Scares - How did you deal with them?

[airbourne]

Now Im sure this happens to a lot of people a lot of the time, especially when training. Its all about getting used to the machine etc etc, BUT how do you deal with scares?

My little problem, just back from a nice solo, coming into land, about 20 feet off the ground, I accidently put in too much right pedal and the heli started to spin. Cue panic, put in the left pedal but put in too much and it went the other way. Took me a couple of seconds to get my head together but by which time I had raised the collective and was 100ft up and half way across the field. Got myself together and got the heli down and checked my pants!!

It knocked me back a bit and since it happened I keep thinking about it a lot. Whether youre a student or an experienced pilot, how do you deal with those scares?

Cheers lads,

[FLY 7]

Sometimes making a mistake is the best way to learn.

BTW, raising the collective could make it suddenly spin right again.

[Rich Lee]

Although a little adrenaline at the right time can be beneficial, training and experience will help you manage those frightening moments.

[airbourne]

So I noticed a lot more when it happened. Seemed like an eternity, but it was all about 10 seconds if not less.

[dragman]

It's all part of the learning curve. The best thing you can do is sit down and go through why it happened, how it happened, how to recognise the clues so it doesn't happen again.

Many students don't have the maturity (I'm not suggesting this is you!) to accept they made a mistake, or even learn from them.

Don't let it mess with your head and affect the rest of your training.

DM

[airbourne]

Haha Oh I definatly know I made a mistake! Just have to learn from it. Get some money together and go back and finish up. Just the skills test and Ive got my PPL(h). So Im a happy man for the most part.

[Two's in]

Everyone has a "moment", whether it's as graphic as airbourne's or a little less dramatic. Two points; (1) Learn from it and understand why it happened so repeats are less likely, (2) If you do find yourself repeating it, get some professional assistance from an instructor or someone with more experience. You'll be amazed how many people do bizarre things in a helicopter for no apparent reason.

[heli-man]

Sit down, analyse it, learn from it, but don't dwell on it. It has probably made you a better 'more rounded' pilot.

[JTobias]

Chat about it with an instructor, or someone more experienced, that way you'll get it off your chest and stop it from eating away at you.

Analyse what you did wrong, sort it out, and make sure you learn from it.

And finally make sure you go flying again asap so you don't knock your confidence.

Joel

[helonorth]

It sounds like you completely lost control of the helicopter, which kind of alarms me a little, as I have really never seen or really heard of this happening(at least for the length of time you indicated). You probably should not fly again until you get a little more dual time. No offense, but what you describe sounds dangerous, not just a little scary.

[mightynimbus]

I remember an occasion in training when low level around salisbury plain, solo, and was about to pop up to do an oblique terrain crossing to starboard over a ridge, pulled up and rolled right, heard a load bang and started yawing a shed load to the left, poohed my pants, rolled wings level expecting a tail rotor related failure and discovered that the starboard yaw pedal had snapped off almost level with the deck! Found that a boot tread onto the stub of the pedal did the trick.What to be learned from this training incident? - wear brown underpants!!
Deal with scares by knowing your stuff - inside out, and that starts with minute detail of your flying machine, avoided brown pants many a time by understanding whats going on and with what.

[Paddyviking]

As an instructor I've seen students make quite a few mistakes, most of them normal learning mistakes with the odd one or two a little scary.
What I found with experience was that the better the student was prepared for the lesson the less likely there was of a scary moment.
Hence a good preflight brief is most important in which you can point out possible/potential mistakes which lead to scary moments.
I never rushed anyone into going solo, better to do a few more dual hours
and gain more confidence and ability than to risk an accident/scary moment.
Airbourne if this scare has knocked your confidence then do more dual time untill both you and your instructor are happy for you to go solo again.
remember that it,s not a race, but do get back in the air as soon as possible.
Saying all that some students no matter how much prep you do with them
and no matter how well they fly, still catch you when your guard is down
by doing something silly/scary. Only experience can prepare you for these
moments--self preservation is a great thing.

If you have any difficulties which bother you discuss it with your instructor untill you are satisfied.

Fly safe :ok:
Pv

[airbourne]

Helonorth, I did not ‘completely lose control of the helicopter’ If that had happened, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I did what I was always trained and taught to do. FLY THE HELICOPTER! I am not a total expert, I am a student so mistakes will happen as they happen with any student. I came on to Pprune, a site that I am a member of for nearly 9 years to ask the good people here how they deal with scares but your reply doesn’t help me and I personally think its over the top.

All the others,

The basic message coming through here is more dual time, which I fully intend to do. Go back and get some more dual. Go and check all the basic flying stuff and do loads of take off and landings until I can do it in my sleep.

[helonorth]

Okay , maybe it's over the top, but if I saw one of my students yawing erratically, climb 100' and "end up half way across the field", I would wonder why I let you solo, turn you over to another instructor and do some soul searching about what the hell I was thinking. I tried to be nice.

[airbourne]

No, you didnt try to be nice, you went out of your way not to be nice but to be critical of every action I took. I dont need your 'high and almighty' opinion. Its not what I sought when i started this thread. But I am really not surprised. You must have been the perfect student pilot, and never made one mistake in your life. Do us all a favour, and come down off your very high horse.

Once again, for the other members posting here, I thank you for your input.

[Bicster]

Just to say I have never flown a helicopter but I was just groundcrew rigging loads and refueling helicopters in the RAF, have been solo in a Venture T2 though. I have to say that if I was on that airfield and an out of control aircraft was in difficulty then I would be looking at 1. Where to run and 2. What is it going to hit. If I was you I would get some more dual time in to go through the process as to why this happened so it doesnt happen again or if it does you will be better prepared. Im not on my high horse at all here, I just wouldnt like to be reading about another statistic. I hope you get back in the air very soon and enjoy your flying :ok:

[4ftHover]

Airbourne

I had a situation a couple of years ago in a 22 shortly after gaining my PPL. A phrase regarding robbos 'fly like a bird, sting like a bee' you hear it alot and i think most pilots have had a moment at some time or another.

I suffered numerous sleepless nights and some serious soul searching as to whether i wanted to continue flying.

Thanks to some excellent FI's my confidence restored i now love flying again, and i learnt a hell of alot in those few seconds and looking back i'm glad it happened.

I would rather get bitten, walk away, learn from it and improve as a pilot ......................

[Whirlybird]

This reminds me of a similar incident I had as a student. I had finished some solo circuits and was on the grass about to return to the flying school when a gust of wind caught the helicopter. I never knew precisely what I did or didn't do, but I lost control of the helicopter. So I did what I had been told to do under such circumstances - I got away from the ground and things I could hit! In other words, I raised the collective. At around 30 ft, I sorted it all out, turned into wind, and came back down to a hover. I was now in a bit of a quandary, as I suspected that the wind was too strong for me, and that as soon as I turned I would lose control again. At that point my instructor called me on the radio, told me to land, and said he'd come and get me...which he did. He was grinning, and said I'd handled it well.

Now, Airbourne, let's look at what you did RIGHT. You put in opposite pedal, though in your panic you put in too much. OK, that's called inexperience; next time you'll keep calmer and react without over-reacting. Then you did exactly the right thing by getting away from the ground...but again, it sounds like you overdid it a bit. Then you sorted things out. Then you had a think about what had happened and came on here to ask some more experienced pilots. That all sounds pretty good to me.

The main problem seems to be that it's knocked your confidence, and for that reason - and that reason alone - I'd suggest going up with an instructor till you get it back. If, however, you can simply see it as one of those things that happens to an inexperienced pilot and learn from it, then I don't see why you need to do anything other than what you were already doing, ie practise until you get better at it. Note when I say this that I know nothing about you other than what you've said, and your instructor may see it differently of course.

IMHO, one or two people on here are making too big a deal of this...but they're entitled to their opinions. And if you ask on PPRuNe, you'll get all sorts of answers. But in my experience these things happen when you're learning to fly. I see nothing in what you've said that would make me worried if you were my student.

So get back up there, and safe flying.:ok:

[Barndweller]

Whirls speaks the truth!

Scared the pants off myself a couple of times when training - on one occasion i ended up in an OGE hover well above the sloping ground wondering what the hell had just happened (i later figured out exactly what had happened and certainly learned from it).

If you need a bit more dual to get your confidence back then take it. Listen to what your instructor has to say (he knows more than we do about your case) and learn from yourself about what happened. As Whirls says - you seem to have done the right thing but overdone it.

Get back out and enjoy!

Safe flying

[rotorspin]

I remember my first engine off in hover in a 22, instructor said "wait till it starts to sink then pull firm on lever to settle on ground"

I pulled firm and hard on the lever but had forgot to wait for it to sink first, so we ended up 20-30 ft in the air. My instructor went white and said "errrrrr....this isn't good"..... luckily he rapidly brought engine back in and we recovered before we hit the ground, all so quick and over in seconds! Still remember it to the day and don't even need to think about enigine off's in hover now...

Still think about that plus my other "learning experiences" since, but now fly a Jetranger and love every minute of it!!! (I still regularly fly 22's and 44's also) ALL helicopters have their sting!!!

Its all a learning experience and I think you have had some great advice on here! With weather so good this week what are you waiting for? Call your instructor and jump in that 22 quickly!!!

:)

[mikelimapapa]

"so we ended up 20-30 ft in the air"

The 22 you fly had enough inertia to pull you 20-30ft up, I want to fly that one ;)

[airbourne]

Eddie, flight hours - About 55 hours fixed wing, just about go and do the exams when Type1 Diabetes got the better of me in 2004 and I was grounded. After 3 years of trying to prove my status, I was classed as a type 2 diabetic and therfore could go back flying to PPL level. A friend of mine was just about to start heli training, so I went to the school to have a look for myself and was pretty much hooked. So I started at the beginning in Jan 2008 doing my heli training. Over the course of just over 1 year. Jan 08-Feb 09 I have about 50 hours total including the required solo work. Ive passed all my exams and all thats left is to do the skills test and Ive got my PPL(h).

I know that when you ask a question on PPrune, its like playing Russian Roulette, you just never know the opinion/answer you will get. However in my experience in the past, pprune has been invaluable.

4ft and Whirly, Thank you for your input, sharing your experiences and your advice. I have pretty much decided that I will go back and do a few more hours dual and get that missing confidence back then pass my skills test and be proud of my PPL(h). I have pretty much decided that on looking back at it myself, I did the right thing, but I just overdone it a bit.

Guys, thank you so much for your input. It is really appreciated.

[Paddyviking]

Good on you airbourne:D
pprune offers alot of experience from those who have gone before you
and everyone has made (and still makes) mistakes !!
It is how we learn---by making mistakes, the trick is to learn from them
and doing them with an instructor can help you identify where you have gone wrong.
an old expression comes to mind

That which does not kill us, makes us stronger

regards


Pv

[Sikorskyfan]

I would try rum, lots of it!

[airbourne]

Me and the 'Captain' are good friends!

[ADRidge]

I've had a few "interesting" times in a helicopter in my 170-odd hours. It's not alot by any stretch of the imagination, but I've managed to have an engine failure at a hover and I got into LTE once. The engine failure was no big deal. It was over before I knew what happened, really. Slight yaw, erratic RPM's, throttle chop, shut down, grab the next helicopter down the line. That was bad fuel.

LTE... well, that was my own dumb*** fault. Scared the crap out of me. Recovered, landed, smoked about five cigarettes in a row, called up my instructor (I was solo) told him to come get the *&^$-ing helicopter and fly it back. We had a few beers once I stopped shaking, and I got back in it the next day.

The absolute worst thing you can do after an interesting moment is to walk away and stop flying for any amount of time. It gives you too much chance to over-think what could have been, etc. Analyze what happened, identify your mistakes, don't repeat them. Most importantly, get back in the helicopter ASAP. If you don't bend anything, and you don't kill anyone or scare em too badly, I don't see a problem, honestly. This is in the training environment, mind you. Out in the real world, I'm sure you'd have hell to pay, but that's why you should try to make sure you screw up alot as a student, and rarely as a professional pilot.:O

I've also had two cessnas and a navy trainer try and fly into me. Not really much you can do at times, but never quit flying the helicopter. Ever.

[rotorspin]

ADR - what machine did you get LTE in solo? You must have been light?

[ADRidge]

Rotorspin, I sent you a PM.

[airbourne]

Small update. Went back, did loads more dual, then loads more solo. Confidence returned and then FINALLY......got my PPL(h) on Thursday of this week! I am a happy happy man! Oh, I am also broke now!

[Bullethead]

Hey Congratulations airbourne,

Well done!!!! :ok: :ok: :ok:

Another thing never forgotten, like your first solo.

Good luck with the rest of your flying.

Regards,
BH.
(Witha a CPL(H) somewhere around the place.)

[John R81]

Congratulations Airborne!

Welcome to the freedome of PPL(H) flying

John

[Aubrey.]

Congratulations! Very well done :ok:

[Shawn Coyle]

A story was told to me by one of my first flight instructors. During WWII he was instructing on Tiger Moths - did a dual spinning trip with one of his students and sent him off for the solo spinning sortie. But the instructor's next trip was at the same time, so he went to the area where the solo spinning student was practicing. And watched the solo student get in to a spin and not recover. Fortunately, the Tiger Moth had a relatively flat portion to the spin, and that's where it hit the ground. He saw the student get out of the wreckage and promptly went and landed next to the student, kicked his own student out and took the original student back up to do more spinning. He maintained that if he hadn't done that, the student wouldn't have ever flown again...
You could that sort of thing in those days.

[S76Heavy]

Congratulations, both on your PPL and your willingness to learn from your mistakes and asking others about them.

I learned a lot from asking questions and listening to my "elders" and reading stories like "I learned about flying from that" etc.

The only stupid question is the one you did not dare ask. That is not to say you won't get many stupid answers, though..:E

Important is to prepare yourself by using "what if.." scenarios and thinking them through with the benefit of your knowledge, experience and that of others who may have "been there, done that, changed the underwear.."

Happy landings

[SilsoeSid]

Was going to post a bit more, but then realised the dates. :rolleyes:

Jeez airbourne, some skills test that must have been ;)

Congratulations, and remember that every day is a learning day, even for the old scrotes amongst us here. :ok:

[SgtBilko]

Reminds me of when I was a student (about 20 hours in) taxing across the airfield a gust caught us and I was really struggling with (over) control quite close to the "plank" parking area. I said "you have control" my instructor said "f_ck off you are in control".

I sorted it.

In the debrief my instructor said "you are easly good enough to fly in those conditions, you didn't need me you just thought you did and one day you won't have the luxury of an instructor, when flying your 1st line of defence must always be self reliance".

I was always so much more self reliant after that, to the extent that on my skills test I was asked to land in a confined area. After surveying it I refused, citing a combination of wind direction, tightness of site and lack of exit route. I was congratulated on my decision but assured we could have landed there (went back later with instructor to prove it !!!). I passed.