Ardmore Flying School vs. CTC Wings Hamilton

[FuturePilot79]

Hi guys, I was just wondering if people could please share their thoughts (good or bad) on either of these two training schools. I am looking at doing my pilot training and had heard various comments about where I should be going. If I was going to nail it down to either of these two, AFS or CTC - which would you recommend? I am needing to get a student loan, hence why the aero club options are out. I look forward to hearing from you! Cheers.

[always inverted]

Dont know much bout ctc, you could do the JAR liscense there tho. AFS is full of wank$rs, has been for a couple of years now.
At least the guys at CTC are professional.

[XRNZAF]

To be honest.... None of the above.

But if I had to choose, I would go with CTC. Really wouldn't touch AFS with a barge pole...

[FuturePilot79]

Any reasons for your discouraging AFS or just personal opinion?

[troppo]

AFS is full of wank$rs, has been for a couple of years now.


Don't you mean decades?

[c100driver]

Agreed troppo, have been full of them for years and lead from the top down. CTC is really the only good option compared with the rest.

[6080ft]

oh no yet another AFS bashing thread...............boring

[toolowtoofast]

Dont know much bout ctc, you could do the JAR liscense there tho. AFS is full of wank$rs, has been for a couple of years now.
At least the guys at CTC are professional.

IF you had EU residency, went to the UK and applied and were accepted to CTC for the Wings Course you could do the JAR licence.

Otherwise it's NZ CPL/MEIR.

If you're really keen, and can't decide, go and visit each setup and make it on what you see, not what you hear on here.

[27/09]

There are other options than CTC or AFS in this geographical area. Take a look at Bay Flight Tauranga or Waikato Aero Club, both have good experienced CFI's and staff and they can do the student loan thing if you need that. I would recommend these over the other two places, they do a good job without all the hype.

As someone else mentioned go and see for yourself, make an appointment and check them all out. Just make sure you can sort out the sales talk from the complete truth.

[otamaroa]

Its worth applying with CTC just for the experience of the application process. Very similar to what you might expect later on in your career with aptitude tests, maths/english tests, group exercises, interview and sim checks. Am currently training with CTC and think the flight training is excellent. Although the ground school could do with some work however I've got through to the ATPL's with no problems so far.

[Konev]

head to the south island is my advice.

[standardbrief]

a young friend of mine was looking at bay flight, is it any good? is phil hooker still cfi which airline is he with now?

and the million dollar question do any of these guys and girls from bayflight end up with airline jobs?

cheers

[coconut99]

I attended Ardmore back in the mid-ninties for ME training after completing my CPL elsewhere overseas. My original school went through a long dry patch of having no ME aircraft available, so rather than twiddle our thumbs a few of us packed ship and moved to NZ to finish up. Back then Ardmore seemed to be a well respected school with only minor problems, certainly a lot better than my original which lacked any organisation at all. From what it seems, Ardmore has gone down hill very fast over the years which is a shame really. Ardmore was once considered to be a top notch school in NZ.

On the subject of CTC, I see that the European cadets get put into carriers back in europe...what about their New Zealand classmates? Are all of them going into eagle? Where have the ended up?

Coco

[FuturePilot79]

Gone downhill in which ways?

[Kiwi172]

I guess it depends where you want to go with your career once you have your inital training out of the way. I know instructors at all of the organisations that have been mentioned here so far, each place has its pros and cons. One thing that you need to think about is the type of equipment that you are trained on. If you want to get into multi engined flying before going into the regionals or other outfits chances are that you will be xposed to conventional twins with steam powered gauges. If you have done all of your training on G1000s and twins missing enough levers :ugh:,you may find it difficult to find an operator to take you on. PM me if you want a bit more clarification

[Wombat35]

Now I don't work at AFS, however I instruct around those guys and gals on a regular basis...

Overall they do a good job and I could think of a lot worse places to go, so I think the knockers are a bit harsh. They have decent well looked after mostly new ish 172's (4 or so with the G1000) and the more I get to know the instructors the more I like them.

Good luck!

Wombat

[Cypher]

If you want to get into multi engined flying before going into the regionals or other outfits chances are that you will be xposed to conventional twins with steam powered gauges.

That is very true. This isn't just some throwaway point. There are some pretty big implications later on in your career with glass vs steam driven.

Under the NZ CAA Advisory Circular Pt 61 - Instrument Ratings, It states that a instrument renewal done in a "Technically Enhanced Aircraft" is not good for anything else other than a "Technically Enhanced Aircraft" (TEA).

In other words, if you do your renewal (dunno about initial issue) in a glass flight deck aircraft like a DA42, there lies the possibility that you won't be able to fly other aircraft unless they're glass cockpit under IFR rules..

(The CAA in their infinite wisdom have not clearly defined a TEA. Infact the term only appears in a AC and NOT in the rules, so I'm still at a bit of a loss at how this has become a 'law')

Last time I looked, a B1900 D isn't a Technically Enhanced Aircraft... (though some probably think it is... flak jacket ON) neither are most of the light twin fleet at the likes of FlyMySky, Great Barrier Airlines or Sunair.

At GBA you're likely to be contending with a good ole Islander, with a Artificial Horizon that was probably fitted to the Wright Flyer, a simple directional indicator that precesses wildly everytime you move the wings past 5 degrees of bank, a simple VOR indicator that Amelia Earhart probably used, and a ADF indicator that points it's way to the nearest thunderstorm. The only remotely electronic display onboard your aircraft being the cellphone in your pocket..

Tell me how a Garmin 1000 (love them how I do though) is going to prepare you for that.

Yes you could go through and do everything on the Garmin 1000 then try and convert back later on.. but would you rather go steam driven then glass first... rather than glass back to steam driven.

I used to work for CTC. Yes it has all the bells and whistles.. it has some good experience in the instructor ranks as well. Some of the more senior people have been instructors for a long time. (a long time being over 5 years)
They will teach you along the lines of an airline which is great if your a UK cadet with a EasyJet job waiting for you back at home. They're not going to prepare you for your first twin job flying in a piston with steam driven gauges at night alone just below the freezing level. But if the past is anything to go by, they have placed their NZ cadets into Eagle before, direct.
Just go ask a guy called "Bank Angle"...

Ardmore I'm not sure would be any better. Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near Ardmore. There are some nice people there... but the w@nkers outweigh the good bstards... IMHO...

I have some other ideas of where to train.. just PM me for ideas...

[ZK-NSN]

Ardmore have a pretty average reputation (easily searched on pprune.) I have heard of people taking 6 months just to do a MEIR due to a shortage of Aircraft. CTC sound like a very good outfit, but I dont think they are particually in touch with what a pilot would need to operate commercially in NZ, outside of their organisation (IE the big bad world)

If you want to get industry relative training go elsewhere. Its much cheaper, much quicker and generally has better job prospects at the end. New Plymouth aeroclub and other companies that have a commercial operation attached are good places to start.

[Massey1Bravo]

Take a look at Bay Flight Tauranga or Waikato Aero Club, both have good experienced CFI's and staff and they can do the student loan thing if you need that.

Are you sure? AFAIK the govt stopped giving out loans years ago outside the big school degree/diploma thing. It's certainly not available at where I am. (North Shore)

[Cloud Cutter]

That's partly right Massey1B, you do need to enrol in a diploma course, but Waikato Aero Club and Bay Flight both offer these (along with many others), so they are definitely options if you require a student loan, and both have been running full-time, fully-funded courses for some years.

FuturePilot, I can tell you from personal experience, both outfits in Hamilton are good at what they do - just keep in mind that you're very unlikely to walk straight into an airline here in NZ (barring a few CTC cadets that may get into Eagle), so with that in mind, the aero club would probibly stand you in better stead to enter the GA environment. CTC are focussed on training pilots to go straight from a light aircraft into a jet airline environment, which will probibly not be all that relevant to you.

I don't believe Ardmore Flying School deserves all of the negative comments posted here, but they do tend to promise more than they can deliver at times. Not all bad though, just make sure you look past all the hype.

Good luck with your decision, don't put too much weight in everything you read here, particularly some of the more extreme views from people who are incapable of objective debate. Cheers ;)

[DeathStar-Alpha]

I'd do it NMIT thats a loan that'l get you through with a diploma and CPL MEIR. That's all you need isn't it?

And it can be done at the smaller (not CTC or FS size) flight schools which can be better in a more one on one pilot-instructor basis. Compared to the bigger ones where you're constantly changing instructors and more time is spent reflying lessons so your new instructor knows where you're up to and what your capabilities are. Ultimately costing you extra $$$

DStar

[HardCorePawn]

As others have indicated, your (student loan) options are basically:

1. Aero Club and NMIT diploma course (ie. Waikato, BayFlight etc.)
2. "Big" Flying School (CTC, Massey, AFS etc.)

There are pro's and con's to both... and much like the Mac vs. PC, Ford vs. Holden, Coke vs. Pepsi type debates, there are people with very strong views on both sides.

Just remember, opinions are like arseholes... everyone has one! :oh:

The best thing you can do, is actually front up and visit the places in questions... talk to current students if possible... get an idea of how the place operates and if it fits your situation.

At the end of the day, even though it is on student loan, it is your money (the government will eventually get its pound of flesh)... so spend it like you actually had to earn it in the first place!

[Konev]

on the subject of class vs steamgauge training, lets look at the reality of it all.

no employer is going to hire a new guy right out of flightschool and throw him into a nice flash plane fitted with a G1000, your first job plane will be a old airframe with a panel sporting a number of 'US' stickers, because hey, everyone starts at the bottom of the ****heap, where the **** planes reside because those companies cannot afford to put in that much money when something that has worked since the 30s does the same job.

steam gauge also teaches you to use that thing called a map, which has no batteries, no suction and is not prone to making young boys press all the fancy buttons to make the pretty lights flash when they should be looking outside for other planes pretty lights.

in effect, steamgauge teaches skills that glass wont.

ignore all the schools that throw out testimonials like 'i stepped out of massey and into a 747 with me DA42 rating' because to put it simply, its bull**** for 99.6% of new pilots.

go for the school which has good links with local companies, the kind of companies that take people out of that school. stewart island flights is a brilliant example.

they will recruit an instructor or even a good CPL from southern wings over a outsider as the SW pilot knows the area, stewart island and local procedures. the pilots from that company then tend to end up in eagle or air nelson with twin and IFR time to boot.

Queenstown aero club supplies the Queenstown horde with pilots is another brilliant example.

there will be similar arrangments all over the country, go door knocking (not ringing) and ask them, it doesnt hurt to ask.



*disclaimer: testimoniol not fact but it gets the point across