Jet* NZ Interview.

[oxymoron]

Hi folks, Interviewing with Jet* NZ shortly. I know the basic format of interview (HR and Line Pilot), 733/4 sim session and planning exersice, but would be greatful for any detail. Have flown glass cockpit turbofans globally for last 20 years, all long haul, but want to be able to stay in NZ and fly domestic for a while (kids now at an age where having dad at home more in the evenings would be very benefical). I have read many posts on the implications for the industry Jet* represents, but I need a job, and they are all that is happening here at the moment. If at all possible can I just have any info. on the day of the interview please?

Thanks. Oxy.

[jack red]

from what i've heard about jetstar NZ and their crappy conditions, you won't need any interview info.......just turn up and you'll get the job you have always dreamed of...........:mad:

[blow.n.gasket]

That dream would most certainly have to be of a Faustian nature, wouldn't it?:bored:

[fourholes]

Walk in, they check you have a pulse, you bend over. End of interview.

[Cypher]

well.. those responses were entirely predictable.....

Can't you people come up with some better material than that.....:rolleyes:

[billyt]

I think Cypher it must be the school holidays.

[Pole Smoker]

"Walk in, they check you have a pulse, you bend over. End of interview."

lol, take extra cash for LUBE.

:{

[Beeroclock]

Just tell them your willing to work for little or nothing and the jobs yours!! They will then skip the sim and save more money...

[Cypher]

I'm surprised the pineapple hasn't made an appearance yet....:rolleyes:

[fourholes]

I did not mean to sound so cynical (yeah, ok, I did mean to) BUT If you read that post again, that pretty much is what is gonna happen. J* are looking for gimps that will accept utter bull#$%^ as conditions and pay. So if you go in there and accept that, what are you?

[oxymoron]

Feeding the family until a better opportunity offers itself. Or are you offering to contribute to my family's coffers to avoid me disgracing the profession? Thanks to those who answered my request. You help is gratefully recieved.

Regards,
oxymoron.

[framer]

The easier life gets the more idealistic humans become.It's a luxury.
Some people will tell you they'd never hurt an animal.....easy to say when you're well fed and living in the western world. You could watch the same people kill an animal with their bare hands if they were hungry....I mean properly hungry.
Do what you have to do Oxymoron, these guys won't be around to help if your bills start stacking up and kids clothes start getting holes in them.
Framer

[indigo duck]

Oxymoron - before you attend any interview, you may want to contact NZALPA and find out what is really going on .....

Notice released from NZALPA to pilots :

Breach of the Employment Relations Act?

On Wednesday 29 April, NZALPA lodged proceedings in the Employment Relations Authority claiming that the QANTAS Group's decision to close its Christchurch Jetconnect base has breached statutory obligations under the Employment Relations Act 2000 and has also breached contractual obligations under the Jetconnect Collective Employment Agreement. Included in the proceedings is an application to stop the closure of the Christchurch base until the Authority can determine whether the breaches claimed did occur. NZALPA, having unsuccessfully tried to negotiate a sensible arrangement with Jetconnect/Jetstar since the February 17 announcement of Jetstar NZ commencing domestic operations in New Zealand and the Christchurch base closure for Jet connect pilots, has reluctantly been compelled to commence these proceedings.


Remedies we seek include;


· An injunction restraining Jetconnect from closing its Christchurch base

· A determination that Jetconnect has breached its good faith obligations by failing to consult with NZALPA and NZALPA's affected pilot members over the closure of its Christchurch base (and consequent transfer of that base to Auckland), and/or the change from domestic (New Zealand) operations to trans-Tasman operations.

· A determination that Jetconnect, being in breach of both its pilots Collective Employment Agreement (CEA) and also the Employment Relations Act (ERA) is liable to penalties.

· A determination that QANTAS and Jetstar NZ has incited, instigated, aided or abetted Jetconnect's breach or breaches of the Act and the Jet Connect pilots CEA and is accordingly liable to a penalties.


NZALPA's Principal Officers, Industrial Sub-Committee, Jetconnect Pilots Council and Board of Management made the decision to commence these proceedings because Jetconnect could/would not consider sensible solutions proposed by NZALPA as QANTAS had made the decision and it was out of Jetconnect's hands.



What is going on?


· QANTAS has determined to transfer its New Zealand domestic flying from Jetconnect to Jetstar.

· Our Jetconnect members are only able to apply for positions in Jetstar NZ in the same manner as any other applicant.

· Members, currently based in Christchurch, are being required to either move or commute at their own cost (after 90 days) while newly employed Jetstar NZ pilot's takeover their work in Christchurch.

· Jetconnect (QANTAS) have advised that should any member not accept the option of transfer or commute at their own cost, then "such a person's employment would end in due course, in accordance with the CEA"

· We have written to the Jetstar NZ representatives and Jetconnect in an attempt to encourage them to deal meaningfully with this issue - their replies indicate to us that the decision to restructure the New Zealand operations has been made by QANTAS in Australia and that this decision and its implications for staff was beyond their control.

· Jetstar NZ is offering individual employment agreements with terms and conditions below the industry standard.

· Given the National Party's pre election campaign included an interest in pay parity with Australia, we have separately written to the Prime Minister to appraise him of our concerns.

· NZALPA believes that the domestic flying planned to be carried out by Jetstar NZ is the work of our Jetconnect members and that Jetstar NZ is taking advantage of New Zealand Employment laws and aviation legislation to establish an operation in New Zealand offering less than industry standard pilot employment conditions to the detriment of New Zealand and Australian pilots.

· Our members face uncertainty as the QANTAS Group position themselves to take best advantage of New Zealand's open skies policies and the advantages they can secure in operating out of a base in New Zealand by offering greenfields Individual Employment Agreements.


NZALPA is opposed to this move by QANTAS to transfer the work of its employees. They have determined to disregard the provisions of both the Employment Relations Act and the Jetconnect pilots Collective Employment Agreement while at the same time introduce an Individual Employment Agreement containing sub standard terms and conditions of employment.

NZALPA will do everything in its power to constructively address this attack on our Jetconnect members and employment conditions in New Zealand.

I recommend you find out all the facts before you commit yourself (and put one of the guys at JetConnect - who probably has a family as well - out of a job).

[propaganda]

Duck - The truth of the matter is Jetconnect is not Jetstar and never will be. These crews operating from CHC fly different airframes for different airlines, so why would JS give preference to these pilots. I also think you are trying to suggest that pilots apply for JS are somehow doing something wrong. I would also point out that little or no benefit can be made by contacting NZALPA, you would not receive a balanced view.

If you need a job Oxy go for it.

[Beeroclock]

As long as people take these jobs they will continue to offer less and less..Whilst they get people applying and accepting they will continue to think they are paying too much!!

Look at those cruise FO positions with V..GA pays more and if you really need the money apply for a position in the cabin instead as it pays more again..I never thought i would see the day cabin crew earn more then the guys/gals driving the thing and why is that?? Cause too many people would sell there mothers to get on the big shiny jet..

[indigo duck]

The point that needs to be made here is that we never seem to learn from history. When economic times start getting tough, pilots are prepared to accept lower conditions and pay - without giving a second thought to others who may end up being displaced because of their actions. This is the sort of thing these "budget" airlines feed on.

Generally speaking, once we achieve the position we want, we complain and moan about how bad we have got it.

Our beloved Prime Minister is quoted as saying ".... I would like to see pay parity between the New Zealand and Australian workforce ....."

How can we achieve that if people are prepared to accpet the first (and lowest offer) that is put on the table???

[ZK-NSN]

These crews operating from CHC fly different airframes for different airlines, so why would JS give preference to these pilots.

They are owned by the same parent company, whats the :mad:ing difference? You can spout off all this brand crap-ola but at the end of the day its all QANTAS, plain and simple.

No different in principal to what is happening at other industries, like telecom moving call centres to the India, why? Because its cheaper labour, meaning more profits. who gets shafted? The employee's, In this case though there is the added advantage of the profits going overseas.

I would also point out that little or no benefit can be made by contacting NZALPA, you would not receive a balanced view.

Yeah, and Qantas will give you a honest and non biased opinion? Give your brain a chance dude.
ALPA are doing their job, looking after their members, its obvious Qantas doesnt give a :mad:.

[NoN1]

I understand some people want to stay in NZ, and want to do what's best for their family. Your family won't thank you when your eyeballs are hanging out and you have no time or energy left for them on an almost constant basis throughout the year. Talk to as many guys as you can already flying 320's and 737's in NZ for Australian companies about this.

There is a reason PB FA's and Pilots boycott the Chrismas social event, and hold there own the day before. That has been going on for years. It speaks volumes when this segment of the workforce turns down free drinks!

The least anyone can do is sit on their hands until the ALPA court case is resolved. There is no hurry, Jetstar will always have a steady turnover of pilots, just like PB has done.

Piling debt upon your family, to go to a LCC is a huge decision, I wish there was a way for guys in your position to go forward in time just for a while, to appreciate what a difference it will make, materially and emotionally.

Good luck.

[blacksmoke]

How come NZALPA (read air nz alpa) are going on about "below industry standard conditionS". Jetstar are now paying more than both Pacblue and Jitconnect !!
Why should the jetconnect pilots get anything special from Jetstar anyway, as said ealier, they are different airlines !!!!

[Fruet Mich]

Ah don't think so fella, looks good on paper, but I just run the figures for Jetstar take home per fortnight and it doesn't fair too well, especially for FO's.

Jetstar Capt will work 85hrs a month to earn roughly what a Jetconnect Capt will working 65. If a Jetconnect Capt works 85 credit hrs, he or she will take home nearly $1000 more a fortnight.

Jetstar FO working 85 hours will take home about $100 less per fortnight than a current Jetconnect FO working 65 hours. If a Jetconnect FO works 85 credit hrs, he or she will take home an extra $800 per fortnight.

It's called DTA, something Jetstar lacks. Incentive pay is roughly 40% below Jetconnects.

Jetconnect also get a guaranteed retention bonus, plus a yearly pilot bonus that may be paid at the companys discretion.

Jetstar have a pilot bonus at the sole discretion of the company. Which in these times I'd bet my left testie they won't be oblidged to pay.

If you want the figures, I'll gladly post them. I do warn you tho, it paints a pritty grizzly picture.

2 percent super, pay for your own jepps and medical. Now thats cheaky Jetstar!! I thought Jetconnect was the bottom of the heap when it comes to T&C's!!

[pigdriver]

NOT CORRECT!!! The bonus is now guaranteed, 20k for the first year,then 15k plus a company performance bonus for the following years( similar to jitconnect I believe??) and most other conditions are very similar to the mainland conditions, ( ie pay for jepps and medicals, but uniforms, carpark etc all provided.)Company still pays super, but the silly kiwi one( was told only 1 or 2% )
I believe the base pay is now higher then jetconnect and pacblues.
The company has re done the contract as many like fruet mich have brought to the attention of the company the conditions of the bonus payouts. They are also paying for the move to new zealand for the guys coming across from J* Aust for 12 -18mths or so initially.

[Cypher]

There is a reason PB FA's and Pilots boycott the Chrismas social event, and hold there own the day before. That has been going on for years. It speaks volumes when this segment of the workforce turns down free drinks!

It's often because many of us are working during the Christmas function, or we're more comfortable siting around a BBQ and have a few quiet ones rather than getting tarted up and headin into town.... :)

Yeah.. some of us are gettin old....

Yes.. PB has it's problems too

[Cpt Link Hog]

If I were in Jetconnect the Alarm bells would be ringing, The Death star has moved well into firing range of Jetconnect, I posted somthing a while ago re the ChCh base heads up for the guys and was shot down now look.

Will Qantas run the Tasman yes but it will be with Mainline crew overnighting why do you need an entire base to do that?

Qantas has defered 738 orders so not shure where JC are getting there NG's from? You can just here it now due to increased compartion global down turn, best fleet use Bla bla...QF will work the Tasman along side JetStar.... BOOM! bases closed..

Dam the old JC 73 "parked up" in ch gotta be of some concern jump that sinking ship lads!

[radar vectored]

Cpt

QF's defered 738s were scheduled for delivery next year. The first of JC's 800s will in NZ in August. Having said that, that JC will still be around once Jet* is accepted by the punters is anybodies guess!

[cunninglinguist]

I never thought i would see the day cabin crew earn more then the guys/gals driving the thing

DRW based Nat Joke hosties where getting more than F/Os 12 years ago, probably worse now that NJS have B scale, so V Oz not the pioneers :hmm:

[Fruet Mich]

Pig Driver, is that gauranteed bonus for Capt's and FO's? I have the contract dated Jan 2009 and nothing mentioned? Have you got a new contract?

The Jetconnect bonus is a guaranteed retention bonus and is written as part of the CEA.

Isn't the Jetstar bonus still a company performance bonus and therefore subject to the current aviation environment?

Capt's salarys are very similar if the Jetstar Capt does 85 hrs compared to Jetconnect Capt's doing 65hrs. If the Jetconnect Capt does 65hrs, he or she will earn about $30 less per week. If Jetconnect Capt does 85hrs he or she will earn $600 more per week.

85hrs per month is not guaranteed! It's what management are putting on paper to make the contract look attractive. It's not!

Jetconnect Capt guarateed retention bonus is 1st yr $15k, 2nd yr $18.7k and 3rd year 22k. It increases not decreases.

Becareful with what is put in front of you! Still a much better contract at Jetconnect than Jetstar with regards to remuneration.

About 20% better off at Jetconnect per week as FO doing 65hrs as opposed to 85hrs. If a Jetconnect FO does 85hrs, he or she will take home $500 more per week.

Even with the Jetstars guaranteed bonus, Jetconnect get bonus, DTA and the incentive is about 30% more per hour over 65hrs for Capt's, and 40% more per hr over 65 for FO's.

These are the facts. Remember, Jetconnect has historically been the worst paying jet job in Australasia. Now we have a new kid on the block. Where does it end? Have a wee look on the Jetstar Australia website at the terms and conditions. Why sooo different? Becareful Aus crew, they'll close bases as they have in Adelaide and put you on NZ contracts. Ouch!

I'm sure all you guys belong to a union and can obtain the contracts yourselves through ALPA to do the math.

Cheers

[blacksmoke]

Bonus is guaranteed for both capt and f/o's, although the amounts are less for the f/o's. 20k for capts, and 10k for the f/o's. Contract was ammended around April.
Have heard they have quite a few nz f/o's coming from other jobs ( eagle, air nelson etc) but as they do not have ratings yet they will be looking for short term contract f/o's to fill the gap until these guys/gals are checked to line.
I think this is similar to what "pigdriver" has said in previous posts.

[Fruet Mich]

Cheers for that. I also heard that the new bonus will go towards paying for your type rating if you're not rated. Plus they bond you for 2 years.

Not good with the new 3 month probation period thats just been bought into the New Zealand employment act. Could hurt forking out all that cash if you get put off and have to pay it back?

Each to their own.

[pigdriver]

J* bonus doesnt decrease, still guaranteed at 20k for capts etc every year and 10k for f/o's. Base salary is based on 65 hrs not 85 as mentioned else where. Flying is tasman and domestic, so can plan on 75 hrs per month, and contract was ammended a month or so ago.

[Fruet Mich]

Sweet cheers, I've just re jigged the figures based on what you have said and based on Jetstar bonus guaranteed yearly at $20k.

Jetconnect will earn about the same as Jetstar Capt's doing 65hrs at Jetconnect as opposed to 75 at Jetstar.

Jetconnect FO's will earn 15% more than Jetstar FO's. Thats if Jetstar do 75 and Jetconnect do 65. Thats with all the incentive and bonuses included that you have just outlined.

If Jetconnect pilots do 75 hrs a month, the difference between the two weekly wages becomes hugely in favour of Jetconnect.

Jetconnect get their MBF $1100, medical $350 and jeppersons $??? paid for. So that could chew into the Jetstar weekly wage.

As I said, Jetconnect is at the bottom of the food chain with regards to remuneration. Now a profitable Qantas owned company will pay less.

Cheers

[Condition lever]

Pigdriver,

The figures touted by Jetstar to try and sell this contract were based on a rate of effort of 85 hours per month.

This is unachievable on the routes anticipated to be conducted by Jetstar NZ. You guys need to have a good think about that fact.

Anther fact is that the contract was increased in April due to the lack of interest. Imagine what will happen if they don't get the numbers required in this latest substandard contract. Well guess what - they will up the contract again.

[Fruet Mich]

Exactly, people are so keen to fly a big shinny jet that they subsidise their any chance, and any others behind them, to earn a fair wage for their past years of hard work, WTF? Crazy!!

Suddenly the worst paid jet job in Australasia "Jetconnect and Pac Blue" look like a bloody good option.

Jetstar can tout their great "new" terms and conditions, they'll tell you what you need to hear but in reality it's still a long way off the mark. It's still an absolute insult to most pilots intelligence, but still, us so called "intelligent" pilots take the bait and continue to bastardise what was a good industry. We're a great breed!!

This contract will continue to get better for Captains as they will not find enough experienced guys to work for that shyte. On the other hand we might see a first, with FO's salarys becoming maybe 40% of a Captains. Why, because there are always going to be young boys and girls looking for their lucky break to fly a jet. Jetstar management know we will **** all over each other to get ahead!!

Whats the answer? Get together and say no! Otherwise we will literally earn a bus drivers wage and we in NZ will be the laughing stock of all other aviation nations and of all professions. We're already are I guess, hense the contract offer from Jetstar?

Jetstar, I can't wait for the industry to take off again and leave you with your pants down, I'll and most others will laugh our tits off!

[Bombay]

Fruet Mich: Couldn't agree more. We've got to collectively say no. It's absolute BS. Why would anyone sell their soul just to fly something with swept wings?

Mad...and stupid. I used to bang on and on about paying for type ratings when it first came about. Now the industry (us!) has got used to it and we don't talk about it any more. But paying for medicals and charts? WTF?

As if the low pay wasn't bad enough already but all these "incidental" costs? On top of a huge debt for a type rating?

Here's an idea. Go to a properly qualified investment advisor and put the numbers across the table. Tell them you're going to shell out the thick end of $50k which you'll also pay interest on, then you'll sit in a global recession working for a new LCC that doesn't have either high yields or anything resembling a market share. It's a bad deal. Walk away.

[blacksmoke]

Pacblue still doesnt look, nor will it ever look like a good job !!! Lets remember they were the ones who started all this rot in the first place!!!!
Have heard two of the J* NZ capts going are both from pacblue.

[Normasars]

While ever there is GA, there will be no shortage of applicants for these crappy jobs. QF are laughing at all of us; we are like seagulls fighting over a potato chip at the beach.

ZK-NSN is 100% correct. It is all one company as is QLINK/EAA/SSA as WAS SAA. Some of us have been under the QF banner for 20 PLUS :mad: years and we are still getting screwed ie SAA; closure if bases with families in schools and wives at work etc. QF having been doing for years and thay are not going to stop, especially now as things really start to tighten up. It's all about "who is going to provide the cheapest labour costs."

No company can control the price of crude; nav charges,medicals;Jepps yada yada yada.

THE ONLY THING THAT ANY OF THESE COMPANIES HAVE CONTROL OVER ARE LABOUR COSTS. THE SOONER ALL OF YOU REALISE THAT THE BETTER OFF WE ALL WILL BE.:ugh:

Its a game people. And we will always come last whilst this is the collective rationale out there


End of Rant

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

You kiwis have short memories;

If you want to know who started the great plunge from the cliff-of-plenty, then look no further than the start-up of FreedomAir! Barely $100K NZ (so about $2.50 in any other country :ooh:) for Captains.

So don't be bleating about the stupidity of pilots who choose to increase their income by coming to JQ (or PacBlue or Jetconnect) from whatever lower paid GA/regional job they're currently at. And some of them will be doing it for the very wise reason of increasing their experience/exposure level so that they can be more employable down the road.

In this modern age, the choice between B734 v. A320 hours is a no-brainer.

Oh, and BTW, I've been able to sneak a peak at some sample rosters for the NZ operation; they are predicated on pilots flying the quoted 85 hours each month. The low cost model is based on high pilot utilisation!

Still and all, if it's all about the money and no other considerations matter, then you're in the wrong part of the world for starters and you don't even know it! :confused:

[pigdriver]

Well said Rad alt alive !!
I couldnt agree more. I reckin most of the rubbish we are reading on here is from a few jitconnect guys who are worried about the new player on the team..And lets not forget what they were all happy to work for when it started !!!!!

[Fruet Mich]

Yeah we're in the wrong part of the world! I can't wait to head up to work in the sand! Not.

We're in the right part of the world. And always will be.

I think what we are all trying to say here is NO! Of course people are going to want to get ahead in their respective profession. But lets not do it at the expense of our industry. If we hold out we will be paid better.

So what you are trying to say is that a guy flying an A320 in NZ should start on $65000 because it's good for him to get ahead so he can move on to better things? Good help the industry, thats exactly how it's come to this. If it's good for the goose it's good for the ganda.

As I've said before, currently the Aus Jetstar pilots are being paid ok. Wait till they make your positions redundant and send you to the NZ base and you take a huge pay cut. I guess thats just tough. Collectively, the industry needs to nip this in the butt. Or we'll all keep taking it in the butt from these managers taking home huge bonuses at our expense.

You do realise that these guys taking the job at Jetstar will earn roughly what you would flying an ATR72 for Mt Cook. Mt cook get 11 days off and don't work anywhere near 85hrs!

Mt Cook ATR72 FO $60,000 base. $12-$14000 in allowances and 8.75% super. Not far off ay. 180 seats to 68 seats. Work that out. WTF!!!

I rest my case. If you all want to sell nana and give your left testie or titti for that matter, knock yourselves out! The water may be a little chilly for those people who have accepted these terms and conditions.

[Fruet Mich]

I'd say pigdriver neads to return to the Jetstar boardroom and let the real hardworking pilots ta;lk this through.

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Fruity, old bean...

I do hear what you're saying (even when you write 'good' instead of 'god', and 'ganda' instead of 'gander' - but I'll not be too critical :) ), but I have to disagree.

If it came down to a dollar-for-dollar comparison between an ATR job and an A320 job, then I'd still choose the A320. "For why" I hear you ask? Lots of reasons - more comfortable place to spend 8 hours a day, a smoother, quieter place to spend those 8 hours, climbs out of the turbulence you kiwi's seem to have to live with day-to-day, and twice as many 'good sorts' to spend the day joking with (cabin crew for those who didn't twig).

But it's not a dollar-for-dollar comparison; for starters, by your own figures, it's 8.3% more to the jet jockey if neither flies a single hour. Then you mention 85 hours. If that A320 F/O works those 85 hours that you mention, then he'll/she'll be far and away better off than the ATR pilot. And from memory, NZ-based pilots will get paid an hourly allowance too. Add it all up and it's not too shabby. It's certainly not fantastic, but nor is it pauper's money!

One last point that I think is relevant in this day and age; the speed/weight/pax formula died a rightful death many years ago. Just because something is bigger and faster than another type, doesn't mean that we are entitled to earn that much again as the smaller/slower/less pax type. Sure, we all expect a bit more (and we all tend to get a bit more) for flying heavier metal, but reasonableness must prevail and has prevailed. Let's be fairdinkum here (for kiwi's, that's 'fair suck of the sav'), a QF B744 Captain does not earn 7 times the pay of a Dash8 (-300) Captain, or 11 times a SF340 Captain, or even twice a B767 Captain!

And when I made the comment about being in the wrong part of the world, it was on the basis of remuneration, not from a lifestyle/natural assets perspective. I think NZ is a truly gorgeous place.

Shame it's wasted on the kiwi's then. Ay?:}

[Beeroclock]

RAD ALT..


Not too shabby..

Its an absolute joke..Dont try to tart it up and make it sound like a fair and good deal!! You shouldnt have to be doing at least 85 hours a month just to make your wage worthwhile..
Leave the tarting up for the old girls down the back..

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Beero,

Welcome to the real world! The world in which the old ways are being seen for what they always were - a trough for all to gorge themselves at.

Sure, I'd like to work under 'old' rules (and, who knows, perhaps I have in the past...) where you'd bid permanent reserve because the contracts had to productivity clauses in them. That way you'd get the 'BIG' bucks paid to you for your day job, while you're out making more money from some business venture on the side!

Give me a big fricken break already! :eek:

Wake up and smell the roses (a little on the JetA side of fragrant for my tastes).

No one's coming to any of you malingering layabouts on bended knees begging you to work for JQ (in fact, if I knew who any of you were, I'd beg on bended knee that we didn't take you) if you think the work's gonna be too hard on you!

Keep flying your old clunker jets, or your turbo props, or your FS consoles (and keep raking in those 'big bucks' that you obviously are), for all any of those 'real', aspiring drivers care. No disrespect to those within our small community who still fly whatever they're on and are happy doing it. I thought we all got into the game because we wanted to fly...all the rest that comes with the job can be thrown into the 'details' bucket, including pay and conditions.

You either want it, or you don't. If you do, good luck to you. If you don't, then don't be cynical and puerile about it. If you really think that by absenting yourselves from the process, you will make JQ improve the contract, then let's all wait and see.

[pigdriver]

fruet mich, you clown, I have not worked for jetstar, nor will I ever. To make a comment like that , just shows you are out of touch. 85 hrs is not uncommon now, ( we do that every month, albeit it both shorthaul as well as regional flying), and have done for the better part of almost 20yrs!! (what war...!!??)
I agreed with what rad alt says, if you dont like the conditions on offer, dont take the job.Its real simple... (if you ever left enzed and worked contracts, you would know this, after all, no one is making you join.) It sounds to me, like you are an unhappy jitconnect f/o, who has never done any hard yards, has managed to get his little shiny jet gig at home, and now is the expert on terms and conditions.
I am , as I have said many times , not agreeing with whats on offer, but if guys are leaving other airlines (pacblue etc), they are not going to change them now.The reason I have shown some interest in this topic, I have many mates both kiwi and australian who have/are looking at returning home and have been looking at this job.
To say that the guys who accept these conditions will get a cold reception is silly, as afterall you did.( sorry jitconnects were alot worse when they started, as were impulse/J* australias)
My advise to guys looking at it, if YOU want the job, take it. The conditions will only get better over time.

[Beeroclock]

RAD ALT..

Pay and conditions...In the detail bucket!! So we are all doing this cause we want to fly?? Well i certainly dont go to work to fly,i go to work to be paid as i dont consider letting the aircraft take me from A to B with the Autopilot on flying.
Whilst i go to work i dont like seeing the conditions going backwards rather then forwards cause of the likes of people like you...If you are doing it to fly(after all pay is a minor detail) go and actually pole an aircraft round(not a 320) and stop ruining what was once a financially rewarding industry by accepting sub standard pay and conditions..
People soon in GA will no longer have anything to look forward to in a monetary sense once they have done there time actually poling an aircraft round as they will be going onto a 320,which they paid for and earning less then some probably were in GA..Why bother leaving GA?? Oh its that big jet thing isnt it..

Ps dont worry about bending over and begging for them not to take me as there is not a chance in hell i will ever submitt an application to them..Not only that i would hate for the numerous pineapples to fallout your arse in doing so..

Right im going back to layabout and fly my FS console...:eek:

[Charliethewonderdog]

I am going to except crap conditions for the good of my family

CRAP....... PURELY SELFISH REASONS. Do not hide behind your wifes dress and your kids lunch box when excepting these conditions. Go out and get a REAL job that PAYS.

FFS... WHERE WILL THE BOTTOM END????????? PILOTS ARE $%^KED... I'm getting more and more embarrassed calling my self one.

ARE we Professionals or not???

I reckon we should be bringing back some sought of BLACK list for weak pricks who think they are pilots who take these positions.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU KIWI"S???? Stand up and make a stand... support your unions, and draw a line in the sand (or snow) in the words od Daryl Kerrigan "tell them to get stuffed"....

[Sand dune Sam]

The only reason Jetstar are doing this is that they know Kiwis will work for less...then in 12 months time, the Kiwis will be complaining about how the Aussies get paid more than them!!!

[blacksmoke]

Charlie the expert. Yep, bring back a blacklist and that will solve everything. Just remember to put all the pacblue and jetconnect pilots on the list as well, as they are working for less than air NZ.. Actually, you had better put the jetstar Oz pilots on it to, as they are working for much less than qantas guys.
To make such a comment, when there is already an airline in new zealand with worse conditions than jetstar are offering, is rediculous. (aka pacblue), especially while its full of kiwis.... So whos actually bringing down the conditions?????

[PegasusFury99]

Even if the pay in NZ was half good - I still would NOT apply for a job in NZ because there is tooOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo much BITCHING.

I enjoy contracting around the world. 6mths here/there/anywhere. I have flown with 26 nationalities and have held license's in 8 countries. I enjoy my 6mths back in NZ every year, but NEVER would dream of getting a NZ license - God forbid - I would have to do 100hrs Line Training AKL-WLG-AKL-CHC-AKL.
I'd go start raving mad.
Perhaps thats the reason you all BITCH BITCH BITCH:eek:

[Fruet Mich]

Piggy, hehe that hit a raw nerve! sorry mate, bit below the belt. It just seemed a little strange how supportive you are towards these crappy T&C's.

I'm not sure you'll have any mates left if they know the terms and conditions on offer back home and that you are quite supportive of them? 85hrs credit in Aussie would not be a lot of flying.

Try doing 85hrs a month on just MEL-CBR sectors or even SYD-CBR sectors. Thats about all these kiwi crews will be doing, sector times that is. Not long. I would say you would be doing very well to acheive 85hrs per month doing that.

Jetstar are touting their contract around saying it's a great contract because of the incentive pay. Current CHC based Jitconnect pilots do about 65hrs a month and are working 18 days in a 28 day roster.

So as you can see, it will take at least a couple of tasmans per month which would bring it up to 20 days in a 28 days roster to get your 85hrs. Mind you, Jetstar are quick to show you how you can acheive the 85hrs by posting a roster showing how it can be done in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in one.

I'm not to sure your friends wanting to return home from their wonderful contracts abroad would be happy working that amount of days per month for that amount of money? Or perhaps I'm wrong?

Rad Alt, how many days are you guys working a month a Jetstar Aus? I heard you get 11 rostered days a month for the first 6 months and 10 for the second? Maybe I'm wrong. But that makes you 2-3days a roster better off and you still work you 85hrs a month?

Also Rad Alt, why are you so passionate about seeing a professional pilots salary decreased? I'm sorry mate, it's very confusing why a professional pilot would support that? That just doesn't compute? You're very vocal on this site about this. Are we not all in this industry together where we've worked our buts off. We all beg, steel and borrow every little spare penny just so we can afford an hours flying. Then we work our ass's off working for some piss ass tin pot operator getting raped for all we've got just to get some hours for our first real turboprop job. In the end we have you tell us all to stop our whinging because we want to be paid a fair wage for our professionalism and experience gained from many years in the industry at sub standard salaries whilst our friends all get ahead in other industries. Yes we all got into flying because we love it and would not want to do anything else. Would it not be fair for Kiwis to earn the same money as Australian based Jetstar pilots but in NZD? I mean common mate, fair friken dinkum!?

All I have said all along is we all just need to say no. Plain and simple. All these under paid jet jobs in NZ are Australian airlines flogging the kiwis because we kiwis accept what they offer. It's time we shoved a pinneapple or two up their ass!

Peace

[SuperDooperEngineer]

Wat Sand Dune Sam says in his post, is wat is happening right now with the Jetstar Engineers in CHC

[Normasars]

Once again, reread my previous post

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Fruity, my little germanic friend,

You've (unwittingly, I presume) misrepresented what I'm vocal/passionate about; it's not about wanting to see professional pilots' salaries decreased! When have I said that? Why would I say that? Like I said, I'd love to be earing big, BIG money. But I'm earning alright money, so I'm not complaining about my lot - had I been a more patient man, I might have been able to earn alot more given time, but I couldn't cope with the 'means' to the 'end'. So I jumped ship at the first opportunity.

It's what I meant about choosing lifestyle; I looked at the contract, discussed it with the Minister for Home Affairs, talked about the pay, and decided it was better than being woefully unhappy where I was (even though I was earning the 'big' bucks).

What I am passionate about is some people's views (yours included) about those pilots who choose to apply to work for Jetstar on the current contract.

Has it occurred to you that the contract on offer now, may not be the one you're on in the long term? The contract that was in place at JQ when I joined was nothing to rave about. But a few short years later, although still not perfect, it's alot better than it was.

So now that JQ is starting a NZ operation, why would they offer more than they feel they need to? The market will sort out what the acceptable minimum is.

And that's really the point; look to the future when deciding whether or not to take the opportunity offered today. Those who can see past their bulging hip pockets may well see a future where negotiation and compromise result in a improvements to pay and conditions.

Those who join now will get all the benefits of any future increase in P and C's while having benefited from being at the company for a while, ie their spot on the seniority list.

And to answer your question about days off, yes we do have 10/11 days off per month here. And yes, although it varies across bases/types/ranks, alot of pilots still do 85 hours + each month. That's because when the new roster protocol came in, it did so at the same time as roster-pairings were re-evaluated so that we would all work longer days to achieve the days off. Another example of negotiated compromise helping both sides of the table. Doesn't happen often, but when it does it should be recognised as for the good that it is.

Again, it's everyone's individual choice; get in at the start and enjoy the benefits of being near the top of the seniority list while waiting for P & C's to get better, or wait until they do before you take the plunge and then have to wait so much longer for those same benefits (ie promotion/base allocations/leave slots/etc).

And as for earning the same as we do? Yes, I believe you NZers should earn the same as we do; If we earn ?,000s in AUD, then you guys should earn at least the same figure in NZD. And that's the crux - if the NZ JQ pilots fly the hours that's expected, then that will roughly be the case.

Peace? Nay, Peace AND Love, brother.:ok: