F-8 Crusader Flew with Wings Folded!

[Agaricus bisporus]

Reposted due to my error; incorrectly identifying the aircraft in question...

From Wikipedia...

Quote:
However, the aircraft did possess some amazing capabilities, as proven when several hapless Crusader pilots took off from Da Nang with the wings folded. The Crusader was capable of flying in this state, though the pilot would be required to lose weight by ejecting stores and fuel, and then return to the carrier.
Anyone able to put some meat on those bones?

Such as WHYYYY???
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[Dan Winterland]

Human error.

When Boeing were planning the 777, they were going to offer a version with folding wingtips so that it could fit onto narrow gates. Some people said it was a bad idea because one day 777 would try and get airborne with the wingtip folded. An american pilot wrote in to Flight magazine and agreed. He said that once people got used to seeing airliners taxying around with wingtips folded, no one would think it unsual and it would probably lead to one trying to get airrborne in such a state. He was writng from a position of authority as he had actually got airborne from a carrier in an A7 with the wings folded - and managed to land safely back on the deck!

[evansb]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/F-8wingsfolded67.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/XF8U-3_2_from_Vought.jpg

[chiglet]

AFAIR, a VS Attacker launched [from a Carrier?] with a folded wing. It was successfully landed, and the pilt got a ?BE

[RJ Kanary]

I guess that variable incidence wing idea REALLY worked. :)

Vought F-8 Crusader (http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/f8crus.htm)

RJ

[Brian Abraham]

Agaricus, I presume you kept my links given on the previous thread which gave examples of the F-8 (not Bearcat but Crusader) flying with wings folded. Regarding the title to this thread the F-108 was a proposed USAF Long-Range Interceptor and later proposed as a escort fighter for the B-70. Only a mock up was built.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Xf-108.png/800px-Xf-108.png


Recovered from old thread by the Mods:
Yes it did happen and recall reading the incident write up in the US Navy "Approach" magazine complete with photos, but details why escape me. Guessing it was a simple case of take off with the wing fold unlocked. Seems it happened more than once, here is one tale F8 Wings Folded | News | Armor Journal (http://www.flightjournal.com/ME2/Sites/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=36D96CB0957843589FDDF25A7CDC2FF1&SiteID=20EB32E87F7D4A9C98F2980F81E922D1)
Also here MiG Master: The Story of the F-8 ... - Google Book Search (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=-v7HMpRYYXUC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=f-8+wing+folded&source=bl&ots=3wxsauzjvG&sig=oYwP4Y-ieZJguqk7YD7vziSeeCk&hl=en&ei=Rb3xSdTvJoPs7AOLw83IDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4)

[Agaricus bisporus]

Thanks Brian, but no, I lost them when I tried to correct the error the first time.

I'd never have thought so much upset might be caused by a slip of attention whilst calling the aeroplane by it's correct name but getting the designator wrong. (As the F104 had virtually no wings at all, let alone folding ones it's abundantly clear that I wasn't referring to that...) I'd been looking at F104s previously, and had the Century series in my head when I came to make this post. hence the One Oh.

Silly Billy!

[spekesoftly]

He said that once people got used to seeing airliners taxying around with wingtips folded, no one would think it unsual and it would probably lead to one trying to get airrborne in such a state.Perhaps a double fold in the wing, like the Gannet, would have been safer. Such ugliness would always be thought of as unusual! :p

[BOAC]

Oi! You saying the Gannet was ugly...?:rolleyes:

[Double Zero]

Whatever it says about aerodynamics, it wouldn't seem to say much good about the deck crew discipline; unless the pilot had been 'seeing' my wife, in which case I might happily give him a cheerful thumbs up to launch with wings folded !

I read a story about F-8's, where the experienced pilot hosting a meeting of pilots said " everyone who's had to bang out of one, stay standing, the rest sit down "; then " eyeryone one who's done it twice " - he got to 3 times and still a fair few standing.

[nacluv]

What amazes me about Brian's photo, just as much as the lack of 'usable' wing area, is the compromise which must have been caused to the airflow around the rudder by the apparent proximity of the wing tips. It must have been a real bugger to fly in that state from every aspect!

[603DX]

A variation on the wings-folded theme occurred in the late seventies, when a USAF Phantom from Upper Heyford hit one of the guy wires of the Caldbeck TV mast near Carlisle.

The steel cable snagged on the "dogtooth" in one wing leading edge, at the point where the outer wing folds for carrier operations. It sliced fairly cleanly through the wing, completely severing the outer panel which fell to the ground where it was recovered by the transmitter station staff. Its "star-and-bars" marking left no doubts as to ownership!

The aircraft was reported by an eyewitness to have carried out a full roll after the collision, and then limped back to its base in Oxfordshire, a flight of about 200 miles, during which the crew presumably had time to concoct excuses. The asymmetry introduced by the loss of a substantial wing area and aileron on one side only must have made it an interesting journey, with a rather fraught landing to follow.

[Schiller]

I was told of a USMC Phantom that got airborne one dark night with folded wings. The tower rapidly filled up with everyone from the station commander to the ATC cat, all offering advice. The unfortunate pilot made a very creditable job of struggling round the circuit on rudder alone (no ailerons) before landing with his wheels up.

PS How does a Marine pilot know he's landed with his wheels up?
He needs afterburner to taxi.

[gibbo568]

603DX, the ailerons of a Phantom are INBOARD of the dihederal break, so he still had full aileron and spoiler controls. His problem really began when he tried to lower the flaps, which included the outer wing LE flaps, and that caused a utility circuit hydraulic failure! IIRC the crew ejected and survived.

[WHBM]

When Boeing were planning the 777, they were going to offer a version with folding wingtips so that it could fit onto narrow gates.
This arose because when the 777 was being designed (around 1990) it was envisaged as replacing the DC-10/L1011 then deployed on routes like Chicago to Los Angeles, and several US domestic terminals had sized their gates so the old big trijets would just fit. As a result it was not much of a fold envisaged to fit its larger wingspan, just a few feet, which would probably have just made it like a big winglet if you took off with it (OK all aerodynamicists, there's a tad of hyperbole there).

In the event by the time the 777 came into service its usage had changed completely to long-haul, and those trunk US routes had gone back to narrowbodies, so the squeeze at the terminal wasn't needed. There are no 777s actually in US domestic configuration.

[603DX]

gibbo568: You are right about the ailerons. Now that you have pointed it out, I dimly recall seeing a photo of the station staff holding the outer wing panel in the vertical position, and there were no "flappy hinged bits" visible.

I'm very interested to hear about the crew ejecting, as this raises the question of where this happened. Was it over water, because a Phantom would make a nasty mess if abandoned over land in the Oxford area! The feedback I received at the time was that it landed OK at Upper Heyford, and that they had it repaired and in the air again within a week or so.

[27mm]

IIRC, at least one F4 has been successfully landed with the wings folded and at least one F4 (RAF) has been lost taking off with them folded....

[gibbo568]

603DX, regarding the Phantom, I can't find any information about it, and it was a long time ago. I had passed out of Halton in 1977, the year of the incident, as an A.Eng Tech A/P. I did originally think that the airfield was Alconbury, but I could be getting mixed up with the 111Sqdn F4K which had the radome open in flight. That was 1980.
I have posted a photo of a 'broken' F4 in the past, it was 43Sqdn XT866. I was involved in an aileron change the night before that aircraft had its little accident! Yes, they do make a mess!
By the way, is this ntlPA - Sites Viewer (http://www.ntlpa.org.uk/html/sites_vr_6.html) the photo you saw?

[603DX]

gibbo568, not quite the same photo, the one I saw showed the other side of the wing section, with part of the "star-and-bar" clearly visible.

My feedback gen on this incident came from the mast owners, who were obviously in contact with the USAF over the damage to their structure. It very nearly brought the whole 1000ft mast down!