Info on Vor holdings?

[drive73]

Anybody have info on Vor holdings.. Do they have a good reputation? I can't find info on them. Thanks

[training wheels]

I take it you're not talking about holding patterns over a VOR station? :confused:

[skytrek21]

that's hillarious....nope he's talking about the company VOR holdings. Don't strain your brain too much training wheels.:}

[snk596]

Hey guys, be careful about whom you pick as your representative for far east. VOR advertises so many airlines but doesn't have contracts with half of them and ask you to sign the contract first before anything can happen. I have heard through guys who are there right now that VOR has contracts with merely two airlines. try Sigmar aviation, DPI . They seem to be honest. that is the word I have to use. All the best.

[On Final]

I also have some information on VOR that is less than positive from some personal friends. I think they do the job but you need your agent to support you when you are in need. I don't have any personal experience with them the info is just from my friends. They were not supported in times of trouble, VOR did not support them well. From what I have heard DPI are PARC are OK. You guys are right, be careful who you pick as your agent...

Good luck,

On Final

[snk596]

On Final, you are absolutely right. Stay away from all. The good recruiters are Rishworth, Parc and Sigmar. All the best!

[On Final]

Here is the scoop, Chinese Aviation Recruitment is the same as VOR Holdings in the same office. They are in a marketing agreement with climbto350 so you will understand the framework.

You can expect to get your pay on time from what I hear but that is where it ends in one case I know.

Here is an issue:

If you have problems you may have some trouble being represented. The pilot I know was actually told by VOR they were going to cancel his contract and fire him. This is not a made up story, but a fact. The pilot was not happy and this shows you the true colors of an agency in times of need when they totally side with the company. I imagine like the one post made by a new member, the only post, in favor about VOR was most likely someone inside VOR Holdings is my guess. That is my opinion and you can correct me if I am wrong. I think if you search VOR HOLDINGS you will find other pilots not happy with them. And you might find some other support in favor as well.

Keep in mind pilots like to complain and I am sure most agencies have had some problems here and there. I think Direct Personel, Parc, Cambridge are very good. Others seem to be OK but not top drawer. I don't have a dog in this fight, it is up to you to pick the agency you feel is best...!

Maybe others would like to comment here.???


Good luck,

On Final

[typhoonpilot]

Try pinning them down on payment of Chinese taxes :E

Their quote, "none are withheld and none are due". Anybody working in China care to comment on that?



TP

[snk596]

I agree with OnFinal with a lot of points. I guess we share same thoughts.
Here is the deal guys. Every agency wants to make money. But after they get you to China are they going to stand by you OR AT LEAST DIRECT YOU in the right path. Almost all agencies are very nice in the beginning, some even go out of the way to help you, but what about after arriving in China OR THE COUNTRY YOU CHOOSE. Has anyone thought about that?
VOR HOLDINGS ask us to sign all the airlines consent form in the beginning. WHY? If I want to choose one airline why do I sign for the others with VOR Holdings? That Is not right! IT IS HORSE:mad:
The agency that tells you upfront that you can try with us for three attempts and after that you are free to choose another agency, that is the agency you want to choose as your representing agent , because they seem honest and will remain honest after your arrival in that foreign country you choose.
Now I am not too keen on WASINC, but Wasinc does not make pilots sign all airlines consent form. You choose Shenzen you sign Shenzen only. Don't get me wrong I am not in favour of WASINC. But the fact is the fact.
I have done research and found DPI, Sigmar, Cambridge to be black and white.
This PPRUNE is to protect our fellow pilots and not throw them from the frying pan into the FIRE!
Any one praising VOR and WAS has to be either an inside guy or a pilot who has not yet experienced few months into the contract. I agree I am not few months into the contract but I have made LOADS of calls to overseas pilots who are years into the contract and they have 3 good things to say but 20 dissappointment facts. Come on guys I can understand few bad points but explaining 20 bad points which make complete sense is a sign stay away from VOR/WAS.

Hey Typhoonpilot! Get that clause removed. If they say no. Show them the finger we love so much....... MAN!..........Because pilots get their salary after Chinese taxes are paid and yes you can get a receipt from the airline stating the tax paid so you can show the government of your country the amount of tax you paid overseas as a result you owe less tax to your country's government. I know for a fact UNCLE SAM accepts this.
Typhoonpilot, which agency has this clause in their contract? i would like to give them a peae of my mind. this VOR has their office address in USA so American pilots have to be careful because you will receive salary in USA and end up paying double the tax. I would not beleive a word VOR has to say about the TAX. There is one thing you don't mess with and THAT IS YOUR TAXES TO IRS!

[snk596]

FROM TYPHOON PILOT.
Try pinning them down on payment of Chinese taxes http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif
Their quote, "none are withheld and none are due". Anybody working in China care to comment on that?

Son of a Bravo/India/Tango/Charlie/Hotel. That is what I have to say. This is new to me. Remember I said I have spoken to overseas pilots this is not in any contract I have heard. Be careful TP. You are in for a roller coaster ride with your agency.

[typhoonpilot]

SNK:

The quote I wrote is direct from correspondance with VOR Holdings. I doubt it's in their contract, but it shows an unbelievable level of incompetence. One would have to be incredibly stupid to accept that as the answer to how taxes will be handled for a Chinese contract.

I have heard that there are some nod nod, wink wink deals between various airlines and their local tax collectors, but that certainly wouldn't be the basis under which one should sign a contract to work there under. In the long run that could only end up costing the pilot considerable heartache and money.

I also agree with you on another point. I have written this on other sites as well. If you are a U.S. citizen it is best to work through a non U.S. agent. U.S. agents usually give you a 1099 form for your taxes. This presents some problems when filing taxes as the IRS considers you self-employed when in fact, you are not.



Typhoonpilot

[snk596]

Typhoon Pilot,
U r right on! Just to clarify something, No there isn't any wink wink deals between airline and tax collectors. they all pay the right tax and through correspondence with other pilots flying in China I have found out that the tax is about 20% or so. Its considerably low compared to USA and Europe being the highest. Every LEGALLY employed employee pays A tax in China. this I have researched on Chinese websites and contacted accountants as well. Every third world country has under the table and ON PAPER.
Many of us from Capitalist countries are ignorant to the laws of THE EAST, Middle EAST. They call it Vasta in Middle EAST and influence in America. I yet have to find the word they use in Far EAST. Its whom you know and what level you know that person to.
Yeah Man! Gotta stay from American agents. they provide a 1099 and we will end up paying higher tax than we should.
Hope we all get what we looking for.

[Todd_Kazanski]

Ok Kids,

I am a pilot flying in China for Sichuan Airlines under contract with VOR holdings. First let me say that if you guys want real information, you need to get in contact with one of us directly as anything we say here will get imeadiately back to Ted Revis and Doug Mowery and jepordize our already tenuious positions here in China.

I will answer any questions that do not disclose my identity, and trust me, anything I say will be truth, as I am not interested in incuring the wrath of my employers.

I am doing this only because anyone who is coming here deserves to know what they are getting into.........

[Todd_Kazanski]

Doug Mowrey is not retired UAL, he is currently a UAL 777 Capt. I have never met him, only had phone conversations. I have been here for some time now, and I don't think he is involved in anything past the "recruitment" stage.

[Todd_Kazanski]

It is true that we do not pay any Chinese taxes, we get paid straight into our US bank accounts, and we are still required to pay US taxes. We are issued a 1099 at the end of the year, which means the government views us as "self empolyed contractors". You can expect to pay all the taxes associated with that deal. In other words, I get a lump sum paycheck wired into my US bank account and then I have to figure how much to pay Uncle Sam via the Estimated Tax system. I have been paid everymonth, but not allways on time.

Some non-American Leasing Agents pay "offshore", so no IRS 1099 is issued.

[Todd_Kazanski]

OnFinal Wrote

Here is an issue:

If you have problems you may have some trouble being represented. The pilot I know was actually told by VOR they were going to cancel his contract and fire him. This is not a made up story, but a fact. The pilot was not happy and this shows you the true colors of an agency in times of need when they totally side with the company. I imagine like the one post made by a new member, the only post, in favor about VOR was most likely someone inside VOR Holdings is my guess. That is my opinion and you can correct me if I am wrong. I think if you search VOR HOLDINGS you will find other pilots not happy with them. And you might find some other support in favor as well.

This is a true story. The pilot in question (not me) needed representation dealing with the company, instead he was told he would be terminated if he did not tow the line. The line being, do what ever the company asks, whenever they ask.........this is China. As far as I know the pilot had a legitimate Duty/Schedule concern. I am sure VOR has a different story, but it was obvious whose side they came out on. They get paid by the company, that is who they represent.

[JotaJota]

Very interesting info... Plus the 1099 will make you pay a LOT. of $$ to Uncle Sam... Glad I took another path!

Thanks for the info Todd...

[JotaJota]

Very interesting info... Plus the 1099 will make you pay a LOT. of $$ to Uncle Sam... Glad I took another path!

Thanks for the info Todd...

[snk596]

How is it possible that 1099 will make you pay more than dealing with an off shore account which means going through an agent based out of US. Tax still has to be declared. are you saying getting a 1099 automatically entitles to paying higher tax versus declaring salary earned outside?

[Todd_Kazanski]

Well, I did not say that. As an American Citizen, you are required to pay taxes on any income you earn worldwide. If the company you work for submits a 1099 to the IRS, they know exactly what you make. If they do not, then the IRS does not.

The difference is one is reported, and one is not.

Not that you would want to hide any money from the government, because that would be wrong.

[snk596]

Todd you never said that, Jota Jota said that. It was directed towards him as his quote read :-
Very interesting info... Plus the 1099 will make you pay a LOT. of $$ to Uncle Sam... Glad I took another path! Thanks for the info Todd...
Exactly what does this mean?

[ZAV]

VOR Holdings IS Climb to 350 what they have done is pinch the agencies jobs who post there, and when the pilots register for work for example with PARC, Rishworth, Contractair they dont forward the CVs just contact those who register for jobs with these agencies for themselves. I am sure the big boys will soon stop advertising on Climb to 350 and then their pool of CVs will dry up. So if you are looking for a positon suggest you go straigh to the agencies and not this load of crooks who are really contravening the data protection act.:=:= Regarding Tax in China.......... why would anyone think you would be exempt. anyway they are a load of bandits stay clear.................

[On Final]

Hello,

ZAV, you are 100% correct. It is a scam and most pilots are unaware but the main line agencies are on the case.

VOR, Chinese Aviation Recruitment are the same agency and tied together with Climb to 350. If you notice the advertising on climb to 350 you will see VOR banner ad across the top and the bottom. This will alternate with Chinese aviation recruitment. When resumes come in they are skimmed and filtered, all the live ones go to VOR and Chinese Aviation Recruitment by Climb to 350. Pilots don't even know and no other agencies have a chance. It is a SCAM..!

As far as agencies VOR, Chinese Aviation Recruitment are good on the sales job but offer little to no support if you need help. They told one pilot they would fire him if he didn't tow the line. That is not the way you treat your pilot.

Best advice is to stay away from Climb to 350, VOR and Chinese Aviation Recruitment. Go with the reputable agencies Parc, DPI, Cambridge.

Good Luck,

On Final

[Barefootsailing]

Interesting if true.
I've applied for several contract positions on Climbto350.com, no callbacks except from VOR Holdings.
I also applied via PilotJobBoard.com and recieved an email right away from Parc and another agency.

Mike

[169west]

... any good up-date on Ted Revis & Co?