Bessoneau Hangar at RAF Odiham

[Grimweasel]

Hello all,
Just after a quick bit of advice. At RAF Odiham we have a Bessoneau Hangar that we believe is the last standing example in the UK. It was built, we think, for the First WW, but we can't be 100% sure. We know that there were hangars at RAF Odiham in the great war but we can't sure if this exact one was there at the time of the war. It was re-canvased by Rubb in the 1980's but the original wooden frame is still extant. In Jan of this year the hangar was condemed as the structure has warped in places and there are cracks in the original 1907 wood!!

We (the Stn) has been tasked with disposing of the hangar as DE have said it's of no further use. Currently, it may be heading for New Zealand, but I'm concerned that it may be lost for ever. This could be seen as an important part of our WW1 heritage and I believe that Lottery funding could be an angle to save it for the nation.

Has anyone got any advice on the historical element and if there would be anyone in the UK interested in keeping it here as an important part of our history?

[touchpaper]

It surprises me that this building is not listed if its that old. You may want to look into the local history especially planning consents/local historians who should be able to advise.

[Grimweasel]

Thanks Touch,
We have contacted the local council and they have said it's a 'building of interest'; we only need to keep photographic evidence and that's it! I was a little surprised. Thanks again for the rec though.

[taxydual]

Try the RAF Museum Reserve at Cosford.

RAF Museum London & Cosford air force museums free family days out (http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/)

They've bits of one, I believe. Maybe they would stump up for a whole one.

Failing that, a gallon of petrol and a match. Think of the insurance claim!!! Psst. I didn't really say that. :O:O

[Spurlash2]

Grimweasel

I reckon the RAF Museum Reserve Collection, at MOD Stafford, might be interested. Or even the RAF Museum, itself!

[8-15fromOdium]

I had to do some digging around English Heritage today, on a similar subject and was made aware of the following document:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Aviation%20Sites.pdf?1240434513

In it they say they:
English Heritage has carried out a thorough review of England’s 20thcentury military heritage, including studies of airfields, airfield defences and Cold War monuments. A thematic survey report of military aviation sites and structures, first issued as a consultation document in 2000, has identified approximately 170 buildings and structures deemed worthy of listing at 33 separate sites. A small number of additional sites have been identified as nationally important following English Heritage’s subsequent assessment of Cold War sites.

Grimweasel, I suggest you give EH a call,as if they've got it listed it makes it very difficult to move. Appendix 1 (p19) of the linked document has a number of contacts as well as EH the Air Historical Branch may be useful.

Anyway best of luck.

[exscribbler]

Can such a structure be listed? Surely a Bessoneau Hangar is like a big tent and so is a temporary building. The RAFM reserve collection allegedly has a complete CKD example:

WW1 Treasures at RAFM Reserve Collection - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1393743)

[Mandator]

Lots of comment on the Airfield Information Exchange forum. Will try and get a url.

Edit: see here ref restoration of Stow Maries Aerodrome:

Airfield Information Exchange - The Public Forums of The Airfield Research Group (ARG) • View topic - RESTORATION OF STOW MARIES WW1 AERODROME. (http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2179&p=22898#p22898)

[GeeRam]

Has anyone got any advice on the historical element and if there would be anyone in the UK interested in keeping it here as an important part of our history?

Funny you should post this as earlier on I was reading this thread of FP about the proposed restoration of an old RFC airfield in Essex and the indications were they were after your hanger but have been told it's going to NZ..??

So, yes it would appear an ideal home in the UK could be found for it.

Link to thread here
RFC Aerodrome to be restored in the UK - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=88838)

Edit: got beaten to it :D

[effects]

Grim,
where abouts is this Hangar? I think aircraft ops from Odiham did not start until 1925.

[clicker]

What about Duxford, would they be interested?

[Mandator]

Think the Bessoneau is used by the Kestrel Gliding Club, which has photos of it on their website. I am sure that it is not original to Odiham but it seems to be the last one in the world.

As for Duxford, they won't be interested in anything like this - it might cost them money and they don't have any of that (judging by the ticket prices for the air show next month!!). Duxford is only interested in the multi-million creations of Sir Norman Foster.

[Jackonicko]

Didn't there used to be one at Halton?

[ACW367]

621 VGS at Weston-Super-Mare airfield operated from a Bessaneau into the 1990's until they moved to Hullavington. I can remember many times climbing the ladder to lace up the canvas doors which were a couple of inches less wide than the Grob Vikings 17 metre wingspan. When the VGS moved, the canvas was removed and stored inside the empty Sqn HQ building but the wooden frame remained for at least another 10 years.

A picture of the hanger taken in the 1980's can be seen in this post

http://www.pprune.org/4705295-post207.html

It has now been completely dismantled and just the hardstanding that the hanger stood on at the end of Moor Ln appears on the Google Earth image taken June 2006.

[chevvron]

There were several at Halton; I also saw one at Akrotiri c1986.

[Wensleydale]

The Shuttleworth Collection at Old Warden might be interested - they have a good collection of WWI replica aircraft, and an original hangar may be good for them? I am not connected with them myself, but I am sure contact details would be available on the web.

W

[thunderbird7]

Definitely used to be one at Wethersfield which the VGS used for their Flying Bricks.

[1.3VStall]

Grimweasel,

Bomber Command Heritage might be another useful contact - the organisation is currently trying to establish a museum at the former RAF Bicester.

[Hot Charlie]

The Shuttleworth Collection at Old Warden might be interested - they have a good collection of WWI replica aircraft

They have a good collection of original WWI (and earlier) aircraft too.:)

[snapper41]

You need to speak to the Air Historical Branch at Northolt; they have an interest in RAF heritage buildings. PM me for contact info.

[philrigger]

;)

Google is your friend.


Bessoneau hangar
A Great War portable canvas hangar. 4 types of Bessoneau were created by Julien Bessoneau in France from 1910, of which the most common measured 20m x 24m.

[GeeRam]

You need to speak to the Air Historical Branch at Northolt; they have an interest in RAF heritage buildings.

Apart from the hangar they've just recently demolished there of course....:rolleyes:

[NutLoose]

I know everyone is harking on about it may go to NZ. but if it is who I think it is it will be well looked after, is it perchance going to Mr Peter Jackson of The Lord Of The Rings fame and soon to be the New Dambusters, he has been quietly building a fleet of WW1 aircraft including some that have not graced the skies for over 70 Yrs

see
The Vintage Aviator | Constructors Of Military Aircraft (http://www.thevintageaviator.co.nz./)


They have also brought out a range of stunning models to build, see
Wingnut Wings (http://wingnutwings.com/ww/)

If it is, then what a deserving cause.

Problem with the UK an all things aviation, it will be a half hearted affair and will always struggle for money to fund it.

Just stunning, though Constuctors is a new one on me ;)
http://www.thevintageaviator.co.nz./files/images/fe-2b/screensize/fe2b-9912-side-view.screensize.jpg

[Grimweasel]

Thanks very much for the leads guys. I'll have to do some more digging wrt lisitng etc; the local council are not that bothered it seems!
I'll keep you posted on developments.
Rgds
Danny

[philrigger]

;)

Could we please have a photo of the hangar in question ?

Thanks.

[NutLoose]

PhilR, The original bones can be seen on the link here

Untitled Document (http://www.kestrel-gliding.org.uk/Kestrelframeset.htm)

and details about it here

Untitled Document (http://www.kestrel-gliding.org.uk/Kestrelframeset.htm)

hope that helps :)




http://www.kestrel-gliding.org.uk/Ground%20equipment/ground%20equipmentnew.jpg

[ianp]

Grim,

On a similar vein I remember one of the hangars at RNAS Portland was listed and saved from demolition as it was an old seaplane hangar from the first world war. Might be a precedent set here?

Good luck anyway

[Grimweasel]

Thanks again for all the links.
I think I will contact the local council again. The H&S inspectors have condemned the hangar and the gliding club have moved out. Some of the structure has deformation and cracks, hence the need to forbid usage.

Hope I've not opened a can of worms here as we (the RAF) could really use the space for other projects. I would like to see the hangar saved and put to good use but the MoD has no appetite for saving it.

[Papa Whisky Alpha]

I first visited the Army Gliding Club in April 1965 and the Bessaneau Hangar was not there at that time. I returned a couple of years later and the Gliding Club was housed in a Hangar on the far side of the airfield, "down the dip". I returned again in '73 and the Bessanau Hangar was in use. To the best of my knowledge it was not there on my earlier visits. So although an old hangar it was not at Odiham when first produced.

[Aeronut]

Weston Super Mare aerodrome opposite RAF Locking also had a Bessoneau hangar in the early 1990s.

[621andy]

Aeronut-The wooden frame of the hangar is still there, although the fabric is looong gone. Got a little souvenir scrap at home somewhere though;).

[ACW367]

621 Andy

Can you confirm that the frame is still standing. I checked the Google Earth image which is dated 2006 and it appears to be dismantled, leaving just the concrete hardstanding.

Regards
ACW367

[FantomZorbin]

Re: the Odious Hangar

I'm led to believe that this hangar arrived from Kemble in the 1970s and was not part of the original establishment of the station. It's been suggested that it would be unlikely to get an import permit for NZ on account of the myriad types of livestock (fungi and insects) that infest the thing!

[Mechta]

Anyone who thinks that there is wildlife living in the wooden structure of the Odiham Bessonneau hangar, hasn't seen it! The wooden parts are coated with creosote or tar-like substances (probably long since banned!), and any heebygeeby would have to have a very strong stomach to try and munch through it.

Whilst it is true to say that minor parts (diagonal roof braces between trusses) of the structure have distorted in places, this is due to nuts having detached from bolts due to the constant flexing of the structure in the wind, and insufficient wire bracing on the end of the hangar facing the prevailing wind. The gliding club have long been banned from attempting to perform maintenance on the hangar (it used to receive a visit from skilled personnel from RAF Sealand until the unit was disbanded).

If the correct bracing wires were restored, the nuts loctited to the bolts, which secure the wooden parts to each other, and snow poles lowered as the weather dictates, there is no reason why this hangar should not last for years with routine maintenance.

As I understand it, if anyone wants the hangar, they would have to put together a plan to dismantle the hangar which pays full attention to the health and safety and insurance implications of doing so (working at height etc.), or employ a contractor who is already so equipped.

[Grimweasel]

Mechta

You are indeed correct. The NZ thing has fallen thru so if anyone would like a 'free' hangar they can PM me. The only issue is that you will have to come and take it down at your own expense and comply with all the regs as Machta states.

Defence Estates have no further use for the bldg and we would like the site free for the new Kestrel hangar.

[Green Flash]

Perhaps the IWM should aquire it? I'm sure they could find a hanger shaped space at Duxford;)

[lastgasp]

Grimweasel

Haven't seen it mentioned here thus far, - apologies if it has already been.

I don't know much about them, but the Airfield Conservation Trust are also active in this field - abct.org.uk

Best of luck.

[tristar 500]

Does anybody know if the hangar is still available?

tristar500

[Mechta]

It was still there on 1 Nov. There was some talk of renewed interest in it from foreign parts though.

[lelolo44]

I have messages from someone in charge of that hangar disposal, saying we were interested to save it in france, they said it was already taken by another foreigner...since then no news ...and here i read that it is still there ???
can somebody specify the real situation as we are in france very keen to maintain a part of our history if UK surprisingly is not...usually it is brits that halp saving what frenchs don't...

[Grimweasel]

Sadly I have to report the demise of the Bessoneau Hangar at RAF Odiham - the heavy snow fall recently was too much for the old gal and the central roof trusses gave way and the roof collapsed. There is an interested party that still intends to come and salvage what they can from the ruins. I'll post some pics later. :(

[lelolo44]

how is it possible to save the struture than could be saved ? any contact ??

[chevvron]

Why were the Snow Props not lowered? It was SOP at Halton at ALL times of year irrespective of weather; pack the hangar in such a way as to leave space, then lower them before securing the doors.

[KeithChandler]

Snow props dont always save the day! All the snow props were down in the one at Kenely and that collapsed under the snow load, ( Ihave pictures to prove it) writing off the ASW19 (Valiant) and serverley damaging two Vikings.
The hanger was then re-built and serviced until such time as the RAF service team we no longer able to do it within the H&S Rules that were imposed upon them when the RAF lost its imunity.
It was eventually dismantled and left in a pile while the new tin hanger was built (Circa 1982).
I thought it was collected by Kestrel staff from Odiham for spares to keep their hanger going, but I may be wrong.

[Mechta]

The Odiham Bessonneau hangar had been out of bounds for some months, so it is quite possible that the snow poles were not in place. If they were down, a rope between each pair might have helped to prevent them spreading.

It had been noted some months ago, that, for some reason, the snow poles were not going to nodes (junctions of component parts) but to midway between them, so they wouldn't have carried as much load as they might otherwise have done.

Having said that, we have had more snow here this winter than I can remember. It was probably the snow turning to slush that was the final straw.

Given its modular design, hopefully the interested party can still make use of it. Otherwise, a sad end for a historic type of building.:sad:

[KeithChandler]

The original design was that the snow props were between nodes which was a crazy design especially since the bottom truss member was flat (ie wider than it was tall). I'm a building Engineer by proffession so I pointed this out to the repair team when the came to rebuild ours and whilst they said it was "normal" they agreed it was illogical and they moved them to next closest node point.
I think the hanger was removed before it was ever put to test.

[Grimweasel]

I have some pics. How do I upload onto here as when I try it asks for a web link?? The pics are on my hard drive!

[henry crun]

Read the sticky towards the top of the forum page, http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/203154-image-posting-pprune-some-tips-you.html

[rozoord]

yeah, we need to speak to the Air Historical Branch at Northolt

tent structures (http://www.deboer.com/)

[ColinB]

Does anyone know what became of the one at Halton?

[tristar 500]

ColinB said, Does anyone know what became of the one at Halton?

I will ask what happened to the one at Odiham, did it get scrapped?

tristar500
edit same comment written twice.

[chevvron]

There were two at Halton up to about '92 or '93'(although one of these could have been the later imitation 'HAS'). After they were dismantled I've no idea what became of them, probably scrapped as the fabric was worn and torn. The former occupants were moved into the main hangars then as all the JPs and Gnats used for training brats had gone.
I remember seeing one at Akrotiri in '86, down near the harbour.

[Nuuumannn]

There used to be one in Edinburgh being used as a storage building on a sports ground that had been cut into two. One half burned down in the early 1990s and the other was dismantled when the sports ground was redeveloped. What happened to it I'm not sure. It was reclad with weather board and originally came from the WW1 airship station at East Fortune.

[skydiver69]

BBC News - A listed WWI hangar in Wiltshire is to be demolished (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-17702364)

'A listed WWI hangar in Wiltshire is to be demolished'