Purchasing Used Helicopter(s) - Considerations

[The Guardian]

For all you Rotor Aviation professionals, I have some questions regarding purchasing a used helicopter:

1. Total Time on Airframe (TTAF) How many hours are too many? Is a question like this too general? Looking through the used market of various types it looks like there can be aircraft out there with almost 20K hours on it that look better than aircraft with 5K on them. Obviously component times remaining is a huge factor in cost, maintenance, etc. But would a very high TTAF scare you away if the aircraft was thoroughly maintained, up on all inspections, etc. ? (Obviously not talking about Robinson's, that would be like 9 rebuilds!) Also, is there a legal limit to TTAF where the aircraft has to be retired no matter what?

2. Online pricing information for parts and labor, etc. Does anyone know a good source? As this is currently purely academic for me as I try to gain a deeper understanding of the economics of rotorcraft aviation I'm loathe to call up businesses and waste their time with pricing questions that will not result in a sale. But I'd love to find out how much those tail rotors are, epicyclic gears, engine modules, etc.

3. Insurance? Assuming a safe and competent pilot? What is a good yearly budget figure as a percentage? It seems like I've come across figures ranging from 3% of the value all the way up to 10%... must be a more accurate figure out there? Also does anyone price by the hour instead of yearly? Might be a more accurate way to measure risk?

As I said, this is currently purely academic right now but would love any professional thoughts and insights.

Thanks.

[What Limits]

Conklin & de Decker will give you all the numbers you need.

Buying a used helicopter has many of the same issues as buying a used car, may look good, dog underneath. You could also get a bargain.

Why not buy a Robinson after 9 overhauls, each time you get almost a new helicopter!

TTAF may be deceptive, consider the number of starts / cycles / landings / sectors. May be a better indication of potential stress in the airframe. Also consider previous owners and what that aircraft has been used for.

Ultimately due diligence should reveal potential problems.

Good luck with that!

[206 jock]

Bell publish their list price online.

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/support/sparesPrices/priceBook_04-206-407_2008.pdf

Experience tells me that you can get about 12%-13% discount if you work hard and buy a lot of bits.

[The Guardian]

Thanks for the Bell price list link, I found that MD also publishes part prices but naturally my most interest is in Eurocopter... searches just seem to turn up random parts on supplier websites.... any more info that anyone would like to contribute is much appreciated...

[md 600 driver]

all eurocopter and turbomecca prices are secret especialy parts i think they assess you to see how much you will pay then charge accordingley i have been trying for years to get a up to date gazelle price list

UNLESS SOMEONE KNOWS DIFFERENT

[widgeon]

The reason that EC do not post prices to the public is there are ( at least there used to be) significant price differences in the different currency regions . At certain times it was cheaper for a UK operator to buy a starflex in the US even with the shipping charges

[Encyclo]

One important thing :eek: make sure the aircraft has not been classified as "Destroyed" by the OEM or the airworthiness agency :ugh:

[Great View]

Make sure there are no liens against the aircraft, its been my experience that the seller will try and sneak it by, and will look really surprised when you tell him he hasn't paid that mechanic for the annual he did last year.
I don't know of any insurance company that will let you pay by the hour, if you find one.....tell everyone! What you pay is all depending on what kind of operation you do I believe. Dealing with insurance is the worst part of aviation in my opinion.

[EN48]

What you pay is all depending on what kind of operation you do I believe


Pilot experience and make/model claims history will be a factor as well on insurance. The range you cite (4% to 10% of insured value) seems to be mostly in the zone; could go well below 4% for a very well qualified pilot doing low risk work in a "friendly" helicopter, IMO.