Might loose my job-advice!

[JudasPilot?]

Ok... what to do?

I've been working as a PIC on piston twins for some two years now. The last year things have somewhat started to happen.

Our chiefpilot is using alcohol, I'm expected to depart with overweight, fly acft which are due for service and with snag.

I know it isn't easy to get any jobs. However I'm young and afraid of getting any incidents on my records. It has gone so far that some of the joy of flying has dissapeared.

The last couple of weeks we have started to argue and I'm now seriously thinking about quiting. But what about the rumours in the GA business which spread very quickly.

I'm in a real difficult situation at the moment, and would really appreciate some constructive advice. I'm also afraid that talking to the managment wouldn't make any difference.

Thank you all

ps. sorry for the spelling.

edited for spelling!

[This message has been edited by JudasPilot? (edited 22 June 2001).]

[AffirmBrest]

Do you think the managment would back you up if you DID have an incident and departed in an overweight, unsafe a/c??

Cover your own arse, stick to the regs (FARS, JARS whatever) RIGIDLY - if they fire you then take 'em to a tribunal and if you find it hard to get another job because you think that your bosses have been spreading rumours, tell the FAA about the CP and their operation and get your own name cleared in the process.

I know that seems like rather simplistic advice, but it really is the only thing to do. CRM and being tactful doesn't come into it when you are being instructed to operate in an unsafe manner. DON'T GO!!

It sounds like you value your current job more than your life or career. If you think rumours might be bad for employment prospects, think what an accident in an illegal aircraft would do!!

Stick by your guns, and good luck in resolving an awkward situation by doing the right thing.

PS You didn't say whether you carry passengers - I hope to God that if you do you think of their safety rather than your job (if you don't, you don't actually deserve a job as a professional pilot - problem solved)

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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...

[WGW]

No idea of the protocol when it comes to this sort of thing, but you might try contacting GAPAN or BALPA anonymously and see if they can offer advice. Check their web sites for e-mail addresses and send from a hotmail address - put enough effort into the message to show that you're not wasting their time and you genuinely need help and see what replies you get.

Best of luck.

WGW

[JudasPilot?]

AffirmBrest,

thanks for the input.

I said that I'm expected to fly "illegal" acft, to use that expression (which is the right one, atleast to me!). Not that I do.

No, we don't carry pax. We used to before, but after JAROPS we just operate on a decleration of competancy.

To mention one episode. Last winter we had a survey were we were unautorized to enter specific types of airspace. I flew as PIC and he as SIC. He wanted me to fly through that particular airspace since parts of our jobs were there, but since we were unautorized I rejected. He made a big thing out of it and mentioned stuff like: "If we're going to get this job done we have to" and "they've got radar and will tell us if we do anything wrong". It's not especially fun to watch him take a pint of beer just before a flight either! Even that has happened. Makes me wonna arange a rampcheck on an early flight some day.

thanks again...

[scroggs]

There is no conceivable way that this is the appropriate forum to discuss this situation. You should consult BALPA, in confidence, and as soon as possible, to air your suspicions and worries. They will, hopefully, give you legally correct advice without revealing you to others.
I am removing this thread from Wannabes to Aircrew Notices - where you may find some more useful advice. What you think our community of learners can help you with escapes me!

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Scroggs
Wannabes Forum Moderator
[email protected]

[DownIn3Green]

JP,

Affirmed gives sage advice if you want to try and stay on your job. However, I suspect the situation is deteriorating rapidly, and in your heart you know it.

Consider this: It might be better for you if you hand in your notice with a real ar$e kissing "thank you for the opportunities" and "I've really enjoyed working here" and "Thank you for the excellent reference letter", etc., while you still have that option.

If your snake of a Chief Pilot decides to sack you, although from what you've said he'd be in the wrong, no amount of legal maneuvers or political spin will entirely erase this episode from your record.

I don't know about Europe, but the FAA requires a 10 year background check for each new hire at each airline. Just imagine what will be said about you "unofficially" behind your back.

The thing is, you may never find out. Others with less quals will be getting jobs where you will get a pleasant "Thank you for your application" rejection. No one will ever tell you why.

I know it is hard for you to give up you job (such as it is) with the abundance of hours you are no doubt flying at this stage in your career, especially if you don't have anything on the horizon.

But believe me, it is far better to leave now under straight forward circumstances, than get terminated for cause.

And don't kid yourself. When this screwball decides to pull your plug, it won't be for a reason such as refusing to fly overweight or not wanting to fly with an inebriated F/O. He'll come up with something creative such as "Mr. X's uniform is always sloppy", or "Mr. X was 10 minutes late for his flight" (this after the show time is changed without your knowledge) or even the ever popular "Company staffing requirements have changed, therefore...".

If that happens and then you complain, you'll be just another "disgruntled former employee" whom no one will take much notice of.

What is happening to you is criminal, but you are a new pilot with your whole career ahead of you. You don't need this pi$$ing contest, and you can't save the world.

Save yourself.

[TowerDog]

I have been in the same situation:
Flew old beaten up planes in Alaska for several years. Yes, overloaded, yes broke some rules...
Now I am very glad I survived it all without getting killed, and without getting in trouble with the Feds.

Here is my advise: Set your own standards and stick with 'em. Tell you boss to screw himself if he does not like you grounding broken planes or refusing flights for WX or whatever reason.
Also build yourslef a paper trail in case you have to prove something later or explain to the next bossman why you got fired.
As for drinking on the job: Don't get it the same airplane with the guy. You could go down with him in more than one way.

Good Luck.



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Men, this is no drill...

[Agaricus bisporus]

Nothing to do with BALPA, not their part of ship.

Contact CHIRP immediately, talk to Peter Tait, follow it up in writing - it is confidential, believe me. He WILL act, tactfully and effectively if you are right in your allegations.

And get out of that nest of rats straight away. Now. And make sure you explain to them nicely in writing why you are leaving, and if poss take documentary evidence with you - copies of tech logs, diary notes etc. They wont dare bad mouth you if you are right, their reputation is worth more to them than damaging yours.

Your life and career are on the line if you stay, the risk is not worth it. I would suggest they might well pay you 3 mths in lieu of notice just to get you out after a well written letter explaining your reasons.

However dont expect much action from the CAA to correct the situation, they arent very good at enforcing the rules in cases like this, and the company will very likely get clean away with it, if under some scrutiny. That is where CHIRP comes in, they get the info to well connected people so at least the problem gets recognised.

Good luck mate. Get out, and get a fresh start, fast!

[DownIn3Green]

Who or what is CHIRP? Sounds like good advice, taking tech logs (but just copies) for future insurance....

[Agaricus bisporus]

D3, CHIRP - Confidential Human factors Incident Reporting System. A UK independant government funded organization for guaranteed-confidential reporting of incidents such as the above - in fact anything involving air safety. A superb and well trusted way of getting just this kind of nasty stopped, or at least recognised whilst protecting the reporter from recriminations.

One of the better ideas in the UK air regulation system.

[DownIn3Green]

Thanks,

Sounds like a good deal, CHIRP.

[The Nr Fairy]

Go to CHIRP (http://www.chirp.co.uk/) for the online version. You can download report forms - not sure if you can send them electronically as well.

[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 25 June 2001).]

[askop]

One advice. GET OUT.

Had the same experience a year ago with my employer. We talked about the problem and alot got better. But if you can't talk to your managment GET OUT.

[This message has been edited by askop (edited 25 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by askop (edited 25 June 2001).]

[Smudger]

Judas, you've been given good advice here. I have no idea who you work for, but you need to get out now. If you carry on, you could end up dead. Sorry to be so blunt, but flying can be a cruel master.

[4 of 7]

Smudger
I don't think flying is a cruel master, I personally believe that it is gravity when its in a really grumpy mood (is Gravity female?)

Seriously, the advice is good. In terms of employment law (not that the management gives a toss, or they wouldn't do what they're doing in the first place) DO keep a written record of what goes on. In an Industrial Tribunal it is ESSENTIAL to have evidence (corroborated if at all possible).

That could be particularly important if these characters try the 'you'll never get another job in aviation' routine.

There are a lot of good companies out there, and that's where you need to be.

Let's be honest, because of your post, you've already left, its only your body that reports - look after it.

Chirp is good, but you may not have time, ring them.

Good luck!

[Send Clowns]

JudasPilot? Is a query. The answer is no. You are not a traitor to consider your own and other people's safety, and your career that is being risked by other people's stupidity, arrogance and greed.

One point to remember is that if the company's bad operating practices come to light and you are connected with them your reputation will suffer as mch as the worst case leaving your employer.

Whatever happens, good luck.

[ 08 July 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]