State of Virgin Blue [Archive]

Fly_by_wire

25th Apr 2009, 02:26

Tigers latest promotion is starting to look like ryan air prices:

Domestic Flights

(from Melbourne) Price Fly period
Adelaide FREE + $22.08* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Canberra FREE + $31.88* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Hobart FREE + $23.11* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Launceston FREE + $24.51* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Sydney FREE + $25.51* 03 Jul 09 - 30 Sep 09
Gold Coast from A$78* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Mackay from A$98* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Rockhampton from A$98* 02 Jun 09 - 29 Sep 09
Sunshine Coast from A$98* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Alice Springs from A$98* 02 Jun 09 - 29 Sep 09
Perth from A$128* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09

(from Adelaide) Price Fly period
Canberra FREE + $35.13* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Hobart FREE + $26.36* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Melbourne FREE + $25.14* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Gold Coast from A$88* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09
Alice Springs from A$98* 02 Jun 09 - 29 Sep 09
Perth from A$98* 01 Jun 09 - 30 Sep 09

Welcome To Tiger Airways (http://www.tigerairways.com/au/en/real_deals.php)

Dehavillanddriver

25th Apr 2009, 02:51

On one hand I dont know how airlines can begin to make any sort of profit with the cost and complexity of operating an airline, yet on the other hand I dont have too much sympathy for airlines because they fail to charge what it costs to provide a seat.

The public will never pass up a cheap seat and unfortunately they now expect the 20 dollar seats.

Unfortunately it is the staff that work for airlines that end up taking it in the shorts as companies plead poverty - and attempt to reduce costs by cutting salaries, conditions and work hours.

At the end of the day, the aeroplanes cost pretty much the same, the fuel is roughly the same price, as are landing and airport charges, so really the only place to make substantive cost reductions is in the salaries paid to staff.

All so we can effectively subsidise some bogan with thongs and stubbies on a cheap ticket.

I just wish some sanity would return to ticket pricing so that reasonable, not excessive fares, would allow people to travel safely and confortably on aeroplanes crewed, maintained and supported by people reasonably compensated for their labours.

Des Dimona

25th Apr 2009, 04:20

Just remember that Singapore Inc. has MUCH deeper pockets than Virgin Blue, which is struggling to pay it's bills let alone move ahead.

Mr. Hat

25th Apr 2009, 05:00

Spot on Dehavillandriver.

Tiger offered 30,000 "free" seats the other day. Makes you wonder where its all heading.

otto the grot

25th Apr 2009, 06:34

Maybe, but tiger is getting a good reputation of pissing people off with the low cost trickery.

I don't think Tiger care how much they piss people off. They all end up coming back for more if they can save a buck.

iriver88

25th Apr 2009, 09:42

Bob Morane

25th Apr 2009, 09:50

Spot on Otto, humans have short memories when they can save a buck !!!!:O

footloose

25th Apr 2009, 09:57

Virgin Blue, which is struggling to pay it's bills let alone move ahead.
Today 12:51

O.K. I'll bite.

Des Demona, It would be accepted by most that SQ have pretty deep pockets but please grace us with your incredible inside knowledge and tell us what bills aren't being paid by VB.

Inflammatory, unsupported drivel.

Skybus_319

25th Apr 2009, 10:07

Roberts states she wants another 30 aircraft in Aus, which is actually bigger than JQ domestic at the moment, plus Tiger push their fleet further. So they will be a significant player in 2 years time. Virgin already axed ADL-HBA, and ADL-CBR is one of Tiger's strongest routes so how long can they last?, plus they downgraded their ADL-OOL to a E190, plus reduced MEL-ADL by three. So as you said, it Seems TT vs DJ will be the case in the future..No excuse for Tiger to ignore Brisbane now seing sydney is on the cards, so wont be long till DJ's high yield routes are pounced on...

iriver88

25th Apr 2009, 10:09

I agree otto, esp now in this climate people are more price sensitive and do not really care about service as much. That is the reason why Qantas reported a 20% drop in premium class forward bookings. This will continue for quite some time I'm afraid. Wonder what Jet* thinks of Tiger's free fares?

Edit: Alan Joyce just did an interview with Bloomberg of America last 24 hours and had revised the slump in premium travel to 30% instead of the previous 20% :eek::eek::eek:
looks like there are way too many Bfirst hostie now. He is also entertaining thoughts of reconfiguring seats to reflect the cheap heavy and light top trend.

slice

25th Apr 2009, 10:10

Only one airline giving away seats - like Compass did all those years ago!!

Whiskery

25th Apr 2009, 10:25

like Compass did all those years ago!! Ah yes, but this airline hasn't got the Government(read Hawke) and Big Business (Abeles and Murdoch) working against them this time!;)

Dehavillanddriver

25th Apr 2009, 11:26

Tiger can "want another 30 aircraft" all they want - they have not shown much of an effort to get those 30 aircraft, nor have they ever shown a profit - here or in Singapore.

I dont think any airline is in terrific shape, but VB certainly isnt "struggling to pay its bills".

denabol

26th Apr 2009, 00:17

Looks like Tigga has been a very bad pussy cat.

Tiger Airways & Anzac Day: An ignorant, disrespectful and uncontactable airline ripping off a legend - Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/04/24/tiger-airways-anzac-day-an-ignorant-disrespectful-and-uncontactable-airline-ripping-off-a-legend/)

The comments on the blog and on the Crikey bulletin board are funny too.

Mr.Buzzy

26th Apr 2009, 01:18

You have to give it to OZJET. At least when they rolled over, it was fast and with some dignity.

Talk about a long, slow death. Somebody get the tiger rifle!

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

otto the grot

26th Apr 2009, 01:44

I appologise for the thread drift here but i just have to get this off my chest.

Airline management are the used car salesmen of the airways. It might be Tiger supposedly taking advantage of something inappropriate this time but VB, JQ and QF are lining up behind them to take credit for the next gaff.

Free fares. Great!! Look at there website, Ohh, $25 plus $5 convenience fee. Not so free but still cheap. I'll book it anyway.

You don't have to click on the confirm payment button if you don't want. You have the choice. So stop bitching about the so called injustice here.

The drivel that comes out of the mouths of these execs makes me cringe. But as i said before, apart from the odd soapboxer or 2 complaining about this scum, no one gives a rats ar$e as long as they can save a buck.

drshmoo

26th Apr 2009, 02:25

I heard VB were paying cash for fuel but tiger are paying cash for cat food - oh and so do the one thonged brigade that fly them

Skybus_319

26th Apr 2009, 04:45

nor have they ever shown a profit - here or in Singapore
30mill in Singapore ops actually last year

Mr.Buzzy

26th Apr 2009, 06:51

Yaaaawwwwn....anyone seen the remote?

barrybeebone

26th Apr 2009, 13:39

So does anyone know what the loads are like on the new routes started by VB this year?

From memory there has been CBR - Townsville and Hobart, Townsville - Rocky, Gold Coast and Cairns.

Centaurus

26th Apr 2009, 14:00

This crass drivel might pass for typical low grade PR on an ordinary day, but this is about Anzac Day, and this effort to cash in on it by the Singapore Airlines controlled token low cost entry in the Australian market is offensive and illegal.

Can't see the problem. Saturdays front page picture in the Sun Herald shows two splendidly attired football "heroes" with the background of the Shrine of Remembrance and the caption "Our Pride" Equating footballers with the Anzacs is peurile. With maybe 75 percent of the "marchers" at Anzac Day parades being relatives, kids dressed up playing at tin soldiers and other hangers on, the march is not what it was a quarter of a century ago.

MELKBQF

1st May 2009, 12:46

VB group passengers numbers up by 3.7% compared to March last year, passengers YTD up by 10.7% :O

ozbiggles

1st May 2009, 14:02

I'll bite Centaurus
You might pause before having a go at the 75% (your figures) of people you think are not worthy of marching in ANZAC parades.
The people they represent and respect on that day are mostly gone now. There is no one left from WWI to march and the figures for WWII vets who have left us in the last year are disturbing.
If these people don't march to represent/remember/respect our vets, well in a short few years it will be a small march and when that happens who knows how long the younger ones will take an interest for.
Right now I think its great to see a new breed of kids wearing their relatives medals and young cadets and schools involved as well. They will never forget the day and in turn they will never forget what the vets have done for the country. Rather that then them not giving a stuff.
Not so much a dig....but a different point of view
How is this related to flying or VB.....I'll claim flying off the handle is a close as I can get and now I feel like a VB.

Oldmate

1st May 2009, 15:15

totally off topic i know, but i love seeing the younger generations really getting involved in anzac day.

wirgin blew

1st May 2009, 21:53

Considering all the stuff written about VB and VA over the past few months it seems to have gone very quiet. The numbers show VB is holding up and perhaps even pinching some pax from QF domestically. Up 5.9% YTD.
VA appears to be around the 55-60% lf mark looking at the BITRE numbers. I wonder what the target for loads was over the first 12-18 months?
Yield is the big factor in all of this and we will have to wait till August to get a look at the real numbers.
At this stage based on only pax numbers you would have to say that they are doing as well as anyone else in OZ.

denabol

1st May 2009, 22:49

Looking at this Virgin Blue is making a few posters around here look like fools.

777s carving up the Pacific, and going up not down in the domestic scene.

Furking losers for sure.

illusion

1st May 2009, 23:41

Centaurus

I quote you
"........With maybe 75 percent of the "marchers" at Anzac Day parades being relatives, kids dressed up playing at tin soldiers and other hangers on, the march is not what it was a quarter of a century ago".(bolding added)

You seem bitterly disappointed that Australia has let pass opportunity to wreck another generation of lives by sending them off to some mindless conflict on the otherside of the world.

If kids "playing at toy soldiers " is the cost of opportunity lost, then I consider it a good thing- and may it continue.

RAD_ALT_ALIVE

2nd May 2009, 00:13

MELKBQF,

How many aircraft have the Virgin Group taken delivery of in the YTD?

How many more aircraft do they have this March compared to March '08?

How many extra seats, expressed as a percentage, do the previous two questions equate to?

Are your figures still worth a smiley?

The March comparison is particularly alarming!

On Guard

2nd May 2009, 00:34

VA said 40-45% LF was in line with budgets up until July 09 so 55-60 is better, yeild not so sure about.

GE90115BL2

2nd May 2009, 15:51

So exactly how many aircraft this year compared to last?
Please compare the pax number increase to the capacity increase.

wirgin blew

2nd May 2009, 22:43

Aircraft in fleet up 30.4%
Pax numbers up 10.7%
LF down 2.4%

I hear what you are saying about extra aircraft but the LF are holding up. I would have a guess and say that VBA are on track to meet forcast P&L figures posted in DEC barring the GFC worsening, SwFlu, or anything else that gets thrown at them.
VA has the cheapest staff by far operating over the Pacific something that I think has been commented on here already :)
Fuel and plane costs would be relatively the same as well as airport handling fees. Wages are the point of difference on the route and will be the difference going forward. The only way QF was able to compete in the past with regards to this was to create J*. I doubt they are willing to try it on the SYD-LAX route. So in the mean time QF LH will be suffering. QCCA will help but not enough in the short term.
I am not saying that VA have done the right thing by driving wages down but it is an industry that has far to much glamour for whats actually involved. So you will find people that are willing to undercut others just to see what all the fuss is about. Sooner or later they will realise and move on, others will be happy with the T&C no matter how low you go.

TENTOTEN

2nd May 2009, 23:56

You are all correct in wondering how VB is still operating. I have it on good authority that the Government is supporting VB financially. They realise that if VB folds Qantas and Jetstar would have a monopoly over the Australian aviation arena. How long this support will go on for remains to be seen???

airtags

3rd May 2009, 00:06

TEN
- that's a big call
- and I would think apart from a few Air Services token waivers and those ongoing (some expired) dispensations (no correspondence pls wirgin) it is highly unlikely.

care to elaborate?

3 Holer

3rd May 2009, 00:19

They realise that if VB folds Qantas and Jetstar would have a monopoly over the Australian aviation arena. There is another player by the name of Tiger (backed by SQ) so that puts pay to their monopoly theory.

I have it on good authority that the Government is supporting VB financially. I don't think your "good authority" has done his homework. The way this Government is spending money, I doubt they would have the financial resources to back an any airline in the current economic climate. Why would they anyway, they never came to Ansett's rescue?

Sounds like a mischievous wind up to me!:=

7378FE

3rd May 2009, 01:26

I have it on good authority that the Government is supporting VB financially.

It's not school holidays again is it?

The Virgin Blue group of airlines are doing OK.

Re-started MEL-DRW last week (mainly a freight contract, any PAX are just extra revenue) and added DRW-PER same day, PAX loads are about 80% on this one.

Next up is MEL-DPS & SYD-DPS and added services ADL-DPS :ok:

BTW what happened to the Darwin refueller on Tuesday afternoon?
The capt came on the blower with the usual flight details etc and said there was a fuel problem which would delay the departure to MEL.

The fuel problem was that the plane didn't have any fuel, and the refueller wouldn't be at the aircraft until 18:20 for a 18:15 departure, finally got away at 18:35.

7378FE

barrybeebone

3rd May 2009, 02:21

I have it on good authority that the Government is supporting VB financially.

TENTOTEN please elaborate. As others say this is a big call. If anything, I would have thought the secretary of Dept Infrastructure rings VB up everytime the share price goes down to check that they are still operating ok. I doubt financial assistance has actually taken place.

As for other financial figures discussed above. LF may be ok but lets not forget that ticket prices are way down, so revenue is substantially less.

Skystar320

3rd May 2009, 03:10

Government is providing Financial assistance to Virgin Blue.... sure, the corporate market SYD - CBR & some defence...

The Chef

3rd May 2009, 03:36

Also, regarding Tiger being the nail in VB's coffin - something that has been overlooked is that SQ's deep pockets are getting shallower by the day as they suffer the financial meltdown and major fall in premium traffic. I read the other day that they had dropped all their prices by about 20% (can't remember where I read that).

If SQ is bleeding cash on their own, how long are they going to continue to fund Tigers 'charity' fares in oz - we all know that Tiger is losing money at present.

The oz airline world is fast turning into the GA bankrunning / freight world, where a new company would come on the scene and run at a loss to get the business, then once they have got it they jack the prices up - if they don't go broke in the meantime.... and all the while paying their staff (not just pilots) below award and asking them to bend rules to get the job done.

The Chef

TENTOTEN

3rd May 2009, 04:19

There are several ways a government can support a particular airline without making a direct cash input.
I wonder if there was a tender out that Qantas, Jetstar or VB all satisfied the the tender requirements who would win the tender???

Crew rest.

3rd May 2009, 04:22

I have it on good authority that the Government is supporting VB financially.

This would require an act of Parliament.

Idiot.

Go play on the freeway, sonny.

*Lancer*

3rd May 2009, 04:32

Load factors are only a small part of the picture... what matters is yield. VB may have 60% load factors but they need dollar revenue, not passenger numbers. Throw in critically low forward bookings, high debt loading from new aircraft, and creditors may start to question solvency.

Hopefully here's a bottom to all this!

Bula

3rd May 2009, 04:33

I'm very interested to see how it goes, especially in light of the global pandemic and scare mongring out of the Americas.

VB may be doing ok with loads but its yields may not be commensuate with its cost structure. Delta would be very brave to approach the trans-pacific market, though stranger things have happened and I can see overall capacity maintaining the status quo, even if QF retires a percentage of its long haul aircraft, but the stage is set for load factors to decline in a big way.

Lets look... VB is treading lightly in financial negative territory, but if the pacific runs are decimated because of swine flu, I think we may see the end of VB and VA, in its current form anyway.

The managers are very good. They raised collateral by selling 5 737 then leasing them back forsaking assets, but even they couldn't predict swine and in the end is only a fairly big band aid, but a band aid none the less.

In the end it will be who has the deepest pockets and I have to say that QF will win this death match, even if it and it LCC offshoot look a shade of their former selves by the end of the forthcoming blood bath.

coaldemon

3rd May 2009, 04:40

I understand that the Defence force tender was done on a restricted tender basis. Qantas being the only tenderer. As for financial assistance to VB all you have to look at is the demise of Ansett to see what sort of money Governments hand out to airlines.

Richard Kranium

3rd May 2009, 06:20

Hand out to airlines, well some just keep getting wonderful handouts, with a wave of a wand, Keating gave Australian Airlines to Qantas in the early 90's, no problem and absolved the 750 million debt AA had thanks to the Aussie taxpayer, just one more free kick for the privileged few.:confused:

Mstr Caution

3rd May 2009, 06:23

The only concessions I recall, were Payroll Tax concessions by the QLD government? If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't that one of the lures for VB to set up the operation out of BNE as opposed to MEL in the early days of VB's Aussie ops.

If the concessions are still applied, don't know?

porch monkey

3rd May 2009, 09:25

What a load of ****.

Mstr Caution

3rd May 2009, 11:32

Tax lure brings Virgin to Sydney - Travel - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/branson-lured-to-sydney/2008/03/31/1206850812076.html)

Skybus_319

4th May 2009, 02:05

Also, regarding Tiger being the nail in VB's coffin - something that has been overlooked is that SQ's deep pockets are getting shallower by the day as they suffer the financial meltdown and major fall in premium traffic. I read the other day that they had dropped all their prices by about 20% (can't remember where I read that).

If SQ is bleeding cash on their own, how long are they going to continue to fund Tigers 'charity' fares in oz - we all know that Tiger is losing money at present.

The Chef

Tiger Airways's shareholders have not injectted a cent into Tiger Aviation since their launch in 2004. No extra funds have been injected into the operation since. Tiger turned a profit last year, might be close this time round, but the deep pockets of SIA might not need to be touched for a while yet. Tiger Australia did lose 12million, but since when does a LCC make a make a profit in the first year?

The Virgin Blue group of airlines are doing OK
Since when?

oicur12

4th May 2009, 02:26

Richard,

Stop putting facts into your argument.

"As for financial assistance to VB all you have to look at is the demise of Ansett to see what sort of money Governments hand out to airlines."

Ansett was a different story, different agenda, different government, different ownership issues and different industrial environment.

VB will be ok.

sundaun

4th May 2009, 02:42

I concur. We'r sending a Gecko to NZ tomorrow to suss it. It will wind them up over there.

walaper

4th May 2009, 09:25

What is it that threatens you tools out there that a particular company( no particular one either from my view ) might just be slogging it out ok at the moment despite all the the doom and crap.

Mr. Hat

4th May 2009, 12:01

There is some fear isn't there? I suspect if/when vb pull through this they might doing pretty well. Plenty of good free publicity going around with the highish (given the situation) load factors.Sure the yield may not be great but the word of mouth will be gold.

Frontalobe

5th May 2009, 09:11

Don't worry folks.
VB is about to be rescued by the arrival of the Chief pilot from SkyAirWorld!
Given that according to staff the demise of that airline can be placed at the feet of operations and general mismanagement let us hope that the ex QF, ex EK, ex S9 does better by us.:sad:

7378FE

5th May 2009, 09:59

Since when?

Skybus_319

Since 14 Sep 2001 :}

7378FE

dirty deeds

6th May 2009, 12:12

I hope no one goes broke and we all still have jobs for years to come.

Why would someone enjoy seeing another pilot loose their job!

Lets try and be a little positive here. For F^%K sake. We all have friends that work for airline XYZ, would you enjoy watching them loose their job?

greenslopes

6th May 2009, 13:21

Guys........the nut is loose, if i do not tighten it I may lose it....get it!!

The Green Goblin

7th May 2009, 06:41

Word on the street is that Virgin will be insolvent within the fortnight, I don't know how true this is, but where there is is smoke, there is fire!!

I sincerely hope this is not the case, the demise of VB will be a huge blow for the industry and any new start to replace VB (Tiger etc) will certainly pray upon experienced crews requiring work, offering reduced conditions as a direct result which have been worked for so tirelessly :confused:

Beeroclock

7th May 2009, 06:58

Goblin..You have to be kidding?? Not sure what street your on but im pretty sure its the wrong one..

littlehurcules

7th May 2009, 07:05

Word on the street is that Virgin will be insolvent within the fortnight...

Are you writing this info from a QF computer ? Same place as the paying for fuel with cash informer ??

Do spill your source - we would all like to know ....

Stationair8

7th May 2009, 07:33

I know a guy, that has a mate whose cousin works in Brisbane that does a lawn mowing round and he heard that all the Virgin staff have to keep the Woolies shopper docket so that the flight crew can get the 4 cents a litre off when they get fuel for the Boeing's.

So Green Goblin who is your source?

dirty deeds

7th May 2009, 12:00

I think people are forgetting the fact that VB is a listed company. If this were true and the company did not make a formal statement to the ASX stating its financial position, Management will be off to the big house!

Green Goblin, very funny posting. I also heard that QF is getting the shuttle and Tiger are bring the Super Connie out of mothballs to do a run between Melbourne and East Sale!

VBPCGUY

7th May 2009, 13:45

Goblin if that was the case why would Virgin Blue wait another two weeks???

fmcinop

8th May 2009, 08:12

We have been going broke ever since our first day of operation back in 2000 according to rumour. Yet VB are still here.

I don't believe for a second that they are going broke then or now!

porch monkey

8th May 2009, 09:16

Hey goblin, pm me with the details of your dealer. I need some of that a grade **** you're smoking.

contrails03

8th May 2009, 10:43

Porch be careful! CASA are conducting random drug tests these days :ok:

BPA

9th May 2009, 00:03

If DJ are going under in 2 weeks, why are they starting work on redeveloping T2 at SYD, including building an interline lounge?

longjohn

9th May 2009, 06:25

Why were Ansett conducting pilot recruitment interviews leading up to and on the day they went under?

Same reason.

Not that I am saying this is why DJ would go under, just that the fact a business is carrying on as usual does not necessarily mean it is financially heathy.

34R

9th May 2009, 10:40

You guys really need a life....

I guess that means I do as well!

porch monkey

10th May 2009, 06:30

ABC 1, Under the skin there are quite a few similarities between VB and AN. Comes with employing some of the ex AN employees. Some of those similarities are a little scary. Now, before you jump off the ledge at me, make sure you read my post earlier about my thoughts on the tosser who stated "his good authority told him". VB won't be going broke anytime soon. At least I hope not, cause then I'll be out of work. My point I guess is while VB isn't AN, in some respects, they could be "adopted brothers".

porch monkey

11th May 2009, 07:48

Amen to that brother.

coaldemon

11th May 2009, 10:04

No one I know from that background has left VB over the last 12 months. In fact only 1 person I know has moved out of VB in the last 12 months so where did these AN guys go? From what I have heard they have been moved on into your management.

porch monkey

13th May 2009, 04:00

Certainly more than 1 person has left recently, whether they are or are not from AN I wouldn't know. I know one who has moved to management, but then, we've also employed experts from SAW into management. Wonder how that's going to go.......:eek:

7378FE

13th May 2009, 08:46

Pacific Blue (Australia) today applied to the IASC for a capacity allocation to Phuket, Thailand (probably from Perth or maybe Darwin :confused:)

Requested 7x weekly capacity on 737-800.

7378FE

blow.n.gasket

13th May 2009, 11:32

That'll be a long slog in a skinny little aeroplane!

barrybeebone

13th May 2009, 11:35

Phuket? Copying Jetstar's short haul Asian strategy or beating Air Asia to it? I suspcet a bit of both

apacau

13th May 2009, 23:10

I read somewhere that they had applied for onward rights from DPS, so I suspect the flights will be from there, feeding from the DPS flights that now operate (or will soon operate) from ADL/PER/BNE/MEL/SYD

wirgin blew

13th May 2009, 23:48

apacau - have heard that rumour as well. How do they get round OZ CC only being able to go as far north as Singapore?

Goat Whisperer

14th May 2009, 00:25

Where's that written Wirgin?

If it's in the Cabin Crew EBA then the company may use that as an extra push factor towards the new proposed EBA.

I'm already finding it odd how pilots can operate many flights through Bali but the cabin crew with their shorter duty hours have to overnight there. Pac Blue NZ CC can fly as long as the pilots.

I would hate to see any (Aus) intl flights go to (NZ) for reasons of cabin crew duty.

oicur12

14th May 2009, 00:49

"Ansett can only serve an a example of how not to run a business. "

For 66 years.

Lets see where VB stands in 57 years and who owns the company before dancing too loudly on someone's grave.

Richard Kranium

14th May 2009, 01:15

Oh I disagree oicur, Ansett did well and became a very successful company until taken over by TNT and News, but then also did quite well for a while until TNT decided to spit the dummy and sold its half to Air NZ.

By this time News was in full flight sucking the marrow out of Ansett to expand its grand ideas, when Air NZ fully gained control it became a total disaster.

Ansett as a company could do nothing with its hands tied behind its back, except watch as it all fell apart around their ears, could have easily happened to Q if that evil deal that was orchestrated by "trickie dickie" had gone through.:(

The Professor

14th May 2009, 02:59

" . . . thats why they were recruiting 2 weeks before folding."

Many airlines have folded during expansion phases including the hiring of new cockpit crew.

"They managed to go under in a 2 player market policy where they charged whatever they wanted . . . "

Really? You don't think the market had some influence over pricing policy. I suspect it did.

The airline industry in Australia is close to achieving stability following deregulation and the collapse of a major player. But its not yet there and it would be a very brave person that trumpets the success of VB at this stage.

Singaporeans have very long memories and are patient people. Lets wait and see.

Mr. Hat

14th May 2009, 05:11

Back to the top. VB what the latest?

porch monkey

14th May 2009, 07:55

Just another example of threads that simply talk down another employer in the industry. As if there aren't enough threads around to bag whoever you want.:ugh:

airtags

14th May 2009, 10:35

apps lodged as per previous post by 7378FE

there are however apellant points of contention to say nothing of the blurring of PacBlue & VB which does not help the cause.... even the documentation is "corporate confusing." No doubt Dillip is being diligently lobbied by the reps for the Brissie blue bunker.

For Wirgin and Co these applications are actually a risk to CC - as the proposed (threatened?) new (little e) eba provides a non negotitiable pathway for PacBlue and other O.S. crew to be substituted at will for the DJ domestics currently on these kind of soirees. (then they will be doing returns)

There is also the danger of precident with at least two other non-Australian carriers (who as well as PacBlue ops under NZ AOC or are relying on the APEC barn door) lining up for a slice of the Aussie pax pie if the principal place of business provision gets the thumbs up.

CC and drivers all need to stay really tight and make sure the gig stays on Australian crew rosters.

AT

VBPCGUY

14th May 2009, 12:38

Starting direct flights from SYD to HTI from July 4th $99 sale fares one way:ok:

barrybeebone

14th May 2009, 16:43

I assume you mean HLT or hamilton?

7378FE

14th May 2009, 18:27

VBPCGUY means HTI Hamilton Island

7378FE

SIDS N STARS

14th May 2009, 18:43

Happy to be corrected, my timelines and facts could be a little out, but didn't VB start their WA ops about 18-24 months after the boom??

And now they're trying the Asian market after Jetstar and Tiger have showed that there could be a market for LCC?

Voz to LA was hardly a brainchild.

Are VB genuinely being creative or relying on the success of other airlines initiatives??

airtags

14th May 2009, 23:38

Sn Stars

actually they are being creative.... almost to the point of being too cute
- the apps for the international ops are for PacBlue, which despite being used as a Panama flag for VB, is not technically an australian airline.

(for Vb drivers and CC it is a risk as the local ebas don't preclude or specify ratios for OS crew engagement and the 'VB Group' I daresay would like QF be seriously attracted to an even lower pay scale)

I believe the matter is about to be raised with the IASC and the Minister

Goat Whisperer

15th May 2009, 01:23

Airtags... there are two entities called Pacific Blue at play. Both are wholly owned by VB Holdings, one registered on each side of the Tasman.

I think you'd find that Pac Blue (Aus) Ltd is an Australian company resident in Brisbane, while Pac Blue (NZ) is headquartered in Christchurch and employs all of 5 or 6 people directly.

This is how the same airline can approach (for example) Indonesia and Fiji claiming to be Aussie but Cook Islands claiming to be Kiwi. It gets messy when the same entity then approaches Fiji claiming to be Kiwi, a matter as yet unresolved, hence no AKL-NAN flights yet.

There's a real danger here that VB will start yet another entity to crew the cabins of the regional flights, one capable of longer duty periods. The precedent is more than set, look at Zeal in NZ, the number of Thai speakers that seem to be required on Jetstar's Syd-Hnl flights.

I would recommend that the FAAA state now what they would do if the flying was carved off from their members, to ensure it doesn't go ahead. VB could not afford to ground a morning's worth of Mel/Syd flying over a minor sliver ofthe operation.

airtags

15th May 2009, 05:51

Goat W

agree totally - not only is there a real risk to erosion of Aust jobs but the reality is that reciprocal rights accessible by such agreements can further undermine the market and all of our jobs. Those sitting at desks in the IASC need to be much more astute.

Also agree that the CC unions [especially] must get off their tails get saavy with VB - given the performance of the domestic FAAA in the current VB eba I think VB M'ment are not the slightest bit concerned. (info courtesy of my other half who is about to be done over with her fellow CC). VB drivers may also have to watch their backs if the company can leverage enough seats to initiate the ops from offshore.

It might be a little different in the future as a mate of mine working in Canberra mentioned that the CC's international union has been raising its profile with a few pollies and their minders in recent weeks.

I don't mind the competition, but I expect EVERYONE flying in Australian skies to meet the same safety standards that my company, aircraft and crew have to comply with.

The blurry VB line of convenience that uses the NZ AOC and various other bureacratic dispensations, some of which have expired, is ultimately a safety risk. This is where CASA and the about to be transformed ATSB need to stop turning the other cheek to foreign carriers and get serious about what their real purpose is.

Getzo

15th May 2009, 09:46

Vb to hire Thai ladies as cabin crew, has anyone else heard of this plan??
Guess all those precious princesses at VB will have to move over.

G

slice

15th May 2009, 11:28

Fortunately PB have had such trouble recruiting recently that most of the expanded PB has gone to VB crew under a wetlease arrangement. Almost all of the VB secondees to PB refused to extend their secondment and are now back at VB thus all the Bali, BNE - WLG, and most of the new Pacific Island flying is to be done by VB crew.

jism

15th May 2009, 21:49

"Fortunately PB have had such trouble recruiting"

More like a ban on recruiting to save Aus jobs but hey why spoil a good story with facts

porch monkey

15th May 2009, 23:52

No, they couldn't get crews before, and couldn't stop blokes leaving before any of this GFC bull****. Comes with paying peanuts.

slice

16th May 2009, 02:42

jism - that's why they had the secondment in first place, long before the recruitment ban was in place. Besides, it appears it is a 'ban' in name only. The ex DFO of the Skyairworld calamity hired just recently!!!

barrybeebone

19th May 2009, 17:03

http://www.iasc.gov.au/pubs/4408.pdf

Anyone know which australian airports PB will fly from?

VH-ABC

19th May 2009, 22:06

Phuket being 2300nm from Darwin makes me think that it would have to be via there from anywhere else. Bloody long way in a 737 if you get the centre seat in economy.

air command

20th May 2009, 02:01

Think you will find that the plan is to hub through Bali

Mr. Hat

20th May 2009, 02:39

Another thread talks of the demise of Ozjet so it sounds like decreased competition on the bali run for the Bluebird.

airtags

20th May 2009, 06:55

Mr Hat:
competition, blow ins or legitimate competion?

The AOC's for PacBlue are issued to PacBlue NZ ...the apps to the IASC are for PacBlue Australia (virtually a shelf co reg in BNE with no AOC) ...
..................so apart from minor issues like who is the REAL operator/ETOPS et al;) ........under the bilateral, reciprocal rights apply..... which means more openings for the likes of Thai to pick up more bums on seats out of Australia ......- all up it is not at all a good move to keep Aussie drivers and CC employed.

VH ABC
- indeed 2300nm is a long way in a 737.....but then the standards are slightly less and CASA is far less than proactive when it comes to (occaisional) "foreign carriers" and even less effective when it comes to delegated instruments that have long expired. (besides the poor bureaucrats don't quite know which identity is which when it comes to the VB group)

oh while we are on it - query: domestic FAAA - hows those 'discussions' going with CASA & multiple identity VB group re: 3 up on the 738? .......hope we are not looking at another soft c*ck cave in like that given for the jungle jet?

Question: Can you paint a panama flag on an aircraft tail?.....
.......[rhetorical question and would the starry eyed Bransonesque management flunkies from the VB bunker pls don't bother to PM me anymore]

AT :E

BPA

20th May 2009, 08:25

Pacific Blue does hold an Australian AOC, it was first issued in late 2007.

barrybeebone

20th May 2009, 10:04

BPA you are correct and I am pretty certain the Aust PB AOC is what is used to fly to Bali

zuluman

20th May 2009, 11:09

The PB(NZ) Aust AoC expired and was not renewed... Flights to DPS are done under PB (AUS) AoC under the mutal agreement.

Regards,
Zuluman

GAFA

20th May 2009, 22:52

So 14 days ago it was stated;

Virgin will be insolvent within the fortnight

Will the fortnight is up and Virgin are still trading and operating normally.

Perhaps it's time to stop posting crap every few months that Virgin are closing and realise Virgin are here to stay.

Mr. Hat

20th May 2009, 23:55

I think its fear GAFA.

Not only are they here to stay I think long term they are going to do pretty well. They are pretty quick to respond to difficult circumstances.

Sand dune Sam

21st May 2009, 02:57

Its gone pretty quiet on the V Australia bashing as well...where are all the pprune know it alls with their expert opinons and rumours about V Australia?

Going Boeing

21st May 2009, 03:50

Not bashing but just passing on info from LAX AA ground staff. V Australia has reduced their flights into LAX from 10 per week (7 ex SYD & 3 ex BNE) to 7 per week due to very low loads. Loads out of LAX are consistantly around 60-90 pax. I hope that this picks up soon as they would be losing very big money on these services, especially at the introductory prices that the tickets were sold at.

Airlines operating through LAX are doing it tough right now. All the operators across the Pacific have had to reduce their services, in particular SQ, CX & JAL. Airline terminals are no longer congested and taxi times have reduced dramatically.

inandout

21st May 2009, 06:34

Going Boeing that info is not correct.

VBPCGUY

21st May 2009, 10:21

I was speaking to a V Australia Cabin Crew friend of mine on the w/end just gone and asked her about the loads and she said on all the flights she has done there were no more than 20 seats available across all three classes.

wirgin blew

21st May 2009, 12:41

Rumours abound that VOZ is around the 80% mark on the SYD market. BNE not doing so well but to be expected as the newspapers in SE QLD are full of doom and gloom.
Cant wait to see how MEL goes, should be a winner!
Going to SA next year is pure genius with the 2010 World Cup on.

I wonder where GreenGoblin has gotten to?

On Guard

21st May 2009, 21:36

Hey GB, how's things.

How are QF's loads out of interest?

VA is going fairly average from what I have heard and yes I had heard services had been canceled, not sure if this was a regular occurrence though as you were told.

I think most really want to see them do well so here's hoping, a Delta code share would help.

Product is fantastic.

Mr. Hat

22nd May 2009, 00:42

Virgin Blue 'most reliable airline'

By John Wright

The Courier-Mail

May 22, 2009 08:00am

Virgin Blue

VIRGIN Blue passengers have a greater chance of departing and arriving on time than those using other major domestic airlines, an industry report shows.

During April, 87.3 per cent of Virgin Blue's departures and 87.6 per cent of its scheduled arrivals were on time, the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics said. Its flight cancellation rate was 1.4 per cent.

In the same period, the on-time departures and arrivals and cancellation rates for the other major domestic carriers were: Qantas (86.4, 86.9 and 2.6); Jetstar (75.5, 77.2 and 0.8); and Tiger Airways (72.2, 69.2 and zero).

Of the regional domestic airlines, QantasLink led in on-time departures, followed by Skywest. Skywest pipped QantasLink marginally for the best on time arrival performance.

The report on 49 competitive domestic routes showed of the three biggest airports, Brisbane performed the best.

Dare say BG would be happy about this one.

denabol

22nd May 2009, 01:07

Mr Hat. I just checked VBA on the ASX and noticed an asterisk which led me to their latest traffic figures for April. They are tearing strips off Qantas.

Broke when?

Mr. Hat

22nd May 2009, 01:27

Yeah comparing the March and April releases it looks like a positive trend so whatever they are doing it seems to be working.

In other news The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) is believed to have issued a $A3,000 fine to a man who flew a model plane close to a Virgin Blue jet. A former CASA inspector said the man was lucky to have avoided criminal charges.

VBPCGUY

22nd May 2009, 05:09

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20090522/pdf/31hqfy8f83wdjt.pdf

Released today, VB we are going NOWHERE:ok:

Going Boeing

22nd May 2009, 08:14

On Guard, QF's loads are reasonable but only because they have been reducing the number of services. At the peak (18 months ago) they were operating 6 services per day across the Pacific to LAX - now they are probably averaging 4 services per day. This has kept the load factors reasonable but I doubt that they are making money on the route because they would have sold the tickets at a discount to be competitive with V Oz and the impending competition from Delta. The biggest hit for QF (as well as SQ, CX etc) is the large reduction in premium traffic.

In very competitive situations like this, it is normally the weakest of the incumbent airlines who suffers the most, so, I wouldn't be surprised to see United withdraw from the route soon.

Thylacine

22nd May 2009, 08:26

Passenger numbers up: Virgin Blue
The Age May 22, 2009 - 11:12AM

Virgin Blue Holdings says it saw an increase in domestic and international customers in April and over the year to date.

The low-cost carrier said today domestic passenger numbers in April increased by 3.1 per cent on the previous corresponding period to 1.3 million.

International passenger numbers in April increased by 62.6 per cent on the previous year to over 209,000.

Virgin Blue's V Australia airline, flying from Australia's east coast to the west coast of the United States, began operating in March.

In the ten months to April, there was a 5.6 per cent increase in domestic passenger numbers to 13.6 million, Virgin Blue said.

International passengers for the same period increased by 70.5 per cent on the previous corresponding period to 1.78 million.

Virgin Blue said its measurement of revenues per passenger also increased for domestic and international passengers during these periods.

AAP

Don't count them out just yet. Their recession planning appears to be on track.

greenslopes

22nd May 2009, 12:50

Well vb have every reason to improve.
If you go to the above site and compare the stocks Vb in 5 years have lost value by %86.53 whereas Qantas have dropped by % 44.87.

Yes when you reach the basement there is only one way to go.

Please don't believe the rantings , do the check yourself.

farrari

22nd May 2009, 23:25

Also noted just recently if you look at the timetables ,VA now code share on most VB flights.There is a BIG hint in that.

Goat Whisperer

23rd May 2009, 05:44

and that hint is...?

porch monkey

23rd May 2009, 09:38

I just love it. The company is improving it's performance, contrary to pretty much every other airline in the country, and contrary to many opinions here. And still, some of you have to attempt to kick the **** out of VB. Some of you really do need to get a life. Glad I don't take business advice from some of you.:ugh:

Hugh Jarse

23rd May 2009, 11:15

Porch Monkey,
It's pretty much a case of so many uninformed dickheads, so little time. :}

There's more than enough speculation here to choke a horse. Pity it's mostly bull**** from people who have no idea of what goes on in the real world.

wirgin blew

23rd May 2009, 19:23

The BIG HINT is that with VB's pax numbers up 10.5% APRIL YTD the share price is possibly undervalued. I realise that some of you have issues with leadership and debt something which The BOC didn't when they handed VB more cash not that long ago.
However when you look at the numbers of paying pax who are choosing VB domestically and internationally at a very low time in the Australian economy you would ask yourself where are these people coming from. The population hasn't grown by 10.5% so the next logical step is to look at the QF numbers and notice that back in March there's dropped by 7% (QF and QLink).
It will be interesting to see what QF's April figures are when they get around to releasing them.

farrari

23rd May 2009, 20:55

the hint = possible, co share with **
With our $ heading towards $US 1.20 as the US unfortunately falls over more, this would be good for VA but not so for **. So one would think those guys would look at a CS with VA, hench the ground work. If it does not happen it still puts VA in a position to do it with other carriers at some point in time.

denabol

23rd May 2009, 21:43

I like this blog because it fits in with my view that buying VBA at an average of 21 cents wasn't a bad punt.

Virgin Blue piles the pressure onto Qantas with latest traffic figures - Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/05/22/virgin-blue-piles-the-pressure-onto-qantas-with-latest-traffic-figures/)

But what is QF going to do about it? The writer seems to have some idea that Qantas is working on a big hit back. When your competitor is growing in a market that is otherwise falling you have to do something.

Ultergra

24th May 2009, 01:23

Bum's on seat's is fantastic to see! However, if the yeild is not there to support such movement, then companies find it difficult to still make money....

Skybus_319

24th May 2009, 02:26

The BIG HINT is that with VB's pax numbers up 10.5% APRIL
Surprised? Considering the previous April was not Easter and the majority not School Holidays, of course there is going to be an increase!. Its like comparing dead to high season. I would be more worried if a carrier didn't post substantial pax increases for April..:suspect:

coaldemon

24th May 2009, 05:14

Then you would be surprised every April. Dependent on when Easter falls:}

denabol

24th May 2009, 05:22

I think the YTD column is the most important once the market gets get QF and DJ figs side by side.

Then we can have a real cruxification, if the YTD comparison to March are a guide.

HotDog

24th May 2009, 05:55

Doesn't matter what the YTD results are, you wont stop the doomsday sayers from trying to justify their learned opinions.:rolleyes:

Mr. Hat

24th May 2009, 12:21

21 cents pretty good. Where is old mate that bouhgt em at 15 cents - thats a good buy.

Ramboflyer 1

24th May 2009, 12:44

I honestly believe Virgin will ride the storm and eventually expand in the future. the problems are at QF AND i THINK QF may get put in the hands of the receivers at some point.

The receivers will
run the
profitable sectors of
qf international on there terms,
liquidate mainline and sell
jetstar as a going concern to the higest bidder.

Bo777

24th May 2009, 23:13

Rambo
i THINK ... don't flatter yourself!

VBPCGUY

25th May 2009, 23:18

Thats why its now important ground crew get a fair EBA.

Sand dune Sam

26th May 2009, 00:10

Hugh Jarse...If you were able to survey the "experts" on pprune who ****can VB and VA you would almost certainly find that they either work for the opposition.. or they have failed an interview with VA or VB and find ****canning the company on pprune a worthwhile exercise in making themselves feel better....either way, they are dickheads and it's a shame that others in the pilot fraternity would be happy to see their mates endure hardship if for whatever reason they lost their job.....:ugh:

34R

26th May 2009, 01:33

it's a shame that others in the pilot fraternity would be happy to see their mates endure hardship if for whatever reason they lost their job

SDS, I absolutely agree with you, however if QF were to fall over tomorrow there wouldn't be too many VB'ers extending that mateship to their QF bretheren.

I'm not quite sure why that is. If you are under the impression that the utter garbage posted on this forum is reflective of each companies pilots view of the other, well I can see why that would be so.

I have flown for both companies, and both are tremendous places to earn a living and have a lot of quality people among them. There is no point comparing them as they are so different. To me that doesn't make one better to work for than the other, that's purely a personal thing, and for me anyway was dependant on the stage of life that I found myself at when I had an opportunity to make a choice.
What makes one person work for one company and not the other, again not something that even needs to be judged, let alone justified.

If you are happy in your neck of the woods, for god's sake be happy with that and get on with your life. Don't spend your time bitter at another group because they have it better/different/worse than you. Concentrate on keeping your own house in order and ensure this profession is still something our kids can aspire to doing.

I have a lot of friends at VB so I'm happy they're riding the storm. They have a good product and it's a product of hard work and a positive attitude.

Of course I want QF to thrive as well. Not a popular stance around here, but after all it is where I work and I want to keep on working for a long time to come.

For those donkeys that want one/either/both of them to fail for no other reason than it's going to make you feel great about yourself, how you ever held down the position of human being, let alone professional pilot is beyond me.

Mr. Hat

26th May 2009, 02:20

The failing of either QF or VB will lead to a reduction in terms and conditions among the pilot workforce.

QF set the bar for overall package and VB set the bar for overall improvement in conditions. Lets hope both stay open.

In the news

Confidence vote for Virgin, but V's a worry

Date: 26/5/2009
Author: Steve Creedy
Source: The Australian --- Page: 19

The load factor across all of its carriers for the listed Virgin Blue in April2009 remained resilient at 76.3%, down only 0.9% in a tough market. The domesticAustralian operations were especially healthy, although experts noted that theoverseas division V Australia was continuing to struggle. Some analysts rate thestock a "sell" due to a lack of disclosure on yields. On 25 May 2009it closed $A0.01 higher at $A0.27

im sparticus

26th May 2009, 02:43

the last thing QF wants is for VB to go bust echoed by alan joyce himself at a QF roadshow. wonder if brett would say the same thing about QF??

VBers may love and be passionate about their company but others with no emotional attatchment to VB have every right to be sceptical and question its position when a VBA is down more than 90%.

Capt Claret

26th May 2009, 02:49

What makes one person work for one company and not the other,

I'd be surprised if any significant number of pilots are working for the outfit they want to work for. I'd imagine that for the vast majority of professional pilots, they're working for the company that offered them a job.

Some have been lucky enough to have multiple offers to choose from, and others have even been lucky enough to have been offered a job with the employer they believed was the best one.

AN Flyer

26th May 2009, 12:02

the last thing QF wants is for VB to go bust echoed by alan joyce himself at a QF roadshow. wonder if brett would say the same thing about QF??

im sparticus (http://www.pprune.org/members/211284-im-sparticus) - I'd probably suggest neither party wants to particularly see the other go out of business. Some harsh lessons were learnt through the events of '01 on all sides, I recall long ago brett saying on a news clip that nobody took pleasure at the fact that 16,000 people lost their jobs when AN tanked. If QF actually did collapse tomorrow, despite DJ's tendency to have some tongue-in-cheek fun, I doubt there'd be champagne being cracked. I'd like to think both QF(JQ)/DJ - although fighting for market share and heck - let's not mince words - for ultimate survival through this downturn, respect the fact that there needs to be some competition in this country. That aint QF/JQ if DJ vanished, and visa-versa.

34R (http://www.pprune.org/members/55157-34r) - Well said. Life is just too short. :ok:

porch monkey

26th May 2009, 13:31

34, yes, I would be upset if QF went tits up. Because I am, contrary to popular opinion, a human being. And I don't believe for a minute, that the negativity displayed by some here for VB reflects what the majority at QF or anywhere else for that matter really think. I have several friends at QF, and they love their job as much as I do, and certainly don't wish harm to VB or other competitors. As for what Brett might think, I can only leave that to your imagination, as I don't know. I would suspect however, he would think much the same as AJ.

Good point Clarrie. That holds true for me, however, given my situation at the time, I am grateful they gave me the opportunity for an interview and hence a job. Noone else seemed to want to.

Quokka

26th May 2009, 13:31

...and it's a shame that others in the pilot fraternity would be happy to see their mates endure hardship if for whatever reason they lost their job...

The values of Australian society... something all Australian's can be proud of... :=

"It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." Gore Vidal (1925)

KRUSTY 34

26th May 2009, 22:21

I think you'll find that Gore Vidal was born in (1925) Quokka. Unless off course that's what you meant.

Another beauty is, "A narcissist is someone better looking than you are."

Lot's of jealosy out there!

Quokka

27th May 2009, 11:21

Indeed... yes. A poor attempt at referencing on my part. I do apologise.

Anyone see the news last night? Virgin Atlantic recording a substantial increase in profit for the twelve months to Feb... hedged fuel prices well, delayed airline expansion and increased revenue in the premium classes of travel... sounds like the Virgin Group are somewhat better at managing a business than British Airways and the QANTAS Group.

Mr. Hat

27th May 2009, 11:29

Share price on the way up last two days (qan also for that matter).

Jed Clampett

27th May 2009, 11:34

Smart move when VA deferred their A380's:ok:

Quokka

28th May 2009, 11:58

Rumour here is that Emirates are not happy with the A380. Could be a very prudent decision by any airline not to purchase the A380, unless you'll be using it for high volume short haul... or the Hajj

Sunstar320

28th May 2009, 23:59

Rumour here is that Emirates are not happy with the A380. Could be a very prudent decision by any airline not to purchase the A380, unless you'll be using it for high volume short haul.
And what on earth does that have to do with the State of Virgin Blue?

Sand dune Sam

29th May 2009, 00:06

The Sheikh did warn Airbus that if the A350 and A380 turns out to have the same reliability issues as the A340-500's then he wouldnt look at them....the 777 on the other hand.....well, airlines cant get enough of them...I think the point Quokka was trying to make was that VA have the right aircraft...and they do!!!

Mr. Hat

29th May 2009, 11:16

Virgin Blue Considers Additional Capacity Cuts - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124349940193961883.html)

Virgin Blue Considers Additional Capacity Cuts

By ROSS KELLY

SYDNEY -- Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd.'s chief executive said the Australian airline is looking at further cuts to its domestic flying capacity in the coming fiscal year, which starts July 1.

The airline's current plan to reduce the number of seats it flies next fiscal year by 2.4% on an annualized basis needs to go further as demand remains weak, CEO Brett Godfrey told an investment conference in Sydney. "So we are looking at further capacity cuts to take us somewhere around [minus] 5.5%," he said.

Virgin Blue, Australia's second-largest airline, cut 8% of its domestic Australian services and as many as 400 jobs in May by removing five Boeing 737 aircraft from service for at least 12 months.

Like key domestic rival Qantas Airways Ltd., Virgin Blue has been reducing capacity and jobs to save costs as passengers curb travel.

Mr. Godfrey said further cuts would require "taking out some flights," but didn't elaborate on which routes or flights may be affected.

Virgin Blue shares fell 5.1% to 28 Australian cents (U.S. 22 cents) Thursday, compared with a 1.1% fall in the wider market.

The airline, which began operations in August 2000, operates a fleet of Boeing 737 and Embraer jet aircraft on domestic and South Pacific routes across three separate airline brands, and in December commenced trans-Pacific services to the U.S. with its new long-haul international airline V Australia.

Mr. Godfrey, who co-founded the airline with the backing of Virgin Group chief Sir Richard Branson, also flagged that he may be considering leaving the group.

When asked about succession, Mr. Godfrey acknowledged that at 10 years next year, he's been with Virgin Blue for some time. "We are recruiting right now for a new chief commercial officer, who we would expect be a strong internal candidate for succession," he said.

Domestic cuts loom for Virgin Blue | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25552145-23349,00.html)

Domestic cuts loom for Virgin Blue

Ross Kelly and Bill Lindsay | May 29, 2009
Article from: Dow Jones Newswires

VIRGIN Blue is looking at making further cuts to its domestic flying next financial year, chief executive Brett Godfrey revealed yesterday.

The airline's current plans to reduce the number of seats it flies next year by 2.4 per cent on an annualised basis, needs to be cut further as demand remains weak, Mr Godfrey told an investment conference in Sydney.

"So we are looking at further capacity cuts to take us somewhere around (negative) 5.5 per cent," he said.

Australia's second-largest airline, Virgin Blue this month cut 8 per cent of its domestic services and up to 400 jobs by removing five Boeing 737 aircraft from service for at least 12 months.

Like key domestic rival Qantas, Virgin Blue has been reducing capacity and jobs to save costs as passengers are curbing travel.

More 73's to go?

wirgin blew

2nd Jun 2009, 12:32

Good to see BG give himself another 1.6 million options. Must have been to make up for the pay cut he took a while back. In the mean time CC and GS must work harder for less money. I wonder who else was eligable for the options? Could the rest of the paycut taking board been in line? What about the Senior Management Team?
These blokes at the top are a bit rich aren't they?

:ugh:

ER_ZZZ

2nd Jun 2009, 15:46

Heard they are looking at dropping a few more LA flights with the low fare competition etc.

Hope not as this means the recovery is way off.

When is the world cup and will this extended dowturn have an effect on starting or having the aircraft for JBourg.

Capt_SNAFU

2nd Jun 2009, 20:47

From SMH today.

Virgin hit by US fare war
Matt O'Sullivan
June 3, 2009

VIRGIN BLUE'S long-haul carrier, V Australia, has scaled back some direct flights from Sydney to Los Angeles as competitors scramble amid falling demand on the Australia-US route.

In the latest sign of the extent of the difficulties on the trans-Pacific route, Virgin is doing its best to feed US-bound traffic from Sydney through the Queensland capital to boost passenger numbers on the thrice-weekly Brisbane-Los Angeles flights.

Just months after beginning daily services between Sydney and Los Angeles, passengers on some V Australia flights between the two countries are having to go via Brisbane on domestic aircraft. Its website shows that V Australia passengers leaving Sydney this morning will have to catch a flight to Brisbane, where they will later transfer to a Boeing 777 bound for Los Angeles.

Competition on the trans-Pacific route has been cut-throat between V Australia and the two incumbents, Qantas and United Airlines, for the past few months. Competition will heat up further when the world's largest carrier, Delta Air Lines, begins daily services between Sydney and Los Angeles.

It is unusual for a start-up carrier that has been advertising direct flights to resort to making some passengers take a stopover because it frustrates them, particularly corporate clients.

V Australia began services to the US in February - three months' later than originally planned - at the worst possible time. It has been using three Boeing 777s to fly daily services between Sydney and Los Angeles, and three times a week between Brisbane and Los Angeles.

It is still due to take delivery of a fourth 777 in the third quarter so it can begin flights between Melbourne and Los Angeles three times a week on September 15.

But it has deferred the delivery of two Boeing 777-300s for up to two years, which will delay plans to enter the Australia-South Africa market. The carrier had intended to begin services to Johannesburg in October after gaining approval last year for five flights a week.

Virgin has been redeploying aircraft from Australia to trans-Tasman and South Pacific routes in recent months as it reduces domestic capacity.

In another sign it is desperately searching for new routes, Virgin's offshoot, Pacific Blue, recently applied for regulatory approval to operate seven weekly services between Australia and Phuket in Thailand by next April using 180-seat Boeing 737-800 aircraft.

Macquarie Equities believes the competition on the trans-Pacific and the trans-Tasman routes is likely to prevent Virgin from posting a profit over the next 18 months. The broker says Delta's entry will mean it will take V Australia more than two years before it reaches break-even.

The trans-Pacific route has become a lossmaker for Qantas after having been one of its most lucrative international legs for years. It could lose 200 passengers a day when Delta begins daily flights between Sydney and Los Angeles.
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Interesting.

ANstar

2nd Jun 2009, 21:42

They have canned the WED SYD-LAX flights. Hasn't op'd all of May.

wirgin blew

2nd Jun 2009, 21:46

Virgin Blue May Start Tokyo-Sydney Flights Within 18 Months

By Chris Cooper Bloomberg.com (http://www.bloomberg.com)

June 2 (Bloomberg) -- Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd., Australia’s second-biggest airline, may start flights between Sydney and Tokyo within 18 months in anticipation of a rebound in international travel demand.

The carrier would use Tokyo’s Haneda airport, Richard Branson, the billionaire who owns about 25 percent of the carrier, said in an interview today in Tokyo. The new route would be dependent on government approval.

Haneda will open a fourth runway next year and plans to allow 60,000 overseas flights a year, including late-night and early-morning landings. The airport, Asia’s busiest, is closer to central Tokyo and handles mainly domestic flights now, while the airport at Narita is the nation’s largest international gateway.

“We’re thinking seriously about it,” Branson said at a press conference. “The late flights into Haneda would work well.”

Business travel, which traditionally accounts for about 40 percent of sales at international carriers in the Asia-Pacific region, has fallen as businesses slash costs to cope with the global recession.

The slide in global passenger traffic slowed for the first time in seven months in April falling 3.1 percent from a year earlier, compared with an 11 percent drop in March, according to the International Air Transport Association.

“This year will likely be the worst year in the history of aviation,” Branson told reporters today after announcing his Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. will start code-sharing with All Nippon Airways Co. on Tokyo-London services in August. “Virgin Atlantic is prepared for what is going to be a very difficult year for all airlines.”

Interesting, Phuket, Joberg and Tokyo "soon". Well we won't die trying thats for sure.

wirgin blew

2nd Jun 2009, 21:50

Also
Pacific Blue expected to fly out of Hamilton and BOP | BUSINESS News (http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/pacific-blue-expected-fly-hamilton-2766513)

Air New Zealand rival Pacific Blue is expected to announce details on Wednesday about the introduction of services from Hamilton Airport.

The Christchurch-based company, a subsidiary of Virgin Blue, has been operating Boeing 737 services at the country's four main airports for 18 months but has hinted at plans to increase its services.

Last month it took a 104-seat Embraer 190 E-Jet on a tour of the country's regional airports.

General manager Adrian Hamilton-Manns said the aircraft had been used by Virgin Blue on domestic Australian routes and could be ideal for international regional routes or New Zealand domestic operations.

The company is understood to have been in talks with regional airports including Hamilton, Palmerston North and Rotorua.

A spokesman declined to give details of Wednesday's announcement but said it would be good news for air commuters in the Waikato and Bay of Plenty regions.

Hamilton-Manns last month said regional fares had been uncompetitive in the past as there was only one player, Air New Zealand and its subsidiaries.

Hamilton as well :ok:

tourismman

3rd Jun 2009, 01:06

It was announced today 3 a week BNE-HLZ and 3 a week SYD-HLZ starts early September.:)

Dubya

3rd Jun 2009, 23:55

Sorry guys....where's HLZ?
thanks.....

Marauder

4th Jun 2009, 01:18

Good'ay Dubya,

HLZ=Hamilton, in the land where men are men and sheep are nervous

NEOPLAN

7th Jun 2009, 04:38

Lets not forget the good old days when we were slugged big time for example $600 bris adel bris perth$900 ansett taa gave the industry a bad name.

Goat Whisperer

7th Jun 2009, 05:55

So...

Is the Hamilton service going to be VB or PB crew? (I know it will be PB branded)

And E190 or 737?

If PB crew and E190 there will be a lot of work to get crew trained and the type on the NZ AOC by September, so I expect Aus based crew, but could still be either type.

Looks like the 30 hr layover that the Aus based crew enjoy in Wlg (and one per week 54 hour!) but what do you do on a Hamilton overnight?? Can't wait for one of the crew to pack for Hamilton Island and wind up in Hamilton NZ.

GE90115BL2

7th Jun 2009, 06:12

Let's hope they fly to Hamilton New Zealand and not Hamilton island, that would be a lot worse!!

1a sound asleep

8th Jun 2009, 13:02

VA is becoming a major concern. It's no secret that VA is losing buckets of cash... VA simply cannot compete against the QF/AA alliance and to a lesser extent the UA network. It's all fine attracting the infrequent holiday passenger but VA has failed to attract the frequent flyer (no USA citizen FF program is a major concern) or the buisness traveller. We all know loads are poor and revenue is way off anticipations. The downturn is only part of the problem.

I would hate VA to be DJ's undoing.

Mr. Hat

9th Jun 2009, 00:07

after experiencing it, it is not so wonderful. pray tell.

1a sound asleep

9th Jun 2009, 00:22

SYD-LAX routes

Theres no comparison UA Versus QF. QF wins hands down. VA is better than UA but QF still wins

VA suffers from an inferior FF program and no FF for US citizens - a major issue for regular pax. As a paying discount Y pax I recive .25 points for VA and .7 from QF. VA's FA are relatively fresh but do not have that air of professionalism that QF staff have - they have not quite learnt the fine details that sets QF apart (ie disturbing sleeping pax and keeping noise levels down). I am sorry to say but QF's seats are infinitely more comfortable. The VA catering is very poor. Some of the meals I tried were cheap and nasty. VA's Y class baggage limit of 32kg is worse that QF's 46kg. Connections at LAX are painful with VA has there is very limited alliance or effective interlining for connecting flights. Its the little things with QF - a better ammenity kit, ice-creams, fruit, decent sized pillows, etc.

Sorry but when I paying for a flight I will not fly VA. I have tried it several times and the hype just doesn't match the service.

Now, for those that remember AN intenational, that was a quality experienced service from the word go. VA is a different animal.

Why VA is a worry - fare levels in the real world are clsoe to that of QF. The only way they can attract pax is with hevay discounting. It's too late to relaunch with and upgraded service.

It's sad. I expected something great

Bo777

9th Jun 2009, 00:42

crew rest
Qf have old aeroplanes so they fly UA.
UA fly 744 QF fly A380/744 you uneducated _wat :ugh:

1a sound asleep

9th Jun 2009, 00:54

Crew rest (http://www.pprune.org/members/294578-crew-rest-) - I have a huge number of VBA (DJ) shares. I would like nothing more than to see VA success.

This nonsense about an aggressive Virgin group is exactly that. They are hurting more than QF at the moment. I cant see anybody going UA or QF unless its a corporate deal or for superior connections into the other US cities. Both QF and UA have similar aged 744 equipment.

I will ad that having Delta hit the market is going to cause an even great blood bath

Bo777

9th Jun 2009, 01:22

Yeah sarcasm a sure sign of a lack of intelligence or 'an emotional breakdown'. (from Emotional Intelligence)

Transition Layer

9th Jun 2009, 02:11

Crew rest.

The fact is that the Pacific has become an ocean of Red Ink for Qantas and they are very worried about how an aggressive Virgin group will effect their profits.

If things are going so great guns for Virgin Aus then why are they canning the MEL-LAX flights which were due to start in September?

When you combine that with dropping a SYD-LAX service it looks like those 777s are going to be sitting around in the Eastern Park in Sydney for a while longer.

Bo777

9th Jun 2009, 02:12

People who do this are prats and wreck this site for everybody else. Quite plainly you are in this category.:= Prat.

I dunno you tell me??? :=:=:=

puff

9th Jun 2009, 02:19

Delta haven't even started yet - going to get REAL interesting then

1a sound asleep

9th Jun 2009, 02:35

I am not talking VA down. I am being realistic, which something people need to be. Having your head in the sand is a guarnteed way to go broke. I have lost so much money, it hardly matters. BUT I would ratrher VA recognise the issues at hand and do something about it.

All these stories about VA doing well are total rubbish. If there's ever a good load factor I can assure you that is not with premium paying customers.

I know the global economic crisis has a lot to do with it but there are some blatant errors on VA's behalf...

ie.

Firstly they should have consolidated SYD-LAX before even attempting BNE oo MEL.
They need to get a competitive FF program that matched the likes of UA or QF
Better staff training in long haul service (ie close galley curtains and keep noise down)
Interline agreements BEFORE commencing
Decent Catering
Proper inflight ammenites (ie eye shades they you cant see through)
Decide whether they are a full service carrier or not - if so improve service or otherwise offer a genuine LCC service
Offer something unique to Business clas pax in the spirit of Virgin (ie. chauffer service)
Better marketing - offer vacation packages
blah blah

pylet

9th Jun 2009, 03:08

QF SYD/MEL - LAX, there's a good chance the aircraft won't be old. The 6 -400ER's are less than 10yo and have been designed around the 777 with slimmer seats, resigned o'head bins, cabin lighting and noise protection. Add the odd 380 and late model RR 400's with similar cabin configs as the ER's and the Pac flights are a fairly young fleet.

But none of this matters for the average pax. I would bet that aircraft type is the last thing that is considered (if at all) when purchasing a ticket. It comes down to price, previous experience, their friends/colleagues experiences, FF programmes etc. Delta will shake things up a little on the Pac route, but US carriers do not have good repeat business outside of FF's.

KTM525

9th Jun 2009, 04:03

Its great to see that you are vocal and loyal to VA Crew Rest., but as someone else here has said its another thing to stick your head in the sand and deny what is happening. I recently hear of load factors in the region of 60 pax! and this from VA crew. (Mind you this was after a few coldies!:ok:)I have nothing against VA as i have a few close friends working there and they love the work (sounds like more fun than QF at the moment), but the concern they have about the long term viability has me also concerned. I just hope things pick up soon for them, and the long term future of the Virgin group is assured. The last thing anybody wants to see is another Ansett type disaster.

On Guard

9th Jun 2009, 04:06

Speaking with someone who is CC at VA and who I used to work with about their loadings etc. she said that Business and Premium Economy were always close to full and that load factors had exceeded expectations.

Hmmm, not what I have heard. Premium will be a lot of staff travel bums, have heard prem was doing ok but overall LF not picking up and perf not good. Real shame. I agree with 1a, get a good 12mths of SYD LAX sorted - nothing else. Lease out the other two or something??

Crew rest.

9th Jun 2009, 04:07

I dont work for VA. Would like to--Currently unemployed:bored:

Romulus

9th Jun 2009, 04:12

But none of this matters for the average pax. I would bet that aircraft type is the last thing that is considered (if at all) when purchasing a ticket. It comes down to price, previous experience, their friends/colleagues experiences, FF programmes etc. Delta will shake things up a little on the Pac route, but US carriers do not have good repeat business outside of FF's.

On the contrary, I now choose the A380 wherever possible because the "passenger experience" is so much better.

I assume the same will occur when the 787 arrives.

My belief is that passenger demand will drive the uptake of newer aircraft because, given a reasonably similar price (i.e. full fare airline to full fare airline or low cost to low cost) people will become educated very quickly either through direct experience or word of mouth.

goodspeed

9th Jun 2009, 05:21

Keg

9th Jun 2009, 05:42

My little bro travels frequently between SIN and SYD. He flys the A380 (QF or SQ) every chance he gets. He'll arrange his schedule around it. They are out there and (sadly for Boeing lovers) they are increasing in number.

1a sound asleep

9th Jun 2009, 06:31

Good loads do not equal profits. VA is currently offering industry rates (anybody who has ever worked for an airline/hotel/resort, etc) less than $3000 Business for a return from BNE to LAX, just on $1000 in Y+ and less than $700 for economy. Just becasue you see one full plane please understand that this does not mean that all the pax are paying viable fares. Current fares are just to get bums on seat but do NOT pay the bills.

wirgin blew

9th Jun 2009, 07:43

All will be revealed in time. I notice that BG and co have given themselves options so things cant be going that bad. In fact I would say that it is a sign that things are going better than expected. If they expected VBA not to be around in the long term they wouldnt have bothered would they?
I cant wait for the next BITRE numbers that show how VBA have increased pax numbers. I would rather have full planes breaking even than empty planes at a loss.
:ok:

porch monkey

9th Jun 2009, 07:59

Man, there is plenty of uninformed gob****e on this thread. From both sides. Any chance some of you might wait till some real figures are forthcoming before you sprout about how good ANY of the Pacific carriers are doing?:rolleyes:

pylet

9th Jun 2009, 08:04

Yes, but you are QF employee aren't you?

Does it matter? My guess is that wirgin blew is a virgin employee! (just a huntch). In fact, why would N-BW fly VA if he is a QF employee?

I would rather have full planes breaking even than empty planes at a loss.

Wirgin, you have to consider yield when looking at load factors. Bums on seats mean SFA if the operating costs arent matched by fares. Full planes don't mean break-even!

Pole Smoker

9th Jun 2009, 08:34

as an aside:

Dick is pulling out of Virgin Nigeria.

Things may get a little messy.

:ooh:

1a sound asleep

9th Jun 2009, 08:44

Well Dick doesn't have unlimited spare cash either. Although selling 49% of VS to SQ for £600.25 million less than 10 years was his best ever move:D

topend3

9th Jun 2009, 12:20

I would agree with previous posters in that very few pax actually make an airline choice based on aircraft type. Fair enough that plane geeks will do this, but your average punter doesn't even know what plane they have been on when they get off at the other end...

Romulus

9th Jun 2009, 12:31

Holy cow! you CHOOSE the A380!

I dont know many people who would say that. In fact I know a lot of people who choose to AVOID the A380 at all costs. But that's probably because they are just not Airbus sort of people and would also avoid the entire A3 family.

Are you just pulling our collective chains???

Nope. Even my wife who was formerly type agnostic now wants me to book holidays around A380 schedules.

Quieter, larger, newer, more comfortable - list goes on.

And I'm not particulalry pro Airbus, as I said I fully expect the 787 to have similar advantages and, if that proves to be the case, will take either of the new types in preference to older types (be they A or B manufactured).

Also, I probably agree with PYLET. It all comes down to $$ and reliability 90/10.

In which case you would be suggesting QF are well and truly screwed...

Somehow I think not. Just my opinion of course.

greenslopes

9th Jun 2009, 12:34

I agree but when at a bbq and one of the guests announces " Went on the A380 last week, what a great aeroplane, what great service, what a pity all trips to London don't have the same type", folks listen. The A380 is a winner from the viewpoint of the punter and lets be real .......No punters= No Job.

B043

9th Jun 2009, 13:06

Bo777, you're a goose!..... stupid comments! :yuk:

TL, Mel-Lax cx due Syd-Per-JB and

Pylet, 14:08 good post, someone who thinks before typing! :ok:

Beer Baron

9th Jun 2009, 13:29

Crew rest, you seem to believe that V Australia is doing well and that anyone who says otherwise is wrong and probably a QF employee. Well this was written in the Australian on June 5; Mr Godfrey said the trans-Pacific market had proved tougher than envisaged.
Should we believe him???

I'm sure a competent CEO launching an airline during low season in the midst of a global recession would "envisage" losing a fair amount of money. So if things are "tougher than envisaged" then I think it safe to believe V Australia are struggling.

Beer Baron

10th Jun 2009, 01:23

Well Crew rest, if you can deduce that VA; enjoys higher than expected load factors and is doing well, very well under the circumstances from a statement by the CEO that the the trans-Pacific market had proved tougher than envisaged then there is no hope for rational debate with you.

Surely the CEO is basing his assessment on more substantial figures than your collection of anecdotal evidence.

And since Qantas have 2-3 Billion dollars cash reserves for just such a downturn then I think it safe to say your point; VA has the 'luxury' of having budgeted for losses; Qantas and UA have probably not is rubbish. Or does your anecdotal evidence indicate Virgin have 4-5 Billion floating around??

I think it safe to say they are all hurting at the moment and to presume otherwise is naive in the extreme.

vee1-rotate

10th Jun 2009, 01:29

Well Crew rest, if you can deduce that VA;
Quote:
enjoys higher than expected load factors
and
Quote:
is doing well, very well under the circumstances
from a statement by the CEO that the
Quote:
the trans-Pacific market had proved tougher than envisaged
then there is no hope for rational debate with you.

Surely the CEO is basing his assessment on more substantial figures than your collection of anecdotal evidence.

And since Qantas have 2-3 Billion dollars cash reserves for just such a downturn then I think it safe to say your point;
Quote:
VA has the 'luxury' of having budgeted for losses; Qantas and UA have probably not
is rubbish. Or does your anecdotal evidence indicate Virgin have 4-5 Billion floating around??

I think it safe to say they are all hurting at the moment and to presume otherwise is naive in the extreme.

agreed with most of the above...yet can we stop comparing cash reserves between DJ (who run a fleet of approx 50 aircraft) to Qantas (who, not including their subsidiaries, have around 130 aircraft)....of course their cash reserves will be higher :confused:

leading edge

10th Jun 2009, 02:32

Maybe the wrong thread but this may illustrate why this is a tough market for VA. Does VA have a code share with Delta in the USA?

I travel trans Pacific / or round the world 4 times per year and I am travelling MEL-LAX-JFK-LHR-SIN-MEL in the next 2 weeks J Class.
I wanted to give VA and Virgin Atlantic some business (even if the Virgin Atlantic back to Australia is via HKG and I have to use VB Premium Economy to get to and from SYD).

My travel coordinator says there is no easy hook up between LAX and JFK using any Virgin or Virgin / Delta combination. I will therefore have to book a separate flight LAX-JFK which probably means a terminal change in LAX, another check in etc. That isn't business friendly I'm afraid.

So, it looks like the usual QF/BA ticket, that's fine but how can VA compete for premium business without having a hassle free (relatively speaking) hook up between LAX and JFK?

Any ideas?

vee1-rotate

10th Jun 2009, 02:46

leading edge

10th Jun 2009, 03:27

Thank you vee 1 rotate

A missive is on its way to my travel coordinator. Why they couldn't come up with that option is beyond me....

Bo777

10th Jun 2009, 05:02

CR
Good to see someone with impeccable english skills comment on the deplorable state of literacy exhibited here on pprune.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

maui

10th Jun 2009, 06:23

Leading Edge.

You must understand that some travel agents are not averse to steering you away from whomever they get the least commission or contra, never mind your convenience. Such tactics were rampant against Compass 2, I would not doubt that they are being used again.
Case in point. Local travel agent claimed that the flights a customer requested on C2, were full, seats unavailable but hey no problem QF or AN will take you. Perusal of specific loadings proved assertions were crap.

Not that QF would be encouraging such shenanigans, of course.

Maui

Ken Borough

10th Jun 2009, 06:43

Local travel agent claimed that the flights a customer requested on C2, were full, seats unavailable but hey no problem QF or AN will take you.

QF would have had very little to do with the demise of Compass. Let's just slag AN and TN, the latter 'merging' with QF after Compass collapsed.

alangirvan

10th Jun 2009, 08:16

Going back to the collapse of the original Compass, I do remember a local Canberra Travel Agent complaining about the frustrations of trying to make a reservation with them. Not Ansett's fault, not Australian Airlines' fault. Hours of frustration for him, trying to issue tickets. He managed to do the business, because he had a personal contact at Compass, a person who had been the BA Sales Manager in the ACT.

So, it is not always the Travel Agent who is to blame when he says he cannot find you availability on the new airline.

maui

10th Jun 2009, 09:55

KB

You are correct. TN didn't morph into QF till '96. Age and lots of red dulls the memory. For the earlier post please substitute TN for QF.

I am sure QF would not indulge in such tactics, just as they would never indulge in price fixing of freight. :rolleyes:

M

1746

10th Jun 2009, 11:38

Slight correcton TAA became Australian Airlines in 1986. Australian Airlines was sold to QANTAS in 1993.

Dagger Dirk

10th Jun 2009, 12:38

There's no doubt that Virgin Blue is being managed with a an eye on the longer term view but whilst being duly cognizant of the need for present liquidity and market share strategy.
My stockbroker said, two weeks ago now, that I should in fact buy and expect 85c by EOY2009 and $1.09 by 30 Jun 2010.
I think I'll follow his advice - mainly because he's been much more right than wrong (since Nov 2005 anyway).

Feel free to poke fun at me in Jun 2010.... if it proves to be a pig-in-a-poke.

leading edge

10th Jun 2009, 15:50

vee 1 rotate and maui

Virgin option checked but the departure ex SYD is later than QF, then the Virgin America connection to JFK involves a 5 hour layover in LAX and won't get me to JFK until 0550 on the day I am due in the office,

QF gets me there at 1730 the day before I am due in the office so a night's sleep in the hotel and fresh (ish) for the day ahead.

I like VB and I always use their Premium Economy for domestic travel. I thought I would try the international product as I am in the fortunate and these days unusual position of my employer giving me a choice.

I tried but it will be QF and BA combined who get my business this time

Sand dune Sam

10th Jun 2009, 21:50

N-BW..and how is the A380 better than the B777-300? You say you are an A380 employee, so give us your experienced run down on it....While your at it, how about with your expert knowledge, give us all a breakdown of the efficiency of the A380 compared to the B777-300ER...I'm sure we would all benefit from and take your posts way more seriously if you can back up what you say..

lc_461

10th Jun 2009, 21:53

Nothing compares to the Qantas A380

the 777 is hilarious compared to our A380

NBW, What is it with the VA bashing? I have serious doubts that you have ever flown in a VA 777... You are full of it. There is absolutlely no need to be bashing VAs products. Your comments have no substance.

:mad:

fire wall

10th Jun 2009, 22:59

Not aligned with either carrier but would appreciate a comment from an informed source re depress mandatory fuel requirement for syd lax on 380. Rumour is it is restrictive.

DutchRoll

10th Jun 2009, 23:51

Yeah I must admit I'm a little confused about how "our" A380 is better than the 777 too, and I'm QF! Well, aside from the fact that it is obviously shinier.

Internal sources have led me to believe that our A380 is not performing as expected - now that would be a surprise.

Bo777

11th Jun 2009, 01:57

Dutch Roll
Internal sources have led me to believe that our A380 is not performing as expected - now that would be a surprise.
I've heard the same from people who don't have a f:mad: clue but it's all BS.
I can't see why yourconfused when comparing the A380 to the 777:confused: Please enlighten us with your concerns.

-438

11th Jun 2009, 05:44

Dagger Dirk,
I'm not sure if you are taking the piss or not, but for your stock broker to be telling you Virgin stock price will almost triple in value in the next 6-7 months is a big call considering the current market.
There must be some very good results forthcoming.
I'm not going to advise you not to buy them.
Good luck, I hope it works out.

On Guard

13th Jun 2009, 00:26

Out of the age 10 hrs ago. 60%LF VA, 72% UA, 75% QF, premium loads poor.

VIRGIN BLUE subsidiary Pacific Blue is expected to join V Australia in posting a loss this year, raising speculation it could exit the New Zealand domestic market within the next 18 months.
Pacific Blue has flown on main-trunk routes within NZ for the past 18 months, but faced a tougher proposition this week when Jetstar replaced its parent, Qantas, on domestic services.
Macquarie Equities said it was difficult to see two low-cost carriers operating within NZ in the longer term against the government-owned incumbent, Air New Zealand. "It would not be surprising to see Pacific Blue reduce its services or exit entirely within 18 months," the broker said.
Virgin Blue has been redeploying 737-800s from Australia to Pacific and trans-Tasman routes over the past six months. Pacific Blue will boost its trans-Tasman services in September with flights between Sydney and Brisbane and four additional NZ cities. Macquarie estimates Pacific Blue will post an $11 million loss before earnings, interest and tax this financial year, a turnaround on an $18 million profit last year.

The broker also said passenger numbers for V Australia suggested a slower than expected take-up, while Virgin management had indicated disappointing demand for premium classes.
V Australia has scaled back some direct flights from Sydney to Los Angeles as competitors scramble amid falling demand on the trans-Pacific route. Passengers booked on some direct V Australia flights between the two cities are having to travel via Brisbane on domestic aircraft.
The long-haul carrier's load factor for the trans-Pacific route in March was almost 60 per cent, Macquarie Equities said, compared with United Airline's 72 per cent and Qantas' 75 per cent.
Competition will intensify next month when Delta Air Lines begins daily services between Los Angeles and Sydney. But some industry insiders question whether the US carrier is committed to the route in the longer term.
Despite a stronger Australian dollar, Macquarie said it was unlikely passenger numbers to the US would increase over the next year. A recovery in yields on the route was likely to be slower than anticipated because of discounting in premium and economy classes, it said. Return fares on the trans-Pacific have been selling for about $1000 in recent months.

ANstar

13th Jun 2009, 01:44

Given VA have only been on the route for less than 4 months I would have thought a 60% load was good in comaprison to the incumbents??

Wod

13th Jun 2009, 12:41

Given VA have only been on the route for less than 4 months I would have thought a 60% load was good in comaprison to the incumbents??

Fair comment under normal circumstances, unfortunately yields are down and Delta arrives in a few weeks time. Not good for anybody, but worse for a start-up carrier I fear.

hongkongfooey

13th Jun 2009, 14:15

but for your stock broker to be telling you Virgin stock price will almost triple in value in the next 6-7 months is a big call

" Big Call " nah, not really, just shows that crack is still the recreational drug of choice in the financial sector.

High-Bypass

13th Jun 2009, 16:06

Just did a quick look @ the ASX..VBA shares closed @ 33c. Not bad if you were fortunate enough to get in around the 15/20c mark. :ok:

Also took a quick squiz @ the Woolworths website. 1 can of Lovitts regular dog food, $1.39.

So 1 share, in Australias 2nd biggest airline, is worth less than a can of dog food?? :confused: Get in now..or get out now ??

1a sound asleep

14th Jun 2009, 12:08

Unfortunately a 60% load factor at heavily discounted fare levels doesn't even cover operating costs. Additionally VA is not attracting the vital premium class passengers either

neville_nobody

15th Jun 2009, 00:42

I think you will find the 80 is not performing as well as what Airbus claimed it would. The 777 however outperformed design expectations when brought into service. As an aircraft the 777 wipes the floor with the 80, however the quality of the in-flight technology and service is really a question of how much money the airline wants to spend on it.

1a sound asleep

15th Jun 2009, 09:08

Another PR message brought to you by your resident QF employee....:ok:

topend3

15th Jun 2009, 12:24

N-BW most people think you are full of **** and I agree. You obviously have a very objective viewpoint.

VBPCGUY

17th Jun 2009, 22:43

VBA Shares were the top gainer in trading yesterday on the ASX

VBA (http://markets.news.com.au/newscorp/entry.aspx?secid=VBA) Virgin Blue (http://markets.news.com.au/newscorp/entry.aspx?secid=VBA) 0.345 +6.15% OZL (http://markets.news.com.au/newscorp/entry.aspx?secid=OZL) OZ Minerals Limited (http://markets.news.com.au/newscorp/entry.aspx?secid=OZL) 0.965 +6.04% CSR (http://markets.news.com.au/newscorp/entry.aspx?secid=CSR) CSR Limited (http://markets.news.com.au/newscorp/entry.aspx?secid=CSR) 1.59 +6.00%

Bo777

18th Jun 2009, 01:09

CR
There are very few aircraft that haven't had teething problems when first introduced. When the triple 777 first came out it was known as the cripple 777. :ugh:

oldhasbeen

18th Jun 2009, 03:00

Sorry, but " tripple 777 " must go with the " WAC chart":eek:

airtags

19th Jun 2009, 00:10

crew rest -
Miranda does write some good stuff but this one has all the indicators of a quiet news day and a looming deadline to file 'something', or maybe the upgrade didn't happen.......?

The writing is weak, no verifiable first person accounts and very wobbly links to stuff that has come off other news sources. In short, a subjective pitch that does little but to fill a few centimetres.

Does not let QF off the hook by any means - but like some of the overhyped speculation around VOZ profits & VB shares, it is hardly an authorative piece of writing.

AT

Mr. Hat

19th Jun 2009, 00:19

So whats the latest on new routes and aircraft at VB? Its been quiet for a while...

murdoch_disliker

19th Jun 2009, 00:26

Re the LAX run, staff travel not recommended on this route due to heavy loads at the present time. Must be coming right if thats the case.

Mr. Hat

19th Jun 2009, 00:41

Another thread saying qf cutting La flights.

Going Boeing

19th Jun 2009, 01:37

QF loads across the Pacific are also heavy at present due to seasonal influences - mid year school holidays in Oz & the big summer holidays coming up in the US. I've no idea on the yield though and that is the critical thing for an airlines financial well being.

My read on the announcement of reduction in QF services is just formalising what is already happening with flights being cancelled when loads are light, ie there has been 1-2 AKL-LAX cancellations per week as well as occasional BNE-LAX and QF11/12 SYD-LAX flights. Flights are adjusted in an attempt to maximise yield (ie minimise losses) whilst minimising disruptions to pax - it's a fine balancing act. From what I've been hearing, V Oz is doing the same thing, adjusting flights to suit the loads.

Delta's start on 1st July will look good for the first month due to US summer holiday demand and the B777-200LR looks to be a good sized aircraft to develop a new international route, but in the long term, the competition will be cut-throat. I suspect that there won't be profits made on the route for a couple of years & it's quite probable that United will withdraw from its Oz routes to stop the heamoraging of cash.

Skybus_319

19th Jun 2009, 02:32

United Boss came out not long ago saying they are willing to accrue losses because in the long run its still a good investment to keep. So who will back out, none of them!?:uhoh:

All 4 of them have their pro's:
-QF has its A380, FF, and the usual loyal QF customer..
-United has its excellent connections on the other end to nearly everywhere
-DL also has good connections/new fleet/big presence at the other end
-VA seems to have the Virgin flair, and have tried Premium Economy myself and would say its the best product across the pacific. Great IFE also.

I will take a punt and say QF might drop a couple of services, perhaps United might downgrade.

inandout

19th Jun 2009, 04:15

barrybeebone

20th Jun 2009, 15:50

blood has to be spilt and my thoughts below

If delta is first to pull out then they just take the backup plan which is to code share with Virgin.

United - as others say they are in chapter 11 but they are also the only star alliance operator on the route so they do have a large potential customer base in Australia...not sure about US???

QF - my guess is the current flights being dropped are the last...assuming the forecasters get it right and the market has already bottomed out

Virgin - hard to see them pulling out as they have invested so much...code sharing with delta is probably their ultimate goal in the current climate and will deliver better yields

Red Jet

21st Jun 2009, 00:19

Hell, lets get this into some perspective. Both DL and UA are in chapter 11 which is the same as 'Get out of jail free card' whilst STILL amassing hugh losses. In contrast QF and VB have to play with there hands tied behind there backs on a very uneven playing field. Both DL and UA should have gone long ago, BUT Chapter 11 just keeps them going as if they were owned by the Government with endless resources and little or no accountability.

Hell, let's check our facts too!!
United Airlines emerged from Chapter 11 protection in February 2006 after the bankruptcy courts approved their restructuring plan in January of the same year. Delta Airlines along with its debtors also emerged from Chapter 11 in the northern summer of 2007.

They are commercial entities that carry no government protection (other than some US guvmint-travellers using their "own" airlines when crossing the Pacific. Hardly any different to the deals struck between QANTAS (and to a lesser degree VA) and the Australian government.