View Full Version : Why Can't Men Just Fing Wash?

17th Apr 2009, 19:45
OK, now we're getting our own back.

I have just had what would have been a pleasant couple of post-work hours in a decent pub RUINED by the group of academic anoraks opposite. It wasn't their chat - I could a) ignore it or b) laugh it off as a lot like that of the comic store owner in The Simpsons.

What I could not ignore was the fact that they had not washed, jointly or severally, for the last couple of weeks (it's an estimate - believe me, I didn't want to get close enough to enquire as to the precise details).

I did wonder, idly, if they had any dreams about attracting women. And if so, if they wondered why they didn't seem to be able to. Mr Picker (non-smelly, IHTA) interjected to make sure I didn't offer them unsolicited advice.

I wouldn't have gone close enough. :yuk:

Chesty Morgan
17th Apr 2009, 19:49
Maybe because the answer to:

"Where's my shower gel?"

Isn't usually forthcoming!:E

17th Apr 2009, 20:08
Stockie, we've a couple of guys like that in the chorus. Despite all the hints they still don't bother with deodorants. Mind you some guys reek of cheap aftershave which is just as bad.

17th Apr 2009, 20:11
It's difficult to do so when the missus is hogging the bathroom all the time as she plucks her eyebrows before painting them back on.......

17th Apr 2009, 23:50

You have my sympathy.

A while back, I was assigned a graduate from a country East of here. He was keen, obliging, and relatively quick to learn. He reeked. Mercifully one of my other people gave him a less subtle hint than I (what do you think of Molton Brown?) and he has improved. Still tends to spit food particles when he talks, though.

I moved a while back without having checked the water pressure. A rather big mistake. At first I thought it would inconvenience me for 10 minutes per day (I like to have two showers), but each shower is now taking 15 minutes apiece.

That's why I hide my money under the soap in London.


kiwi chick
17th Apr 2009, 23:55
Ewwwwwwww... reminds me of Recruit Course. Lots of young boys straight out of school and from under Mum's apron... no idea about shaving or personal hygiene - who seemed somewhat surprised that we had to shower every DAY! :{

18th Apr 2009, 00:49
Many, many, many moons ago, when I was a lass working the midnight shift for a car rental company at a major intl airport, I would get the rush of intl travelers coming off of the night flights. Pew-whee... The smell across the counter was often unbearable, both in body odor and breath. (and for some, their diet permeates through their pores too) :yuk: It was so bad, I wanted to tell these travelers to "stand back against the far wall and just toss your passport, intl driver's license and major credit card and we'll just sort this out at a distance, shall we?" :E :}

Now, I've flown since I was a baby, on night flights as well. I was taught to clean up--wash face, deodorant dab and brush teeth at some point before landing. So for the life of me, the idea that people weren't conscious of their odor was/is 'foreign' to me. (pun intended) :} :p

Pugilistic Animus
18th Apr 2009, 00:59
Well every guy's balls and underarms stink at times ,..anything else should be illegal!!!

I personally am a very hygienic and also I 'lift weights, excercise,...so see rule 1 above:},..but I freakin' stink like cigarettes at times,..or like a good friend here advises like that occasional greenie to be had after my bad landings--you can't win,..but I'll try to quit for my birthday


kiwi chick
18th Apr 2009, 01:34
Sorry, Pugilistic Animus, maybe its the Venus/Mars thing, but I didn't really understand that post at all. :confused:

18th Apr 2009, 01:55
With you on that one, KC! :ok:

Pugilistic Animus
18th Apr 2009, 02:33
KC and CoF

I mean it's only acceptable for those aforementioned parts to have a bit of 'stank' , if it's for a reason,...like 11hr sector balls and pits :}or after the gym, but not an everyday thing,..I hate nastiness

but the ladies are not always too fresh themselves :\


18th Apr 2009, 02:39
Maybe it's a genetic thing. Round these parts of Western Australia there is a certain ethnic grouping that you can smell a mile off - men and women (and kids).

Mind you, some of the old farmers can be as bad.

18th Apr 2009, 02:46
PA... and my point is that after that much time, if you're to be around others, one can find a way to give self a quick clean up. Geez, there are all kinds of handy, portable products for this very use. Keep in gym bag, glove compartment, purse.

No excuse anymore, to be pungent....anywhere. :=

18th Apr 2009, 03:07
but the ladies are not always too fresh themselves

That's why I'm never go anywhere without my Wet Ones anti-bacterial wipes.

They are even having "Go Places Cleaner" photo contest.

Now, can you imagine the possibilities of that? :E


18th Apr 2009, 03:24
Here's an issue I see here....

We men started using deodorants, etc, then get told women prefer the "musky" smell of a man.

We cultivate that odour, we get told we stink and have to use deodorants!!

We just can't win!

18th Apr 2009, 03:41
Uh...there's muskiness and then there's the "i've worked out today and haven't showered in 10+ hours". BIG difference to me. But hey...if your woman likes you a bit more rank....lucky you--I guess. :hmm: But may not be so lucky for the person sitting next to you in another scenario. :p ;)

To each their own...:ok:

Pugilistic Animus
18th Apr 2009, 03:43
Oh Ladies you all make me bashful:O,...no they don't get to smell me---unless they want


18th Apr 2009, 03:46
Oh, my dear, I can assure you I do not stink at all. Not even my feet. But that's because I don't like the feeling of my skin being unwashed/sweaty/etc and isn't for any woman.

Anyway, Stockie was talking about a far worse pong than 10 hours without a wash. By the sound of things these guys maybe did wash themselves but not their clothes. I dunno what would be worse.

kiwi chick
18th Apr 2009, 03:49
This is seriously making me want to gag. A lot.


Muskiness = good. In fact, downright great. ;)

V2, what's the prize? Might be worth it... :E

18th Apr 2009, 05:54
There's a simple solution, ladies.

Spend time with the fellow on Sundays, maybe Mondays.

Schedule Thursday and Friday at granny's.

(Saturday night we're busy.)

18th Apr 2009, 06:13
Over here they ran a TV doucmentary on what attracts between the sexes.

Lots of interesting data, including alcohol, ovulation period, looks etc.

Some of the answers were predictable about looks, but the matchups between a man and a woman partner out of a crowd were very interesting. They showed that likes were attracted to likes relative to a rating of 1 to 10 on good looks Alcohol alone muddies the water by about 2-3 points. Relative to body ordor, sweat and muskiness were negatives unless the woman was ovulating, then it definitely was an attraction.

I suppose with all the hidden data possibilities among the Prooners we could re-run our own experiments. Something along the line of a rough looking guy trolling his well used gym shorts on a ball bat as he walked through a girls dormintory. Then several yards behind him would be a handsome guy with just a dash of cologne and see if you could get a statistical sample.

18th Apr 2009, 07:53

18th Apr 2009, 10:06
Many years ago I worked at an airport alongside a pretty young lady who revealed to me that she never washed in the morning before an early shift as she just couldn't get out of bed early enough. She was a great believer in Johnsons Baby Talcum Powder and would douse herself in copious amounts of the stuff before dressing for work. Strangely I've had an aversion to the stuff ever since, the merest whiff awakens my gagging reflex!

18th Apr 2009, 10:09
If you wash too often, you will likely smell bad more often.

Est modus in rebus...

Ipse dixit ;-)

18th Apr 2009, 11:08
It depends on what you notice, I suppose. As a proportion, I've met far more women than men with bad breath. I had a checkup from a female doctor a few weeks ago, and both she and her nurse had my eyes watering. :oh:

18th Apr 2009, 12:36

I've met far more women than men with bad breath

Inevitable, really, when your tongue's down her throat. :ok:

I don't know what Mrs BOFH gets up to whilst I'm asleep but her breath in the morning reminds me of Claire Short. People in glass houses and all that, but if I'm up for a Jimmy I'll gargle with Listerine and brush for good measure, including the tongue, palate and gums.


18th Apr 2009, 12:51
I do not want to know, or even imagine, how you know what Claire Short's breath smells like.......


18th Apr 2009, 14:03
....to be unglamousously reminded of Clare Short may well induce a train of thought that stops at more stations than Breath alone....


18th Apr 2009, 20:10
There are some (few) unfortunates who just cannot help it. I twice had a chap as a student who minged unbelievably. In the aircraft, and particularly in the sim, it was almost unliveable with. On one occasion I was forced to share a room with him on a short det. No time for subtlety I went for the brutal option viz " Bloggs, the shower is there, there's bags of hot water, there's plenty of shower gel and shampoo, get to it. He did. And while he was in the shower I grabbed his flying suit and clothes and took them to the laundry room and put them in the wash.
He emerged and got sorted out, put on civvies and off we went to the bar. Inside 20 mins he was at full throttle pong again. I even approached the MO about it and he said that the chap had spoken to him and that he'd considered offering an operation which severed some particular nerves to his feet.
Amiable chap he was, very clever and a diligent stude. Unfortunately he's no longer with us having passed on at too early an age.

Stockies original complaint on the other hand does seem to come from bloody idleness on the part of the chaps concerned.

I must also confess to a rank state after 14 days in an old diesel sub with no washing. Wet wipes just didn't do it - they leave a sort of stcky slick on the skin. The wife of a friend who picked me up at the dockside did confide to SWMBO later that it took all of her forebearance to give me a "welcome back kiss"
The Ancient Mariner

18th Apr 2009, 20:25
I must also confess to a rank state after 14 days in an old diesel sub with no washing. Wet wipes just didn't do it - they leave a sort of stcky slick on the skin

I think that would fall into the "disgusting, but understandable" category.

18th Apr 2009, 22:57
Had a middle aged Ozzie engineer working with us in BGD a few years ago, bugger stank to high heavens, it was only when we learned that he slept under his desk that the penny dropped...

Shipped him home as a dubious mental case, some feat to prove within our outfit :E

kiwi chick
19th Apr 2009, 05:52
Haha, Rossian, that reminds me...

I got pulled from survival training to get rushed to hospital to get my appendix out. We had been doing Escape & Evasion for two days, group survival for two days, and solo survival for two days.... all without a shower or wash in sight.

During this time we had chopped trees, traipsed through mud, slept in bushes, killed and cut chickens, you get the picture... :ok:

I got wheeled into the theatre waiting room to be met by *worded politely* "astonished glances" and utter silence by all the medical staff. :}

Even in all my pain, it was impossible not to giggle.... :ok:

and then hurriedly explain my appearance of course!!

Neptunus Rex
19th Apr 2009, 07:46
In the early stages of Officer Cadet training, during the Barrack Block phase, we had one strange bloke amongst us. He would sleep in his underwear and socks, then upon awaking, would sit up in bed and shave with an electric razor. After that, he would reach out for a shirt and tie, and put them on, still sitting up in bed. One fragrant fellow! After a few days of this, he was ambushed by the rest of us, four of whom were armed with large brooms. He was hauled out of his pit and propelled at broom length into a running shower - shirt, tie and all. He missed breakfast that morning, just making it onto parade in time. Problem sorted. He subsequently failed pilot training but made it to Wing Commander, as a Scribbly. :eek:

23rd Apr 2009, 10:41
This may shed some light into why ladies (generally) smell gorgeous, and us fellas will never, ever smell quite as nice...

Senario - its a Saturday morning, and the only thing on the agenda is that you are both going out for dinner that evening.

Wake up, yawn, stretch, scratch arse, fart (this is a ladies way of encouraging the man to go and prepare breakfast).

Man - exits bed whilst holding breath, heads downstairs to prepare breakfast, calls up the stairs "What would you like for breakfast dear?" (man thinking a nice fry up would go down a treat, but needs confirmation).

Woman replies - "As we are going out for dinner tonight, shall we just have some croissants?"

Man thinks "B*llacks - a bloody crossant!", and says "We havent got any though".

Woman - "well pop down to the shop and get some"

Man - returns upstairs and proceeds to bathroom (after heavy sigh - but not heavy enough to be heard by woman)

Woman - "What are you doing now?"

Man - "Just having a quick shower, then going down the shops to get those lovely croissants"

Woman (sounding slightly indredulous) - "Just change into your joggers and get down there, you can have a shower later, you are only going to get croissants"

Man - "ok"

A leisurely breakfast in bed is enjoyed by both - man takes dishes downstairs and loads dishwasher.

Woman - "The grass could do with a cut..."

Man (knowing that this is not mearly an observation, and should in fact be inturpreted as "Cut the grass") - "ok - I will get the mower out and cut it"

Woman - "Get into your gardening clothes first - you will get dirty."

Man changes into old gardening clothes, pops on a pair old old trainers, and goes to the shed to get lawnmower. It should be noted here that as the woman never goes into the shed, the mower is exactly where the man expects to find it.

Man mows the lawn, "strims" the edges, rakes the grass, puts clippings etc into bag and puts away all equipment into shed. Meanwhile, woman is sitting on the sofa reading various magazines while watching re-runs of "How clean is your house".

Man (now sweating) "Thats that job done, looks rather nice doesnt it?"

Woman - "Yeah - looks ok, although you missed a bit of strimming round the back of the fence - just go and pull it up will you, otherwise it will annoy me. Can you take the grass bags down the dump after that? I have just been watching "How Clean is your house" and want to clean the kitchen."

Man - "ok"

Man drives to dump to dispose of garden clippings, expecting to find the kitchen completed on his return, basing his assumption on "men clean", rather than the more rigorous "woman clean".

Man arrives back home to find a fairly clean kitchen, and a note saying "In the bath - can you clean the oven and the floor?" - think "oh great!"

Man cleans oven, sweeps and mops floor, and feels totally knackered, hot and sweaty. Its now about 12.00 and he thinks a cold beer has been well earned. Man goes to fridge, pops a cold one, and sits on sofa, switches on the TV to find out whats been going on in the world, selects one of the 24 hour news stations.

2 minutes later, just as the 30 second sports round up comes on, woman comes downstairs looking radient, glances at the TV and says "Dont think your sitting there watching sport and drinking beer all day, we need to go shopping - I want a new top for tonight. Get upstairs and have a shower - you stink, but we need to be out of here in 10 minutes..."

Man - "but I only just sat dow..."

Woman - "Dont waste time, get a shower!"

Man goes upstairs to shower, with "and hurry up" ringing in his ears.

Man undresses, and places all "gardening clothes" in a pile, ready to place in the wash basket. Turns on the shower to warm up while brushing teeth. Picks up razor to shave, and hears "are you ready yet?" - decides against a shave, and steps into the shower. Man exclaims "f*ck" as he realises there is now no hot water. Man jumps in for a quick 30 second "splash and dash" - gets out, towel dries, dresses, and goes downstairs - all completed within 7 minutes.

Woman - "You cant wear that shirt, it doesnt go with those trousers, go and put the white one on"

Man runs upstairs and puts on white shirt, then comes back down.

Woman - "Those shoes are a bit dirty, go and put the brown ones on"

Another run upstairs to change shoes - man emerges again, only to be greeted with "you cant wear brown shoes and a black belt..." Man runs back upstairs to change belt...

Get in the car to go shopping for the new top, woman says "Did you wash properly? You smell a bit - and why didnt you shave?"
Man replies - "I couldnt wash properly, because you used all the hot water, wanted me out of the house in 2 minutes, and then made me run up and down stairs changing everything I was wearing".

Woman - "Theres no need to get arsy - I was just saying that you smell a bit"

Silence reigns for the remainder of the journey, car is parked, and various ladies clotheswear departments are visited in several shops. Man is trying to show/look interested, but is becoming irritated (mainly because the purpose of the trip was to buy a new top for woman, however he has visited shoe departments, lingerie departments and trouser/skirt departments - none of which sold tops.)

After a couple of hours, woman purchases top (well 3 new tops, with the promise of returning 2) and couple is walking out of the shop.

Man asks what they are doing for lunch, as it is now 3pm, and after all the manual labour he has performed at the ladies request, and what with breakfast consisting of a bloody croissant, he is starving.

Woman - "Your not serious? We are going out to dinner in a bit - you will spoil your appitite if we eat this close to dinner!"

Man think "FFS" - counts to 10 slowly, and decides to let the matter pass, thinking he will order the 24oz steak for dinner.

Arrive home, woman says she is going to go and try on the tops, and asks man to wash/clean the car in preperation for the evening out, as it "is covered in bits of grass"

Man is in the middle of washing car when his mobile rings, its the woman asking him to come upstairs and give an opinion on the 3 tops.
Man swears proffusly knowing he is now entering a situation where his words must be chosen carefully.

Woman shows the man all three tops, man has already told woman that he will reserve judgement untill he has seen all of the tops "on", in the hope that he will be able to pick up some "signals" as to which is womans favourate, as he knows from past experiance that even though the woman has asked for his opinion, this is not what she wants - what she wants is her opinion confirmed.
After seeing all 3 tops worn, man has failed to gain any clue as to which is womans prefered option, so decides to go with his honest opinion, "the 2nd one".

Woman - "oh - I think the 1st one looks best, the second one makes my arms look fat".

Man - "Does it? I Didnt notice. The 1st one looks nice too"

Woman kisses man (on the cheek) and anounces that she is going to have a "nice bath" and get ready, while man finishes cleaning the car.

Man finishes the car, and decides to pop another cold one, and sit down and relax for 10 minutes, before going to get ready.
Woman (1 hour later) shouts down to the man "I am out of the bath now, do you want the water?"

Man (thinking "er no - I want clean bloody water, not water with bits of leg and underarm shaving in it) replies, no, its ok, I will use fresh".

Man runs bath, while having a shave, and brushing teeth. Man dips toe in bath - water cold. Man curses, lets out some water, and tops up bath using just the hot water - retries foot dunk, and finds the temperature to be lukewarm but bearable. Man gets into bath, slips and nearly kills himself as the bottom of the bath contains the remnants of the 734 essential oils that woman has used to bath.

Man relaxes in bath for 5 minutes, and then proceeds to look for the shower gel and shampoo.
Man becomes a little frustrated, as the bath surround has been cleared of its usual componants, and all that is now within arms reach is the "jojoba and seaweed body scrub", the "lemon and honey with extract of tingse fly" shampoo, and a load of extinguished candles.

Man then spies "his" shower gel (Tesco own brand - bought by woman) on the unit by the sink - conciders breifly getting out of bath to get it, but remembers near death experiance while getting in the bath and decides against it - figuring to use woman lotions.

Man completes bath, carefully extracts himself from bath, towels dry, and goes into bedroom, woman still drying hair. Man finds cloths laid out on the bed for him to wear, woman turns off hairdryer and says "get dressed in the spare room", then turns hairdryer on again.
Man collects clothes off bed and begins to walk out of the room, hairdryer goes silent, and woman says "Why did you use my stuff in the bathroom?"

Man briefly conciders lying before deciding to come clean (excuse the pun), explains his reasons, and asks how she knew.
"Because" says woman giggling, "you are glittering"...

Man looks down at body, and sees faint twinkles in the lamplight on his skin, rushes back into the bathroom and examines the "jojoba and seaweed body scrub" in more detail, realising to his horror that he hadnt noticed "With shimmer effect" written in small letters underneath!

Horrified, man turns on shower and forces himself in the cold stream, and scrubs away with his cheap shower gel, washing away the effects of the nice smelling woman gel.

And that ladies and gentlemen, is why men dont smell as good as women!

23rd Apr 2009, 10:50
Classic post SLF!

IIRC, a Mon-Fri detachment could be done in the same kecks:

Mon- Normal
Tue- Back to front
Wed- Normal inside out
Thu- Back to front inside out
Fri- Normal

8th May 2009, 17:09
Why thank you 27mm:O

8th May 2009, 17:22

Ahhh brings to mind the laundry flow chart:


8th May 2009, 19:02
There is no excuse for people having BO, it is vile and it is difficult to have any respect for a person who has none for themself.

Perhaps it is something to do with having been a member of HM forces (no not a Pongo). 3 showers a day were the norm, only time you were allowed to stink was when in the jungle (never use sented soap or deoderant), or the blokes coming off the boats at Faslane, christ they smelt rotten.

For people who stink in the office, a can of Lynx left on their desk with a 'pressie from Santa' note attached usualy works without embarrasing them, if they fail to get the hint then it's time to just tell them to 'go home and get a shower'.

Out of interest, what happens if someone stinks on a passenger plane? Can they be told to leave before takeoff? What about the poor unfortunate sitting next to them that has to breathe in their rotten odour?

Only person I know who could be forgiven was someone who had BO probs but washed or showered every day. He ended up going to a homeopath and was diagnosed with having some nasty stuff floating around in his blood. 4 mths of some kind of treatment later and he was fresh as a petal. Would probably have got a girlfriend as well if he hadn't been such a beardy wierdy geek.

Worrals in the wilds
8th May 2009, 19:35
We had an airport cop who was known as Wheelie Bin because of his BO. He was a backwoods boy who didn't believe in bathing, deoderant (thought it was gay) or washing uniforms (didn't know how, and Mum was still back in the backwoods). He's the only person I've met who actually smelled like rotting vegetables.

Offenders were knocked out by the smell before he ever had to draw a weapon. The guy could clear a brawl in under a minute.

Eventually, a fairly tough female senior officer brain snapped and barked "go have a bloody shower and find a clean uniform or I'll make you wear one of mine" and he did. Pity really, we were all looking forward to seeing him in a skirt, though it probably would have increased the smell...

8th May 2009, 19:38
I think half the time, the bad smell is not so much the lack of washing, which admittedly is a factor but failing to change or wash their clothes. There is soon a build up of smelliness particularly in the underarm region. I think that's definitely the problem with the gentlemen in the first post. From my own experience of being unable to shower or wash properly for a few days. There was no appalling pong because I changed clothes every day and had deodorants. Works until you run out of fresh clothes.:sad:

I think that's the main issue with smelly men, no deodorant and wearing the same shirt and other unmentionables over and over. It soon gets nasty. Men in general are terrible at knuckling down to wash clothes, particularly younger men and intellectual types for whom everyday tasks are a mere distraction from deep thinking.

8th May 2009, 20:33
Good point there Corsair. Clothes should be a one day only affair as well.

However what is the forums opinion on a pair of jeans?

I have to admit that 2-3 days is my average. Is this stinky? What about suit trousers?

I know people who would not wear apair of jeans more than one day, and others who seem to wear them for a week or so.

8th May 2009, 20:55
GPMG, it depends on your own personal perspiration and what you are doing whilst wearing said jeans.

If ya don't sweat much and ya ain't doing hard work then 2-3 days is perfectly acceptable.

Suit trousers? No idea, they're only used for weddings, funerals, etc, so only ever get used for one day

Whiskey Kilo Wanderer
8th May 2009, 21:10
Pieces below appeared on Pprune some years ago:

A10 Thundybox

I find that the "rotate method" of boxer wearing is preferred; to explain... after reaching the end of Day1 we'll call this "D1" you rotate the boxers by 180 degrees to offset the worst of the offending matter, after Day2 (D2) you are now committed to this course of action so invert the rag for a comparatively clean finish on Day3. Finally after the stop over and not having squandered hard earned cash on fripperies such as soap-(pah!) "Rotate" to ensure the undercarriage gets the maximum positive use of any remaining "fresh" material during Day 4.

This is the SOP for max-intercontingency pant drills as observed by all sensible Pilot types. It is a testimony to many pant manufacturers showing that in extreme cases and with correct procedures you can obtain 400% from a standard pair, although "chip warnings" and likelihood of foreign object damage can increase during this phase.

It is also worth noting that during this procedure all up weight increases over time (paradoxically) and gas output can also quadruple. The "busy environment" will doubtless affect CRM so it is important to be a "people manager first." Great skill is required to keep close colleagues calm/unaware during this operation.


8 days; 3 undies , 2 shirts, 2 trousers and several pairs socks; - Sounds quite normal to me.

Undies; 1 worn, 1 drying, 1 awaiting wash, and if worse comes to worse the world doesn't exactly stop turning 'cos someone isn't wearing pants.

Shirts; 1 wear - liberal dose of spray might stretch it to two wears. 1 drying in hotel bathroom. (You might balk if you regularly have to pay 6 or equivalent to have 1 shirt washed in disgusting smelling hotel detergent). Depends very much on climate.

Trousers - unless you spill something horrible on them or it is really hot they'll last well more than 2 days as long as you hang them up properly to air.

Socks - even in the hottest climes will last two days if you hang them on the balcony to air. I recommend a good spray of Clarins Eau Ressourcante. Makes everything smell fresh even if it hasn't seen water for weeks.

Oh and bras - tend to favour Sloggi for work - so comfy you forget you are wearing them and they don't show under the uniform. They last about 3 wears if pushed before the stretchiness and hence support goes. Tend to allocate 1 bra for two days when away.

And in a vain attempt to set a disgusting Pprune personal hygiene record I think the longest I went without a wash or change of clothes (and that includes undressing full stop) was about 16 days. That first (cold) shower after those 16 days was the closest I will ever get to pure luxury. You can never beat the simpler pleasures in life. And strangely the world is still turning despite my maybe 'slack' personal work hygiene standards!

edited to add - There is nothing nicer than knowing someone who is in a crew house with a Washing machine rather than everyone staying in a hotel.