100 Qantas Pilots to join Jetstar

[zonker]

It's a rumour ...

100 Qantas pilots to join Jetstar as FOs. Solves Jetstar's FO shortage and Qantas' pilot excess. Probably tied to ...

Transfer of A330(s) to Jetstar, some (3 or 4) to be based in Darwin. This in turn driven by ...

Jetstar to start Europe flights from Darwin. Tech stop at a mid-East port, probably Dubai, in an response to ...

Strong market share by Emirates and Etihad has eroded Qantas' market share. Already too many LCC through south-east Asia, none yet on the mid-East route. Also ...

A330s ordered by Qantas do not have the oxygen supply necessary to fly via Afghanistan or China, necessitating a mid-East flight plan.

[Mr. Hat]

Strange not long ago some QF people wouldn't even spit on a job at J*.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Jetstar to start Europe flights from Darwin. Tech stop at a mid-East port, probably Dubai,...

Why would potential EU pax choose to fly to/via Darwin when they can 1 stop from virtually any EU city, via DXB, to Mel/Syd/Per/Bne multiple times/day?

[BeerBaron]

Why would potential EU pax choose to fly to/via Darwin when they can 1 stop from virtually any EU city, via DXB, to Mel/Syd/Per/Bne multiple times/day?

Cheap tickets. Passengers on Jetstar already fly SYD/MEL to BLI/SIN/SGN via DRW, often with several hours on the ground at DRW at some ungodly hour. So I suppose there may be a market there, even with the stopovers, if it's cheap enough.

[mostlytossas]

Agree there about the ticket prices. Only a couple of weeks ago my sister and brother in law booked on a cruise that ends at Honalulu. The travel agent they used booked it all including hawaii stopover etc and return flights home to Sydney. That caused the problem. $2000 ea one way to fly on either Qantas or United home. I told them they are joking and got involved on the internet. The result $695ea on Jetstar a saving of nearly 3k. Sure the LCC might not be the best way to travel with no movies, pay for your meals etc..but, that is a massive difference and can only end up with the LCC's gaining the bulk of the tourist traffic in time unless the legacy carriers wake up to themselves.

[Dale Hardale]

100 Qantas Pilots to join Jetstar

It's a rumour ...


Not a rumour ... was all set in train at a meeting very recently.:E

[Derek P]

Strong market share by Emirates and Etihad has eroded Qantas' market share. Already too many LCC through south-east Asia, none yet on the mid-East route. Also ...

Jetstar is about to overtake Emirates in terms of Australian market share. Jetstar is 0.1% behind EK. Considering EK is operating high capacity metal and JQ has 6 330's and a couple of A320's on SHI, this is a pretty good indication on where things are going...

[Beeroclock]

That writing was on the wall along time ago..And those that didnt see it must have had there eyes shut..Exactly the same as VB..Bully pilots in to positions they never wanted by threats of redundancies..Just another way for management to achieve what they want and need!! A...holes..

[Capt Kremin]

AIPA COM members know nothing of this. Ring and ask one like I did if you don't believe me.

[Mr. Hat]

Sounds lie some significant lifestyle changes coming up. Does anyone know if it is off the bottom of the list or otherwise?

[SkyScanner]

Solves Jetstar's FO shortage
If Jetstar has an F/O shortage why did they try and cut the Qantas pilots on exchange contracts short?

[Capt Kremin]

The only practical way it could happen is SO's being made redundant from mainline could be offerred FO slots at Jetstar via the MOU.
As far as transferring more A330's to Jetstar, Alan Joyce was asked by the AIPA President about this a few weeks ago and was told categorically that it wasn't going to happen.
Mind you, the LH EBA was being voted on at the time and perhaps Joyce would say anything to get that over the line. That was certainly Dixons style.

[OhSpareMe]

The only practical way it could happen is SO's being made redundant from mainline could be offerred FO slots at Jetstar via the MOU.

Correct me if I am wrong but I recall that the MOU only applies to people in Jetstar/QANTAS at the time when it was enacted. That means new hires in the last few years are not eligible. Can't be bothered looking it up.

[fearcampaign]

Wrong,

CTC graduate cadets from the UK will be taking up F/O positions in Jetstar where there are shortages.

CTC Wings is the one of the world's top flight airline pilot training programmes, turning dreams into exciting careers with world-class airlines including easyJet, Thomson Airways/First Choice Airways, British Airways, Jet2.com, Monarch Airlines, Thomas Cook Airlines, JETSTAR, CityJet, DHL Air, Eagle Airways (New Zealand) and easyJet Switzerland..

Due to the downturn in Europe they are being deployed where airline positions are hard to fill such as Jetstar.

[Rhodes13]

fear campaign I would suggest to you that the Jetstar quoted there was for the Vietnam operation.. bit of difference hey!

And lets not get started on how CTC is destroying the market with 6 month contracts for newly qualified guys and paying them 1000 pounds a month for the privilege shall we? :ugh:

[fearcampaign]

Wrong,

CTC cadets originally earmarked for Easyjet on their way to Jetstar NZ as well.

[waren9]

Just how many of these cadets have the right to live and work in NZ? How many are Kiwis?

I wonder, have the NZCAA rubber stamped the NZ JQ company manuals that (that would need to) allow 300hr FO's with no time on type to crew an aircraft conducting RNP approaches into ZQN? Has JQ NZ even got an AOC yet?

From what I heard, AirNZ worked long and hard to get its RNP operation up and running and Jetstar are not finding it that easy either.

[rescue 1]

I would have to look at the NZ rules, but I recall that you require 500Hrs for part 121 operations...

[apache]

100 Qantas pilots to join Jetstar as FOs. Solves Jetstar's FO shortage and Qantas' pilot excess.

gee... what a surprise!

[bullamakanka]

Gee thats great news......

I can hear it already, you QF guys are lucky we are hear to save you.

[Oldmate]

I'm glad you are "hear" to save them.

[Artificial Horizon]

You nare all wrong acutally, CTC is the company that is placing Easyjet pilots from previous cadet courses with Jetstar NZ. But the requirement to apply for the secondment (which by the way is only a short term 4 month placement) is to have atleast 1500 hours on type. CTC is offering $10,000 nzd per month and a conversion to the NZ ATPL for the contract. So they will be experienced.

[fearcampaign]

AH,

Thanks for the finer detail.

I knew cadets came from Easyjet however was not aware that they already had time with the airline.

I was in no way questioning the standard of the flight crews, cadets or otherwise ex EZY.

A good friend works in standards with BA and speaks extremely highly of all the crew/cadets who are ex Easyjet.

As I understand when things return to normal in Europe the cadets will rush back to Easyjet.

Good pay and conditions, fast progression to command and good representation from BALPA. Not like the race to the bottom mentality here.

I'm sure they will be surprised how bad the pay/conditions are with Low cost carriers in Australia/NZ.

Jetstar should have been looking for Ryanair cadets.They will be used to the mindset in these parts.

[Klokan747]

I am sure a lot of pilots would LOVE to get transferred to Jetstar to fly their aircraft on the QF longhaul award!

[BeerBaron]

Dale Hardale said:

Quote:
100 Qantas Pilots to join Jetstar

It's a rumour ...

Not a rumour ... was all set in train at a meeting very recently.

Care to elaborate?

[astroboy55]

hmmm, i wonder if any of us in the Q group will ever again see the opportunity to join a European airline like easyjet or ryanair on a 'short term contract'......sounds like a hell of a lot of fun!!!

doubt it though......

[teresa green]

Well look on the brightside, at least you will get a command before you are to old to care, less bucks yes, but it is amazing what you can used to, send the missus and the kids if necessary, back to work, by the time krudd has finished with you, (no private medical reductions, more tax (to pay for the bogans to get more tatoos) no maternity leave assistance, and god only knows what other little surprises they have in store for us tomorrow, all because we got off our ar#e and studied for a profession in flying/aviation, and had the hide to make a buck, so going to JQ might be a blessing in disguise, less pay, less tax, for you young blokes, who knows you might be better off in the long run.:rolleyes:

[hotnhigh]

Spot on Teresa. You wont need as much money up in Darwin, the cost of the endorsement will be tax deductible (unless that changes tonight as well!), and you can salary sacrafice the cost of relocating all of your family.
Something about spitting Mr Hat?

[Capt Kremin]

Pity it is all a load of doggie doo doo.

[Transition Layer]

teresa green

Just a clarification (and a bit of thread drift):

no maternity leave assistance

The maternity leave assistance which will be announced tonight is only means tested on the primary carer (i.e. usually the mother). Therefore you could earn $1 million but as long as your wife doesn't earn more than $150,000 you qualify. I agree the new rules on the private health insurance rebate are a kick in the nuts.

As for the command, I'm willing to wait if it means it's got a Kangaroo on the tail and flown under decent conditions.

[carro]

Beg to differ Hotnhigh, the expense of living in Darwin is huge. I'm currently looking for another rental, and there is nothing decent under $700 a week. Happy hour at deck bar is the only thing cheap up here!

[Mr. Hat]

Thats right high ironic that QF pilots could find themselves in the Silver colours when some once upon a time saw the Jetstar types as beneath them.

[Capt Kremin]

Mr Hat, I say again; This entire thread is a load of codswallop.

[Mr. Hat]

Fair enough.:ooh:

[noip]

CK

Absolutely!

N

[Pedota]

Capt Kremin

You may well be right . . . but the 'rumour' might also be the result of a change in consumer sentiment to select cheaper fares (see below).

Also, if air fares have fallen between 20% - 40% (as reported below) and there are fewer people flying, those airlines with a lower cost base are probably in a better position for the current circumstances.

But this is based entirely on one article - perhaps there is more?

Cheers

Pedota



Air fares cheapest for decade
Jonathan Dart
May 13, 2009

AIR FARES are at their cheapest in more than a decade as airlines discount tickets in a contest for budget travellers.

The managing director of Webjet, David Clarke, has calculated that international fares have fallen, on average, by 40 per cent, and domestic fares by about 20 per cent, this year.

He said a range of factors had contributed to the bargains: a fall in demand for first-class and business-class tickets, increased capacity, greater competition and a fall in the number of tourists travelling from countries such as the US.

But the main trend has been a shift in consumer sentiment. Passengers are hunting for budget tickets and are not willing to pay the normal fare.(My emphasis).

New carriers such as Tiger Airlines have joined the domestic market in recent months, and Delta Air Lines will break into the trans-Pacific market in July.

Return fares to Los Angeles are about $1000, down from about $2000 a year ago, while return tickets to London cost about $1500, down from $2500.

"A major discount on domestic air fares was launched (last) Wednesday morning and the reaction from the travelling community was absolutely instantaneous," Mr Clarke said. "By 9am we were running at absolutely peak levels, so the market is very, very sensitive to bargains. It waits for them, it hunts them out."

A Flight Centre spokesman, Haydn Long, said there had been a fall in demand for long-haul international flights.

Mr Clarke said: "Where we've most noticed the change is the premium long haul, the top end of the market. The adventure market has been quite strong all year - those guys who are the backpackers and are not concerned about mortgages or job security."

While there is disagreement as to how long the discounting will last, Mr Long said current prices were unsustainable.

But for businesses, at least, the thrift mentality will be hard to shake.

Linda Brettell, managing director of Sanford Travel in Sydney, is working with a large number of her corporate clients to adjust to the recession.

She said there had been a significant reduction in first-class and business-class travel and an increase in teleconferencing as an alternative to travel.

But she said there were some important caveats for businesses trying to cash in on airlines' race to the bottom, with strict conditions being placed on the discount fares.

"Companies are going best fare or the cheapest fare of the day, however it is not always in their best interest - companies need to consider the real cost," Ms Brettell said.

"Buying the cheapest flights and pre-paying accommodation in full prior to travel leaves no flexibility for changes or cancellations and companies are forfeiting hundreds of dollars when travel plans change," she said.

[Capt Kremin]

No-one is denying that demand for air travel has fallen due to the GFC.

However, this thread specifically mentions that "meetings" have taken place to allow 100 pilots from Qantas to be transferred to Jetstar. The originator of the thread speculated it was to facilitate the transfer of mainline A330's to Jetstar and that the transferred pilots would be FO's.

AIPA had a COM meeting yesterday and no such proposal was mentioned. You would think such a proposal would have been number one on the agenda. Nothing.

Either the AIPA Exec aren't telling their own COM something extremely important or there is absolutely no substance to the rumour. My bet is on the second option.

The AIPA Exec brought the further transfer of mainline A330's to Jetstar up with Joyce who ruled it out categorically. Take that for what it is worth. If redundancies are going to happen in mainline they will be by the contract. So unless the bottom 100 pilots are A330 endorsed then that would mean redundancy out of seniority or the transferring of pilots, against their will, to a different lower paying airline to do the same job .

Regardless of what the AFAP did or did not do to defend the Virgin pilots from that, AIPA is cashed up and the Company could expect one hell of a fight. Transferring pilots from one base to another out of seniority is one thing; transferring them out of seniority, possible out of category, into a supposedly separate airline is quite another.

Nothing of the sort has been mentioned by AIPA and it is a legal morass without AIPA's express consent, which one would hope, they would never give.

It's a load of codwallop.

[Mstr Caution]

Codwallop - Correct

Per the MOU, only those employed at the time of the agreement are elgible for the exchange of career opportunities afforded by the MOU.

Those who do choose to avail themselves of the MOU, do so on a voluntary basis & as such are required to meet the selection criteria of the recipient airline.

Except that:

The MOU has a redundancy clause, whereas should a pilot be made redundant from one group airline, then transfer would be facilitated, should the recipient airline need crew & subject to the recipient airlines selection criteria.

Any redundancy in mainline would have to be as per the certified agreement. Last ON first OFF principle. So any reference to transfer of crew would be applicable to SO's, of which a large proportion are not eligble. As for those SO's remaining, SO's who really wanted to transfer to J* have already done so a few years back or weren't allowed release from mainline at the time.

[breakfastburrito]

Any redundancy in mainline would have to be as per the certified agreement. Last ON first OFF principle. So any reference to transfer of crew would be applicable to SO's, of which a large proportion are not eligble. As for those SO's remaining, SO's who really wanted to transfer to J* have already done so a few years back or weren't allowed release from mainline at the time.Looks like an own goal there.

The whole deal of assigning leave & LSL to mainline crew whilst employing/OS contractors in j* would appear demonstrable example of loading the costs onto the mainline side of the business. To what end?
The last AIPA president begged and pleaded to allow flexibility (the sort mainline pilots are accused of not being able to demonstrate) in crewing group aircraft to minimise this exact problem.
It would appear that management are demonstrating their inflexibility, perhaps this has been the problem all along.

[tsalta]

The whole deal of assigning leave & LSL to mainline crew whilst employing/OS contractors in j* would appear demonstrable example of loading the costs onto the mainline side of the business. To what end?

Unless you have some accounting skills you should really refrain from such absurd statements.

Leave entitlements are a liability incrementally incurred by the employer during the course of an employees work. Even if as you infer, crew were transferred to J* instead of contract workers, the leave liability still exits within mainline.

tsalta

[breakfastburrito]

Tsalta, you've got me, I'm not an accountant.
Since you are, can you please explain the business case to have an employee sitting sitting on additional assigned leave, whilst employing someone else to do the work in another part of the organisation?

[Jabawocky]

breakie burrito has a valid point!

If it was my business, and i had a surplus of higher cost Airbus Captains even in mainline, I would provide them to JQ at the cost of JQ F/O's even if thats what was needed for the duration required. Beats the costs of importing training etc etc and still paying the other bloke to sit at a desk or at home! That sounds like some of the things at Ansett...........but lets not go there!

J

[fearcampaign]

Mmmmmm,

Do you really think a QF Airbus mainline pilot who is being assigned leave, be it annual or long service, is going to suddenly pack up and move to NZ for a salary in JQ that would be one of the lowest in the western world and as an F/O?

The Aussie JQ guys/girls don't even want to go!

Like others have stated, S/O's are the first to go in regards to QF job losses and they are not qualified!

Not to mention moving costs, selling/Renting the house, moving children/schools e.t.c if one Elects or is even allowed to move.

The JQ/QF MOU sounds all warm and fuzzy but at the end of the day too restrictive and useless.

The F/O's from overseas are already A320 endorsed and are willing to move to NZ for a change.Doubt if money is their top priority.
Some are probably Kiwi's that are heading home for a stint.

Mountain out of a molehill.

You should be making more of a fuss about the nice shiny new Qantas 737-800's that are now being flown by Jetconnect crews with nice Red tails and Qantas uniforms.

[Pedota]

I’m with Jabawocky on this one . . . people sitting at home on any kind of leave not producing any revenue is VERY expensive and should be avoided at all costs. Getting some kind of revenue for them at JQ is a much less expensive option.

But there is a bigger picture . . . which Fearcampaign alludes to in the question posed about “shiny new Qantas 737-800's that are now being flown by Jetconnect crews with nice Red tails and Qantas uniforms”.

Fearcampaign is right – he correctly predicts the future, in my humble opinion. I regularly listen in to ‘Eastern xxx’ reporting over Wonthaggi . . . and yet the average punter thinks they are on a Qantas flight (says so on the ticket), sitting in a Qantas aircraft (certainly looks like one) that it is being flown by Qantas pilots (they certainly act like that at the airports).

And of course everyone trusts Qantas – right?

Cheers

Pedota

[James Boag]

Do transfers have to go via MOU

How about a secondment to Jetstar?

[Angle of Attack]

Whether anyone is sitting at home or not is not the point leave is accumulating and it is a growing liability, it has to be paid out, and if companies delay it it gets paid out on higher rates of pay?! Correct me if I am wrong but putting people on leave now actually saves money rather than delaying it thats why it is happening! I would be very happy for my leave to accumulate and get used in a decade! Unfortunately its not gonna happen! lol!

[James Boag]

:uhoh:

any QF S/O would be more than capable of operating as an F/O with no more than line training, on the same type. ie.A330


Don't know about that........

[SIDS N STARS]

It's horses for courses i guess !!

Get a flying job...prob in Darwin with JQ, .. or be an in flight office b*tch for the next 6 yrs, with the possibility of having to move anyway ?? :{

[tsalta]

people sitting at home on any kind of leave not producing any revenue is VERY expensive and should be avoided at all costs.

What? Allowing people to take leave should be avoided at all costs? You sound like you would be very happy to hand back all your leave and soldier on. For right or wrong, leave is an entitlement and the liability to employers cannot be avoided. Not quite correct, as it can be avoided, but at a substantial cost.

Breakfastburrito stated that assigning leave was front loading costs onto mainline. I was pointing out how this assertion was incorrect. Not debating the pros and cons of contract crew versus existing crew.

The leave which is being assigned is already on the Qantas books as a liability. Even if it was possible to send crew to J* without busting open an enormous can of worms, the liability still exists.

tsalta

[airtags]

tsalta - quite correct burning leave, especially prior to 30 June reduces the liability on the balance sheet - it does however impact on the net operating for the qtr and that's a factor that Messrs Creedy and Co will have to guesstimate in their writings when the annual reporting season begins.


The question is however if JQ really needs 100 extra drivers, where are they really going to be slogging to?
JQ has already had a circa 35% lift in pax bums - as Going Boeing rightly pointed out - largely on the back of the xfer of routes and airframes from mainline.
QF has a new app with JAL for codeshare on SYD/MEL/SIN - reciprocals for this it could see the red tail 330 Japan service replaced with QF pax respectfully shunted onto JAL and the balance of the business (typically discount/non travel agent originted + frieght) covered by JQ - that would of course free up (yet?) another 330 airframe for deployment to JQ........speculation of course that goes back to the first bullet point and AJ's statment to AIPA which like most QF statements, are prefaced with ..."at this time, [insert relevant g'tee]

[astroboy55]

Quote:
any QF S/O would be more than capable of operating as an F/O with no more than line training, on the same type. ie.A330

Don't know about that........

So....are you saying that a QF SO with a few years on the aircraft, who is familiar with procedures etc is not at the same standard as someone off the street? Or are you assuming all the 330 FO's have come from the 320. From what I hear from my mates in JQ, the guys coming from the 320 to the 330 are not going very well at all.....

Or is a QF SO on the 330 is not at the same standard as a JQ CFO on the 330, who is moving from the 330 to the 320 as an FO? Funny...i thought that was exactly same move....

Please clarify...

[Sand dune Sam]

I thought that the Qantas guys were not allowed to go to Jetstar? Something to do with the QF guys polluting the Jetstar culture?:ugh:

[James Boag]

Please clarify... Sure.

The comment was made:

"any QF S/O would be more than capable of operating as an F/O with no more than line training, on the same type. ie.A330"

I cannot comment on Jetstar operations that u alluded to. I disagree with the above comment because QF second officer endorsement simulator training and first officer endorsement simulator training are essentially very different. There are skills that are required as an F/O that are not taught to the same standard as an S/O in the sim as the job descriptions are different. Therefore I disagree that without doing the F/O endorsement sims an S/O would be able to transfer to F/O with only line training. Also, if the S/O was going to F/O on a longhaul type which would carry an ‘S/O’ or ‘CFO’ or whatever they are called today, they would require a M/E Command Instrument Rating which, as S/Os have co-pilot instrument ratings, presents a problem to the above comment.

I am not trying belittle the S/O role here, S/Os are a vital part of the operation and are an essential link in the error chain on the routes they operate on which usually involve time zone changes and the associated fatigue. I am just saying when to seat move is made, more than just line training would be required. I do agree however that any (or most anyway) QF S/O would be more than capable of operating as an F/O on any type with the required training...:)

[James Boag]

Also

Or is a QF SO on the 330 is not at the same standard as a JQ CFO on the 330, who is moving from the 330 to the 320 as an FO? Funny...i thought that was exactly same move....


If at Jetstar the only training done when moving from 330 CFO to 320 FO was line training then I would be alarmed...:ugh:

[MrWooby]

I would say that one of the major areas where SO training is lacking compared to FO training is the approach and landing phase. Sure the SO can fly instrument approaches but the actual landing gets less emphasis than if you were doing a FO conversion. The is not much emphasis placed on aim point retention, visual transition in low vis situations, crosswinds etc. Basically if you can get it on the ground in a reasonable manner you will pass you're cyclic.
But this is just the nature of the beast, we aren't trained to be takeoff/land pilots we are cruise pilots only and the training emphasis is on that. However it would only take a few sims to achieve the required standard. And if the rest of the crew went missing in action, I am sure that any SO would be able to do a safe manual landing, although autoland would be the preferred option.

[assasin8]

Heard this one just recently... All the J* crew to be moved onto the QF long haul award and be paid what a pilot is entitled to after all the years of hard work and below pay and conditions they have to put up with in GA!:ok:

[fearcampaign]

Few Points,

I agree with Tsalta.

It is easier for the company to manage the excess pilots in QF now through leave and LSL.
From what I am told in QF this is how the contract is written.

QF are legally held to manage excess numbers using steps outlined in the contract.
Transferring pilots to JQ may or may not be a wise idea but agreed steps are in the contract and they have precedence.

If a QF F/O takes his LSL now on the 767 it is cost affective for QF to pay it now and not in twenty years time when he is a Captain.

The future liability is reduced at a cheaper rate now presuming said F/O obtains command or promotion in years to come.

The issue is not about qualified S/O's or who is more qualified JQ or QF. Immature route to go down.

JQ has the right to employ those whom it feels are most qualified at the time of need.

A song and dance was made about ten or less contract F/O's joining JQ NZ.
My point was that it is no big deal. These guys have a minimum of 1500 hours on type as F/O's with a s*&^load of experience flying multi sector days in busy European airspace.

If it gets down to the point of job losses then I think QF guys should have the right to a gig in JQ.
It is however premature to jump to this step until measures have been exhausted by AIPA and the company.

Should it get that bad we will have the answer.

[astroboy55]

James B

Cheers, understand what you're getting at now....

FWIW the training for the CFO's on the 330 to go to FO on the 320 is a CCQ with a few sims, and then line training...thats it.
:)

[James Boag]

Mr Wobby, agree totally, that is why I am saying that to move from S/O to F/O would require sims which would emphasis (of the top of my head): RTOs, V1 cuts, Low Vis, Engine out handling at low altitudes and engine out approach and landings as well as all engine approach and landings with particular attention (ie much greater emphasis) to handling, aim point retention, flare technique etc etc. as you point out some of this is lacking in the S/O endorsement because they are different jobs and it is not required. What is required is proficiency in SOPs to know what you are actually there to monitor and then support in the event the Capt or FO become incapacitated, and I guess if you subscribe to having a ‘double failure’ (of both Capt and FO) then yes they could land safely.

Back Seat Driver, I am aware of the licensing requirements for Long Haul crew, however not sure if is it the same at Jetstar? I do not think the standard of the S/O endorsement is different to an F/O endorsement because of the type of instrument rating, I think it’s because of the training required for the job required. In any event yes S/Os hold a co-pilot rating so technically they are qualified (once recent etc) to operate as a co-pilot I guess, however I do not think the standard of the S/O endorsement training would be such that “any QF S/O would be more than capable of operating as an F/O with no more than line training, on the same type. ie.A330” without doing some simulator training as well which has been my only point to this conversation throughout. If it was possible to do the aforementioned statement, why do they bother having SO/FO training in the sim at all for the same type. I think we both know the answer (and if only to get a MECIR then why do they have more than one sim).

Astroboy, no worries, was just trying point out, even with CCQ or being on the same type, the jump to FO from CFO or S/O requires more that just line training. Cheers.

[Wingspar]

Jimmy

Very politically, and politely, correct of you. Unfortunately poor old S/O endorsement is next to useless outside of QF. S/O's are more useful brewing a cuppa on ferry flights than anything else...sorry but the truth.

By the time QF management work out how to manage the surplus the recovery will be here anyway.

[tsalta]

To a degree the SO / FO debate depends on an individuals previous experience.

As a very junior SO on the A388, I am absolutely certain that I would need substantial additional training and experience in a whole raft of areas to even get close to FO standard. In my instance, with no previous jet time I am definitely lacking in energy management skills for the descent and approach phases. If all the systems are working, the weather is fine and no last minute ATC changes then all would be sweet. However, in the real world, I know I am not even close.

Other people with previous command/FO jet time would probably not have this issue to the same extent. Horses for courses.

At the moment, I just happy no pink slip has arrived in my mail box, yet.....

tsalta

[Jetbest]

When QF S/O's came to Jetstar it did not matter whether they where from the 747,767, or the A330,they had to do the full endorsement for either the 320 or 330.CASA does not recognise the S/O rating and therefore requires the full deal.
Having been involved with guys of the Boeing and the Airbus from QF there was not a lot of difference,which did surprise me a little.At the end of the day both groups checked out,resigned from QF after the applicable time and most are now 320 Capts.:D

[caneworm]

One would expect assignment of mainliners to jq to be in reverse order seniorority.
Heard recently there may be an ambiguous clause in the latest (voted up eba) that allows the co to choose who goes & who doesn't.
Someone please, say it isn't so...:eek:

[Beeroclock]

Pedota..

How do Jittconnect pilots wearing Qantas uniforms act like Qantas pilots at the airports?? This will be interesting...:eek::eek:

[fearcampaign]

Don't think he is having a go at the Jetconnect Crews personally.

Whether your a QF, JQ or a VB pilot is not the point.

At any time it should be of great concern that there are other pilots out there operating the exact aircraft, with the identical company logo and the same uniform on less pay and conditions. Period.

Look at the pattern emerging.:mad::mad::mad:

QF with Jetconnect.
JQ with JQ NZ
VB with Pacific Blue/V Australia

Australian pilots unions from AIPA, the JQ pilots council, the AFAP and NZALPA have a lot to be ashamed for.
This S%*# only happens in this neck of the woods.:confused:

We fight amoungst fellow aviators whilst the above companies sit back, have a chuckle and watch us create our own collective downfalls.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[oicur12]

"This S%*# only happens in this neck of the woods."

An ignorant statement if ever there was one.

Do you know how many non BA companies have carried the BA logo over the years?

What about Lufty cargo. And Virgin express in days gone by.

Do you think Delta pilots enjoy seeing RJ's fly the famous widget.

In fact, as I sit here in my North American nightstop airport waiting for a late flight, I cant help but notice that most of the major carriers serving this city do so with mainline aircraft as well as their lowly paid "Eastern" variant.

Your comment indicates how blinkered you are to the wider airline industry.

You should get out a bit more.

[blow.n.gasket]

fearcampaign are you for real?

I don't think your anger should be directed at the Unions but rather the Governments who legislate such Laws that allow management to do what they presently are doing.
The Unions can only comply with the laws of the land and as such are pretty well hamstrung thanks to Howard.