operating cost

[TRITAR500]

Hi,

I would like to know the operating and running cost for a B-747-200F with CF6-50E2 engine. Value of the aircrfat 11 $million.

Thank you very much
:ugh:

[B772]

What is the monthly utilisation and the hour/cycle ratio ?
How much per hour for pilots and F/E's ?

[Dysag]

I've had this type of question dozens of times in my working life. It still astounds me.

Just think whether the operating cost would be the same if flown by Ryanair or Air France, and you will start to understand. And do you mean just direct costs or including all overheads down to the CEO's mistress?

If you will be the operator, you will know how much you're going to pay for crews, insurance, maintenance, lease, finance etc. No need to ask elsewhere.

Whichever way, the cost will be closely linked to the operator's local environment, and it's not an easy sum to do. Get your calculator out!

B772, at least you understand. For some folks it's always easier to ask someone else. Avoids thinking too much!

[TRITAR500]

It is for ADOC flights, starting with 120H/month. Capt:15000$US, F/O and F/E 7000$US

[saman]

$289,653.23 per hour or part thereof.

Well, depending on fuel price where you live, crew salaries and expenses, engine and airframe hours so far, typical sector length, maintenance costs, labour rates, utilisation, depreciation policy, interest and insurance costs and loads more besides.

It's a simple question but the answer ain't!

[TRITAR500]

I am looking for:
- reserve for engine, apu, landing gear.
- What is the ratio for the maintenance per hour (engine, airframe, electronic)

[eliptic]

He he, i did some calculations on this for some year ago,,Europe -Asia

If i remember right i ended up with the same price as it would cost to buy "normal" economy tickets to get break even and i would need 100% full plane

[TRITAR500]

typical flight will be 6H leg
I do not need handling cost or overflight.
The operation is base in Middle-east so US price are good

[aseanaero]

Haji season must be coming up I think :-)

Sounds like a Mecca charter

[TRITAR500]

no it is for cargo operation

[carholme]

The real question is why are you paying 11 million USD for a -200F. I hope it is fresh from "C" check with plenty time remaining to "D". Plenty of eng cycles remaining, recent gear O/H. etc., etc. Most of the available -200Fs are well high of the 70K flight hour mark.

carholme

[TRITAR500]

price is 9,5 but I include the "D" check 1,5. the plane has 90K FT. If you know good one from 1985 or above and cheaper, you are welcome

[carholme]

Sir;;
If you are seeking operating costs for the -200F, which you do not seem to be aware of, yet you know enough to allow for 1.5 for a "D" check, I wish you well. sounds like you are after the Icelandic aircraft and if you are happy to pay that amount in this market, have at it.

carholme

[Intruder]

If you look at current ACMI costs, you can get an idea of average operating cost over a long term. First-order estimate would be $5000/hour plus fuel.

[carholme]

TRISTAR;

Getting to the D4/5 stage of a freighters life is a whole new field in terms of costs. I attach this:

http://www.aircraft-commerce.com/sample_articles/sample_articles/owners_guide.pdf

to give you some idea of relevant, basic, direct maintenance costs.

carholme

[74tweaker]

price is 9,5 but I include the "D" check 1,5.

WOW!:eek:

I think you will be slightly shocked when you get the final bill......and it comes out no-where near 1.5 million.

[eliptic]

hmmm..looks like a perfect way to get deadly broke..quick:oh:

[mutt]

Intruder, we can get -400's for that amount, so i would expect the -200 to be around $4000.....

Mutt

[CR2]

mutt, ACMI lets say 3500-4000/hr.

[TRITAR500]

After few calculation:
- maintenance ramp check: 400$ F/H
- check A: 135$ F/H
- check C&D: 550$ F/H
- landing gear: 105$ F/C
- tyre: 46$ F/C
- wheel: 40$ F/C
- brake: 245$ F/C
- reverser: 115$ F/C
- apu: 120$ F/C
- lru: 600$ F/h
- engines: 1060$ F/H
- insurance: 2%
- crew: 250 $ F/H

Based on 6H leg and 2000H/year


What do you think?:confused:

[74tweaker]

I think you C/D reserves are too low.

[Super Connie]

Hi, you live in Bruxelle? Have you looked at OO-CBB ex Cargo B parked in Liége and for sale! 1981 model with 100k flt hrs but fresh out of an AMECO Bejing D-check and ready to fly! Let me know if you need current crews!
Good luck

[mutt]

Looking at your operating costs and the present ACMI rate for the aircraft, it wont work!

Also look at your crew rates, required number of crews and you end up paying an average of $55,000 per crew member (3 crews by 3 positions). Is this sufficient? What about per diems, crew insurance etc?

I also dont see any capital repayment costs nor training costs.

Back to the drawing board! :):)

Mutt

[TRITAR500]

No I haven't see this one, do you have any contact, thank you.

[bcgallacher]

Frankly,anyone thinking of coming into the airline business at the moment must have little knowledge of the situation.Never forget the surest way to make a small fortune in the airline business is to start with a big fortune.You can still get 4% interest on your money if placed right = you will never get that return in this business !

[Maeshe]

Guvnor alert - esp with Tristar in the name! :O

[glhcarl]

You may find this site helpful:

http://www.icao.int/icao/en/ro/allpirg/allpirg4/wp28app.pdf

[Super Connie]

OO-CBB
Try: AIR CONTRACTORS Ireland +353 1 812 1900
or Cargo B Belgium +32 2 741 20 18
Good luck

[TRITAR500]

Thanks, will try:ok:

[Fly4Fun]

Well, you say that you're intending to pay a Captain $15,000 a F/O and F/E $7,000 each (I assume it's monthly wages), doing a simple math (not counting with social contributions, pension, etc) you get, per year per each set of crew, at least:

Captain: $180,000, F/O: $84,000, F/E: $84,000, Total: $348,000

Assuming that you will have at least 5 sets of crew you get:

$348,000 x 5 = $1,740,000 per year.

Dividing this by 2,000 block hours you get $870 per hour.

All this to say that with $250 per hour for flight crew you probably will get 1 and a half sets of crew!

[sunny11410]

Since you're even not familar with operating & maintenance reserve costs of a -200, I assume you don't have any idea how expensive it comes if you don't have any spare parts etc. in stock .....and believe me, you need a lot on short notice to keep a classic 747 flying !!