Down to one pilot - what's the procedure?

[25F]

If (choice-of-deity forbid) you lose the other member of the flight crew, what's the procedure? I assume that if (by some chance) there's someone from the same airline and same type rating then they'll get drafted in to the now vacant seat.
(And if you're the co-pilot, and he's qualified as a captain, does he assume command?)

But after that, what's the order of choice? Would you draft a PPL in preference over a member of cabin crew, or would you just leave the seat empty?

[L337]

Leave the seat empty. Maximise the use of the autopilot.

[5150]

If there's a known company pilot on board then you'd obviously get them up front, but otherwise, to avoid complete panic down the back, I'd just get on with getting the thing on the ground. Anyone worth their salt could single-pilot an airliner under those circumstances. If it were an incap Captain, and there was a rated and current company captain on board, I would be happy for them to assume the role as Captain, what you have to remember is, is that an FO is the 2nd in command of an aircraft and the choice lies with them as to how they conduct the remainder of the flight with an incap Captain . . . although they'd be wise to adhere to company SOP's and not get carried away with their new found responsibility!

You could use a cabin crew to read out checklists etc, but to be honest, you'd get it done quicker by yourself . . .

[Otto Throttle]

On most short-haul & regional aircraft, you would be very, very lucky to get the incapacitated pilot out of their seat. Especially if they have developed their command belly to full potential. ;) I would expect that the drill in most airlines is for the CC to secure the affected pilot in their seat by locking the harness and pulling the seat as far from the controls as possible.

If the commander is incapicitated, nobody will know until the aircraft arrives on stand, and the FO has rung all the other pilots to see how much they are prepared to bid for the vacancy on the seniority list - the higher the bid, the smaller the chances of resucitation. If the FO pegs out, nobody notices until it is time to make the tea. :}

[Bealzebub]

Yes, that is why we have two type rated qualified pilots at the controls. The procedure would be to declare an emergency and land at the nearest suitable airport. Much the same as if you lost one of two engines. If there is another company pilot on board, they might very well be asked to assist. Another captain travelling on board who was fit to do so, could also assume command of the aircraft in such circumstances.

Sorry but whatever Hollywood might lead you to believe, PPL's et al would not be drafted in to assist. Cabin crew would almost certainly be required to attend to the incapacitated crewmember and to provide a liason to the cabin generally. As for reading checklists, no. The remaining pilot would read them themselves, they should know them anyway, and are much less likely to omit important items.

[25F]

Thanks for all the answers - seems pretty clear. Just to clarify - in normal operations, though, both pilots *do* have important roles to play, regardless of which one is currently "handling", yes?

I'll try and find some time to post up some more answers down in the "computers and internet" section, promise...

[Avman]

I'd ask if there's a passenger with 10.000 hours on FS on board :} ;)

("In" joke for those who read the Kingair thread a week or so ago)

[HeathrowAirport]

What happens if both pilots go?

[aviate1138]

The dog takes over - the one that bites the pilot's hand. :rolleyes:

Or, the UAV standby pilot takes over from somewhere in a USA desert hut.

After all the same organisation that controls chemtrails now has every passenger flight switchable to UAV operations...........

[Bullethead]

G'day 25F,

Dealing with pilot incapacitation is an event which is practiced every so often during cyclic simulator training in the airline I fly for so it should be handled competently if it ever happens.

Has it happened? As a matter fact yes, to me when I was an F/O. En-route from SYD to NRT the Captain returned from a rest break feeling off colour and was unable to resume his duties. He was suffering kidney stones.

I took over and we completed the flight to NRT which was about two hours away. An emergency was declared, Medlink was consulted and the ailing crewmwmber was looked after.

We were lucky enough to have a third pilot on the crew, due to the sector length, and he remained in the LHS for the rest of the flight.

It was a bit of an eye opener for him though, he'd never been to NRT before and the weather was right on chart minima, it was night time and his Captain had gone a pale green colour and was sitting in the observer's seat groaning and moaning.

On arrival the aircraft was met by airport medical staff and the Captain was examined and then passengered home the next day. He was treated back at home and has since resumed full duties.

After we got to the hotel the S/O and I hotfooted it to the "Truck", which sadly no longer operates.

Regards,
BH.

[mary meagher]

friend of mine a few years back arranged for me to fly a BA111 sim at Cranebank. I had 30 hours and a PPL. So of course asked him to set me up with the Hollywood scenario; BOTH pilots incapacitated (fortunately, their seats were available).

Plane at 35,000 somewhere over the midlands, on autopilot. So I of course occupied the LH seat, strapped in, put on the headset, decided to transmit a mayday. Presented with the yoke, a button to press on the right, another on the left. So of course, I pressed one, no tranmission. Pressed the other, got a friendly controller who promised to find someone to talk me down.

While waiting for assistance, noticed the altimeter had changed to 29,000. And than to 24,000. Hang on, better add more power here, moved throttles up. This didn't improve the situation. In fact, we rapidly moved down through the airways, until flashing lights and voices urgently saying "PULL UP, TERRAINE, PULL UP TERR.....' and everything went black.

So the cockpit door opened, and the sim operator informed me we were all dead. I had another chance and that time landed at Heathrow, safely. The problem on the first occasion was one button is the transmit, the other one disconnects the autopilot. Dont remember now which was which, so I better stay out of the cockpit.

[parabellum]

In one airline I worked for senior cabin crew were given very thorough and repeated training regarding the checklist, should they be required they had to read each item and not move on until they got the correct response. Not a widely used practice though.

[Otto Throttle]

The issue of checklists is an interesting one. If the incapacitation was to be the only abnormal situation, then I would agree that most pilots would probably prefer to continue without assistance, and completion of the normal checklists is no big deal.

However, if the incapacitation was in conjunction with another abnormal situation, lets say a fumes event or decompression which led to the incapacitation, then what? What about a fire or structural damage?

If abnormal checklists come into play, and depending on which checklist is required and which systems may no longer be operable, then I would absolutely seek any assistance which was available. I can't contemplate attempting to run an electrical emergency checklist whilst hand-flying the a/c on minimal instrumentation - it's hard enough with 2 pilots.

I know this in itself opens a further can of worms. How obvious is the location of the required system selectors/switches/instrumentation to a non-rated pilot, or CC member? Can you be certain that the correct selection will be made?

It's a tricky one to call, but I guess it has to come down to making a judgement on which course of action carries the least amount of risk.

[Nicholas49]

Can I ask how you summon a dead-heading company pilot to the flight deck without alarming passengers? Is it done by using a code over the PA? Or do the cabin crew go through the passenger list? How would they know whether a passenger was also a company pilot? I hope these aren't secret questions that can't be asked - I'm just curious!

Would there not also be a rest issue with a dead-heading pilot? Although I suppose no one would claim they're over FTLs when it comes to an emergency of that scale.

Nick

[deltayankee]

Can I ask how you summon a dead-heading company pilot to the flight deck without alarming passengers? Is it done by using a code over the PA?
Most of the time the positioning company pilots are known to the cabin crew and they are usually sitting up front near the flight deck anyway. There's no need to look for them and there is no need for any coded announcements.

[donnlass]

Hi Mary

Whilst reading your enjoyable post I remember back to a diagram of the cockpit stating that the autopilot controls are located on the glareshield or is the layout different on various types of aircraft?

Maybe I'm just being pedantic:bored:

Cheers

Donnlass

[grundyhead]

Let's suppose that BOTH flightdeck crew become incapacitated, for example due to smoe kind of smoke inhalation, how would cabin staff enter the flightdeck?

Do airlines have a SOP for this event?

[Load Toad]

..simply ask down the back of the 'plane if any body has a few hours on Flight Sim games - those guys usually know a load more than most pilots and don't mind telling everyone...

[Nicholas49]

deltayankee, thanks for that.

I shouldn't have said "dead-heading". What I actually meant was a company pilot in civilian clothes who is not positioning. For example, a pilot who is travelling on holiday with family, just by way of example. That type of passenger would not be known to the cabin crew, would he? How would you find him?

[ptr120]

even if off duty on holiday they would typically be travelling on an ID ticket. This would be on the manifest. Any pilot worth his salt would identify himself to the CC on boarding as a courtesy, regardless of if he is travelling on an ID ticket or not

[deltayankee]

That type of passenger would not be known to the cabin crew


Yes they would, holiday or not. They don't just sneak aboard covering their faces but are more likely to chat with the crew or at least say hello out of politeness. When you travel at the front you will often see people in plain clothes board and chat with the crew like old friends. Some are just non-flying company employees but very often they are company pilots.

[Nicholas49]

deltayankee - thanks, I take your point. But in the large airlines such as BA, I am sure that not every 777 or 747 pilot knows the cabin crew on an A321 - they operate entirely different routes with different aircraft on different schedules. They may never have crossed paths.

What about if you work for a different company but fly the same type? Would an easyJet A319 captain introduce himself to the cabin crew on a BA A319 as a matter of politeness/safety etc.?

[wiggy]

You're right, in the big outfits you're unlikely to be recognised by anyone....just as well really, especially when travelling with your partner :} :}... and as for introducing yourself to the Cabin Crew as a pilot for another airline, don't do it... At best they will label you as someone looking for an upgrade or at worse label you as being a sad b *****...or both.

Anyhow, we're all professionals here on this forum..right? - so we know how it works.....just wait for the secret coded PA call of "does anyone here know how to fly an airplane?????"

Just like this incident, recently aired on Aircrash Investigator, or something similar ...

YouTube - Airplane thriller! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYcTwmhEupg&feature=related)

[T250]

Would an ATCO be of any use in this scenario? As in an ATCO on-board, not via radio as ATC providing instructions etc.

Obviously I understand an ATCO unless they have had extensive pilot training above PPL will be of little use, but would they come in useful in some aspect? :confused:

[wiggy]

Personally like others here I'm not convinced of the value of having anyone else, other than trained Cabin Crew, involved, and even then personally I'd only use them to help reach the manuals and the like I couldn't reach from my seat - I'd handle my own checklists.

No disrepect but putting even a aviation savvy professional such as an ATC'er into the Flight Deck environment might well introduce CRM issues - even just trivial stuff like how to use the radios and the intercom could use up time best spent doing or monitoring something else.

[deltayankee]

What about if you work for a different company but fly the same type? Would an easyJet A319 captain introduce himself to the cabin crew on a BA A319 as a matter of politeness/safety etc.?

No, only in the case of crews from the same base (not even the same airline if it is big). Anyway it is a Hollywood myth that the crew needs the help of passengers so crews worry much less about this question than anxious passengers.

Most of the time the remaining pilot will land on their own with a little help from cabin crew if needed; if there is a known company pilot on board he or she will help out but there will be no search of the cabin for passengers with some sort of qualification. And in the rare cases of double incapacitation that I can think of the passengers were also incapacitated so no help was possible (Helios, the Payne Stewart bizjet and so on).

[Load Toad]

Shirley your joking?

[Scott Diamond]

I have seen these sort of threads pop up here too often for my liking! :ooh: :ugh:

[G SXTY]

My personal SOP for left hand seat incapacitation:

(1) Summon cabin crew to pull P1 away from the controls.

(1) Remove the spare set of bars which are kept my flight case just for this sort of occasion, and upgrade myself to 4 stripes.

(2) Continue to destination or land at nearest suitable airport, as appropriate (otherwise known as 'flying the aeroplane').

(3) Log the time as P1 and sell my heroic, death-defying story to the press.

In all seriousness, passengers at the front would notice a bit of extra activity around the flightdeck door, but people at the back probably wouldn't realise anything was different until we stopped on the runway (only one steering tiller on my type, and my arms aren't long enough to reach it from the right hand seat).

[Chesty Morgan]

G SXTY you can taxy the Dash without nose wheel steering just by using assymetric power and brakes. It takes a bit of juggling but a 90 degree turn off the runway followed by another 90 onto stand is possible and saves blocking the runway.

[G SXTY]

Thanks, I thought you probably could (if it works on a Duchess . . .) but I figured I'd be ready for a breather after missing all those schools and orphanages. :ok:

[Otto Throttle]

Nah, shut her down on the runway.

Especially if everybody's favourite Irish airline is hot on your heels. :E

[jportzer]

Surprised to see this incident not brought up. Over Ireland, an Air Canada 767 F/O had a mental breakdown and became incapacitated. A flight attendant, who was a qualified CPL (but not in anything related to passenger jets), was asked to occupy the F/O's seat to help with checklists and radio work. The flight landed safely in Shannon.

Summary report in Cabin Crew News:
Cabin Crew News: Air Canada flight attendant praised after taking over for incapacitated co-pilot (http://cabincrewblog.com/2008/11/air-canada-flight-attendant-praised.html)
AAIU report - full detail
http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/11139-0.pdf

It's a good story, and good example of appropriate CRM - using the resources of the crew as fully as possible.