ICAO Airport codes

[Pelican]

I quite like the IATA airport codes. One of the things I like about them is that most of them actually make sense. No such luck when it comes to the ICAO codes. Sure the occaisional code might make sense but by and large there doesn't seem to be any logic involved. As an example let's look at London Luton Airport (IATA code LTN) which is EGGW. I find it hard to locate the letters G and W in the name of the airport. What makes it even stranger is that there is the close by airport London Gatwick, which, as you may have already noticed, does include the G and the W and would have been an obvious candidate to receive the EGGW code. But, no, they decided to use the code EGKK. This is just one example of the mysteries of ICAO coding and there are, as we all know, many more. Who came up with these codes ?? They are clearly impractical by seldomly reflecting the name of the airport and as a consequence us poor pilots (snif) have to keep looking up all the codes for the airports we fly over (unless you have a real good memory, in which case you would be a lawyer).

[Zulu]

Interesting...I had the exact OPPOSITE problem!

I spent seven years in ATC, where we use ICAO for all airports, so Heathrow was always "EGLL", Gatwick "EGKK" and so on.
Now I am flying, and like every airline we use IATA codes. So it confused me at first to see "LGW"..."GW" would get me thinking of "EGGW" and therefore Luton! "HAJ" for Hanover? "EDDV" is surely more intuitive! And so on.
There is a logic to ICAO...The first letter is the region, followed by country code, followed to two letters for the airport.

"EG.." Europe, Great Britain
"ED.." Europe, Germany
"LF.." Europe, France
"K..." USA

Some IATA codes are obvious...like JFK, STN, AMS, but TXL for Berlin? FCO for Rome?

Each system has it's pluses and minuses - but you have 456976 ICAO codes to 17576 IATA codes.

A prize to the first person to list them all....

[Numpo-Nigit]

As I understand it, each country can allocate its ICAO designators as it wishes, within the global scheme, thus the UK can arrange the last two letters according to its whim.

Despite initial appearances, the UK codes are logical, in an historic manner. With the relatively-crude switching systems available on the AFTN (Aeronautical Fixed Telecommunication Network) in the 50s and 60s, there was a need to keep flight plan addresses to a simple system. Thus, after the pre-ordained EG, the country was sub-divided into areas for the third letter -
A = Northern Ireland (A for Aldergrove?)
B = Birmingham
C = Manchester
D = Military airfields in SW England
etc, etc
The last letter indentified the specific location, with the added fact that the main AFTN unit in that area had the fourth letter the same as the third, eg EGKK, EGLL, EGTT.

In recent years the advent of software switching and better systems of data transfer have made the system somewhat of an anachronism, but it has been deemed too difficult to make wholesale changes. However, new airports like Sheffield (EGSY) do not conform to the original master plan.

Other countries, like France and Italy, have a very similar system, so we're not unique. I hope that this rather fact-laden reply does cast a little more light on the subject.

[Midnight Blue]

Just to explain some IATA Codes:

Berlin has (at least) 3 airports:
TXL = Berlin Tegel
SXF = Berlin Schönefeld
THF = Berlin Tempelhof

And FCO for Rome makes sense if you see, that the name of the field is Fiumicino.

Anyway, I sometimes have problems with ICAO AND IATA Abbreviations. :)

[Rollingthunder]

I'm a great fan of standardization of processes - where it makes sense. Two separate designators for the same destination does not make sense, it only adds confusion. Confusion in aviation should be minimized for obvious reasons.

[pax domina]

Hopefully not too far off the subject . . . but a thumbs up to the first person who knows the (logical) reason why Orlando International is MCO. Captain Ed is disqualified because this question is *way* too easy for him. :)

Interesting discussion - another way a site like this enlightens humble folks such as myself.

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Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death.

[Turtlenest]

McCoy AFB. Used to be a joint use SAC base. Before Lt. (or whatever his rank was) McCoy pranged, I believe it was called Pine Castle AFB.

[pax domina]

:)

[Rollingthunder]

Damn, I thought it was, "Mostly Charter Operators"

[pax domina]

Noooooo, you must be confusing MCO with SFB. :) MCO has had regularly scheduled airline service for a number of years now. ;)

To let folks here return to a serious discussion, perhaps I'll start a "what do the letters stand for?" thread on Jet Blast . . .



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Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death.

[Rollingthunder]

Damn acronyms.

[pterodactyl]

Municipal County Orlando?

[apioca]

Speaking og strange IATA codes:
What is the logic behinf YYZ and all the other Canadian Y-codes?

Closer to home how can Teesside get to be MME?

[Aerosmith]

Chicago O´Hara: ORD (Orchard field)
Cincinnati: CVG (Covington)
Moscow: SVO (Sheremetyvo)
Rome: CIA (Ciampino)
New Orleans: MSY (Moisant)
Washington Dulles IAD (...huh..)

[Wycombe]

At least in the US it is (mostly) easy, as
at major airports, ICAO and IATA codes are
combinded, eg,

San Francisco Intl = SFO, KSFO
LAX = LAX, KLAX (what else!)
New York JFK = JFK, KJFK
San Jose = SJC, KSJC etc etc

One I have always wondered about - Malaga, Spain = AGP - why?

[HugMonster]

Why is Teesside MME?
What was JFK's code while it was still called Idlewilde? Or CDG's when it was still Roissy?

[ohtofly]

how about

Jon Wayne Orange Country IATA code SNA

[cox]

Speaking of German codes: Can anyone tell me why some of them start with ET.. and others with ED..

e.g. EDDN Nürnberg
ETHC Celle.

There doesn't seem to be any GDR-West Germany logic behind this....

[Hotel Tango]

ED is for civil and ET for military facilities.

[GPSman]

SNA = Santa Ana (or John Wayne, or Orange County, if you prefer).

[This message has been edited by GPSman (edited 16 August 2000).]

[ockham hold]

Teesside MME for MMiddlEsborough, the nearest big city ?

[Check 6]

IAD (Dulles) = International Airport Dulles methinks.

Check 6

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Kick the tires, light the fires, first off is lead, brief on guard.

[The Guvnor]

This is a great little site where you can find just about any ICAO/IATA code: http://www.ar-group.com/icaoiata.htm From there, you can also do some instant time and distance calculations - very useful! :) :) :)

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Jean210]

Wycombe
AGP = Agripina (Roman name for Malaga)

HugMonster
JFK was IDL

CDG always so, Roissy is the closest town so often used iso CDG (bit like FCO which is officially Leonardo da Vinci)

IAD is a special case that was explained in an Airways magazine article on the subject some years ago. Originally (in 1962) Dulles was DIA (Dulles Intl AP) but it was found that controllers sometimes wrote DCA on the flight progress strips in error (for National Airport). After a few flights had been vectored to the wrong airport, it was changed to IAD.

[OO-AOG]

Does someone knows why Amsterdam Schipol has 2 official IATA codes: AMS and SPL ???

Also, during the handover from Hong Kong KaiTak to the new airport, what were the ICAO codes in use?. I believe that both airports were operating simultanaeously for some days and obviously not both using HKG ?!

[karrank]

The structure of the AFTN used to dictate entirely the ICAO codes used here in Oz, you even had to ensure you put them in the right order to avoid multiple delivery to some stations. Everything going through Perth had to start with AP, APPE for Pearce, APGN for Geraldton etc.

With the concentration of all the com centres to Brisbane and changing to "Y" for our region code they could harmonise the IATA/ICAO codes a bit. YPEA for Pearce, YGEL for Geraldton. Course they lost interest in this process and haven't fixed any others up, for no good reason I can think of.

With modern com tecnology it could be done easy.

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"Station calling Centre, grow a head..."

[Smurfjet]

OO-AOG
Does someone knows why Amsterdam Schipol has 2 official IATA codes: AMS and SPL ???

I believe its Amsterdam Schipol airport, thats why the SPL. Anyone cares to add to this?

Smurfy

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Approaching Minimums...Minimums, Minimums...

[This message has been edited by Smurfjet (edited 23 August 2000).]

[TwinAisle]

In the same vein....

Filton, UK - FZO (eh? all that was left?)

Dubai (why DXB? Sounds like a bomb scare warning to me)

Nagano - QNG (Obvious - not!)

Also - didn't someone other than Orlando have MCO once?

I think, as regards the HKG question, that there WAS NO parallel ops period - I thought they decamped from KT to CLK over one night... but I could be wrong...

[Jopa]

apioca,

Regarding your inquiry on the "meaning" of Canadian airports codes, here's a brief explanation. Originally, in the 1930's, Canada used two letters for identification of a weather reporting station. Additionally, preceding the 2-letter code, was placed a Y (meaning "yes") where the reporting station was co-located with an airport, a W (meaning "without") where the reporting station was not co-located with an airport and U where the reporting station was co-located with an NDB. An X was used if the last 2 letters of the code had already been taken by another Canadian ident, and a Z was used if the locator could be confused with a US three letter ident. The ICAO names are in a 4 letter format starting with a C for Canadian airports.

If it may interest you the following link provides an ICAO/IATA decoder for airports and cities: http://www.ar-group.com/icaoiata.htm

Hope it answers your question.

[Grandad Flyer]

I didn't realise that all American airports used both codes, ie. LAX or KLAX. Damn good idea! Why can't every other country use this? How much easier would THAT be?
Zulu, you make it sound almost logical.
But, er, let me see.
EG = Europe, Great Britain,
ED = Europe, Germany
LF = Europe, France

Right, so why is France not EF? How can "LF = Europe, France?

And you would think it would be EG = Europe, Germany.

Still, I am sure you see a logic in there somewhere (perhaps this is why ATCers and pilots never see things the same way?!!!)

[You splitter]

Both systems have their own little mysteries.

Basle for example has MLH for the Swiss side of the airfield and BSL for the French.

Also whilst we are on the subject there are a lots of new pilots that use the DME/NDB or localiser code for an airfield. I've seen many a Tech Log with the letters SND (Southend), BEL(Belfast), BRI (Bristol).

I agree do like the US system, why make things more difficult than they need to be.

[whoopwhoop]

OO-AOG
In the airline I first used to work for, we had almost always two three letter codes, e.g. LHR & LON. The COMAIL for the town office would be addressed to LON & LHR served the airport

[OO-AOG]

Whoopwhoop

I agree that LON is used as a general code for LHR/LCY/LGW/STN, TYO for HND/NRT, NYC for JFK/LGA/EWR or PAR for CDG/ORY/LBG but these IATA 'metropolitan' codes are only used for Comail or by travel agents and are not official airport codes.

Schipol has 2 different IATA codes, AMS and SPL. I don't understand why because there is only 1 airport deserving Amsterdam, no confusion possible.

[boredcounter]

OO-AOG
Feel free to blame the Big Airline types that do their thing or not at all.........
Real aviation staff playing at the game could not even hope to know SPL (aaaaaaagh it's real name) with Amsterdam......Even Bad Attitude's new handling agent has AMS.... as it's SITA address.
As hinted at earlier, it is a Res based city code.......
Gotta go gotta fly LON-PAR, now is that
STN-BVA, LHR-CDG or LGW-ORY, still at least for all LON airports the long stay carpark is the M25..................

[This message has been edited by boredcounter (edited 13 October 2000).]

[Land After]

YS,

Basel Mulhouse is the full name of the airport - hence the split BSL/MLH. I guess it's necessary to distinguish flghts originating (notionally) from inside and outwith the EU?

Does the same apply at GVA which also has a french sector?

[sickBocks]

The nature of the Scottish ICAO codes are as follows:

EG= Europe, Great Britain
P= for Prestwick
The final letter comes from the second syllable of the name

EGPH= Edinburgh TurnHouse
EGPF= Glasgow RenFrew

I'm off to get out more now.

Oh, France is LF because Finland is EF.

sB x

[traveler]

And they are very picky about their own language: L'europe.

[TwoDogs]

Re: Hong Kong

Kai Tak closed at mid-night (or there abouts) and Chek lAp Kok opened for business at 0600 the next day following a very long convoy of trucks, stairs and baggage trolleys.
The airports did actually operate simultaneously for a couple of hours between midnite and 0600 whilst a large number of aircraft repositioned from VHHH (Kai Tak) to VHHH (Chek lap Kok) for the early morning departures.

[Pdub]

Grandad Flyer, How about ED = Europe Deuschland?

p.s. sure I've spelt that wrong

[A Very Civil Pilot]

I'm glad that I first flew in New Zealand:

Christchurch - NZCH
Wellington - NZWN
Dunedin - NZDN
etc.

That's how to make life easy!

[Grizzly Bare]

How about the airport on Nuie Island : NUIE
N South Pacific
U Nuie
IE Nuie Airport

[P22]

The code for President Clintons hometown airport is KLIT (Little Rock).