Cargo pilot life

[profot]

Please don't scream at me if this subject has already been done to death. I did a search using the usual mediums but didn't come up with much information.
If so a link to the threads would be appreciated

I am curious about the average day if there is such a thing of a cargo pilot. I am a bit of a night owl and am not that keen on hoards of holidaymakers so thought it might be the ideal area of aviation for me.

Thanks in advance ladies and gentlemen

[vipero]

Same as per other pilots, but no cabin crews and 99% of times boarding almost completed when you arrive at the aircraft.

Ah: you do the dishes ;)

[Boingboingdriver]

I loved flying cargo...nothing better than overnight sleeping in a FBO meeting room floor, waking up at 5 am, have a cup of coffee and cigarette,tie your shoes while taxiing cause you were bit in a rush..spent 10 minutes looking for milk by the popcorn machine(your dinner maker)..and then AHHHHH taking off in a clear morning and checking the long lines of car lights commuting to work:ok:

I flew turboprops single pilot/no autopilot(Be1900s/SA227),it was a blast most of the time..sometimes the weather was bit tricky as flights were in the US midwest at low levels..in that aspect 737 700 NG at 41000..nice:-)

So i think 747 cargo must be quite a blast!!! :E

great school for start ..youll enjoy the shiny uniform later,and when you made it youll look behind with a feeling of luck and happy moments..

[Loadshifta]

The life of a cargo pilot around Europe is probably much the same as elsewhere. Most freight flying is done at night, either postal services or the express parcels businesses. There are advantages, not too much in the way of of ATC delays, though some airports have night time curfews. As most integrators want their flights to leave close to the curfew it can add to the already intense pressures to operate on time. There is also a strange desire to depart on time with very little pressure on whether you arrive on time. A 10minute delay will mean penalties even if you arrive early!
The lack of additional crewmembers is not really a problem, unless you only started flying to meet the mindless sweeties who think the captain is the route to a life of idle luxury! You may even have someone make you a cup of tea, but most of the F/Es and loadies I've met tend not to
be as kind on the eye as in pax flying!
The biggest downside is the hours or so in some crewroom together with up to 20-30 other crewmembers. The only topic of conversation then seems to be how crap the management is, the maintenance is, the hotels are ad nauseum. Another downside is that most freighters tend to be old passenger types converted to cargo. What then happens if you find yourself looking for work in a downturn such as now, you don't have a type that is currently used by anyone who may be hiring.
On the positive side again, if you night / day stop the hotels tend to be of good standard, (crappy hotels tend not to be able to cope with night time cleaning etc, and most operators understand the need for decent rest) The time off can be better than pax flying. You also tend to get some time to discover some of the destinations. Rome is good, Luton maybe not...
It is a completely different lifestyle, some cant cope with the nights, most eventually move on to flying pax. It can however be a most rewarding time if you have the right attitude and enjoy what it has to offer.

[yanafrica]

Use to fly cargo now flying SLF. thinking of going back to cargo .
as said previously if you don't mind the night shift no problems,.
and and and ........boxes never complain have fun !!!

[S44]

Can't speak for shorthaul freight.... but longhaul freight is excellent. The 744F upper deck configured as crew rest with separate bunks, no locked flight deck door. Quite a few late night departures, but then there are with pax long haul, so no real difference. Many sectors have relief crew on board... hotels generally excellent, fairly long trips but plenty of time at home....oh and on arrival at the airport get collected in a Merc limo and not a crew bus!!

[CargoMatatu]

You know, that's too big a question!

It's like asking "what is life like?"

Everyone seems to concentrate on the short to medium haul regional night freight when asking and answering this question. That is by no means the accurate measure of the freight world := .

The freight side of aviation is world-wide, 24/7, and I have been lucky enough to spend almost all my adult life in the long haul wide-body world. :ok:

And, in that respect, it is no different from the pax world, except there are no flight attendants and no whining slf :ok:

There are nearly as many tailor-made, straight off the production line freighters as there are converted ex-pax birds.

Whether air-dropping relief supplies from an L-382 in Africa, or taking a nice shiny 744F to Singapore, it's all good :D .

[eliptic]

How many crew members in a cargo flight as ex HK-Europe?




eliptic,

Depends on the time of departure and the time of year.... 4 pilots, sometimes only 3

Thanks S44:)

[S44]

eliptic,

Depends on the time of departure and the time of year.... 4 pilots, sometimes only 3

[superspotter]

"And, in that respect, it is no different from the pax world, except there are no flight attendants and no whining slf "

As a loadie though, I have to put up with moaning flight crew;)

...and they wake me up, banging the catering trays etc....

[profot]

Thanks guys, it sounds perfect for me, I come from a shipping background where I am woken up in the middle of the night smoke a cigarette( given those up now) grab a bad coffee and then work hard for a few hours before getting a crap wage and even worse accomodation, call me a sicko but I love that lifestyle.

Definitely decided that is the best use of my newly acquired flying qualfications, now I need the world to sort out their financial problems so I can get a job.

[vipatr]

avoid farnair!!!... trust me

[profot]

Care to divulge?

I was planning on taking any job that pays me but that is typical newbie desperation that I am trying to keep under control

[superspotter]

:ok::ok:
It's the only thing we get to first!

[maxfly1]

My flying was any time of day or night. It depended on aircraft arrival, fueling and loading-unloading. Duty days were long, but it was worth it. Longest flight was 12 hours. since there are no passengers, you can get up any time to go to the bathroom, stretch you legs, exercise and fix something to eat. And with Heavy crews go to sleep on the bunk. And then you have about 3-4 days in 5 star hotel in an interesting place.
Pay was not great but it was the best time in my life.
Then you get furloughed.

[LarryDCableGuy]

Everything that Maxfly1 said is true except the last 2 sentences. (for me)

[dada]

if your a pilot for janes aviation you have the life of really. no work in over a year!

[onehotflyer]

Its great, no painful pax. I work for a great bunch, beautiful planes, well looked after, aircraft and crew, not worked too hard. No cramming into a bus with 20 other crew. Usually a nice car to take us to and from the airport since there is only 2 or 3 of us. Although like in any airline there are still some old women who complain but then they complain about everything anyway.
I couldnt ask for more. Love it!

[BetpumpS]

From 21-24, I spent the best years of my life on the 742-F. Moved to the 744 and regretted it ever since.

Salt-of-the-earth pilots. Constant laugh in the cockpit. No locked door. Playing keepy-uppy with a football on the top deck.

Cargo pilots on 74s playing games of Hide-and-seek on the main deck are unfounded rumours :}

[davidaz68]

Flying cargo can be very different from one airline to another.
I flew MD11 for alitalia from 2001 till january 09. The last 5 years we only fly the freighter and it's been the best experience i had in my 20 years of flying. On the minus side, there was a very uncertain roster with very frequent delays, change of schedule and cancellations and many days out of home, but, if you don't mind this and also flying at night (remember: sun down-gear up / sun up gear down) it's the best job of all.

[act700]

As far as not having flight attendants, that's actually better.

I'll explain: You get to chase and b...g other airlines flight attendants, pi$$ing off their flight crews, and then go on your way. No awkward 12 hour flight back if something goes south (in bed)!!
:O

[BetpumpS]

act700,

Oh so so true.

Hey wait a minute, you weren't based out in Dubai in 2004 were ya!

[Parson]

For 'short haul' cargo flying around UK/Europe, what is the days on/off situation and what are the actual hours worked on a typical night (if there is such)?

ta

[sapco2]

I've spent the majority of my career (22 years) flying passengers, long haul & short haul, mainly in the charter industry. Had some great fun at times, and done some varied & interesting work but overall give me a freight pilot's job any day! I do miss the hosties if I'm honest... but that's just about all I miss!

Been flying freight now for over 7 years and seen a huge turnover of pilots in the company I work for, mostly from guys who just want to get a variety of experience under their belts. .

Unless you're one of those who really can't cope with night work, you should find freight flying less fatiguing than working in the passenger industry. You probably won't need to set an alarm clock ever again, and in my case I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually worked into discretion over 7 years. My flights hours average about 300 PA (far less than the hours I used to fly).

It's horses-for-courses; life is "one big-book", and you'll need to cram as many interesting chapters in that book as you can!

[leewan]

Playing keepy-uppy with a football on the top deck.
Make sure the medi-kit onboard is well stocked.:ouch:

Speaking of freighter crew, I arrived a 744F from a prominent european carrier and saw the 2/3 of the flight crew wearing polo T-shirts when they came down. Do any of you guys have a relaxed dress code when flying ? I mean, nobody's gonna see and complain. It makes sense to wear something comfortable for the flight when you are the only one's aboard.
And based on my experience, freighter flight crews are the most down to earth flight crews I've ever met. No airs, no stiff courtesies. Just my observation. This goes regardless of airline or nationality. It's like comparing truck drivers to limo drivers. Is it more "liberating" flying freighter than pax ?

[onehotflyer]

T-shirts, 1st class BA PJs our guys fly in them all.

[Storminnorm]

One should try to maintain some sartorial elegance at all times.
Even if one is simply hauling fruit and flowers around.
It's no excuse to adopt a sloppy attitude to appearance.

And one should buy a hammock to rig across the aircraft if one
is over-come by fatigue at any point.
Can't do that with a cabin full of SLF.

[ishe]

must be a pretty decent outfit you are with Sapco2, i can count on 2 hands the time we havent had to do a CDR in the last 3 years, but the fun outweighs anything else

[JW411]

Why in God's name do you want to BUY a hammock when you can have a cargo net for free and you are less likely to fall out of a cargo net.

Mind you, in my Belfast days we had a six-bunk bedroom downstairs so neither hammock nor net was needed.

[non iron]

The public`s perception of cargo pilots` abilities hasn`t recovered from Top Guns` Tom Cruise being threatened with having to fly " plastic dog turds out of Hong Kong ", as a substandard pilot who`d better shape up.
Well, apart from never having seen a turd courtesy of a plastic dog, it is still the case.
As an old boss put it " this a very gutsy job".

Not for everyone the hours, the broken sleep - hotel guests dragging suitcases away bumping doors just before normal office hours begin and partying once finished - but it can be very rewarding professionally operating over areas that are closed until morning.

The sort of planning and airmanship that the bulk of pax crews really don`t need to worry about, albeit perfectly competent with.

I think l`ve run out of apostrophes. :)

[CR2]

From car thru ops thru security/immigration.. uniform, tie, polished shoes etc. as soon as on board, all off and dress according to temperature... shorts/t-shirt for example. Closed up & ready to go, sweatshirt, PJ bottoms, flip-flops.. Arrival... depends.. will usually offload as dressed (PJ bottoms etc), then monkey suit on to go through customs etc etc to the hotel

Once spent 30h loading a 74F in BCN due to various incompetencies (not all Iberia's fault), no way I'm going to even try and look pretty in such a situation.

[non iron]

Nah, go on, go on, go on.

Bet you would ! :)

[muduckace]

As a young man I Spent 5 years as a MX Rep on both PAX and Freight.

Boiling a batch of asparagus out of the 200k lbs we pulled out of Peru for a special crew meal.

Sleeping, eating, streching out, sliding a plastic spoon in the door pressure seal to have a cigarette to not offend the non smokers.

Waking up in a t-shirt and boxers and eating breakfast in the cockpit to the best view possible of a sunrise.

Alot of the pilots I worked with took the stuffy uniform off for an 8-10 hr flight and we became just a crew of guys that enjoyed the serenity of living the life of a bird that flys FREE of the constraints of land based expectations.

For me getting married put a kink in that chain, but the trade off was worth it.

For a young or un married man... Freight flying is great..

Having to do pax charters was horrible in comparison.

Having said that I have to thank the loadmasters and pilots who were there for me to hold a flashlight during the odd time I actually had to work.

Hope this added to the tribal knowledge of the ACMI freight WORLD.

[BelArgUSA]

I retired from a long career with airlines - 1969 through 2008...
PanAm until 1991 - 707/727/747 - Then contract pilot (747) worldwide.
xxx
My favorite contract has been flying cargo with Cargolux 1992 for 6 months.
Superb operation. Was on their older 747-271C airplanes. Based LUX.
All pilots I knew flying such type operations (747F) were by far quite happy.
Examples - JAL Cargo, NCA, KAL, SIA, CX, LH Cargo...
xxx
:ok:
Happy contrails

[smo-kin-hole]

I did pax 135 commuter airline work in a turboprop. I nearly died of boredom. After the first six months, I didn't even need an approach plate. Then they folded and I wound up in a C402. I learned ALOT about single pilot IFR in a very short time. Now I do the same job in a jet across three countries.

If you dislike terminals as much as I do and can't see yourself dealing with passengers and you are a hands-on outdoors worker instead of a uniform-wearing pilot, freight is fun. But the night shift will age you prematurely, and the planes are old and sometimes underequipped. At least it stays interesting.

It really doesn't matter all that much after awhile what you are in. Quality
of life and your family matter more. Create a life as well as a career.
Simple, but not so obvious. And not so easy.:=

[non iron]

Nobody likes terminals, and the associated bulls**t, but, alas, that is what the bulk of crew have to put with and no choice.
Most have to wear uniforms.

Most have to compromise on quality of life.

The problems began when accountants offloaded onto bookeepers, `cos they were now too important to be bothered by minutia.
The old story about the cost of everything and the value of nothing is set to live long.

[L-38]

Times are a change'in. . . . . Gone are the pre 9/11 days when a limo would take you directly to the foot of the freighter's boarding stairs from your hotel . . . . Nothing like blasting out of LAX on a bright sunrise morning while enroute to the South Pacific, and tuning in the ADF so as to listen to traffic reports of all the congested hordes, behind and below, beginning their mundane commutes to their desk jobs. . Count the blessings, what a life on the freighters! . . . . Complaints of annoying change ups, and uncertain schedules also added spice, if a game was made of it. . . . Even younger days of flying old converted aircraft - where the corroding toilets were replaced with trash bag lined cardboard box's filled with kitty litter, was an adventure - especially in retrospect when experienced with today's modern freighter. Too bad such a career could not last forever

[scallaghan]

I am relatively low hour'd in the UK who is flexible and want to work for a small / medium size freight operators to get proper commercial experience needed and be realistic.

Had some advise of trying small operators flying heralds etc from experienced pilots, but many of those operators seem to have gone at least in the UK. So perhaps thinking the medium / larger players like TNT.

Who are the best operators around to try these days in EMEA and Asia or perhaps website that lists them :)

[Da Do Ron Ron]

Don't think you'll find many jobs flying 'heralds' around

[CR2]

Do any Heralds still exist ???? :uhoh: Haven't heard that name in errr... a long long time. :confused:

[TimeOnTarget]

I have learned to be patient with the general public when the inevitable questions arise about flying cargo. I wish that I had a dollar, no check that, a Euro for every time somebody asked me if I ever aspired to fly commercially!!

I think that the lifestyle at my company is pretty tough though as we are on the road for up to 21 days each month. The constantly changing sleep cycle is the real demon. I have only flown long haul for about a 14 months, and I am now furloughed. But I can say that it is nice to sleep in my bed again each night.

I really enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere on the upper flight deck, and the ability to move around and go to the bunk for rest.

My company flies all over the world and our 744f are pretty damned nice AFAIAC.

Look smart when in public-be smart when in private

[r1flyguy35]

First Job, fresh out of training from the UK is Cargo, loving every minute of it, flying around Asia in a wide body jet!

Nights, not a problem if I stay on UK time :eek:

schedules have been easy to maintain in the whole, loads are good, hotels, comfortable, days off aplenty, pay :ok:

Can't remove the :) from my face.

[beastman787]

Hey,

Cargo sounds like a rewarding route! I'm fresh out of training and have somehow found myself with a job offer on a 742F :} . Im from the uk and the job is long haul, based from greece with a new start up, I'm young and not married so it seems ideal.

The only worry is that I have been asked to contribute a heavy sum towards the initial TR. This coupled with the relocation and crippling debt is giving me last minute doubts. Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, the salary is adequate and I realise alot of guys would kill to be in this position. My main concern is that the current 'climate' could leave me high and dry if the company went under in 6 months time.

Personally I think the flying experience alone would be too valuable to miss, I just wondered if there are any pilots out there who may have been through similar situations that could offer me any wisdom? :ok:

Cheers, BM

[Zurg]

Hi Beastman,

I'd be really cautious, cargo worldwide is taking a hammering.
A start up, using old uneconomical equipment, asking you for money for a type rating that's unlikely to be of any use to you again. And in the current climate they can't get type rated guys?

I can appreciate how exciting a job offer now must be, but do temper it with some cold hard realism.

(I'm lucky enough to be flying the -400 for an Asian freight operator)

Best of luck.

[beastman787]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the advice.

Just in addition, they have written a further TR (A330) into my contract at no cost, which is to replace the 747-200 when it arrives. They are insinuating that the 742f is a temporary measure until the new aircraft is delivered.

[igarratt]

Could i please ask, especially if there are any recent new to cargo / recent qualified is there a general practice of how you get into the cargo world ?

I wondered if it was found more that passenger pilots moved over to cargo or if it was more likely to have new qualified doing cargo either to stay or awaiting an opening with the passenger airlines.

The cargo world seems to have more of an attraction than passengers to me at the moment.

My other question was with demand, maybe foolishly but i assume there is far more passenger pilot positions (no vacances) than freight ? anyone offer any ideas on numbers or percentages. Would it be harder for me to get a job in cargo being new fatpl or passenger.

If there is any new qualified pilots that have joined cargo be interested in how you found your way in, any differences in requirements / experience, advantages of being a noob http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif), though any info on how you came to be a cargo pilot.

masocistic i may be but there is attraction to flying handme downs if they are still useds, 707's' 727' even role me out a trident lol, maybe i'm just used to training planes with bits falling off when you breath at them he he
I like to phisicaly fly the plane.

Any advice, background, experience and your thoughts would be very much appreciated.

I'm currently liverpool/manchester based, with not a lot of cargo operators i can spy, is the south more popular ? is there a list of uk operators, fleet, a/c, min job req maybe ?

cheers Ian

[Zurg]

There's not some mythical split between cargo and pax operations.
All require the same licences, a short haul turboprop pax operation will probably be looking for exactly the same experience from pilots as it's cargo equivalent.
Just like the passenger airlines, cargo airlines vary from turboprops operating locally, to the heavies operating long haul around the world. Many of the majors have their cargo aircraft operated by the same crews who next trip will be taking 400 people on their holidays.
No secrets or special deals, simply jobs advertised and requirements stated. This has all been said before by other posters.

As for lifestyle, I currently have the best pay I have ever received and the best time off. But, long periods down route, away from home and the most boring flying I've ever done. (2 long haul passenger airlines prior to this freight job.)

Beastman, best of luck with it, all airlines did have to be risky start ups once.

Sorry but I have to say it, igarratt, my 12 year old daughter writes and spells considerably better than you.
Take some pride in what you put your name to, there's still those covering letters to write!

[Roadtrip]

Paying some scumbag start-up for your training is a really big red flag. Especially on a 74 classic. The -200 type rating is different from the -400 and next time fuel spikes, the -200s are beercans and you've just paid a lot of money for a worthless type rating. Of course the company officers are probably making personal kickbacks.

My advice is "don't do it." Take a look at what's happening to Midex. Started out fairly benign, but now rostering and the company are sliding into the abyss.

[Flying Mechanic]

yep been warying of outfits like this, also no A330 has been converted to a freighter yet either.

[betpump5]

I became a FO on the 742F at 21 and left at 25. Without doubt, this was the best time of my life. Pay was significantly less (for me at least) than an equivalent colleague on the passenger side.

The pilots I flew with were the most down-to-earth guys I'd ever flown with. I don't want to seem like I'm putting anyone down (on the air-freight side or road-freight side) but the banter that went on was just like the banter you'd see between a group of lorry-drivers sitting in a greasy spoon.

Excellent personalities and great times in weird and wonderful places away from the tourist trap locations. Very unsociable hours but you get a lot of time off. My average was about 450 hours per year so quite a lot less than pax pilots. Luckily, I had already become un-frozen after flying 732s in the Philippines.. So keep that in mind - especially if you are starting out in a 74X-F.

The cargo industry is taking a hammering and it may take you 3 years before you become unfrozen with 400-500 hours a year.

My advice is to think very very carefully about paying for the TR on a 74X-F. Don't be blinded by the status of being a "Jumbo-Jet" pilot straight after training. I know it's hard but being a start-up airline and being asked to pay for a rating definitely sends alarm bells ringing in my ears.

On one hand, moving to the 744 is my biggest regret. The flying is without doubt the most boring I have ever done. I would gladly move back to the 742F tomorrow with a significant pay reduction. On the other hand, the stability (lack-off) is frightening.

[HAWK21M]

Out here Cargo operators are def doing well unlike the Pax counterparts.
Apart from a less stress free operation,if the Aircraft are modern & night flying is no burden.Freighter ops is a good option.
regds
MEL.

[blueline_climb]

I don't fly medium or long haul cargo, but I do short haul in a turboprop. I really have no complaints other than how it can get boring going to the same 2 cities every night, but the schedule is awesome and flying a turboprop in your sweats and a tshirt is always very comfortable.

My day:

9:00pm: Arrive @ airport. Check weather, notams, make and file a flight plan, load the first batch of freight that arrived in a truck with the loadmaster and other pilot.

9:30pm: Relax, watch tv, have a coffee or some supper

10:00pm: Fax arrives with the total weights for the only 2 cities we fly to. Enter in weight and balance on the OFP, determine fuel load, call the fueller.

10:15pm: 2nd truck arrives with the last half of the load. Load up the aircraft, get a clearance.

10:30pm: Departure time off to the first destination.

12:00am: Arrival into destination, unload freight for that city, reload freight for originating city. Coffee time

12:45am: Depart for next destination

1:30am: Arrival into destination, unload freight for that city, reload freight for originating city. Coffee and snack time

2:00am: Depart for home base

3:30am: Arrival into home base, unload aircraft. Transfer freight loaded into seperate van

4:00am: Aircraft secured, pilots go home. Loader drives van with transfers to the transfer carrier (separate cargo company).

Total duty day: 7 hours
Total flight time: 4.5 hours

Schedule - Monday to Thursday nights

[Smiler737]

Hi all,
Just a quick question, on average a pax carrying pilot will fly near on max hours a year depending on who they fly for. I was just wondering how many hours you guys fly a year. I know it will probably be different for who you work for, and if its long/medium or short haul, but im just after a rough idea.

Thanks in advance
Smiler

[wall-e]

Is there any Aerologic pilot in this thread willing to shear his experience?

[DBate]

@Smiler737:

Flying for a long haul cargo airline. Switched from the passanger mainline in mid 2007, so the hours that year are not really representative.

2008: 716:29 hours
2009 (up to this day): 316:12 hours

Due to the crisis there is less flying to do this year - unfortunately that does not mean that we have more days off. It's just more days hanging around at some 'exotic' destinations...

Regards,
DBate

[SteveEarle]

Short haul cargo around Europe for last 8 years, average 300 hrs per year flying time. Duty hrs considerably longer but good time off between trips. ( When airline fully crewed! )