billion Dollar surplus after a decade of growth and the biggest mining boom ever. WOW.... all we got was Hand outs, first home buyers grants, baby bonuses and rebates. Very little infrastructure in this time!!! But hay I don't care... I got my %30 health care rebate:ok::ok:... Happy times:D:D

Howard increased Middle class welfare to never before seen levels... using the extra revenue from the mining boom.... and guess what that boom is over and now we cant afford Howard's and Costello's middle class welfare hand outs...

Maybe we could have increased spending in things like roads, ports, schools, Hospitals or aged pensions when the going was good!!!! just a thought.:ugh::ugh:

Open your eyes..... the last government pi$$ed more money against the wall then any other government in this countries history.....

[Angle of Attack]

Wot Charlie said!:ok:

[Charliethewonderdog]

' The problem with socialism, is that eventually you run out of other people's money '

Quote: Mrs Margaret Thatcher

The Problem with Capitalism is it has very little social conscience and is controlled by greed. How much has the GFC cost??? 1 trillion??? 2 Trillion? who knows... but it would be safe to say that Capitalism has cost a bit lately???

Quote: It's a stick

Yer lets go down the road of the US system.... Great Health care there.


Why is it Labours fault the World is in a Recession??? whether you are liberal or labour or greens or who ever.... surely you aren't stupid enough to think that our economy going into a deficit is the result of the current Government....

If you think that then you are a TWIT.

[Charliethewonderdog]

2007: The costs of the Pacific Solution emerge
A report, A Price Too High: Australia's Approach to Asylum Seekers, found that:
• The Pacific Solution cost the Australian taxpayer in excess of $1 billion over five years.
• It cost more than $500,000 per person to process them on Manus Island, Christmas Island or Nauru.
• It costs seven times more to process asylum seekers on Pacific islands than if it was done on the Australian mainland.
• The Pacific Solution failed to reduce the number of people arriving.


That was money well spent...... $1 billion dollars..... $500,000 per person...

[tinpis]

It costs seven times more to process asylum seekers on Pacific islands than if it was done on the Australian mainland.

Sticky fingers? :rolleyes:

[Gnadenburg]

For those who escaped the unwashed masses and low cost carriers-

Australian Treasurer Wayne Swan announced in his Budget on the 12th May 2009 that a number of anti tax avoidance measures would be introduced including changes to the Foreign Income rules.

The proposed changes scrap the current tax exemption on Foreign income by Australian residents doing offshore work stints of 90 dyas or more, where they are exempt from tax on this income provided they pay tax in the country of earning.

The new changes will make these earnings taxable in Australia with a full tax credit for any tax paid in the offshore country.

This has caused a stir in the Expatriate community as many Australians living and working aborad feared that this may mean their offshore earnings may now be taxable.

This is not the case, as the changes only apply to people living in Australia and venturing overseas on short term work assignments.

Australians genuinely living overseas on a long term basis are classed usually as Non Residents for tax purposes and therefor the changes to the exempt income rules will not affect them as they did not apply in the first case.

For many Australians currently commuting for work offshore, there may be motivation for them the move permanently overseas in order to not have there incomes taxed in Australia under the new rules.

From smats.net

[Mr. Hat]

Personally I vote labour but i must admit for the first time I'm looking over the fence at the libs. Why? Well I'm tired of paying for long term unemployed and for people that expect the system to pay for them.

I thought a "tough" budget would have included an expiry date on the handouts to these people. But what it actually contained was an expiry date on the 50k at 15% tax into super. Now I'm not going to be relying on the system to fund my retirement so I think its fair for me to receive a bit of help if I'm willing to put my cash away for 30 years.

Now a spray for J. Winston Howard. Infrastructure spending? Yep well over due because nothing got done for 13 years. When you go overseas and have a look around you can see public transport/roads/rail/airports that we can only dream of. Lets face it our airports are a disgrace and so is the transport system in general.

[Charliethewonderdog]

Wot Charlie said!

Seems to have shut the stupid Liberal voting $%^&wits up for a bit...

[blade.runner]

Deficit as a % of GDP
1.Australia 13%
2.Canada 24%
3.USA 70%
4.UK 42%
5.Japan 49%
Gee how could K.Rudd get it so wrong.
Isn't bigger better?
Source: ABC Lateline

[Obie]

...well Charlie, you were obviously as drunk as a skunk last night, so we all let you sleep it off! :ok:

Feeling better now, are we? :ok:

PS: Red wine is a killer at night when you're posting on Prune!

I speak from experience! :ok:

[amos2]

" Wot Obie said! "

Seems to have shut Charlie the drunken dog up!

Life's a bitch Charles, Isn't it? :ok:

Oops! Sorry, shouldn't have said that.

I mean, you don't play rugby, do you?

[psycho joe]

2007: The costs of the Pacific Solution emerge
A report, A Price Too High: Australia's Approach to Asylum Seekers, found that:
• The Pacific Solution cost the Australian taxpayer in excess of $1 billion over five years.
• It cost more than $500,000 per person to process them on Manus Island, Christmas Island or Nauru.
• It costs seven times more to process asylum seekers on Pacific islands than if it was done on the Australian mainland.
• The Pacific Solution failed to reduce the number of people arriving.

That was money well spent...... $1 billion dollars..... $500,000 per person...


...And bullets cost .50c each.

joe.

[mostlytossas]

Not that I expected much anyway,but....after watching the budget reply tonight I can honestly say I have never seen a half hour show like it that said absolutely nothing. The only $ item mentioned was to put smokes up by 3c each to keep the medical fund rebate.
What a waste of space the opposition is.

[teresa green]

Jeez Joe thats a bit off. I mean these people are just looking for a new home, yeah ok, they didn't arrive in Indonesia by donkey, just on a 747, but hey why pay 10,000 grand to go on a leaky boat, when you can lower your standards a bit and go on a QF flight for just 700 bucks. With a gerry passport you will get through, (wear stubbies, thongs, and t shirt saying " go doggies," a walk in the park mate. :)

[Charliethewonderdog]

...well Charlie, you were obviously as drunk as a skunk last night, so we all let you sleep it off!

Feeling better now, are we?

PS: Red wine is a killer at night when you're posting on Prune!

I speak from experience!

ha... your debating skills are exceptional :D.

[Charliethewonderdog]

...And bullets cost .50c each.

joe.

55 cent when you pay GST.

[teresa green]

Mostlytossers, lets hope they are not a waste of space, because we are in deep sh$t if this other mob goes two turns, they will probably call a early election, as you can only fool some of the people some of the time etc etc, they will win of course, but with a reduced majority as the thinkers not the takers start to become uneasy, and then will be tossed out in the following election after even the takers have had enough, and we are up to our necks in debt, as are the kids and grandkids to follow, this mob make Gough look like a miser, and I never thought I would say that in my lifetime.:{

[Angle of Attack]

Yeah up to our necks in debt, hmm, sorry but if debt to ratio of GDP is 13% then its the same as an individual on say 50k annual salary, harbouring a loan of $6500. I mean please, this debt scare mongering is beyond a joke. The vast majority of Australians are running at massive deficits if thats the case! So many crapping on about debt when they themselves are heavily indebted, quite funny really!:ugh:

[strim]

The budget reply was like a bad oral presentation at high school.

[Charliethewonderdog]

Mostlytossers, lets hope they are not a waste of space, because we are in deep sh$t if this other mob goes two turns, they will probably call a early election, as you can only fool some of the people some of the time etc etc, they will win of course, but with a reduced majority as the thinkers not the takers start to become uneasy, and then will be tossed out in the following election after even the takers have had enough, and we are up to our necks in debt, as are the kids and grandkids to follow, this mob make Gough look like a miser, and I never thought I would say that in my lifetime.

Yes taking advice from the Baby boomers is always is always enlightening... the generation that JUST KEEPS on taking.....

[assasin8]

Had a maths teacher at school who always came up with this quote... "You can make some of the people happy all of the time, all of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy, all of the time!"

...And so it is with politics... Live with it folks... I'm sure most of you are out of nappies, so you've got no excuse!

...by the way, relevance to aviation is that the maths teacher flew fighters in WWII.:cool:

[capt_akun]

I cannot see the liberals do any better job then the labour is at the moment. However, I cannot say labour is doing a good job either, probably just as bad. Australia is heading down into the slippery slide of recession and this budget clearly shows labour has no f clue what they are doing.

It is only a matter of time until the blackhole sucks everyone in.

[Metro man]

Australia has lived well beyond its means for years. Massive inefficient government and welfare so generous its not worth working. Got away with it during the boom years, now the chickens have come home to roost.

All the previous largess has to be paid for, hundreds of thousands of people in useless paper pushing non-jobs in the public service "entitled" to a gold plated retirement along with the politicians. Whole generations of families on welfare who wouldn't even think about getting a job and expect to be kept at a higher standard of living than those in work.

A shrinking number of productive people expected to keep the gravy train rolling with ridiculous tax levels.

Where I now live, the government used a small percentage of its vast reserves to tide it over. Reserves built up over the years through prudent financial management, efficient government, and not doleing out money from those who want to work to those who don't.

Unfortunately the obvious solution of fixing the system can't be done because there are too many vested interests in keeping things as they are.

No wonder so many of us are going abroad, that is skilled high income earners. The refugees and assylum seekers replacing us aren't benefiting the country to the extent we did.

[Torres]

Deficit as a % of GDP
1.Australia 13%
2.Canada 24%
3.USA 70%
4.UK 42%
5.Japan 49%
Gee how could K.Rudd get it so wrong.
Isn't bigger better?
Source: ABC Lateline

An irrelevent comparison. The question is does Australia really need a deficit of $57 billion, 13% of GDP - especially as that deficit includes items such as the initial costs of the $42 billion Australia wide optical fibre broadband upgrade, which has not been costed and for which there is no business plan?

I get very concerned when politicians go on a spending spree with my money, often to fulfill their political or philosophical adgenda. Do we really need the biggest Defense spending since World War II when Australia is withdrawing from current conflict zones?

Has the government got it right regarding a recession? I'm not so sure; in my rather large part of rural Australia, economic development is running at 9.8% per annum - rivalling China's rate of economic growth - and regional unemployment is 1.7% and dropping.


From the ABS web site, for April 2009:
EMPLOYMENT: increased by 27,300 to 10,798,900. Full-time employment increased by 49,100 to 7,672,700 and part-time employment decreased by 21,800 to 3,126,200.

UNEMPLOYMENT: decreased by 35,300 to 614,600. The number of persons looking for full-time work decreased by 17,800 to 443,500 and the number of persons looking for part-time work decreased by 17,400 to 171,100.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE: decreased by 0.3 percentage points to 5.4%. The male unemployment rate decreased by 0.2 percentage points to 5.5%, and the female unemployment rate decreased by 0.4 percentage points to 5.3%.

Australia's unemployment rate is currently 5.5% and for the present, relatively stable. Has the Government got it right with their projected up to 10% unemployment, or is that "conditioning" to ensure they look champion when unemployment peaks at perhaps 7% or less?

I am seriously concerned whether my money is being spent wisely and questioning whether this is perhaps, the Budget Deficit we did not really need to have???

[Mr. Hat]

Metro man you read my mind:D

[RodH]

As tailwheel has demonstrated in the past by locking or moving non aviation related thread this one needs his attention.
Whilst it is a hot topic it has nothing to directly do with aviation and if the Mod shows any consistency he will lock or move it.
Or perhaps he won't as he started the thread and it might seem to have been a conflict of interest if he did but It WILL be a conflict of interest if he does not..
A bit of consistency is sorely needed in my opinion.
:=:=:=:=:=

[argusmoon]

Why is a budget deficit bad ?
Households,businesses,private individuals borrow money.
So whats the big deal.?
The imbalance between what is imported and what is exported should be more of a concern.
Collectively how much do corporations have outstanding in foreign borrowings.?
Australian Banks have always source capital from foreign sources.
Governments are well able to service debt.Particularly once the economy improves and revenues return to normal.

[ozangel]

I think given turnbulls weak as **** reply, perhaps the budget isn't all that bad?

[Pegasus747]

i guess it just begs the question what services should have been cut to balance the books over the economic cycle??

I dont know much about economics so i wont proffer alternate solutions but i guess there are things that would have to be foregone in order to reduce the size of the deficit.

I havent heard anyone in the opposition making a suggestion as to what can be cut out. In fact when pressed on the tax cuts the opposition leader said that were essential to help stimulate the economy.

Given that the Opposition also supported the pension increases, and only suggest one change Ie the midical benefits rebate being substituted and a tax on tobacco i dont see any alternative being offered

As a percentage of GDP our defecit will be about the lowest in the OECD from all accounts so others will be far worse than us.

I have personally seen no sign of recession in this country. Shops full, carparks in Westfields full, petrol stations selling gas and harvey norman selling plasmas

My super has gone up about 7% since march..... all looking good to me

[Bad Hat Harry]

Have a brother living in London.Things are so bad up there he is on his way home.
Whether by good luck ,good management or both we in this country seem to have been spared the ravages of the WFC.
What Rudd said before the election does not relate to the circumstances that exist now.
Adapt modify change according to the circumstances is a reflection of a responsible government.I owe no allegiance to either party but Rudd and Swan appear to have a good handle on whats going and have responded appropriately.
The question was asked "whats wrong with a deficit?"no one responded.
Personally I agree.I dont see a problem with a deficit.As a proportion of GDP ours will be the smallest in the OECD

[OZBUSDRIVER]

I know I should be in bed but the WWD is keeping me awake.

Turnbull could have just as easily bobbed up in the ALP but the LIBS just fit that little bit better. Hawke made an artform of stealing the middle ground. Who would have thought he would turn on a union?

Rudd and Swan???.....no one has mentioned how this idiot runs foreign policy....a full and frank briefing on a defence white paper to a foreign power BEFORE even letting the opposition in on the act?

That 58billion deficit would only be a 12billion deficit if he didn't try to massage the trade figures in each quarter and buy a state election with the cash handouts.

The unions are getting argy. KRUDD hasn't abolished all of workchoices yet...46million reasons why they are pissed?

I fell asleep during both speeches....about the same impact on me.

My fear is for my kids.

[bulstrode]

One thing about economics and economists is that nothing is provable except in hindsight and even then its open to debate.Six Economists will give you six different opinions about projected economic growth,employment,monetary and fiscal policy and everything else that comes into the mix.
Its always a matter of wait and see,doing the best you can with the available information and hope you get the result you require.
Anyone who starts providing definitive answers about the future of an economy is full of it.Its all conjecture based on guesstimates.
Academics a lot smarter than Mr. Frozo have still managed to get it wrong.I dont have problem with deficits just so long as the money is spent on Education Health and Infrastructure.If its directed to middle class welfare then I have a problem with governments intent and credibility.
Howards run should have been a lot shorter.Two events extended it:Latham and Tampa.At both instances the electorate was ready for a change.Fear and the lack of a viable alternative kept Howard in office

[teresa green]

Charlie The Wonder D, you honor me calling me a baby boomer, if only. It is becoming obvious this current Govt would be flat out organising a r$ot in a brothel, won't worry me, to old to care, but for you young blokes, you and your families will be paying for it for many years to come, I admire your sticking to Labor, and hoping it will all come good, but it is starting to unravel, and is hard to stop once it gets going, seen it all before and the end never changes, Labor goes on a mad spending spree, Libs come in put money back in the bank for a few years, then it goes back to Labor for more of the same, yawn, somehow the country seems to survive it, probably due to the hard working people, who no matter what, turn up for work each day, despite those morons in Govt, who have no concept what so ever of real life. I hope your Labor party delivers, but wouldn't punt the house on it.

[Flying Binghi]

Looks like time for a laugh..:)

Gored Earth (http://www.goredearth.com/archives.html)

[Maisk Rotum]

Beware all those 23AG users!! It is all about to come crumbling down. Prepare for an exodus of pilots returning from abroad as it no longer makes fiscal sense to work overseas. Thanks Kevin... NOT.... as Borat would say.

From the Budget measures 2009-10;

Improving fairness and integrity in the tax system — better targeting the income tax exemption for employment income earned by Australians working overseas
Revenue ($m)
2008 09 2009 10 2010 11 2011 12 2012 13
Australian Taxation Office 215.0 225.0 235.0
The Government will better target the income tax exemption for foreign employment income, with effect from 1 July 2009. The exemption will apply to income earned as an aid worker, a charitable worker, under certain types of government employment or on projects that are in the national interest. This measure will have an estimated gain to revenue of $675.0 million over the forward estimate period.
The measure forms part of a package of measures to improve fairness and integrity in the tax system.
Currently, certain foreign employment income earned by Australians working overseas for a continuous period of 91 days or more is exempt from income tax. The original intent of this measure was to relieve double taxation, however, in practice little foreign tax may actually be paid on the foreign income concerned.
Instead, foreign employment income will generally become taxable and taxpayers will be entitled to a foreign income tax offset for foreign tax paid on the foreign employment income. This will relieve double taxation for those individuals.

[ferris]

You are only about a week and 15 threads too late. Well done.

[Stubby]

Typical Labour! Higher Deficits, higher unemployment they just cant help themselves how people in this country keep voting them in really does my head in!!:ugh::ugh:

[404 Titan]

Maisk Rotum

This has been done to death here and on the Fragrant Harbour forum. This new rule only applies to people who are “Residents of Australia for Tax Purposes”. If you are a “Non Resident of Australia for Tax Purposes”, like most Aussie’s living in Hong Kong or Dubai, it doesn’t apply to you. And before someone says what makes you an expert in this field? I use to be an accountant.

[Metro man]

Prepare for an exodus of pilots returning from abroad as it no longer makes fiscal sense to work overseas.

Prehaps it will be the other way around ? Pilots getting out and making sure they tick all the boxes for non residence as it will be too expensive to retain ties.

I left a few years ago and wouldn't go back unless I had absolutely no other options. The advantages abroad have to be experienced to be believed.

Why stay and be milked dry by Krudd? He's already made it plain he's got high income earners in his sights.

I know someone who is $80 000 per year better off than he was in Australia, flying the same catagory of aircraft. Multiply that by ten years and add interest.:)

[Windshear]

... but we have a vote to make change every 3 years, I bet he doesn't !

Windy

[From a distance]

Leaving Australia does not mean that you can no longer vote. You are still an Australian citizen and that means you can exercise your democratic right and submit a postal vote.

[RodH]

Great to see this NON aviation related thread is still open.Maybe tailwheel has changed his mind and will now allow NON aviation related threads such as this in the future.
Nice to see such consistancy.
Rod H
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Plastic fantastic]

As far as Australians working overseas, the ATO will tighten up the net to catch more people.
Many have been operating on the hope that they won't get caught.
Facts are ( from my legal and tax advisors...if you can believe them), If you are a genuine non resident , you do not return to Australia more than the maximum allowable days and you do actually pay tax somewhere, you have nothing to worry about.
If you spend your days off and on standby in Aust, pay '0' tax in say the M/East or spend your overseas time in shared accom or hotels........trouble, trouble,trouble. You can't have your cake and eat it to!
Personally, I happily live overseas, keep houses in Aust and abroad, and only return to Aust for visits.Expensive, maybe but, far less than paying the ATO and more satisfying.
I don't agree with the accomodation bit as you should not be discriminated against according to how you choose to live. Personally, I have chosen to live in hotels for extended periods ( up to 2 years) and find the lifestyle quite appealling.Minimalistic but, appealling.
Kojak spent 20 years in a hotel.

Check with your own accountants but, make sure they are up with it.

[teresa green]

RodH, go and have a glass of milo there's a good chap. Most of us have the capacity to get our heads out of a flight deck or aviation for a few minutes, and we are certainly interested in what is happening politically as it affects our future, our jobs, (not for me) hence the future of Aviation in this country, which is of enormous importance to any aviator re his/her employment of the coming years, be they pilots, cabin crew or engineers, which probably explains why the moderator lets the forum run.

[RodH]

teresa.
I too am very interested in what these so called " financial experts " in Canberra are doing to our country.
What I am on about is the apparent lack of consistancy in the moderators actions.
I had a thread about the P.M's abuse of a F/A locked by the mods who quoted as below.
I would have thought that as it happened to aircrew on an aeroplane it was aviation related.
Having a P.M. who abuses his staff is very concerning .
As a leader of the country who can make changes that greatly affect aviation in Australia it surely is worth talking about, but not according to the Mods.
This thread is really non aviation related but if you follow a full set of steps I suppose you can eventually get it to be ever so slightly related to aviation as you eventually could with almost any topic.
Thats my gripe in this thread.
I suppose when I get to your age " milo" is the go but until then I will stick to red wine.
Rod H
:(:(:(






The moderator posted this :

" When will you get the simple message that the issue of the PM's hissy fit has nothing to do with "Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed" and there is not going to be a non aviation political debate in this or any other PPRuNe Forum? := := "

quoted :

[priapism]

On a personal level - Rudd's fiddling with superannuation will impact me a million times more than Howard's workchoice legislation ever would have.

Turnbull is unelectable - Costello is the lib's only hope of getting near an election win.

I am disgusted with Rudd's handling of superannuation. It is flawed policy just like workchoices was.

[teresa green]

RodH, I am with you on the KRUDD bad behaviour on the RAAF flight, none of us like to see cabin crew abused by a PAX, be they civil or service staff, regardless if the PAX does happen to be the Prime Minister, and it should have been allowed to run, I think most of us would agree it WAS a aviation matter but most of us are not the mods, who like airline managers move in strange and mysterious ways, but as stated before they obviously think it is important to the future of aviation what the pollies are doing today. Glad you are not drinking milo unless mixed with rum ,that stuff could kill you.