One less DC-3 in the World

[captainspeaking]

Four Star Air Cargo (US Virgin Islands / Puerto Rico) lost one of their six DC-3Cs yesterday. A cockpit fire whilst taxiing, apparrently. All crew evacuated safely. Shame about the Dak.

US Virgin Islands: Four Star Air Cargo (http://www.airlineupdate.com/airlines/airline_profiles/airlines_usvirgin/fourstar.htm)

[captainspeaking]

One Less DC-3 in the World

My emanuensis has said that I should have said "One fewer DC-3s ..."

Either way, without an office ... Four Star Air Cargo accident - 26 April 2009 (http://www.airlineupdate.com/airlines/airline_extra/accidents/accident_reports/4starac_26apr09.htm)

... that Dak is going nowhere!

[jdanneel]

too bad, one minute of silence required, anybody who knows how many are still flying ?

[Avitor]

These aircraft have a distinguished history, among some of the valiant operations were supplying the Chindits, behind the lines in the Burma jungle, on D Day, towing gliders, the Berlin airlift and much more.
Many will be aware that Jimmy Edwards, the British comedian was a WW2 pilot on Dakotas.

[Sharpie]

Was it a real DC3 or a C47.

[Avman]

C-47A c/n 10267

[captainspeaking]

Was idly wondering whether a good cut-and-shut artist could fix it. There must be a couple of gash DC-3 front-ends knocking around; a little judicious welding and some body panel filler and *bish bosh* good as new.

[er340790]

Last flights on a Dak were courtesy of Servivensa down in Venezuela in mid-90s. Puerto Ordaz / Angel Falls areas. Great stuff.

Anyone know if the original Douglas machine tools survived or who now has the production rights? I think Viking in BC have the production rights to most of the old DeHavilland designs.

Wishful thinking, but not hard to imagine a new one with a couple of modern P&W or AiR turbo-props, circa 70 years on.

[Capot]

My first boss claimed a record of 84 SOB in his RAF Dakota when flying the Hump in WWII and evacuating the locals in emergency circumstances. I know it's possible, with the conditions he described, ie no seats, err...let's say "reduced" adherence to safety concerns incl staying within MTOW, and a quite low average passenger size and weight, incl children, and no baggage.

But does anyone know of a higher figure?

[Pugilistic Animus]

Poor little baby ---:(
I must fly the DC-3 before they stop flying them

anyone know where to get a few lessons in the USA on that old lady? ---the older pilots were so fortunate to have been given so much time on such simple honest ships:)

I love DC -3's:ok:

PA

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Damn shame to see another one going the wrong way. On the day that the last F-22 is retired to the boneyard in Arizona the pilot will be collected by a C-47.

Anyway, in case anybody is wondering if they ever flew that one ...

prior ro be N135FS is was N58296, previously FAP204 of the Honduras AF, and originally 42-24405.

[flugholm]

>Wishful thinking, but not hard to imagine a new one with a couple of modern P&W or AiR turbo-props, circa 70 years on.

I think these guys (http://www.baslerturbo.com/) will happily sell zero-timed (well, almost) DC-3s. Fantastic machines!

[Robert Campbell]

I think a new front end is not out of the question. Depends on how much time and corrosion on the airframe.

The early DC-3s were better at resisting corrosion than the C-47s. The early birds were made from the same aluminum alloy; the C-47s (depending on when and where they were build used different alloys for the skin and the stringers. Some had major electrolysis problems.

At Otis Spunkmeyer we had a C-41, the first military DC-3 which was built in 1938 and a 1945 C-47 (DC-3C) which had only 9300 hrs on it in 1995 when I started flying it. In 1997, we discovered major corrosion in the C-47 while the C-41 had almost none.

I think Bassler probably has the type certificate or knows where it is.

This is from my website.
Douglas DC-3s - Otis Spunkmeyer and Transwest Air Express (http://www.chamoismoon.com/DC-3_2.html)

[heli-cal]

Wow! What a fabulous revamp of an incredible aircraft! :ok:

Thanks for posting the link.

[MarkerInbound]

And these guys can get you a type or SIC rating.

The DC-3 Network - Website for DC-3 Pilots & Enthusiasts (http://www.thedc-3network.com/)

[stevef]

I wonder what caused that?. The only flammable liquids forward of the cockpit bulkhead are 06A in a de-icer tank (unlikely, given the aircraft's location), small amounts of hydraulic fluid in the cowl flap selectors lines and the engine, hydraulic & Avgas fluids in instrument lines. :confused:
Looks repairable from the photo though, with a nose section from another aircraft.

[aseanaero]

http://www.airlineupdate.com/images/airline_images/airlines_usvirginis/aircraft/4stardc3.jpg

I wonder what caused that?. The only flammable liquids forward of the cockpit bulkhead are 06A in a de-icer tank (unlikely, given the aircraft's location), small amounts of hydraulic fluid in the cowl flap selectors lines and the engine, hydraulic & Avgas fluids in instrument lines.

Good question , for the nose to melt off it would have to be a raging fire.

Jerry can of fuel near the cockpit and a spark ?

Looks repairable from the photo though, with a nose section from another aircraft.

With the rapidly declining market value of a DC3 airframe it's cheaper to just swap the good bits onto another airframe , too much work to save this one. Game over .

.

[captainspeaking]

There might also be an opportunity for an interesting hybrid. This week's Pprune competition is: "Identify a Suitable Non-Dak Nose for Grafting onto N136FS"

Points will be awarded for aesthetic appeal, innovation and originality.

The winner receives nothing but the admiration and aprobation of his peers.

[ABUKABOY]

Possible sources of fire?

Depending on how modified this aircraft was from original, just inside that open crew door on the left behind the pilot's seat were the two carbon-pile generator regulators which were almost impossible to balance. All of the load would sometimes go on the one, and the only way to get the other one woken up was to switch off the one taking all the load. They could get quite hot, and must be considered a source of fire in this case, I would have thought.
Also the two aircraft batteries, conventional wet-cell, are mounted below the cockpit floor, so plenty of possibilities, IMHO.

[MarkerInbound]

It looks like the batteries have been dropped, the opening in the gray area below the "crew" door.

The hydraulic res is visibile behind the F/Os seat with scorching at the bottom. The hand pump, gear lever and flap lever would have plenty of 5606 under pressure by the F/Os seat along with the cowl flap selectors on the side wall. The fuel pressure gauge would have gas under pressure going to the instrument panel and the oil pressure gauge has 5606 in it, also under pressure. Lots of fuel once the fire starts, what started it will be interesting.

[avionic type]

Do the fuel pressure gauges still operate with avgas ? I thought they had been modified years ago to another system under some instruction from the F.A.A . the Daks I worked on in the 50s still had the old system but I'm willng to hear from people who still work on them if it is a figment of my imagination:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[stevef]

All the Daks I've worked on have direct reading fuel pressure gauges. I had a cockpit line off last year in fact. I'm not saying that transducers aren't fitted, just that I've never seen one.

[BladePilot]

Check this out!

Air Atlantique Douglas DC-3 taxiing at Durham Tees Valley - YouTube - Truveo Video Search (http://in.truveo.com/Air-Atlantique-Douglas-DC3-taxiing-at-Durham-Tees/id/4134113518)

[Flight Detent]

Hey...Robert Campbell...

You really seem to be an experienced guy around the C-47.

Question that's been bugging me for some time:

Have you ever seen a C-47 with the dual cargo doors on BOTH sides of the fuselage?

I saw one a few years ago, but could not believe they ever manufactured them!

Oh...I saw it hanging up in the Boeing Air Museum auditorium in Seattle.

Cheers...FD...:)

[stevef]

I think the Seattle Museum aircraft is a DC3, not a C47. They usually had a single door on either side: one for pax, one for baggage.
I've never heard of a left & right set of dual cargo doors; can't see there being enough strength in the fuselage structure to handle it. :)

[smo-kin-hole]

Best option would be an all-glazed nose like a B-29 or a Heinkel 111. Easier to build from scratch than grafting it on. Imagine the bird-strikes!
:eek:....:(....:yuk:

[Flight Detent]

Hi stevef...

Thanks for your response..but no, it was definitely a C-47, with the large dual opening cargo doors on both sides...

that's why I ask the question, for the same reasons you stated!

Many years ago, I was a qualified Airframe Mechanic on RAAF C-47s, we didn't have any DC-3s.
From that point of view, I too know (or knew) them well...

Cheers...FD...:)

[Storminnorm]

I reckon that old bird could be fixed in a couple of months!
Let me know if you need a hand.
I'm sure that there are loads of old bits lying around, but where???

[spInY nORmAn]

Try Buffalo Airways - they have several DC-3s in service and a large inventory of parts (including a partial DC-3 for sale in Alberta, Canada).

Buffalo Airways - Your source for all of your aviation transportation needs (http://www.buffaloairways.com/)

Spiny

[FourStar]

Does anyone know what is happening with N136FS? Is it scrapped, being used for spares, or being repaired?