Right helicopter for a yacht

[Boelkow]

Hi helicopter pilots,

I would need your professional opinion. We are looking for a helicopter to be based on a private yacht. I was a helicopter pilot some years ago, but have never landed on a yacht, but flown helicopters with skids, as well with landing wheels. For me it makes more sense to have wheels because of smother touchdown while the yacht is moving up and down. The choppers we want to take a closer look are the AS365 and the Agusta Grand.
What do you think.
Boelkow

[spencer17]

I would prefer skids plus a net on the deck for landing on a yacht.
Even in relative rough conditions :E between 40° and 65° in the south Atlantic I felt safe and landings were not to hard (BO 105).
But there are probably some guy's out there having experience on both skids and wheels.

[Phrogman]

Matching the correct helo to a yacht has lots of variables as I am sure you are becoming aware of. I have flown both the 365 and 109E to ship decks and can tell you the pros and cons of each off line, but the thing about Yachts is that helidecks tend to be an after thought in designing, and even if your vessel does have the deck, is there sufficient load bearing ability and rotor clearance to do the ops safely. You are considering some larger birds (relatively) for this endeavor, so I hope those two variables are well accounted for. How big is the vessel and can you provide a picture of the intended helideck?

[MRP12]

How big is your yacht as that is a major factor is chosing what type to use?

MRP12

[FFF]

Do you already have a helideck or are you looking to refit one?
If you already have one, what helicopter was it designed for?
If it doesn't already have one you may be better of looking at buying a yacht with one as a refit project is difficult, expensive (even for a yacht) and tends to lead to having to deal with a number of compromises between safety and aesthetics.

[ReverseFlight]

I think the greatest danger in deck landings is LTE. If I had a choice, I would eliminate it with a Kamov 27/28/32 series. They're real ugly but nothing compares in its class.

[griffothefog]

I won't go down the Iv'e done this and I....Blah, blah,

Go wheels with a net and you will almost certainly eliminate the Greenpeace Enstrom sort of incidents :eek:.....

But safety might not be first consideration when it comes to leggy brunettes snapping their heels on the webbing, or even worse tripping and going arse over tit when they make the "glamour entrance" :E

[Boelkow]

I haven´t seen the vessel yet, since it is still in production. It will definitely have a deck and the boat will measure araund 90yards/270ft.
Boelkow

[jemax]

Out of interest there are some visuals and advice here.

Helideck Certification Agency - Home2 (http://www.helidecks.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=263)

[Heli-phile]

I would suggest:
Something with 2 engines.
Something with relatively salt tolerant fuselage/components.
Something with world wide support.
Something with high tail rotor or a fenestrom.
Something with good maintenance schedules I.E. 100hr+ intervals
Make sure you have provision for reliable and 'beefy' ground power.
Good protection for machine when she is lashed to the heaving deck i.e. dome/bubble/extending canopy
Skids are more stable than wheels (especially castoring types)

So sounds like a EC135/145 or maybe a Agusta grand (if your likely itinary wont have issues with 50hr inspection interval!!!)

When would you like me to start??:ok:

[Bertie Thruster]

Something without a combining gearbox,with no tail rotor and with a mainly composite airframe?

[9Aplus]

My first question can be what is available budget?
Than do you intent to operate only in nice and sunny weather
or your yacht is explorer type, so night, foggy or even IMC can
be considered...
If Agusta than Koala 119Ke, with skids, no brakes on Grand and
Power 109 after engines off, so you may chase helicopter arround
or over deck.
GL :ok:

[Mama Mangrove]

Even on such a small vessel, you should be able to operate an AW139 which has really good single engine power and the VIP version can have a nice roomy 6 place cabin with all the VIP trimmings. If you really want to make a statement, have room for a great VIP interior and pick up your guests from a long way out, then the S92 would be the best choice - but maybe that would cost more than the yacht :E

[perfrej]

Sounds like the one in my book...

As for landing on vesselt with skids and net... I wouldn't want to do that. In fact, when we land regularly on russian ice-breakers we ask them to remove the nets (they want them to avoid the wheels of the MI8 from rolling around). Imagine a slight back-slip when lifting off with a squirrel - spurs on the skids. Tangled in and getting stuck. Ouch!

[FFF]

A 270' yacht is a good size to support a helicopter, and even a "white" yacht style design should be able to aesthetically integrate a private (ie. not to commercial standard) helideck for a A109 Grand, but a Dauphin may be pushing it a bit (although expedition style yacht tend to be able to dedicate more space to such things as helidecks, so if it is that sort of design it may work)
The shipyard/designer will be building the yacht with the largest helicopter intended in mind - so it would be a good idea to find that out.
Both the helicopters that you have mentioned have pros and cons - as do all helicopters. Which one is right for the yacht is only part of the question, as you should think about all the other aspects of the helicopters use. So really the question is - which helicopter is the best for the owner, and will that integrate well with the yacht?

[MajorLemond]

remember if your goin to have a party that you`ll need something to transport the people to your yacht so they can get smashed so an a109 is a little small in that regard.... you need to think big:

These things can be bought for a song and parts are readily available on ebay and in the helicopter trading post. Another sweetener to the deal is that they usually are sold with the seven drunken pilots needed to fly it.
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/helicopters/size/v12_01.jpg

[EN48]

then the S92 would be the best choice - but maybe that would cost more than the yacht


With a 270ft boat, I doubt that budget will be an issue. I have been told that such a yacht could have a price tag in the $1mm to $2mm PER FOOT range. If so, $270mm to $540mm vs an S92 at, what, $22mm? A mere accessory.;)

[kmax]

AS 365 N3 perfect for decklandings and very good Off shore flying, stable in rough conditions.
Maybe not the best VIP cabin (low ceiling)

[js0987]

Bell 214ST. Lots of room, lots of power, good speed and range and right now you can find them CHEAP.

[RVDT]

Hmmm. Hands up who has actually ever landed/operated from/to a yacht.

[anti-talk]

We put our A109S onto a 170ft Yacht regularly.
Bit tight but doable - only when moored though, way too tight to land on when under way.

[rotorbrent]

It is more of a issue of finding the right yacht for the helicopter you intend to operate. Your yacht will have some design limits as to weight on the helipad , distance to tail rotor, main rotor obstructions. Pitch, Roll and Heave limits of the respected rotor system to allow takeoffs, landings. Look to port of calls, availability of parts, maintenance.

Just about every sort of helicopter has been on some boat at one time or another. Give yourself plenty of room to obstructions. Plenty of power available as in operating below HOGE weights. Either aircraft will work fine given the room to land.

[chopper2004]

Have you contacted Nigel Watson from Heliriviera? Check out that website. They're the best folks to ask about what a/c to buy and to what specs you want.

[copterdr76]

Maintained/operated an S76A+ from a 260ft yachet for a few years.