Merged: All you want to know about A380 for CC!

[heads_down]

got this email out of nowhere, add this to the FAAA long list of achievement. Majority agrees with FAAA my foot.

THIS IS A TRANSFER OF DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON OVER IN THE BFA GROUP.
ABUSIVE PERSONAL EMAILS BY THE USUAL SUSPECTS AND MALCONTENTS OF THIS SWAP GROUP WILL BE IGNORED/DELETED. DON'T EVEN WASTE YOUR ENERGY. IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS, POST THEM TO ALL F/A.

If you feel strongly enough about your work options, consider this and share it with your colleagues and the FAAA.

Why offer A380 flying to domestic crew?

Why not offer a nominal number of positions to QAL crew...interview them, train them and then include A380 flying in what we originally thought was included in our 'international LH' flying pool?

Why do we have a surplus of LH crew? ... the ravaging of our patterns by the A380.

The A380 is INTERNATIONAL. .. not DOMESTIC! We have been on the losing end since Qantas bought the domestic TAA/Australian Airlines (an ardent competitor to Qantas, they were the feeder airline to QF's competitors- Ansett was QF's domestic feeder airline)

We must contend with Domestic crew transferring over to LH and then jumping original LH crew in seniority... then why offer to them more of our work!!

Force them to take their LSL and excess leave and other 'leave burn' options.. and include the A380 flying in International flying under a better negotiated deal for LH crew!

There is a better option than what is proposed or enforced upon us by FAAA.

Hands off our work Domestics... we've had enough of you!

Well... obviously there is a lot of disappointment and frustration around our workplace...

YES of course i believe we all agree - that we are all grateful to have a job!.... although that is not to say.... accept unfairness and injustice!!! and on top of that continue to pay fees!

instead of voicing a few emails here that are probably not going to solve much... I wonder? is there a way that you guys "lesnegociants" could organise a petitions?

That at least could be a "formal" testimony from crew that are very disappointed and therefor willing to put their names down in order to put forward negotiations and hopefully constructively achieve something!

...I know I would sign it! ...and i think a lot of other crew would too!

anyway... just a thought!

It`s great to see some of you feel the same but I`m still confused.

What I don`t get is how come Domestic can get access to the A380 when they are all still sitting on massive LSL balances. We all know they were afforded the protection of their Leave by ONE sentence in their award.

I might feel differently if they too had been directed to use their LSL. In Alison Webster`s latest letter she states that Domestic will have to use one roster`s Leave. That`s only one month for them. A drop in the bucket.

It feels as though we in International are making all the concessions.
I was in contact with FAAA Friday. They state that as Executives they get to make the decisions for us Members without consultation or communication with us. Think this is the biggest problem overall. Aren't we members "THE UNION". We all should be able to have voices that our elected officials listen to!!!! Be heard long haul flight attendants. EBA8 was suppose to protect not eradicate our work conditions. Communication is sadly lacking and I agree that it should not be a dictatorship.

Yes the company has fallen on a bad patch, but it has been there before and we long haul flight attendants are always called upon to make sacrifices. Each time we lose and the company keeps gaining. Don't know if you all remember but as part of EBA8, an extra flight attendant was to be put on board Premium economy aircraft. So how can the company and FAAA justify this flight attendant being taken off???

Use your voices and don't forget the General Meetings are coming up in a months time. Check FAAA for dates

wow.....it certainly would appear there is a groundswell of disappointment and bewilderment within the membership by the recent decisions taken by our elected offficials.
I`m kinda reminded of George Orwell`s `Animal Farm` where the pigs took over and started to make all the decisions on behalf of all the other animals.
Their credo `we are all equal... but some of us are more equal than the others` springs to mind when I think of the protection afforded to our very fortunate Domestic colleagues and the seemingly limitless concessions we here in International continue to make.
In their most recent newsletter I noted with interest the FAAA`s use of the word `tribalism` when talking about the Divisions. I guess it serves them to slap such a label on what really is just loyalty to our own, and an interest in self-preservation.
Perhaps we SHOULD get a petition together just as someone suggested. Afterall, as John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten from the Sex Pistols once said...without our opinions we are nothing more than slaves.
Safe flying.

The thing that really irks me the most is the line from the FAAA memo that reads:

"...and for those of us that may have been angered by past decisions and actions of our Short Haul colleagues for whatever reasons, this should square the books as far as I am concerned"

This should "square away" S/H agreeing that we get less pay than they do when we transfer across, and later signing up to do our regional flying for less money? This squares away nothing! If they were so wonderful they'd just take their leave and be quiet, not try to make themselves heroes in the process and then go on to work the A380.

[Pegasus747]

SHORT Haul are agreeing to give up all international flying on the 767, and international flying and domestic flying on the A330 and send it to Long Haul to soak up the surplus.

227 QCCA crew were about to be made CR before the 30th June..i think that the QCCA crew would appreciate the "gesture" of SH crew.

The few crew that come to long haul from SH are far less than the flying they are sending over and the jobs that are being saved.

ALl of the issues are coming from QAL crew who would not have been made redundant because they are too senior.

If the Last on first off wasnt in place i doubt you would be hearing this codswallop from the senior crew they would be screaming like babies and crying and begging for someone to save their jobs, their private school fees and their investment properties.

Quite frankly they can get stuffed i dont give a tinkers cuss what they say of think. The FAAA SH and LH have done the right thing

[lowerlobe]

If the Last on first off wasnt in place i doubt you would be hearing this codswallop from the senior crew they would be screaming like babies and crying and begging for someone to save their jobs, their private school fees and their investment properties.

Quite frankly they can get stuffed i dont give a tinkers cuss what they say of think.
Is this what the union thinks of senior crew and seniority?

[Pegasus747]

Thats what i think of senior crew who dont give a **** about anyone but themselves. personally with 25 years up i consider myself senior so i am obviously not talking about everyone but i am certainly talking about 10% of the LH population who dont give a stuff about anyone but themselves

[heads_down]

ok there has been some misunderstanding, pegasus, it's that 10% seniors that you referred to that irritates me. one tells me he never ever do jo bergs, how arrogant is that? still many only talk about shopping for their second new kitchen, their 2 more investment property, just so annoying. on the other end of the spectrum, qcca crew cannot even get a mortgage approved becos of such low verifiable income. (as we all know lending criteria have tighten)

now we do know there is another group of factions that do not like the proposal, if that number is large, then u have morale problems. I think the writer was concern about the sh seniors might just jump queue and able to bid better trips etc. I also detect they are not too happy that sh can just glide into a BFA position where in LH you have to go through an application process, which many have also being rejected and bitter, they're the bfirst rejects. I remembered meeting one who told me of how many years she had been doing first class and now she got rejected 3 times.

oh well times have changed.

[Wonderworld]

How was Australian Airline an "ardent" competitor to Qantas. They didn't fly the same routes. Ansett may have been the "preferred" domestic airlines to offer connecting flights to Qantas services but plenty of people flew on Australian to connect with Qantas :confused:

[cabinfever]

Pegasus says
"Quite frankly they can get stuffed i dont give a tinkers cuss what they say of think. The FAAA SH and LH have done the right thing"...Hmmm, interesting attitude!

I don't know who you are but you certainly seem to be "in the know" ALOT. Well I can tell you ALOT of crew are not happy. And whilst i don't agree with many of the sentiments in some of those responses, the union will def be hearing about it at the next meetings! And you know what? I can't wait!

[cabinfever]

Pegasus, such contempt....

"whingers, retarded water melons, complete irrelevant losers..." is that what you think of the membership?

Just because someone expresses an opposite opinion it doesn't make them any of those things. There are alternate points of view! Not everything we are "fed" has to be believed.

OPINIONS WILL BE EXPRESSED! PEOPLE WILL TALK AND THE UNION WILL BLOODY WELL HEAR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE WE ARE THE COLLECTIVE! IT'S NOT A DICTATORSHIP!

Get off your high horse!

[simsalabim]

I thing Pegasus must be taking tips from the fascist dictatorship on QCC/1.Maybe he will start kicking a few heads if future opinions are expressed in a frank and open manner. How can one maintain control of the worforce /membership if they have the temerity to go against the regime??What is the line about absolute power? Well some of the newsletters coming out of the FAAA are getting more and more bizarre. No one repeat no one wants to see redundancies. Apparently now if you dare to question the way it has been done you are automatically branded an enemy of the state and will be agressively persued. Sound familiar?

[Pegasus747]

very true. all opposition will be crushed lol

God you take yourself too seriously....i am sure there are people who actually have conversations every day with elected officials and the lawyers that the FAAA employ and they "don't" have to agree

show me one newsletter from the FAAA that says members arent entitled to a view. The FAAA is not required to agree with every member.

In fact if the FAAA responded to every pressure group pushing their own barrows it would be pandemonium

Lets look at some of the issues the FAAA has to play solomon over

1. Crew that have previous service with the COmpany that want that counted for seniority for bidding and redundancy

2. crew that resigned from TAA and joined Qantas want their previous service with TAA counted for bidding

3. crew who were forced to leave through discrimination and came back got their seniority back thanks to the previous elected officials of the FAAA and over 1000 crew signed petitions and took the matter to court to overturn it and lost....resentment still remains

4. Crew who were with AO in CNS who resigned to join QCCA now want continuity of service and part 1 conditions

5. Junior Crew who are doing back to back JNB want a cap on them and that would force them further up the tree or at the least cause capping on other trips as well.

6. crew who would prefer last on first off redundancy for junior crew rather than the Long Service leave burn or the tri partite agreement.

7. Crew who want promotions in Melbourne only for Melbourne based crew

8. Crew who want Seniority scrapped

9. crew who want category seniority for CSS/CSM

10. Crew who want parts of the EBA overturned and renegotiated, but without the company getting to change any of the things that they want

11. QCCA crew who want the end of seniority and junior QAL crew would would also like to see seniority scrapped.

12. Short Haul crew that want international flying and short haul crew that only want to be in INternational

13. Short Haul crew in CNS that want out of CNS

14. Perth domestic crew who want out of perth (including those that have just joined)

15. A government that when approached about overseas bases and offshoring "says get over it it's part of globalisation". And allows any foreign airline to operate in and out of australia without any conditions

16. Company's like Virgin that wont even negotiate with Unions





and the list goes on and on

If anyone has a solution to any of these issues that will make "everyone" happy i think they should email the FAAA...

and thats not to mention

the recidivist drunks that keep turning up for work pissed or drink on the aircraft and are a constant drain on FAAA resources

Crew that are constantly dobbing on other members causing a few new clause 11's everyweek

CSM's and CSS's incapable of managing a conversation with their managers without it turning into a clause 11

and thats not to even mention pathalogical liars as cabin crew managers and team managers who set people up that they dont like and the FAAA is attending meetings every day with members to ensure that they are being treated fairly

[Pegasus747]

and one final thing.. SH crew transferring to LH has been happening since the merger in fact there are far more LH crew that have transferred to SH than the other way.

[surfside6]

All QAL were offered opportunities to transfer to the A380.Not many chose to do so because of the restrictions to lifestyle.Why would any body begrudge the domestics taking positions that nobody else wants?.
As far as Peg is concerned he has always been a source of reliable and useful information.There are those that post here who have labelled him a union executive and no amount of evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise.The point is Peg chooses to keep himself informed while others who are too lazy to read communiques and/or ring the union office continually bag him.
No wonder the guy gets annoyed.The usual half dozen small barking dogs never ever offer anything constructive or creative.Praise be to Mickey Mouse that these small barking dogs are not indicative of the majority of the hard working intelligent ladies and gentlemen who fly.
The silent majority who have never even heard of PPRuNe let alone ppost here

[Pegasus747]

Thanks for the vote of support Surf...

its very hard to tell it like it is sometimes...i will be the first to admit that i have been an official in the past and i think i am well informed.

I have seen the best and the worst of officials over the years and i just happen to think that at the moment we have some thinking people running the union.

They dont have kneejerk reactions. They have shown great courage when required and run very significant media campaigns, and have very carefully cultivated a good working relationship with Management.

They are very visible, have issued more information in the form of newsletters and members meetings than any of their predecessors in my 25 years. I think that flight attendants are very well informed and have more information than they have ever had in the past.

I think what frustrates me is that crew will listen to rumour and speculation and take it as gospel without even bothering to talk to the company or the union.

if people would prefer me not to post on here then can hit the ignore button next to my name....I dont have any more information than is generally available by talking to officials, the company leaders and more importantly reading the FAAA newsletters

My suggestion to crew is read the newsletters....its all there and they dont tell lies.....if you can find a newsletter with a lie or misleading information then you have cause to complain...

[Machinegun Fellatio]

This guy joins in May and has already made 48 posts.Most of which is complete garbled nonsense.
He has become the hero of the Vacuous Vanities.C'mon folks lets be a little pragmatic.This tripartite deal is a win win.
If anyone has an intelligent well thought out alternative where everyone is happy lets hear it.
A cacophany of stupidity will no doubt ensue

[heads_down]

at the very least, one of my concerns was not made up, after all.

Crew that are constantly dobbing on other members causing a few new clause 11's everyweek
this is a very serious issue that needs to be addressed, this affects morale, confidence, instill fear into the workplace which amounts to harassment, and encourage made up stories for personal enjoyment.

In fact, even the FAAA had repeatedly warned that allegators have to be prepared to back up their tales etc...this is not reinforced, in fact, team managers are all too happy to be judge and jury and cover up identities of dobbers. How did this common practice by team managers even slip through the tight FAAA cracks, I do not know.

And Pegasus, I understand you gave this long list of wants from members and all the services that FAAA has to render constantly etc...

BUT

Did we, as members not paid money for the exact services that was promised for the payment of the fees? Last heard, because of members' money, the building is now paid for many times over since years ago, cash up in the piggy bank, spare cash to even hire a full time lawyer and industrial officer and other staff.

You don't just collect money for nothing. You collect people's money for a service and those long list of what-nots you put up are simply service that they are obliged to render for money accepted.

Well if they do not like all the variety of requests, than just stop taking the money too, simple as that.

and Machinegun Fellatio (http://www.pprune.org/members/107003-machinegun-fellatio), if you do not like a certain member, just build a bridge and cross it, nobody said you have to like everyone at Qantas. Not even the bible says that. On the same token, nobody at Qantas gives a rats rectum about your opinion and they've crossed the bridge so long ago.

[Pegasus747]

heads down

once again you are totally wrong...Clause 11 states that anonymous complaints will not be investigated.

Crew cannot shield themselves from scrutiny by withholding their names. The FAAA is entitled to cross examine any person who writes a complaint.

And this happens.... so please heads up or down or whereever your head is at the moment...please dont rely on hearsay,,just stick to the facts

[heads_down]

Pegasus, you are so wrong
I had an incident where I was yanked into the office and I asked who said that and my team manager said I am not at liberty to tell.

and that was a bloody trivial incident too.

I wished I had so much confidence in the way our team managers operate like you too.
The fact is, I truly believe they really do not know their work very well. They know nothing about compo, natural justice, precedences, labor laws, etc. let alone the actual flying work.

Also A reliable source told me they are paid about $85 000 including super a year

[Pegasus747]

well it wasnt a clause 11 then was it....and you didnt ask for FAAA support or that conversation wouldnt have taken place.....now tell the truth

the response to a team manager who wants to discuss something that you think is a "performance matter" is.... just hang on for a sec i need a union rep here....

They soon lose interest

[heads_down]

look, yanking you inside by a ground duty on your roster is traumatising enough, for all that nonsense,one would think that you can find out who on earth did that to you.

See this just goes on and on and on unless FAAA says enough is enough and I think the best way to stop these nonsense is to have both the dobber and the dobbee to be in the office at the same time. This will discourage personal agenda.

Look, you and I both know that there are probably 1001 things you can dob someone in for, if you really are keen. And you know the managers are certainly kleenex keen, So in view of that, how can one be sure that just cos someone had a personal grudge against you and do it on you?

This is why I think our team managers are incompetent and so are the FAAA for not putting a stop to these.

[Pegasus747]

oh god i dont know why i bother......

you just dont get it.... people are responsible for their own behaviour. The FAAA can give advice and crew are free to ignore it.

The best advice they have given crew is that if they want representation "call"

in your case heads down you may not even be a member. My experience is that most FAAA members call when they need assistance ...if you chose not to then you have to accept the consequences.

now as for the FAAA putting a stop to crew dobbing on crew.....you are really in pixie land.

[heads_down]

I had been a member of FAAA since day 1
anyways that's besides the point, I do not keep calling FAAA every time like some members who want their full $24 worth each week. I figured I only call if it was really serious.

Anyways, since you concede dobbing is a culture in cabin crew, is there any wonder one gets cynical when crew here say things like,"oh crew help crew" "oh, if we can stop a crew from CR be it QCCA, MAM, AKL or QAL or whatever, then we can hail Mary 5 times" "oh even though I am senior but I do not wish to see a MAM casual go, cos all crew are crew" "oh we crew should all unite as one"

What a load of crock **** from MacDonald's farm!

In my short time as a crew in Qantas all I can see is crew hates crew, crew ganging up on crews, crew lies, crew dobbing crew, crew stepping all over crew, crew brown nosing, crew cannot wait to get ahead, crew cannot wait to be the bright shining star etc.

[Pegasus747]

there are about 6000 crew .....not all are dobbers....not all are members....not all are drunks, thieves, whores , addicts or mentally ill

but we have all of the above.... we are likely any small town of 6000 not everyone is an asshole and the vast majority are thoroughly decent.

So trying to save others jobs is not unusual.... its actually normal....the ones that dont care are in that minority

[cart_elevator]

you know as one of the last 'bidders' in longhaul, this really sucks. More senior beehives coming over, just pushes us down even more. We were finally getting something but JNB and now we will be back to it. I realise the FAAA is in it for everyone, but would have liked the Longhaul FAAA to do something to look after the juniors before letting the beehives come in, just as the beehives stopped us from getting 'bands payments' by going to their division.But then again, I guess most of the FAAA are senior...:mad:

[heads_down]

personally Pegasus I think you underestimate how many ambitious crews there are. That's all I will say.



Ambitious does not mean with merit or even intelligent.

cart elevator, let's face it, the number of juniors in QAL pales to the number of seniors, this said, you know the answer. One time, I even heard a senior crew told me that because they had been paying fees for so long, their needs should be served first by FAAA, with attitude like that, it's no wonder the seniors simply alienate themselves.

[lnavvnav]

Heads Down
You need to let go of that incident or go back to your Team Manager and discuss how 'intimidated' you feel. I have worked closely with Team Managers over the past year and find them to actually be on 'our' side most of the time. In fact I think they are doing pretty damn well at the moment not telling all the whining SH crew who 'don't think they should have to take leave just to save some casual/juniors job' to get a life as they wait to see if they have indefinite holidays (ie- they still haven't heard if their jobs are safe). If you are having issues with one- go and speak to another as step one.

In response to all the crud about Short Haul taking all "OUR" flying.....no division owns any flying. The company has the right to choose routes and who flys them. Simple.

Many routes will be taken from short haul in this tripartite agreement.

SH are now being directed to take LSL and AL even though our EBA states we cannot be directed LSL.(Facilitive agreement outside EBA has overridden this clause).

The only reason SH are being offered the A380 is that the company cannot recruit QCCA's at present.

LH SIGNED THE EBA THAT ALLOWED QCCA TO FLY THE A380.

[argusmoon]

Somebody is not a happy camper.Somebody has stolen a couple of his sandwiches.So he is two sandwiches short of his picnic.Every post is negative and revolves around him .Talk about self absorbed.
Give us all a break.Try to find something positive to say that doesnt involve you

[labia vortex]

The beehives are going to the A380.There isnt any bidding for them there

[heads_down]

Confucius did say, people only remember bad experiences and forget happy experiences.

I think it ia a combination of few things:

1. I would never have done something like that, I never go behind crews and talk about them to management, when I knock off from work, I knock off, simple as that.
So imagine my shock.

2. I expected team managers to use common sense.


3. I set high standards for myself and even higher standards for managers. If you are in a position to manage me, I have every right to expect you to be better than me in every aspect, people skills, common sense, knowledge etc, has to be above and better than me. Otherwise, you should just step down and let someone else do the job.

4. Elephants never forget.

[heads_down]

Somebody is not a happy camper.Somebody has stolen a couple of his sandwiches.So he is two sandwiches short of his picnic.Every post is negative and revolves around him .Talk about self absorbed.
Give us all a break.Try to find something positive to say that doesnt involve youwell if everyone was so happy like you, there would not be so many divorces now would there?

If every one was so positive, than the war in middle east would have ended yonks ago now , wouldn't it?

If people weren't self absorb I wonder why every year there's a miss world competition.

and for the record, I was talking about team managers, dobbing crews, qantas as a caring employer, Union achievements (we have not had enough of that) so I think you have poor comprehension skills.

[stubby jumbo]

Hey Heads Down.

Are you shacking up with Twiggs -cause from what you write/post it looks like you are both toking on the same Billie!

Get over it mate!

Crew aren't all that bad.....even the Bee hives.

Sure there are a few low life's out there lurking in the shadows -....but you show me any workplace that does not have them.

Best advice that I ever got was from Matt Kennedy on a 7 day slip in Belgrade after he consumed a bottle of Russia's finest.

"KEEP YOUR F---K-N HEAD DOWN, STAY OUT OF THE OFFICE AND KEEP SMILING.......THIS IS THE BEST JOB IN THE WORLD !";)

[lnavvnav]

Heads Down
Look at the Grievance Procedures in your EBA. You can take steps if you feel hard done by. Posting it all here is not going to do anything to improve your situation.

Yes. The SH crew who are taking up a 'fixed term' contract will be operating on the A380 by December 09. With no seniority.

Again we need to look at the bigger picture. If it means WE all keep our jobs- then it has to be a positive in the long run.

[labia vortex]

There is no "I" in team.
As someone correctly pointed out you are fixated on yourself.
Get a life.
Get a dog.
Get something but just get off PPrune.
God Lord who did you annoy before you discovered this forum?

[Pegasus747]

and for the last of the junior bidders this deal actually helps you. if the QCCA crew are sent to A380 you will have nobody below you.

By sending SH crew to A380 and leaving the QCCA crew in LH it will actually help your bidding and at the same time please the QCCA CREW . WIN/WIN

[OCCR]

its amusing reading your replies pegasus..... what's even more amazing is reading the garbage that comes from Heads off!

keep up the information Pegasus.... I find it invaluable...."at times"

[vigi-one]

With the regionals still recruiting why is there no secondment to regionals allieviate the current oversupply at mainline? Alliance are contracting to QLink out of Bris with Alliance F/A's wearing QANTAS uniforms. Why is this not being done with 737's if mainline work is slowing down.

[jungle juice]

Are you shacking up with Twiggs -cause from what you write/post it looks like you are both toking on the same Billie!
Absolutely priceless stubby and the advice you got from Matt Kennedy is spot on but there are a lot of crew who look at QCC1 as a career enhancement center and spend more time there than at home or away.

From memory heads_down said he/she used to work in QCC1.If thats the case remember the old saying the walls have ears and the office likes to know what everyone is saying when they are away.If you understand where Pegasus works and finds it neccessary to post as does his support team here so too does the office and you don't have to look too far to see who they are.

[packrat]

You make a lot of assumptions there JJ.
Peg has never been pro management but more pragamatic.
It is well known a lot of CC from the lunatic fringe reside in Melbourne.

[jungle juice]

Peg has never been pro management
Well,we could argue that one for days but I thought it was clear from my post that I was not referring to peg as one of the plants from the office.

I did say that peg and the others in the union had a support team which posts here but I did not say they were clever.:ugh:

[mrpaxing]

just got back from a little trip and the troops dont seem to be too happy about this deal by the FAAA.
here is the consensus what the crew made of this deal

it appears the whole deal was set so the behives dont come to LH (otherwise they will be instantly sent to 20 years LSL/AL lol), that leaves some S/H to join l/h. the real deal is in that the young boys/girls (QCD) to cross on fixed term straight to the A380.
Senior Management WANT Young faces (regardless of expirience) for the A380 and the FAAA LH goes along with it. they do not give a toss about senior crews !!!
Why would they have not poshed for current LH crew to get all slots on the upcoming A380??????????????????.there is a surplus!!!! ?????
Management does not want that!!!
Once the flying picks up again in a couple of years QCCA will again be employed therfore pushing senior crew into regional or as managment would like it, take redundancy or just go.
such a transparent strategy but it seems the 3 amigos dont get it!!
Its all QF's way.
You could have sent QCCA to do domestic flying??:oh:
Who wants the domestic flying anyway????????????:yuk:

the other major ongoing issue is of course clause 11. there is a need to root out this systemic approach by the company. once again the FAAA LH fails its members(not my words but general feeling amongst the troops).
A ranting from a mixed senority crew:E

[lnavvnav]

I understand that current LH crew including QCCA are able to apply to the A380 first.
The remaining numbers will then be filled by fixed term from SH.

It is open to all crew. Yes the senior F/A's have been told they will have to take all LSL and AL if they take the 'fixed term' however they know they will be directed to take it at SH as well. Why not go to LH and get it paid at a higher rate?

QCD are all Perth based. I would think as Perth base is short staffed they will not be chosen to take the fixed term. The company has the right to choose from all applicants according to operational requirements.

As for all the thought that we are only saving QCCA or Casual's jobs. Global seniority includes these two groups. If is comes down to last on first off these groups will not be the first to go. Some MAM casuals are up to seven years service. (Lets spare a thought for that group at the moment. Seven years service with no staff travel, no seniority, limited choice in days off etc...... and now trying to live on 40hrs pay a month).

We all have a voice and I believe there are avenues to get our 'good ideas' across to either the company or the Union. So anyone with some solutions to keep us all working under our current conditions whilst making it viable for the company, put it out there. (The back galley is not going to get it heard from anyone who can make a change).

[OCCR]

yes but the MAM knew this when they applied.

They were fully aware of the conditions and accepted them!

they are not QANTAS employees.
Sounds harsh, but its the reality.

[lnavvnav]

As a side......
How many LH crew actually read your current EBA before voting on it?

By 'read' I mean picked it up and read it cover to cover. What is going to happen in the next few years comes from that EBA. The same in short haul. These facilitative agreements clauses are written in the document that got voted up by crew who would work under these conditions.

I am not 'company' and I am not 'union'. I am a crew member who read the SH EBA cover to cover prior to casting a vote.

How many of you can claim the same?

[OCCR]

They may not read it but many try and become informed.
There is a big difference when applying for a job.

It clearly states that you are employed BY MAM
all know there is no staff travel or sick leave and annual leave.
Come on they do tell you this ad nausea um

[lnavvnav]

And all the juniors knew seniority existed when they applied and took the position.

[ditzyboy]

the real deal is in that the young boys/girls (QCD) to cross on fixed term straight to the A380. (mr paxing)

QCD are all Perth based... The company has the right to choose from all applicants according to operational requirements. (lnavvnav)

Where does it say QD crew can apply for the fixed-term?! Only crew employed by QAL are eligible to apply. It is the the first sentence of the information sheet.

Or is there some deal for QD that has been kept secret?

Who wants the domestic flying anyway????????????

Your colleagues, mr paxing, who only want to work two days a week by doing Perth returns. I used to commute to Perth and if the pattern was a straight shuttle it seemed to be quite senior.

Gotta love the uneducated hysteria. Not.

By the way. Judging by the number of Beehives and senior ex-LH crew at the fax machine it may very well be some relatively senior people going across. Not one of the nine women at the fax machine at 0630 yesterday were under 25 years seniority. Had a laugh as I walked past.

lnavvnav makes a valid point. Many seniors are talking about the higher base salaries in relation to directed leave. And I have heard the term 'swan song' many times over the last week or so.

[lnavvnav]

Ditzyboy.

Correct. Only QAL can apply. My typo.
The only 'young boys/girls' who have been employed to QAL in the past couple of years have all had to go to Perth (except some original AO crew)- but most have already been flying with MAM or Regional airlines for a few years. The only way they will be given a slot is if any of the QCCA crew take up a QD spot in Perth.

[Pegasus747]

Mr Paxing,

if it was all about getting young faces on the A380 they would have just continued to compel the QCCA crew (generally younger) onto the A380

The Tri-Partite agreement still give total priority to the QAL LH crew, however the lack of a seniority bid system on A380 is the major inhibitor i understand that.

Therefore if seniority and the bid system is so important its better that the QCCA crew remain in 747 world to prop up the bid system for the junior QAL crew and send the SH crew to A380 land where their seniority will have no impact on the bidding of QAL crew in 747 land

There is no way on earth that the company is going to introduce seniority on the A380. Its going to be fair share and from what i understand the majority of A380 crew at this stage seem to like it. THat may change over time but until there is a groundswell of support for seniority from the A380 crew themselves its not going to happen

No deal in IR is perfect, its about the possible. Its only about what you can get qantas to agree to and they are not going to unpick the eba after 15 months when there are viable alternatives. Hey, if there wasnt Workchoices who knows what might have been possible in negotiations for A380 but you have to play the hand that you are dealt

[twiggs]

just got back from a little trip and the troops dont seem to be too happy about this deal by the FAAA.
here is the consensus what the crew made of this deal...

...once again the FAAA LH fails its members(not my words but general feeling amongst the troops).
A ranting from a mixed senority crew:E

Sound like you failed them mrpaxing, you could have set them all straight as they obviously have no idea of the reality of what is going to happen.

[OCCR]

pegasus
seniority may not be a big deal at the moment on the 380, however I give it until the next recruitment or better still until SH go across!
the comments will start! then it will be" I have been at this a lot longer "and I should have more say!
When the destinations and desirable trips start... you watch the shiiit fight.

[call button]

It will be interesting to see how many temporary and permanent transfers are actioned. Apparently a lot of senior SH crew are seeking a permanent transfer as they won't have to go to the A380. Rumours in the lounge today that there may be around 100 permanent transfers. Many more junior crew are happy to take a temporary transfer, they don't get what they bid for at shorthaul anyway, so will put up with no seniority and fly on the A380. Of course, if you take a temporary transfer, you may not even end up on the A380, nothing is guaranteed!! Either way transfers both permanent and temporary are sure to be oversubscribed.

Many of the crew headed to LH are originally from LH anyway. They enjoyed being at SH when we had all the regional flying, but now it's gone, it's time to go back!!

Anyway applications are closed now, so we will know soon.

[qfcabin]

Matt Kennedy..now , there was a man! He would be spinning hearing all the bickering and bullsh it going on here.

[RedTBar]

Posted by lnavvnavIn response to all the crud about Short Haul taking all "OUR" flying.....no division owns any flying.
The problem is that this same attitude from S/H that started all the ill feeling still exists.If S/H wanted to fly internationally why didn't they apply for L/H?
Posted by twiggsSound like you failed them mrpaxing,
Not that I thought it would be any different but you have it wrong again twiggs.If there is any failure to get information out it is a failure of the company and the union.
They are the ones who drew this plan up and it is them who should be telling crew the details and not leaving it to galley gossip.

[Trollywally]

if you take a temporary transfer, you may not even end up on the A380, nothing is guaranteed!!


My understanding is that all fixed term transfers will eventually end up on the A380

If you tick "A380 only " you will only be called up when a position on the A380 becomes available

If you dont tick "A380 only " you may initially be flying on 747 A330 and 767 but then move across to A380 as they arrive.

TW

[Boomerang_Butt]

Mate, as I've said time and again, when most MAM crew joined, there were no such thing as full time QAL jobs going. It was MAM, or no job. Individual circumstances are different, I had a mortgage to pay, so I had to work. I preferred to keep flying.

When I joined, we were told there'd be a good chance of applying for full time and thus getting a QAL job that way. Didn't happen. Yes, we knew the conditions when we signed, however we were hopeful of changing them for the better from the inside once we were in and had numbers. So far that hasn't happened, but it might be closer than we thought a year ago with the EBA up soon. I would have jumped at a full time job, only problem was, by the time they started offering QCCA, I was already in Perth. Not everyone want to live in Sydney or Melbourne- its about the lifestyle as well as the job. And I don't see why creww should have to take a drastic pay cut just to get sick leave.

Again, the transfer info sheet says QAL only, there iss no access to that information on the crew website for QD or MAM, besides it says you have to be in category for 2 years before you may transfer, so for the moment that rules out any QD anyway, aside from MAMs who transferred to QD, as their total service is counted for promotion etc.. at least, that's the way I read it. Is that correct Pegasus?

[OCCR]

ok boomerang.
the key words! thought and chance!
Hello we are talking about QF here.
"if its not in writing it never happened"

By the sounds of your post you want your cake and it eat too!

These days you have to go in with your eyes open! QF is a business and they will screw you!

Its only matter of time before we are done over as well! I expect that! its QF!

As an old commercial line stated!
"it wont happen overnight,but it will happen"

[Boomerang_Butt]

No, not really. I'm happy to stay where I am. I'm just trying to make the point that some people forget that MAM crew didn't have the option to choose to be full time or not, it was get what you're given.

Sure, it would be nice to a) be full time and b) go to the A380 but I know realistically that a lot has to change before either will happen. As I said, the best hoipe we have is to try better what we have got from where we stand now, I'm not trying to 'have my cake and eat it too', I'll leave that to some of the seniors who seem to want to go from SH to LH on the 380 but keep their bidding power!

[OCCR]

boomerand, looks like we are going around in circles.

you did have a choice! you accepted the job.

you stated that MAM crew didn't have the option to choose to be full time or not, it was get what you're given.

Given! huh! you chose!

Now you're whining! no one twisted your arms!

basically what you are saying is! youre pissed off as you don't have a choice to go on the 380 because you took the big cash the last few years !

why didnt you apply for QCCA when it became available a year ago! lots of your MAM colleagues did! but you wanted the cash! didn't you!

[RedTBar]

I was optimistic about this idea working when I first heard it.After reading the posts since then I think it is going to be as successful as the charge of the light brigade.
International and domestic are like water and oil.I think the Palestinians and the Israelis will get along better than we do.

[lnavvnav]

Using the old "you had a choice and you accepted the job" as an answer is not a valid one.
Once upon a time women were not allowed to vote........

Same sex marriages, White Australia policy, maternity/paternity leave etc etc.

Do we not undertake EBA negotiations periodically to improve and at the least maintain our conditions? Just because you accepted a MAM position does not mean you cannot try to improve your work conditions.

Plenty of MAM crew joined at a time when that was the only way in. A very limited number from the many who applied then moved to Perth for full-time QAL. This is not an option now. The goal posts keep moving.

Lets support all groups in order to become a better workforce.

[RedTBar]

Using the old "you had a choice and you accepted the job" as an answer is not a valid one.
I'm sorry but it is very valid.

Your argument is like joining a club or a game and then wanting to change the rules because they don't suit you or like those fools who buy a house near an airport then complain about the noise.

You made a decision and if you didn't do your homework then you have only yourself to blame.Why should others have to change their plans because you come onto the scene and want things moved around so that you feel better.
Life is not fair and thats the way it is.
Why didn't the mam crew apply for QCCA if they wanted to fly international?You chose to remain as a mam in s/h.

You are right in that it's normal to improve things for the better but not at the expense of others.

[OCCR]

in order to improve your conditions you must participate
..........................
how many MAM attend union meetings! or actively participate!
better still how many are members of the SH FAAA, not many!

hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[heads_down]

jungle juice

From memory heads_down said he/she used to work in QCC1

ok that's is not even the right memory, please remove that old module and put in that new microSD 16 gigs you can find anywhere in slip ports.

I said some incompetent CSM who applied to be CSM was rejected in sydney but got it with no problems in Perth, this CSM started out in mail room in QCC, we know why this CSM got the CSM position in perth base, because the base manager that promoted this person was shown the door one afternoon after a meeting with webster. Had to clear everything by 1400 and escorted out the building.

To think of no less than 6 to 10 supervisors promoted by her to CSM send shudder down your windscreen.

[packrat]

Round and round you go.
The information is there in plain english for all to read.
Most of the posters here need a remedial reading course.
This all affects those who would otherwise have been made redundant.To be blunt those at the bottom of any list.ie "last on first off".
A very pragmatic plan has been put in place where everyone gets to keep their job.
This and only this is what its all about...keeping your job.
All the rest of this nonsense is a waste of bandwidth

[Boomerang_Butt]

I love how people put words into my mouth.

You chose to remain as a mam in s/h.

How do you know that I did not apply for QCCA? In fact, I did. I got the 'on hold email' along with everyone else. I had an application in with QAL for a few years. By the time I got an interview and through the medical process etc they were no longer employing full time. It was MAM or nothing. At the time I became a MAM, there was still the option of career progression. I'm sorry if you thinking joining on the chance I might get that is 'chasing the big bucks'. Only someone who doesn't earn 32k a year as a QCCA would look down on someone for not wanting to put themselves in debt. If you had a mortgage would you effectiovely sell yourself out of 15-20k per year just to fly international?

It's not a process of wanting to change the rules after joining, it's a matter of being under that system for a few years and seeing that really it could be better and trying to work with the company on finding a solution to excessive sick leave rates and other issues which were happening with MAM crew. One solution put forward was with the way the rosters are done for casuals, if you give a little you get back in the form of people not calling in sick just so they can go to their sister's wedding which they were denied leave for.

but not at the expense of others
Improving the MAM EBA, please explain how that would be at the expense of anyone else? Our rosters affect us only, seeing as we get what is left over after full time have built their rosters around their lives, kids, hobbies, pets etc. All we are trying to do is to get a fraction of what everyone else gets, i.e. and improvement in the way we get our days off allocated. (Our *3* days off)

And how amny times do I have to say it, if no one else wants the A380 flying and the company want to use MAM/QD, then what the hell business is it of anyone who turned down the chance? I'm not saying I want the chance above any full timer, I'm saying it would be nice, if there were places left over after everyone else has had their pick, if we could also apply. It's like watching the mean kid in the playground who takes toys off the other kids just because they don't want to see anyone else playing with them! :ugh:

Anyway that is getting off the topic, all I am saying is don't slag off other crew who didn't happen to get the same opportunities as you, it's easy to throw rocks at others when you're sitting on your comfy 60k per year, annual leave and sick leave and especially when you don't have CR breathing down your neck.

Senior crew who complain they don't want to take some of the zillion days of leave they've accrued to save other people's jobs disgust me. It'ss called karma and one day it will bite all those people on the ass.

As for participation, ask the FAAA how many responses they got from the MAM EBA survey, quite a few actually! how many people went to the recent union meeting in Perth? Enough that there weren't enough chairs in the room. I can assure you MAM crew are just as involved and concerned as anyone else, in fact I would guess maybe more than certain crew who have been around for years.

And you can all keep saying we 'want our cake' but the fact remains if no one else wants A380 flying then I see absolutely no reason why QD or MAM should not be used if that is what the company want.

Anyway I've had enough of this, obviously some of you are lacking in the empathy department. Just try to see it from other people's side for a chance, it's frustrating to work just as hard as anyone else and not have many options to progress in your work!

[twiggs]

And you can all keep saying we 'want our cake' but the fact remains if no one else wants A380 flying then I see absolutely no reason why QD or MAM should not be used if that is what the company want.

To help you see why MAM cannot do A380, to do so you would have to become a fulltime employee, either QAL or QCCA, neither of which are being employed now.
There is no provision to be casual A380 crew.

[Boomerang_Butt]

Yes Twiggs, I know that, what I'm saying is that if the company really want to, they could do it with the agreement of the FAAA if it meant that it would cover flying and get rid of excess in SH. Not saying that it will happen, but that it isn't impossible.

It just seems that people are getting heated up about A380 being 'their' flying, when in reality the company could pretty much do what they want if it means saving people's jobs. Nothing to stop them transferring current employees into QD if they needed to, just the same as they are transferring people into LH from SH, the only restriction I've heard of is on external recruitment.

[DEFCON4]

A very succinct and well reasoned first post.
Welcome to PPrune.
PPrune needs more intelligent level headed posters like you.
Balances out the plethora of fools

[Sistema]

:ok:

Great points.. refreshing! Hope we get to fly together :)

[heads_down]

how do we know if N-BW is not a team manager posing as a crew here. Anyone can be anything here and anything can be anyone here.

How gullible to fall for a few lines. That's what team managers want you to be: follow and obey, follow and obey, no dissent, no oppose views, accept the status quo, love management, love company, love dob ins, hate differing views.

Sounds like a communist regime.

[Pegasus747]

Head's down

how do we know that you are not some escapee from a lunatic asylum.

"incompresensible jibberish, all over the place, disjointed, constantly unhappy, paranoid"

I mean seriously girl ....go and get some help !!!!



NURSE!!!!!!!

PS...one last thing .....if there are any team managers or any qantas employees that work in the office posting on here they would be doing it from home as QANTAS have locked out all access to PPRUNE from Qantas IT at work.

Now if they are doing it from home then they are very dedicated i would think and take themselves very seriously. Personally if i were not a flight attendant i wouldnt bother

[funbags]

4 pages here and 16 pages on the other thread in around a bout a week. That's 20 pages of going around and around in circles talking gibberish. :ugh:

[RedTBar]

pages of going around and around in circles talking gibberish.
There's no need to be so hard on yourself funbags.
But I do admit that I thought the same thing after reading your previous posts.The funny part is that even though you think something is gibberish you still spent the time to read it:hmm:
That just about say's it all about you funbags.
By the way have you had a haircut recently?;):p:p:p:p

[jungle juice]

From memory heads_down said he/she used to work in QCC1
The reply from heads_down.ok that's is not even the right memory, please remove that old module and put in that new microSD 16 gigs you can find anywhere in slip ports.
You might have your memory slipping yourself heads_down because you have forgetten what you wrote earlier.
In all my years of working in QCC, I can honestly tell all that the norm in Qantas Cabin Services is more "Crew dob in Crew" " the more the better"
if there are any team managers or any qantas employees that work in the office posting on here they would be doing it from home as QANTAS have locked out all access to PPRUNE from Qantas IT at work.
Nice try to put a spin on this Pegasus but do you think the internal QF system is the only way to access the internet at work for those who want to put their own spin on events just like the union does here on Pprune??

[bulstrode]

QF IT has indeed a lock on certain websites.Any QF terminal user will tell you that their usage is continually monitored.
Its not spin JJ its fact.Ask around at QCC and it will be confirmed.

[ditch handle]

Qantas- More a regime than a business :rolleyes:

[trolldolltrolldoll]

Dear Heads Down... You Are An Idiot... Its Not Only Me That Thinks It... Read The Rest Of The Posts Here. Nobody Has Any Regard Of Your Opinion, You Are Widely Regarded As A Fool... Go Away... Please!

[jungle juice]

bulstrode,
If you read my post again you will see that I am saying that the internal system is not the only way to access the internet.

You only have to look at why the company would go to the trouble of blocking a particular site.If no one in the office was looking at it and posting on PPRune then why would they bother?

[bulstrode]

You dont mean people might use an internet cafe or maybe even their own computer.
Wow how fiendishly clever.

[jungle juice]

bulstrode,it looks like you're finally starting to catch on.

However,how many internet cafes are there in QCC?:8:8:8

Have you heard of the saying
"There are people who can't see the forest for the trees"

[bulstrode]

Programmes used by Corporations to limit employee access to the internet dont target particular sites.Rather they limit access to innocous sites like Yahoo and Hotmail.
JJ your assumption is erroneous.
Case closed.Back to the thread topic

[jungle juice]

bulstrode,
There is nothing erroneous with my question rather it is your explanation or lack of that is flawed.

You're either technologically challenged or you want the subject closed.

Now why would that be?

[bulstrode]

JJ
FYI I am a qualified Microsoft technician.Have been known to build a computer or two.Humbly I suggest that I am not technically challenged.
You are flogging a dead horse.I note with interest that you are from Melbourne.Explains a lot.My last word on what is a trivial matter being pursued by an obsessive .
Back to the thread topic

[RedTBar]

Oh god JJ i'm no computer wiz and even I get what youre saying.
bulstrode,they don't have to use office computers do they.It's not as if they are busy either.
Nope no one in the office could possibly post on pprune because the company has got some secret electronic shield around QCC which blocks all internet access even to personal devices.bulstrode knows because he is a computer tecnician.
Have been known to build a computer or two.
That only narrows it down to half the population and from memory twiggs is into computers as well.
Now I know why you want to change the subject.

[heads_down]

Jambo juice

You might have your memory slipping yourself heads_down because you have forgetten what you wrote earlier.


In all my years of working in QCC, I can honestly tell all that the norm in Qantas Cabin Services is more "Crew dob in Crew" " the more the better"

ok juice, all I meant was working as a crew, all crews are not separate from the QCC umbrella, ella ella ella...

:rolleyes:

[RedTBar]

ok juice, all I meant was working as a crew, all crews are not separate from the QCC umbrella, ella ella ella...
Moderators,please can you do something about this nutcase.I've seen 2 year olds make more sense.

[Crusty Demon]

Testing .... Post being entered from QCC ..... Sorry to spoil the galley gossip

[OCCR]

heads down keep them coming you're a classic!!!!!!!!
:confused::ok::ugh::{:sad:

[argusmoon]

Contrary to popular belief promotion is no predicated on merit.It is based on being part of "The Club".You must be invited to join and once you are in you get to have anything you want.Management disregard the promotion process.
They believe it is their right to promote whoever they want.It is this cavalier attitude that disengages employees and why you now have a generation of OBMs who have to call someone before they make a decision.
Look at the fool in Buones Aires recently.The aircraft was delayed so he directed the crew to commence a meal service on the ground.This breaks just about every rule imaginable including those of CASA.But hey he is part of the Club...no Clause 11 for him.He was last seen having coffee with Webster

[airbus_galley_girl]

Previous communication advised that the names of successful applicants would be published on the Cabin Crew website by 1700 on 20 May 2009.

Please be advised that, as forms are still being processed, the names of successful applicants will now be published on the cabin Crew website no later than 1700 on Wednesday 27 May 2009.

[OCCR]

that one is interesting argus!

but before you come to conclusions, were the meal trays walked out !
the manual states that you cannot have carts out in the aisle,but you can deliver them by hand!
Even that is quite dangerous as the crew are not manning their doors.

Who would have ordered the crew to do such a foolish action

[twiggs]

I'd like to hear the full story on that one.
Seems a bit strange on such a long daylight flight to use some of the catering on the ground.
Was one meal service and a few refreshments going to last them for another 14 hours?

[jungle juice]

I'd like to hear the full story on that one.
So would we twiggs,so why don't you tell us?
If the delay was that enough time to do a meal service then it's long enough to send the pax back into the terminal.If it was not then just keep the pax informed as much as you can and start the IFE.
The CSM in question should be hauled over the coals for doing it but then we all know about the favoured ones.

[argusmoon]

Not wanting to incriminate my source but what about managements favourite CSM who was up to no good in the spa of the hotel in Singapore.His defense:the person who made the allegation had been counselled on a previous trip and the allegation was payback.Anyone else would have been stood down Clause11 issued pending an investigation.Just goes to show it pays to be part of "The Club"
The Buones Aires incident was carts in the aisles not handrun.The CSM did not consider the length of the daylight flight.He just wanted to keep the CC in the Cabin during the delay

[mrpaxing]

"stupid CSS/FA's did it let happen???. alll they had to do is a call to the captain advising of regs.-end of story:ugh:

[heads_down]

this whole favoritism thing has got to stop, I suggest dobbing the company in to CASA about Bueno Aires and I think that can be done anonymously.

This company just wreaks corruption left right and centre.

How did all this escape AJ's watch?

[Shazz-zaam]

Crew should have refused to do the service.
A Safety Hazard Report (SHR) should have been submitted, everyone is aware the carts are not allowed in the aisles or crossovers whlist on the ground (CCOM 15.30.3)
The CSM has disregarded SOP, the fool should have got a clause 11.
Now about managements (Fat Boy Slim) favourite CSM, are his initials
J E K??? In his defense he could have said that he was only debriefing him in the spa . :E

[BUN-TOSSERS RULE]

JEK On A380. 744 goes to BA.

[ditch handle]

Yes but it was JEK who slipped, "accidently falling into" that fellow in the SIN spa.

I'm believe the interview with Allison Webster where JEK was absolved of any wrong doing went something like this......

YouTube - Sir Norman Fry at Kings Cross (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF6eRIAA6mE)

[heads_down]

and you thought there was a fair go at QCC? Union my foot.

how many victims already hung out to dry by team managers and how many incompetent OBM had gotten away with no punishment whatsoever.

it's no wonder staff are disengaged.

team managers my foot, Union making sure there is fairness and fair go my foot
and the LG and AW and their whole little elderly ladies club can shaft it up the Apollo Rocket rear end. How come they have not been made redundant yet?

what's this spa rendezvous, sounds suss and clandestine.

Is everyone also aware some pretty good looking guy with no merit nor credential, ex BFA turned ex LHR csm turned LG's little boy all merely by looks alone. It's amazing how losing just a few kilos, he is now mister beautiful and acts the part too. Full of ****e.

[blackguard]

Anyone care to translate the last post?

[RedTBar]

If it was Swahili we would be able to find someone who could translate but this is something else again.
Has anyone recently been stood down or given a hard time in the office and is a sausage short of a bbq?

[stubby jumbo]

,,,,,,....that would be me !:ok:

I have been keel hauled across the bowels of QCC more times than I can mention...walking the hall of shame from Miss Piggy's office.

I have been abused, bullied, crapped on and lied to by the gaggle of CCTM's and CCM's since the start of this crew connect regime courtesy of one Mark Hassell ( come back Line Managers...all is forgiven)

I have already seen my goal realised in 2009-
punted-Il Duce, Darth,.....all I need now is for annus horribilis to continue and all of the CCTM's/CC,\m's to be punted over the little black dot....or as Frank Hyde once said-"straight between the posts":D

How the hell did the female stazi survive in this climate is beyond me. Miss Piggy, Tarantula, Power Point, and the Black Widow:sad:

Walking around the Q Buildings today-QCC/QCA/QCB is like walking through a cemetary. Heads down, depression &......FEAR

When is this all going to end. ????

The Rat is bleeding.

Its 1 minute to midnight!

Assume Brace positions.

Next week should be interesting.

Who's going to go next:oh:

[watch your6]

Every dog has its day.A certain CC manager with a shaven head got the punt a few years ago.About a year after his departure I saw him in a coffee shop obviously in a meeting and trying to impress.It gave me great pleasure to go over and say hello and tell his business associate what an absolute SOB this guy was.
He had been a nasty vindictive swine while at Qantas.
I slept very well that night

[heads_down]

there's quite a few more nasty cctm that have yet to meet their fate, when is that falling window going to hit them in the head?


It better be soon.

I have absolutely no sympathy for CCTM, they delight in thinking of ways to issue clause 11 and I really do believe they enjoy doing this and the 40 questions that follows.

A CCTM could be hit by a truck right outside QCC and bleeding and I would just walk pass it with not a single thought, that's how much damn I give these useless evil evil people. In particular one of them that had moved sideways and apparently has his own little room all to himself: he thinks that is such an achievement. Some people have such low standards.

But then what do you expect? coming from a company with pretty low standards
consistently dishing out low standards products and services, promoting people to managerial positions with no achievements to speak of, just layers and layers of brown nosing , too much discretion given to non tertiary qualified so called "managers" Extremely low standards in awarding so called "excel" awards to people who simply garnish votes through brown nosing and popularity.

All in all, just low low standards.

[Pegasus747]

Heads Down i am reporting you to the moderators. Your posts are not only idiotic they are also deeply offensive.

I think you should have a permanent ban from pprune as you have posted nothing but clap trap and highly offensive material over the last couple of weeks since you stumbled upon this forum

Everyone is entitled to free speech but you are now becoming deeply offensive. if you are a flight attendant i would hate to think you might be on my crew one day, I would hate to think that anyone that wears a uniform could be so offensive, unintelligent and revolting

[heads_down]

you often support management openly at PPrune, I wonder what is your agenda.

You often pick on people who despise management and seemed rather happy when people talk up management, why are you so pro management?

Why do you dislike opinions that are genuinely reflective of management practices that are unfair and discriminatory? What is management at Qantas offering you to police this forum of any anti management opinions?

And please stop this wearing uniform ****, many staff who wear Qantas uniform also take drugs and commit custom offenses, are you telling me they are more deserving of wearing that bankrupt designer's uniform over someone who actually told the truth about management and express an opinion here? You and your uniform fetish, it is not the first time you associate wearing Qantas uniform tantamount to being divine and devoid of any faults, you really have a mental issue. You really do think wearing the uniform is wearing a halo, well sadly you're not Beyonce. And I do believe not many people on this forum are wearing uniform when they are responding to threads.

[Pegasus747]

i am pro flight attendant. Pro being decent and have never attacked anyone other than imbeciles.

You are a very very sick person. i have never talked about hoping people are physically injured or relished in the pain and suffering of anyone.

Even our management are just workers like flight attendant and are paid to do a job. I dont allow it to become personal. I certainly wish them no ill. I just hope that they do their jobs fairly.

I dont have to agree with what they do but i dont take it personally. You on the other hand are a sociopath. Look it up .... you are vile

in fact i will never have to read another thing that you write as i have hit ignore and will no longer be able to see your vile rants

[heads_down]

you are no different from what you detest, look at you, you are passing value judgment over a fellow forum member. So while it is ok for you to pass value judgment on a forum member and label them whatever you like, imbeciles, vile, sociopath etc. but then it is suddenly a crime for me to say i dislike team managers and have no sympathy for them and label them whatever I like, What are you nuts?

Some of the analogies are not to be taken literally, I did not say I wish this or that to happen. You obviously do not understand the concept of analogies to have taken it so literally. And how strange for you to take it so personally for something that was not even directed at you but at the team managers, unless you are a team manager yourself.

I simply made it clear I have no sympathy for these people, nor give a damn about these evil evil people (CCTM) and I know many crew share the same opinion as myself. These are the same people who would take absolute delight in marching staff out the door in termination. You seemed to like the team managers for whatever reasons, I have never once see you mention any injustice that team managers inflict on crew and lord knows that happens all the time.

Once again, why are you pro team managers?

I thought only school kids do that : have a go at you and then cover their ears and ignore you. Sadly there are some maturity issue here as well.

[OCCR]

heads down go and seek some help!
EAP is free
Go to your doctor he will arrange an plan for you and then you can seek free Psychological help for free from medibank.

Honestly mate you really need help!

[OCCR]

as far as I am aware if he is a current CSS or CSM he can apply within category to the 380.
there is no sneakiness.
He is allowed to apply! simple
Anyway if they want him that desperately for the 380 let him GO!

if management like him that much then he must be despised by crew.

[heads_down]

all you need to realise is, qantas cabin promotion is never about merits nor achievements, all about popularity and how much your team manager loves you, oh having a couple of dob ins leading to termination of someone else's position under your belt helps

those who keep defending team managers are the ones who really need help
Since the democracy process within Qantas does not allow criticism nor scrutiny of managers, this forum provides a credible way to talk about them the way they would talk about you amongst themselves behind your back: and believe me nothing complimentary would be said about you behind your backs by team managers.

Union already openly say they only look after majority interest over minority interest, that is how they prioriatise, however they will take your money all the same.

[twiggs]

why should QCCA give you the annual money when you will always sell us down the drain anyway.....

I think you are being a little dramatic NB-W.
This agreement made CR not necessary for QCCA crew and has avoided forcing all QCCA to the A380.
So what if a few current CSS/CSM get a gig on the A380 if they want it.
Be patient, there will be many opportunities for promotion as more aircraft come.

[OCCR]

twiggs
Gen "y" and patience CANNOT be put in the same sentence and you have gone too far by putting it into the same line!

[mrpaxing]

the latest reschuffle in managers title has not seen any of them loose a job. tthe only ones loosing are a few CCM/CCTM. 15% is the target rate. it will be in the next 4 weeks before the end of the finacial year. cant see any changes in the big picture:}

[Flying Solo]

Leaked information from gods office in SYD has advised that all crew in CNS base who have applied for the A380 LH transfer have been taken with preference over all other crew, Due for the need of reducing the base for "imminent closure". I am guessing there will only be three days to find out if this information is true

[Flying Solo]

view new thread re: cns base all offered A380



----------------------

ONE A380 thread for CC is enough!

:mad:

Tail Wheel

[Flying Solo]

-- update --

Just spoke to one of the CNS based crew and they have been advised to "pack their bags"

[call button]

I suspect it is true that all CNS based cabin crew will get the A380 transfer, however I think this is very unfair to everyone else. The CNS based crew are the most junior SH QAL in the company, so why should they be given this opportunity ahead of all the other crew. Some SH FA's have had their name on the transfer list since before any of the CNS based crew were even employed by QAL.

[Flying Solo]

very true. however the CNS based crew operated international flights only for a year + in QF uniform and have been trained from the first day in good customer service and procedure. Possibly the company would like to finally get some good service into LH?? not SH crew who can only throw muffins

[call button]

Flying Solo, we all know that the transfers to the A380 have nothing to do with experience, or how good you are at your job. It is simply a case of where you are based, and the future plans for that base.

And..... CNS based crew may have operated international flights, but they were on clapped out 767's, hardly comparable to the A380. Crew in other bases generally have a lot of international experience on A330's.

[Flying Solo]

And because they were on the horrible 767, they actually had to talk to pax rather than reply on IFE to make a 9 hr flight enjoyable. I have flown with alot of CNS crew, and most of them blow us out of the park with customer service and doing their job. Not to mention i think they are happy to still be employed and strive to make the business better.. just observations!

[call button]

Well I still think it is totally unfair that opportunities are available/not available purely on the basis of which base you are in. I bet that no transfers are awarded to PER based crew, as the company are still trying to increase that base.

Aside from that... Does anyone know what will happen to those CNS based crew that did not apply for a LH transfer. I'm sure that not every single person applied. Will they be offered a move to PER or made redundant? Or will there still be a tiny base operating out of CNS?

[Machinegun Fellatio]

What is a senior Flight attendant in LH?
Someone who has more than 25 yrs service?
My experience with these senior people has seen them do a very professional job with a minimum of fuss.These Senior Crew actually talk to pasengers.Some of the people employed of late have very limited interpersonal skills.FFS they dont even talk to each and have zero senses of humour.
Give me senior crew any day:no bitching just getting on with the job.
FYI the sector that has the highest level of compliments from pax is SYD/ LAX/SYD and that was before the A380 arrived

[Flying Solo]

There were only 40 applications received from CNS base for LH. which will sit the base at around 70 crew. And with the hand over of 767 and Airbus flying to LH, i doubt they will need them in PER. As all they will be doing is 737 mine runs. A CBR overnight on the direct 737 will now be the senior bid

[stubby jumbo]

settle -heads down.

If you go back through my posts I have not been pro cc management since this crew connect debacle was hoisted upon us.

BUT...........even your comments are going that bit too far.

Sure I would love to see them punted as their skills are more suited to another workplace eg Woolies.

But your tone and language are way over the top.

:}

[heads_down]

it takes a lot to make a person hate a group of people so much, unfortunately those team managers don't even have to try, the mere sight of them just makes me sick already.

Incompetent workers should be sack and not allowed to manage people. Simple as that. We all do know that none of these so called "managers" will land "managerial" position in a normal company say BHP or NAB. it's abnormally low standards that foster this behavior.

last check, managers are supposed to manage their people so that they all become more successful than the manager who managed them in the first place, something tells me Qantas rewrite that to managers are there to make sure the people they manage stay as unsuccessful as they can make them.

[tail wheel]

Too many problems in this thread to sort out.

Some are not playing very nice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/Closed.gif