An outside view of Dubai

[Monarch Man]

The dark side of Dubai - Middle East, World News - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1705098.html)

[OMDB-PiLoT]

Oh for fks sake .. recession didn't hit Dubai ONLY! Its world over. Stop crying like babies and get over this media hoopla. :ugh:

[brassplate]

i think the article was accurate and brilliant. the real concern to me was that the slave trade is alive and well.
rome wasn't built in a day.....and no other town should ever be.

[MES Drvr]

Somebody, please tell me that this is not true. I can understand to a certain extent the abuse of the ex-pat by a local, but ex-pat on ex-pat does not make sense. The good news it will all come to an end sooner than later.

[SMT Member]

Well, OMDB-Pilot, I guess you didn't read the article. A relatively small part of it is about the financial crises, the vast majority is about the sickning society that is Dubai - from the arrogance and tyranny of the locals and the government, over the utterly dispicable behaviour of its alcoholic expats and tourists, through the despair of the downtrodden and enslaved workers who build the place, and to the complete disdain for nature and sustainability which that sad, sad city-states exhibits.

It's gone from nothing to where it is today in 50 years. One can only hope that in another 50 years the desert will have taken back that hideous place, this afront to humanity, and relegate it to back to obscurity.

I am happier than ever I turned down the offers to "come and enjoy the life style and tax free paradise of Dubai".

[Gaylord Fokker]

Yeah, OMDB-Pilot, who cares about others or even the environment? You perfectly match the picture of the expats described in the article. Let's party and look the other way!
But it's probably all lies anyway, right? How rude these journalists are, reminding you that there is a price to pay for your little bubble - a price for others to pay of course, so let's not worry too much!
Disgusting

:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[fjordviking]

The most accurate article I have read on Dubai. truly a good piece of journalism. It`s a mandatory read for all wannabe EK drivers, it saves you your 12-18 months of honeymoon bliss, and rose tinted glasses.

You have been forewarned.

Fjordviking

[FlyingCroc]

And very sad. The same is also true for the rest of the Gulf Countries. :yuk:

[Watchdog]

This article has already graced the pprune ME forum in the "Riches to Rags" thread. :hmm:

[forum newbie]

I am also an outsider looking in but i can tell you that the amount of racism and bigotry i felt in dubai is very different from my current province. After reading the article, my wife felt better about our decision to not come to dubai.

This article was not about a financial crisis; but instead, about how arrogant the country is as a whole. I also have friends in dubai and they have all told me that the restaurants are empty, moral is low, and business is really slow. Yes, the recession is world wide but ateast i know the government does have a watch dog group that oversees my interests and ensures that i am not continously lied to. At the least, i know that i am protected by law.

I just can not put my family through the lack of oversight and protection that all human beings deserve. I remembered when i interviewed, one of the guys in my group challenged the hr lady and mentioned the lack of human right abuses and the lack of law in dubai. She just sat there and said it was like any other western country.

It is sad to see that our own people would sell us off to live a false dream.

ps..thanks for posting the article.

fb

[Wiley]

Many years ago now, back in the days before the labourers' transport to and from work was upgraded to busses, (the old semi-trailers were pretty awful, if not quite "cattle trucks"), I recall commenting to my wife as we drove along behind one such truck full of dull-eyed (i.e., exhausted) workers, that if one day, one of those fellows was to get literate enough to write a book about his experiences of Dubai, we, comfortable in our 4WD, might find ourselves squirming.

The article might descend into hyperbole on occasion. I'm embarrassed to say I can't comment on the accuracy of its description of the labour camps, but suspect it's not too far from the truth. However, its description of the behaviour of a some expats, (see the description of the evening at "Double Decker", and the comment re the young Dutch woman and her inappropriate mode of dress), it's distressingly close to the mark.

[Carjockey]

Sounds about right, they left out a couple things like the bars full of hookers and the exhorbitant cost of hotels/apartments etc.

Now who's going to do an expose of Qatar I wonder?

[Jet II]

The dark side of Dubai - Middle East, World News - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1705098.html)

Hmm - 'The dark side of Dubai' - cant help feeling I've heard that before...

Perhaps it was:

BBC Panorama magazine: Dark side of the Dubai dream (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7985361.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7985361.stm)

Or:

ABC News: Dark Side of Dubai's Boomtown (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/11/dark_side_of_du.html)

Or:

The Times: Dark side of Dubai’s economic boom exacts harsh human toll (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/the_gulf/article2796513.ece)

Or:

Ya Libnan: A rape case exposes Dubai's dark side and injustice (http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2007/12/a_rape_case_exp.php)

Or:

Middle East times: Dubai's dark side - misery for Asians (http://www.metimes.com/Business/2006/04/10/dubais_dark_side__misery_for_asians/3243/)

Or:

Qatar Living: The Dark Side of Dubai (http://www.qatarliving.com/node/80024)

Or:

Time: The Dark Side Of the Dream (http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1779365_1779366_1779370,00.html)

Or:

Arab News: The Dark Side of Splendor (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=9&section=0&article=80800&d=24&m=4&y=2006)

Or:

NPR: "But foreign diplomats and others say there's a dark side to the economic boom" (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5250718)

Or:

Bloomberg: "Fei Fei's story symbolizes the dark side of Dubai" (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=amKSCFA_Fm3s&refer=home)

Or:

Guardian: "Carole Cadwalladr explores the dark side of Dubai" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/05/middleeast.gender)




Do you think they are trying to tell us something? - or perhaps journalists nowdays are just not that original? :sad:


Perhaps we should all Ignore them, they’re only jealous (http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090411/WEEKENDER/893397609/1306)

[FlyingCroc]

When I first arrived I also had no idea how things work here in the Gulf, I thought everyone is rich and a brave new World emerges here in the desert. Slowly you realize why we have these full labor-flights to India, the maid flights to the Philippines and Indonesia. The article is great journalism and should be a must read for every expat seeking employment in the Gulf. Yet it misses a lot of other horrid facts like the extensive prostitution and sexslave trade in Dubai, another reason why the planes are always full to Dubai on weekends from the other Gulf nations. The horrible situation of the abused child camel jockeys, the sex holiday of the Gulf Arabs to Morocco or Egypt to marry underage girls for a summer season, the beating and raping of maids, the carnage of the local youth on the roads, etc, etc, the list goes on :yuk:

[Jet II]

I think the problem is that people seem to think that Dubai is somehow different from anywhere else in the world. Europe has people trafficking, forced prostitution, sex tourists, widespread sex crime, crap driving etc. etc.

Why would Dubai be any different? Considering that modern Dubai is only about 30 years old then their progress hasn't been that bad.

Talking to Malaysians, Filipino's, Vietnamese, Moroccans etc. etc. - they all have similar stories - the guys are happy to be here and earning money that they couldn't back home and the women like living in a society where they are fairly safe from attack. And given that there are not many other countries that will allow these guys in and give them job's then Dubai (and the rest of the ME) is about as good as it gets even with all its problems.

[FlyingCroc]

has it's problems, but we are talking about a huge continent of 400 Mio people. The problems are illegal immigration and not state sponsered slavery. The story is that these guys are lured into this miserable situation by greedy companies with the conspiracy of the government.

[LLuke]

In Europe it isn't the victim that is jailed after being raped. The Filipino's I spoke in DXB were not happy.

The Maroccans I know in Europe live together with their family, are happy, and have a realistic possibility to leave and go elsewhere... They have the same rights as others btw.
...And even if all of this wasn't true, how would it justify all of it in DXB?

[Jet II]

how would it justify all of it in DXB?

It doesn't - but everywhere has problems, to pretend that Dubai's problems are somehow worse than anywhere else is just daft.

Yes, there are plenty of workers from the Third World who are in Dubai who would love to go to Europe and work - the only problem is that Europe doesn't want them so they have to come to one of the few places in the world that does.

[GBB]

Jet II,

Did you actually read and try to understand what that poor guy from Bangladesh had to say?
He would NOT come to Dubai if he knew what is going to happen to him!
Its not about EU not accepting all this people, its about places like ME "playing" with poor souls lifes, feelings and hopes.
This guy sold his land and took a loan to come here because he was promised over 400 Euro a month.
Do read this article once again and please do not try to compare to how things are done in EU and how they are done in the ME.
Theres thousands of emigrants getting EU passports every year and the same rights as EU "locals"! Do you even know one such a case in Dubai or anywhere else in the ME?
Why EU can take in and give nationality to so many of their "Arab brothers" (from poor countries such a Syria, Egypt or Libya), but GCC countries cant? I bet you the would rather get EU citizenship as they do not have 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on... "class of nationality", as its is done in GCC region. They would probably be the last class anyway.
Please do Not make it look like Dubai and the rest of the GCC Gang is giving favors to this poor souls by taking their money and lifes away!

[LLuke]

We're talking about slavery, discriminations and basic human rights.

People that are being deceived with false promises and no possibility (not able to save money, passports confiscated, etc...) to escape. It only now became interesting, now expats are finding themselves in the same position. Unless the newspapers are exaggerating...

You won't find this in the US, nor in Europe and not in most of Asia...

[Grass strip basher]

How many of the folks posting in this thread acutally live in Dubai????

And to say that the same doesn't go on in places in Western Europe and the US is laughable. The US exploit mexican workers.... never! Eastern Europeans sold into the sex slave industry in the UK never!!

Dubai ain't great has many problems and could do with sharpening up on human rights of that there is no doubt.... but last time I checked they hadn't killed thousands of innocent civilians in unjustified wars in parts of the world most US and European citizens don't even visit.... it is all a question of perspective.... some of these articles on Dubai totally lack perspective.

One could say best to get your own shop in order before us folks in the western world start preaching about how others run their affairs.

P.S. yeah the corporates out here are lying gits... but so are managments all over the world. Ryanair ain't exactly done much for pilot T&Cs etc.

[LLuke]

You mean Mexicans living in camps with their passports taken away, not having money to return to Mexico?

You mean that a prostitute in Europe couldn't walk to the nearest police station and quit with everything?

You mean that the respective goverments would support this?

That is laughable...

I am not denying any of your historic arguments, but it is a pathetic excuse for todays problems in DXB.

[FlyingCroc]

in the US go there voluntarily and take work at lower wages illegally and send a lot of money back to old corrupt Mexico. If they get caught they will be shipped back. But even illegally they have basic human rights which you do not have in Dubai and not in the whole GCC countries. It is not only Dubai but the whole GCC. The practices are disgusting, the workers, maids are exploited and abused. The most racist place I ever visited on this planet.

[slatch]

Unfortunitly the article reflects the true Dubai that I have seen, having experianced some of the things written about personaly. The explotation of workers is massive. I helped some friends in the Philippines get a family member back from Dubai. She was recruited for a maids job. The explotation started with the recruiter demanding $1000 USD to get her the job, then the bribes she had to pay to get her passport and OFW docs in a timely manner. Then the imigration officals at the Manila airport demanded a bribe. She showed up in Dubai and was met and her passport was taken. They put her to work for a british couple. They did not treat her to badly but payed the company for her services. The Company did not pay her her full wages, they kept making up new fees and expenses to charge her. She complained to the couple but they did not do anything. She went to the Philippine workers office and they did not care either. They even told her to stop complaining or she would be sent home, to which she replied okay send me home. All they did then was tell her to leave the office and quit making trouble. We flew to Dubai and talked with the british couple. They seemed a little ashamed of not doing anything but helped us with the company to get the maids passport and paperwork to leave. When we got back to the Philippines she complained about the company but no one cared because they are paying big fees and bribes to the Philippine goverment and officials. The bottom line is everyone is making money off of these workers and it is in everyones financial interest to continue it. While in Dubai I did talk to a large number of OFW's. It seemed that about half were getting payed what had been promised. But there were a couple of real horror stories also. But comparing this to Mexican illegals is a joke.

[Grass strip basher]

Okay I withdraw the Mexican comment.... I am NOT defending these practices in Dubai they are appauling.... the government should be ashamed

My point is I am fed up with people continually slagging off everything about a place many have rarely if ever visited. You can find an evil/dark side to every nation. These articles often have no "balance" at all. The west has an appauling track record in many many parts of the world.... I won't go into legacy of the Gulf war, UK pulling out of India/creation of Pakistan, Israel..... non of those involve human rights abuses!? geez even the Brits in the UAE less than a 100 years ago were awful. You can see why many arabs get pissed off given the legacy the US/UK has created in many parts of the middle east.

Exploitation happens everywhere..... for example US/Western European consumers seem very happy buying goods churned out of Asian sweat shops.... but of course that is not fuelling exploitation is it..... hypocrites. You turn a blind eye to where you support exploitation indirectly and preach a "I am holier than thou" to others as you lap up the benefits.

And despite all the moaning about how horrible it is on here how many of you have been motivated to do anything to help the workers in Dubai other than slatch?? (Good work by the way and I apologise on behalf of the Brits among us who are appaulled at the attitude of the British couple you mention..... they are just as responsible in my eyes as the "company" that employeed her)

[mini cooper]

Why don't you just come to Dubai and see the 'dark side' yourselves rather than pontificating on pprune. Once you've seen it, you can then decide how 'dark' it actually is - maybe just dirty grey or maybe as black as the most black thing since black as was invented - the thing is you have to decide!!!
IMPORTANT: do come and see Dubai before you decide to come and work here, bring the wfe if you can. Dubai ain't as rosey as some people think but on the other hand it is not completely awful as others say (though they do try hard!!)

[FlyingCroc]

and again the WHOLE GCC. The same dreadful practices of human trafficking, slavery, abuse. And exactly as slatch mentioned it: The state sponsored slave system also provides loopholes for all the other crooks, so called employment agencies that steal every penny from this poor souls. In my compound almost everyone "owns" a maid. They are working 24 hours living in a so called tiny maids-room where I would not even dare to put a dog in. They are not allowed to leave the house, some are even locked in during the day. It is unimaginable what is going on here. The pay is around 600 Dhs a month, no telling how much they still have to pay to the agency. :yuk:
I agree that the Americans did and do a lot of criminal things in the Middle East and all over the World, but you cannot compare this to a corrupt system that is rotten in the core. As long as the lawmakers in the GCC do not change this inhumane system things will never change to the better in Noeatinham.

[LLuke]

"Why don't you just come to Dubai and see the 'dark side' yourselves rather than pontificating on pprune." I think that most people in this thread have been several/too many times in DXB. Professional pilots visit many places :)

Somebody asked "how many of you have been motivated to do anything to help the workers in Dubai other than slatch??" What people did here in this thread was denying it/painting a non trivial situation "that happens everywhere".

I can appreciate an answer where I am told that things are fortunately not that bad and the news papers are just highlighting exceptions, etc... Or an answer that something must be done or doom will prevail. Not an answer where DXB is justified with examples of Mexican camps, forced prostitution, or made look non trivial by mentioning the holocoast. That is ridiculous. And in no way a justification.

[Canoehead]

Enough already.

This J. Hari guy has written some drivel not even fit for the National Inquirer. From his opening paragraphs about Shaik Mohammed looking down on everyone from every other building to the South Africans beating up their maids to Canadians living in Range Rovers, the only thing worse than the content of his article is the people regurgitating it on pprune. Oh, and let's not forget his journalistic integrity by going to Double Decker's to ask the inebriated patrons what they think about Dubai. Right on!

Now in no way do I want to make light of the the unfortunate and miserable living conditions of many of Dubai's poor. However, anyone of us can write gut wrenching stories about the plight of the suppressed, oppressed and forgotten underclass in any country, first, second or third world. And remember, the evil is not all in Dubai, it starts back in India, or Sri Lanka, or the Philippines, where the uneducated are screwed by their own, by promises of riches and a bright future for just a small cash deposit.

Shadenfreude seems to be the sport of the moment, where all the armchair quarterbacks are gleefully sitting back in their trailerparks, rubbing their hands together, saying "Ha, I knew it, I told you so!" Most have probably never even been to Dubai. Or those that have probably ran away with their tails between their legs, blaming others for their own failures. Same same.

[Jet II]

Jet II,

Did you actually read and try to understand what that poor guy from Bangladesh had to say?

Yes I know exactly what he was saying - and I am sorry for him. But people get ripped off in every country - people pay thousands to 'agents' to get into Europe and get ripped off. The idea that this behavior is somehow the norm for workers in Dubai is plain wrong.

It's the same with the stories about maids getting abused - it happens everywhere, The last story I read was about a maid getting abused by her employer who happened to be Australian - if they are type to do things like that then they will do it where ever they are living be it Hong Kong, Singapore or Timbukto.

For those posters living in Europe, dont believe everything you read in the newspapers - if you want to learn the truth then come to Dubai and actually talk to the workers who are here.

[skysod]

Of course this sort of thing never happens in the "democratic" UK, where also MPs don't embezel every penny they possibly can from the hard up tax payer by pretending that their sister's fridge is their main residence whilst "employing" every member of the family to get as many snouts in the trough as possible, and rapists and murderers aren't able to walk free 'cause there's no room in the prisons and in which they will suddenly find room if you dare not to pay your council tax!............sorry for the thread drift but just wanted to point out that there is corruption everywhere and I think Dubai is getting a disproportionate amount of bad press at the moment.

[Codger]

Unfortunately, no idea where this originated, so I can't attribute it. Just one of those emails forwarded an infinite number of times until it landed in my inbox. Instead of trashing it I actually paused and read it.

"If you think Dubai is bad, just look at your own country

Say that I’d written that in first world Britain there are 380,00 homeless

Friday, 10 April 2009

I called a British journalist friend of mine and said: "I'm going to write an article about London, the same way your compatriots write about Dubai." By the time I was back at home I had come to my senses, it's not fair to London, a city so dear to my heart, or Londoners to be judged by the actions of a few. It's easy to generalise about a country when figures are manipulated to sensationalise and sell papers.

Say for example that I had written an article that states that, in wealthy first world Britain there are 380,000 homeless people, many of them mentally ill, starving and abandoned in sub-zero temperatures to live on the streets.

Say then that I wrote an article that states that Britain, the so called "jail capital of Western Europe" sentenced in 2006 alone a staggering additional 12,000 women to prison and that up to seven babies a month are born in jail where they spend their crucial first months.

I could have written an article that stated Britain, victor in the Second World War, had given refuge to 400 Nazi war criminals, with all but one of them getting away with it. Or one stating that the number of Indians who died while serving the British Empire, to build your Tube and grow your tea, is so large it is simply unquantifiable by any historian.

Or say I write an article about the 2.5 million-strong Indian volunteer army who served Britain during the Second World War, where 87,000 of them died for their occupiers' freedom and yet until recently those who survived continued to be discriminated against in pay and pension.

I could have written an article that stated that, in civilised Britain, one in every 23 teenage girls had an abortion and in 2006 more than 17,000 of the 194,000 abortions carried out in England and Wales involved girls below the age of 18.

I could have written an article stating that Britain, the human rights champion, not wanting to get its hands dirty, had resorted to secretly outsourcing torture to Third World states under the guise of rendition by allowing up to 170 so called CIA torture flights to use its bases. Or that Britain's MI5 unlawfully shared with the CIA secret material to interrogate suspects and "facilitate interviews" including cases where the suspects were later proven to be innocent.

I could have written an article that stated that the Britain of family values is the only country in the EU that recruits child soldiers as young as 16 into its Army and ships them off battlegrounds in Iraq and Afghanistan, putting it in the same league as African dictatorships and Burma.

I could have written an article that states that Britain either recently did or has yet to sign the Council of Europe Convention on Action against Trafficking in Human Beings, the United Nations Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict or the UN's International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families .

I could have highlighted the fact that liberal Britain is responsible for the physical and racial abuse of hundreds of failed asylum-seekers at the hands of private security guards during their forced removal from the country .

I could have written about the countless cases of slave-like working conditions of immigrant labours such as the 23 Chinese workers who lost their lives in 2004 as they harvested cockles in the dangerous rising tides in Morecambe Bay.

I could have written about how mortality rates from liver diseases due to alcohol abuse have declined in Europe in recent decades but in Britain the rate trebled in the same period reflecting deep societal failures.

I could have written about how in "Big Brother" Britain maltreatment of minors is so serious that one in 10, or an estimated one million children a year, suffer physical, sexual, emotional abuse or neglect.

Or that according to Oxfam 13.2 million people in the UK live in poverty – a staggering 20 per cent of the population in the sixth richest nation in the world.

I could have written all that, but out of respect for Britain, I decided not to. Because when you stitch together a collection of unconnected facts taken out of context, you end up with a distorted and inaccurate picture: something that Britain's Dubai-bashers would do well to learn.

The writer is a journalist based in Dubai"

[LLuke]

I found it here http://sultansq.*************/2009/04/if-you-think-dubai-is-bad-just-look-at.html (http://sultansq.*************/2009/04/if-you-think-dubai-is-bad-just-look-at.html)Hmm, wonder why ************* gets censored on Pprune?
Guess your lucky it didn't turn out to be a quote from Saddam Hussain :}

Great piece, esp about the Chinese. I wonder if ignorance is contagious. Written by a journalist that uses the holocaust rather often to make everything look non-trivial.

Now all the worries about DXB have been addressed, we can all at last peacefully sleep again...

[LLuke]

"The writer is a journalist based in Dubai"

I am sure he blends in pretty well:

http://shafiur.i-edit.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sultansaoudalqassemi1.jpg

[zerozol]

just my 2 pennies. :)

before anything: i reject every unhuman behaviour, every offense on existing rights, laws. but if i' not aware of my rights and charges, it's not the system's fault, but it's mine!
also exploiting human ignorance: shameful! hopefully, reports over these issues will help!

as far as i remember, this canadian lady was the wife of a canadian man working for a "famous multinational company" in Dubai.
so, the lesser pay-off, the incorrect (if there were any) information about Dubai lifestyle, laws, etc. is the shame of the international company (not Dubai owned!).
pretty interesting, not? :)

not to mention if i, for example, go working in a different country, even within EU, i will do a small research about laws, possibilities of exercising my rights etc. (but if to a very different continent then it is obligatory.) i really feel pain for this lady, but it's tipical, taking loans over one's possibilities and knowledge... lot of same stories from US, family homes sold on auctions because of loans etc.

some mentioned the problems in EU, and the lack of prospective: yep, that's the problem with these comments here. okey, the article was for a certain use, there's really no problem.

but if we are saying "here is better" - then definitavely we're wrong. i won't repeat the mentioned issues as forced prostitute in EU (yes, passports taken, abused, locked in - not possible to go to police) etc. here isn't better, just different.

if you don't want to go to a country where islamic law and strange practices (strange only for us, westerners) exist, simply don't go!

but don't expect the same rights in every single country, the world is just too big to have the same things everywhere!

Olympiade, tourism in China, not to mention Chinese goods imported in western countries - what about human rights in this country?

someone mentioned Ryanair - nah, that's a human right's paradise, not? :) a beautiful, european social care home, not? :)

come on, guys, yes, it's very different in Dubai (UAE), but if someone plans a big move, it is crucial to get correct and relevant infos!

life is a playground, but often with dangerous toys! if you can use them, it's okey, but if not, don't shame the toys! :)

[Skylion]

A lot of moralising and hand wringing in this post.
Nearly every country you can think of has in its development phase used national or foreign labour living in poor conditions (ie camps,"labour lines" etc) on low pay. When foreigners have been attracted to it they have normally remitted back home as much of their earnings as they could, thereby improving the present and the future of those remaining there.
The whole thing has usually involoved a lot of pain, unfriendly discipline, long family separations but there has been ultimate benefit on both sides despite it being a hard and harsh deal.
It's a fact and you can't blame Dubai wanting to build a new future, even if many of the ultimate beneficiaries are foreigners in relatively well paid professional and support jobs. The whole place is a courageous venture and despite its detractors,- many of whom were flooding there for a new life only a year or so ago,-it ,like the rest of the world, will come out of recession and it will be more successful than many. At least it has put what there is of its oil money to good long term use in building the infrastructure of a modern state.Where has Britains' gone?

[LLuke]

Actually that's what makes this whole thread so pathetic: It is so easy to improve the living conditions, just check as a government that contracts are honoured, etc...

But no, lets simply deny everything and use some really funny counter accusations i.c.w. insane reasoning. Curious about the ones to come.

Are we sure we aren't locals pretending to be expats :} DXB has obviously good sides too, but that's not the subject here...

[sanddude]

Lluke, ahhhh Hoofddorp lovely place :eek:,spend some time there in the past.
Holland, guess the most racist country in europe these days. What the fu*k happend there in the last couple of years.

Don,t they have an openly racist political party in parlement. A piece in the FT stated, that if they would have elections now in dutchland, this party would have enough seats in parlement to run the country. Quite scary for you I would imagine.

Friend of mine ( moroccan) born and raised in Holland,got married in Morocco with a girl from there. Now can get his wife into the country because she is from (and lives) morocco. Human rights my ass:ugh:

Not to mention the way the dutchies handle the moroccans in Holland these days. According to my friend, the dutchies are completely obsessed with the islamic issues. Anyway you stated they are all happy campers, so I guess we have to take your word for that.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe its time to see things a little bit in perspective, and take a look into your backyard first.:=

[LLuke]

Did your airco break down :}

[Flare-Idle]

...some like it there, some not...
...some went there because there was no other option to keep on flying and feeding/supporting a family...
...some went there for bigger equipment, long range experience...
...some went there for "quicker" time to command...

...IF facing unemployment here in "good old Europe", I would most likely move there as well in order to keep on flying...IF a job offer is on the table...

...however IF potentially being offered the same lifestyle, buying power, equipment and/or career, MOST of my friends would return to their country/region of origin outside of the middle east...

[FlyingCroc]

if you live too long in the Middle East. How can you compare the UK or even Europe or the USA with this tiny town of Dubai. 380'000 homeless seems a bit high, but even if it is true it has nothing to do with the state sponsored and approved slave labor system that is used in the GCC. And yes I talked to laborers and maids and nobody had anything nice to say about Dubai. Beside the fact that there was a massive inflation, there was never a payraise and it is true that the laborers don't get paid. Daily news report in the Gulftimes about non-payments, disgusting living conditions, bad food, fires in labor camps, people sleeping on the roofs in downtown Doha because the camps are to filthy and hot. Maids getting raped and beaten daily, that is why certain countries do not allow their girls to work in the GCC anymore. Abuse is not the exception but the rule. :yuk: The article was quite accurate about that.
One thing I always wondered. Why do these airlines here make no money? Labor is dirt cheap, a cleaner costs 500 Dhs, an engineer maybe 10000, the petrol is dirt cheap, cabin crew is cheap, the pilots get paid less than they would in Europe, administration also cheap Indian labor, no pension funds, bad insurance. Where does all this money go? :eek:

[LLuke]

Only thing that puzzles me, is why the local government doesn't do anything against it? Can't be that complex/expensive/etc...
2nd thing ofcourse is why some expats (???) would want to defend all this?

Maybe sanddune could post a picture of himself to rule out any confusion :)

[Tower Ranger]

LLuke, you are behaving like a spoilt child, do you read your own posts?

I think the majority of contributers to this topic are in agreement that things in Dubai could be a lot better but as soon as anyone points out to you that similar things occur in every other country in the world you throw your toys out of the pram.

Have you ever lived in Dubai? I am curious to know why you have recently developed such an obviously unballanced opinion of the place. What you can`t seem to grasp is that the people from the subcontinents who find themselves in these positions have frequently been sold the dream, lied to and entrapped by their own nationals who have recruited them in their home countries. Don`t get me wrong , I am in no way defending the conditions or treatment when they get here, having helped a couple of them I have had to deal with the scumbag that employed them here on a first hand basis.

Maybe to you I am some sort of monster because I have a maid who turns up once a week to do my ironing and cleaning, but guess what, when I lived in the UK I had a guy who came around once a week and cleaned my windows for a few quid.

Ironically you are living in the Netherlands and Amsterdam is well known for many things although the two most famous are not its canal`s and bridges. Maybe you shouldn`t throw so many stones from your own back yard when you have so many glass windows and doorways of your own to shatter? Although I am sure that everything there is above board and none of the lady`s have been tricked into being there and they could all walk away from it at any time, right? Thank god you don`t have a drugs problem their either, right?

One of the attractions which brought me to Dubai was the opportunity to improve my own lifestyle and that is the very same reason that Indians, Chinese, Philipinos et al come here too. You may be surprised to know that the majority of them do just that and are happy to be here. I know one Philipina who works here earning 4500 DHS per month, considered a good wage for office work here, and owns a house and some land in Manila and a car in Dubai. These are things that she could never have acheived in the her home country. Dubai is making the headlines because it is Westerners that are leaving in their droves but in the Philipines 3000 people a day leave there to work overseas because of the problems in that country but that doesn`t make good sport for you does it?

Have a LLUKE at yourself and try to get a bit more perspective into your posts please.

[LLuke]

I fail to see where I blamed expats and their lifestyles for anything? That's what makes all the heated responses look so weird to me. I just find it strange that the government in DXB has been so passive. I think it is sad for the people that suffer from it.

I don't think DXB is an evil place with evil people. I am happy for the people that found their luck in DXB. But that wasn't the issue in this topic. It became an issue, but not by/for me.

The stuff with "look at your own backyard" becomes boring and pathetic and is of course for the subject totally irrelevant.

[SMT Member]

Whilst I, thankfully, has not been in a position where I had to lower myself to accepting a job in the GCC countries, my job does entail quite a lot of travel in that region. Over the years, I've probably been spending on the dark side of 12 months in Do-buy and Bar-ain. And while the governments in both places are the most inept bunch of corrupt oxygen-thieves imaginable, what has always struck me as being particularly offensive is the behaviour of its expat population. The same people who would, in the real world, be nice and agreeable persons somehow develop the most nausiating colonial traits once they've settled in the sandpit. The amount of truly disgusting, racist and horrid behaviour I've witnessed is something I'd rather soon forget. But, I can't.

The author of the article we're debating has got more than a few things right, and I'm afraid to say that one of them is the management employment dump that's GCC. All those failed, useless and downright ignorant managers who are finally seen for what they are, somehow find a way to the GCC where they're promoted far and above their abilities. The nepotism amongst expats is alive and well; one inept manager will hire a "mate" from back home, a mate who's always less capable than himself. So you've got idiots hiring even bigger idiots, etc ad infintum. Worst part, once settled they all take on royal airs and try to pretend they're really good at what they do, conveniently forgetting they were booted out of their home country for being, well, useless. Small minded people, and guess what, within a short period of time they start talking about the "lower classes" (i.e where they themselves came from) and treat anyone their junior worse than crap.

That is what really gets my knickers in a twist and is the overwhelming reason why I've turned down many an offer to work in Do-Buy, Cat-ar and Bar-ain.

Feel free to shoot me down; I know I'm right, and if you dare take a good honest look at the situation, you'd have to agree. But, bearing in mind the arrogance of your average Sandpit-expat, I'm quite sure you wont.

[Jet II]

Feel free to shoot me down; I know I'm right, and if you dare take a good honest look at the situation, you'd have to agree. But, bearing in mind the arrogance of your average Sandpit-expat, I'm quite sure you wont.

Hmm -- so anyone who disagrees with you is arrogant?

Sorry but that says far more about you than the rest of us. :rolleyes:

[Nimmer]

I worked in Dubai for nearly 4 years, had an absolute blast.

However the article is absolutely spot on, and I have no problem in admitting that I recognised my own attitude from the drinkers in Double Deckers!!

Sad really.

We can all throw mud at other countries and compare histories etc, but if you are unable to agree that the are so many truths in that article, then stay in Dubai, you have been there too long and your beliefs are now endemic!!!

[Tower Ranger]

SMT you shot yourself in the foot a little by starting your spiel with;

"Whilst I, thankfully, have not been in a position where I have had to lower myself to accept a job in the GCC....." Reminded me of a line from the muppet show when Miss Piggy says, " Pretentious? MOI?? "
Maybe you just mingled with like minded Ex-Pats?

I don`t think anyone on here who lives in Dubai is disagreeing with the contents of the article, poetic licence et al, it is just funny to observe the attitude it brings out in the ABU`s.

Feel free to talk down to me, i`m just an ATCO.


(ABU-Anywhere But UAE)

[Jet II]

The British press seem to be continuing to bash Gulf states at every opportunity.

Here's a piece from The Sunday Observator's bumptious columnist Gerhan Hankins, covering his visit to the nearby state of Bahdobian.


I look at myself in the mirror, sullen face staring back at me, wide, empty London smile fixed to my face, hiding the torment within. I have the faded look of the once-objective. What's causing this? A meeting I have just had with my editor.

'Gerhan', he told me. 'I want you to go to Bahdobian and write about how rubbish it is.' 'I thought we loved it,' I asked. 'The last five features this paper ran said it was the best thing since sliced bread?'. 'Good point,' said my editor. 'The pendulum swings both ways though you know. We decided it's rubbish now. Because we can.' 'Fair enough, but why do I need to go', I asked. 'I already know everything there is to know about the place from my friend Germaine Greer – she spent four hours on the bus there only the other day.' 'I know', grunted my editor. 'But we've got five days' free at one of their best hotels, provided we give them a mention in the article you'll write. File your piece before you leave, if you like - take the week as holiday.'

I'm still in shock. How can I, with my values and example-setting lifestyle, manage to survive five days in somewhere so awful as Bahdobian?

At home I spend an hour looking for my passport, which I haven't had to use since my last travel article. The mental scars of that particular piece still haunt me. Images of interviewing drunken tourists at four in the morning at nightclubs in Ibiza fill my mind. None of them seemed to care in the slightest that they were in a town that lacked an opera house or in a country that lets people fight bulls. And that used to be a dictatorship and had some kind of civil war a while ago. Or something. These people just wouldn't talk to me. They simply carried on drinking Aftershock and vomiting.

I fly in on Bahdobian's national airline. 150 years ago this counry had no aeroplanes – camels were used for transport. Now they operate a fleet of carbon-belching planes, allowing people to flit from continent to continent in search of instant gratification. Whilst I feel this kind of form of travel is unethical, it is very useful for helping journalists such as myself to get to important destinations quickly. I refuse to watch Top Gear playing on the in flight entertainment. The works of Lenin and Marx shall be my only companions on this journey. I settle into my first class seat.

'Are you a slave?' I ask the smiling stewardess. Katy Framione from Essex looks at me blankly as she offers me a glass of a particularly cheeky Chablis, her wide, empty Bahdobian smile beaming up at me as she crouches, shamed at my elbow. 'I'm sorry?' she says, clearly not understanding what she is part of. The poor woman doesn't even realise that she is an indentured worker, forced to slave her life away at 40,000 feet, never to return home. Behind her smile I read her mind – she knows, but cannot admit what she sees and feels. I smile at her. 'Take courage,' I say, 'I hear you – I hear you.' I pat her on the head encouragingly. I write down her innermost thoughts on my notepad as she backs slowly away from me. The look of fear on her face is thanks to me, I congratulate myself – I have opened her eyes.

As I fly into Bahdobian, the clear air of the Gulf of Mexico provides me with a clear view of the city. It rises from the desert like a [insert turgid metaphor here please, sub editor]. I wish I had gotten off as lightly as my colleague Simon Jenkins, who managed to file his piece based simply on flying over the city. I, alas, must venture into its portals of doom.

Bahdobian takes it's name from the ancient Arabic for ant, the 'dob'. This is an undisputed fact. As we fly in I see people on the streets below. They look like ants from up here. Later, sitting on my hotel balcony, I see an ant. The sympbolism overwhelms me.

As we land at the airport, skyscrapers surround us. Every window, every free piece of space on every building, absolutely everywhere is taken up with pictures of a Sheikh. Sheikh [insert name here – subs, please make sure you spell it right] is the absolute ruler of Bahdobian. Just 35 years ago he lived in a desert. Now he has made of the desert a city. But of this city, a desert shall once again rise. I predict.

I enter the airport, its ceiling hung with more images of the Sheikh. Looking more closely, however, I realise that there's one small image of the Sheikh and that the rest of the pictures are actually adverts with people wearing local dress. I remind myself to get some new glasses. It's so hard when they all look the same.

'Passport please,' asks the smiling Bahdobian at the desk, clothed in cool, crisp white robes, his beard neatly trimmed. 70 years ago these people dressed in sackcloth. Tradition, it seems, counts for nothing here. He is drinking a Coke, I notice. I shudder.

'I know your game,' I snap back. 'You just want to imprison me here for ever, forcing me to write press releases for a living, paying me a pittance and never allowing me to return home.'

He looks at me blankly, but I read his true thoughts - he agrees with everything I say, but he cannot admit so in public. This, he senses, would be a transgression too far. 'May I have your passport please, sir,' he asks again, hiding his shame behind a face filled with mild confusion.

I know we've connected, sensed his guilt. I hand my passport over. He stamps it and wishes me a pleasant stay in Bahdobian.

As I buy four litres of vodka at Duty Free I wonder how I will manage to get through the next few days in this oppressive atmosphere.

60 years ago this place was desert, filled with nothing but Red Indians and cowboys. And tumbleweed too I expect, like in the Clint Eastwood films. Now, as I drive to my exclusive hotel, there is nothing but 18 lane motorways. Everywhere. Even the side streets have at least 10 lanes. Every car I pass is a gas guzzling 4x4, not a bicycle in sight. I weep silently.

'Are you a slave?' I ask my taxi driver, a bearded man from Baziristan. He looks confused. 'I work hard here, yes, but there is little for me back home and this is what I need to do to support my family.'

I look into his eyes as he tries to avoid my gaze. He pretends to be focusing on the road, but deep inside, I know what he really feels, but he cannot admit it. It's Bahdobian's fault there is no work for him back home, this is clear. For him to say otherwise would be, he senses, a transgression too far.

He asks me if I can help him to get to Britain. I shake my head in disbelief. How naive he is. I only have a three bedroom flat in Islington. How could I manage with him staying there for weeks on end?

I check into my hotel, a gorgeous understated place well worth staying at – apparently its minibreaks are great value and come highly recommended. You can book your stay there via my newspaper's website.

Checked into my room, I decide to stretch my legs, the cramps caused by the conditions in first class still causing the pain to jab through my calves.

Naturally, as a first class investigative reporter, my first destination is the hotel car park. It is here I see my first signs of the shocking truth that fills Bahdobian. A truth that no Essex expat may dare speak of.

Mohan shakes his head in disbelief at me. He repeats the same thing over and over – he is a driver for a local businessman and he is waiting for him to return from a lunch meeting. But I know what he is really trying to say, deep down. He cannot say it though – this, he senses, would be a transgression too far.

Mohan is clearly living in his Rolls Royce in this car park. Maxed-out, in debt, he has nowhere else to go. No choice but to spend his days sleeping in the car with the AC on. Afraid to go home, he is destined to spend his life here, in a Rolls Royce, in a hotel car park. His story isn't unique. Across Bahdobian, maxed-out expats sleep in their cars, not thinking to sell them or to live somewhere more practical than a hotel car park, not possessing even one friend with a couch to spare in their hour of need. No, sleeping in their Rolls Royce is their only option. I know this – I can read it in Mohan's eyes.

But it's not only sleeping in cars. The desert, 40 years ago nothing but tumbleweed, lions and tigers, now resembles a refugee camp, as expat middle managers huddle, with nothing but a Rolls Royce, Range Rover (HSE or Vogue) for shelter, nestled amongst the dunes. with nowhere to go.

That evening I set off for my first bout of real research. Although I already know what I am going to write, I feel I should pay some lipservice to journalistic standards.

I look at the list of meetings arranged for me by the local government's media relations office, the British Consulate, a business group, local charities, educational institutions and the like. I decide to take a stand. Throwing these contacts to one side, I head to the only place I will get objective, honest, in-depth feedback on what it's like to live here. I resolve to visit a local pub hosting a long lunch for a visiting rugby team from the UK.

I arrive just before closing time. People, I am astonished to note, have been drinking. In a pub! Not able to decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing, I sit alone in a corner, trying to make up my mind if I should comment on the fact that despite the fact that this is an Islamic country it's pretty generous of them to allow expats to be able to drink. I decide to ignore this point.

I talk to two old ladies, just the sort of people you would expect to find in a pub aimed at the under 30s. They too, have been drinking. Drinking beer, I notice. Hiding my disgust, I order a cheeky glass of rose and engage in conversation.

'It's great here,' says Aliciana Frackmouter. She works at a local school for disabled children, teaching them skills that will enable to live as normally as possible in society. 'After a hard day at work I had nothing that would really help me relax when I was back in England. Here I relax by going to the market and buying maids to lock in my basement. Everyone does. It's the British expat way.'

There is a common echo I hear in every one of the imaginary conversations I have with myself during my visit. Everyone has staff. Even maids have maids. Fifty years ago, there was nothing here but desert, roamed by dinosaurs. Now the desert is filled with runaway maids, sleeping under maxed-out expats' Range Rovers, with noone to look after them but slightly more junior maids.

I leave the pub, my head spinning from one too many glasses of Jacob's Creek – there is no quality wine available here, sadly. Feeling tired and emotional after the day's onslaught of awfulness, I forego a night in my comfortable hotel and, in solidarity with those maxed-out expats, climb into a nearby car in the car park. I will sleep here tonight, shoulder to shoulder with the millions of others doing the same thing. Going back to my hotel, would be, I sense, a transgression too far.

The following morning, I wake up around midday when the car's owner rudely turfs me out of the backseat. 'Are you a slave?' I ask him. He shouts at me rudely, not realising I am on his side.

I visit a local shopping mall. Shopping malls are everywhere here. Glittering domes of consumerism, rising out of the desert like the cactuses which filled the area just 20 years ago.

As I approach this brand new building, I am struck by something so few others seem to have noticed – it's new. This new city is filled with new buildings. There is not a single Anglo-Saxon era church, no Roman remains, no Georgian terraces. Nothing built here over the last twenty years is older than twenty years. How can British people sink so low as to live here? Why have they not built anything older?

Once inside, I wander, dazed, from dress shop to dress shop. I am a man and don't wear dresses. With each salesperson's pitch, my spirits sag further. Why are they trying to sell me dresses?

I approach a 17 year old girl wearing a miniskirt, walking through the mall. She walks briskly away from me. 'Are you a slave?' I cry out, but still she walks away. To talk to me, she senses, would be a transgression too far.

Finally I corner here between an ice cream shop and a fast food joint. I lower my head before talking to her, overcome with disgust that people in this country might want to eat fast food or ice cream.

I know what this young girl thinks, as I can read her mind, but before I can ask her again, I feel a firm grip on my shoulder. The authorities have clearly caught up with me – it took longer than I thought, but the secret police were bound to be on my tail. The presence of a campaigning journalist such as myself was bound to become an open secret eventually.

The secret policeman is disguised as a security guard and speaks only rudimentary, broken English. 'Good afternoon, Sir,' he mumbles, in halting, disjointed sentences. 'Would you please be so kind as leave this young lady be? You seem distressed. May I recommend that you proceed forthwith to your hotel, where a cold refreshment and a lie down might server to revive your spirits?' I struggle to interpret his attempts to communicate, but, finally understanding, I agree that a quick lie down might be a good idea.

He leads me, brtually, to the taxi rank. I sense he would like to cuff me, but he holds back, aware of my vaunted status as an international newspaper columnist, standing a little ahead of me, smiling encouragingly. As I climb into a my cab, I see the 17 year old girl looking at me from across the marble floor of this temple of consumerism. She is talking to a friend. 'Weirdo, freak' are the words I can read on her lips. I smile at her in agreement. She is clearly referring to the disguised secret policeman who has treated me in such a degrading manner. She wishes to speak to me, I can tell, but is afraid to. That, she senses, would be a transgression too far.

My time in Bahdobian over, I forego a normal cab back to the airport and choose to take hotel transport to the airport. I ask for a bicycle, but am met with blank looks. Clearly, environmental sensibilities have not made much of a mark here. The concierge points out that a bike may be unpractical, given my three suitcases. I give in and grudgingly accept a lift in the hotel Bentley. To my surprise it is being driven by Mohan. I congratulate him. He has clearly stolen the car and is hoping to escape this hell hole. He tries to deny this, telling me, in halting English, that he has a new job driving for the hotel. I smile knowingly, understanding what he is really saying. He is telling me that he has given up on life and has agreed to become a slave. To admit that openly would be, he senses, a transgression too far.

At the airport, I take my last chance to speak to an expat of the horrors they experience, daily. I signal to a cleaner, beckoning to him from where I sit on the toilet, pleading with him to join me. He hangs back, hesitant. He speaks no English at all, but I know what he's saying. He's trying to create a poetic metaphor about mirages, deserts, oases and that sort of thing, but can't quite find the words.

'Do you feel this place is like a mirage?' I ask him. 'A brittle rose of the desert, apparently whole, yet so delicate, crumbling when touched, yet so perfect to behold, as if buried in time, but ready to shrivel like a date in the midday sun?'.

'Yes, sir', he answers. I congratulate myself on pinpointing his thoughts so accurately.

My flight back is uneventful. I sit, drained, in First Class. The habits of expats have rubbed off on me, leaving me no choice but to numb myself with cheap liqour. Sharon from Manchester feeds me glass after glass of Moet. I look into her face, frozen as it is in an empty Bahdobian smile. I sense a feeling of utter revulsion coming from her as she looks at me. I know what she is thinking about – the desperate awfulness of the sweltering desert city we have left behind. 'Another glass, sir?' she asks. I know what she's really saying though. She turns her heard away from me, shamed that she has chosen to live anywhere other than London.

I whisk through Heathrow's VIP fast track. All around me I see pictures of the Sheikh. They are everywhere. Or am I getting confused with advertising boards again? Who knows - Bahdobian has left me dazed.

I pick up a copy of the paper on the way through. My Bahdobian Hell, the headline screams, my name and photo just below. Once again I'm filled with joy at seeing my face and name in print. The article I filed before leaving on holiday has been printed. Wikipedia and a quick phone call with Germaine were all I needed – she went on the Big Bus tour when she was over, after all. With contacts like these, my visit was superfluous. I had the material I needed to print straightaway, but five days' paid for holiday is five days' paid for holiday!

Finally reaching my bijou pied-a-terre, I collapse onto my sofa. Looking around, I am pleased to see that the cleaner's been while I was away. Everything is spic and span, my underpants ironed, bedclothes neatly made. That nice plumber form Poland has also popped around and fixed my blocked toilet. I write cheques to pay them their monthly wages. Should I give them a little extra, considering the great job they do? Maybe pay them the same amount I am paid for writing my in-depth reportage?

I decide not to do so.

That, I sense, might be a transgression too far.


Courtesy of Chris Saul :E

[Tower Ranger]

OMG , Thanks Jet
That is the funniest thing that i have read in ages.
I`d like to admit that I almost pissed myself laughing.

But that, I sense, may be a transgression too far!

[nolimitholdem]

Hey Tower Ranger, maybe you could whip down to the Xerox shop on SZR and use your EK discount to make a few copies of that article and try to get a few copies into the camps in Al Quoz. I hear those boys really appreciate a little smug satire. Who doesn't love a smarmy Brit journo. Hilarious!

(Note to the author: when your point has been made in the first line with the subtlety of an anvil dropped on your head, restating the same "joke" in variations for endless paragraphs only serves to demonstrate a love of ones own voice that borders on the masturbatory.)

So far the horrors of Dubai have been countered with:
1. Every place has it's problems. *shrug*
2. Paying a Pole in London to wash your windows = beating/raping/imprisoning your Filipino maid in Abu Dhabi.
3. The Americans/British did it first.
4. You don't live here so your opinion doesn't count.

I'm convinced. Dubai is just misunderstood. The UAE is actually a victim, and a model for the future.

[skysod]

My advice to all you ex-pats in Dubai.......stay there!
In the last 3 weeks, my son's best friend, my nephew, and my future son-in-law have all been attacked and badly beaten in separate incidents...my future son-in-law has lost several teeth, and his face is a total mess!

Was he drunk, or walking down an unlit footpath....no, he was simply driving home from work when a car overtook him, stopped abruptly, whilst a second car pulled up behind him so he was hemmed in, the occupants of both cars then dragged him out, beat him senseless and stole his laptop.

If the police even bother to persue this offence, and if they are lucky enough to catch the b@stards who did this to him, at worst they'll have to wear a tag for a few weeks.

There may be a lot of injustice in Dubai, but the scumbags over here always have the last laugh!

[OMDB-PiLoT]

There may be a lot of injustice in Dubai, but the scumbags over here always have the last laugh!

LOL! Good one skysod!

[rubik101]

Codger's post just about sums it up really.

The original article could so easily have been written substituting UK for Dubai. Talking of exploited workers from across the sea arriving with bright eyes and expectations of fairly lavish wages and sublime working conditions, having paid 'agents' for the trip, fit equally as well to Poles, Latvians, Portugese, Rumanians and so on. Whether they work as cheap, indentured labour in construction, (65% of the Olympic Village) or as fruit and veg planters, pickers, cleaners, packers, (90% in East Anglia) or sex slaves to 'gang-masters' in every city in UK (80%) they are not so different to the men and women mentioned in the original article.

The UK Gov't is powerless, in spite of UK and EU LAWS to prevent such things. Money changes hands and the laws are sidestepped. If they all went back home tomorrow the economy of the UK would collapse, as would the economy in the Gulf States. Even if the Gulf States passed humanitarian and begnign laws to protect the rights of workers, the same exploitation would flourish. They would simply look to the way the system flourishes in the UK and copy that.

I do not condone the exploitation of any man or woman in any industry and like most of us, wish things were different. To change such things requires determination, sympathy, patience and charity, all of which are sadly lacking in modern society.

Just as an aside, I am living in Thailand where the daytime temps are around 34-38C at the moment. I watch men and woman working on construction sites and road building projects and am astounded that they can work in such heat. I drip if I walk around the garden and pull up a weed! To be working in the Gulf when the temp is over 50C just seems inhuman. Then again, picking sugar beet at minus 5C in wind blasted Norfolk for less than the minimum wage seems equally inhuman.

**** happens, all over the place; the question is, what are you prepared to do about it?

[LLuke]

The (e.g.) Poles have a contract in UK, they can go to court together if the contract is not honoured, they can go home/resign if they don't like it any longer.

According to the various articles, workers from e.g. Manilla are promised reasonable salaries. Upon arrival their passports are confiscated, so they can't leave. They don't have a ticket to go home. They just get a couple of Euro's per day when they arrive, not enough to save for family at home or for a return ticket. It looks pretty different to me.

Same goes for the story of forced prostitution. I assume prostitution is illegal in the UK, making it more difficult to protest for prostitutes. But the weaker people in general get much better protection in the UK then in DXB. The story of the raped kid in DXB facing possible prison is surely/hopefully an incident but also a perfect case to illustrate this.

It is scaring that posters like Tower Ranger sort of condone it by using the argumentation of a 4 year old, that's it is ok, if it happens in other countries. It becomes pathetic the moment you realise that it simply isn't true.

[slatch]

just more of the same


Over 100 Filipino bus drivers stranded in Dubai | Sun.Star Network Online (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/manila/over-100-filipino-bus-drivers-stranded-dubai)

[rubik101]

Most, if not all, the Poles etc. who work in UK have their passports taken from them by the gangmasters. They are charged for their meagre and sometimes condemned accomodation, charged for transport to and from the fields they work in and have 'deductions' made to pay for NI, health insurance etc. Often, these charges are far greater than they need to be, the extra going in the pockets of the gangmasters. They have no contract that would be any use in a court.
This has been going on for years, since the 50s and is only now beginning to be stamped out, but it will take years.
Freedom to choose is not an option when you have no money, no passport and no hope of any realistic help from the authorities.
The UK is probably the worst of all in the EU for this practice.

[Tower Ranger]

LLuke
I think the thing that should scare you even more should either be your apparent inability to read or your ability to ignore what is written. I am not gonna waste time retyping what i have already written word for word but I in no way condone what goes on here and noboby posting on this forum does. What you seem uable to admit is that Dubai is not the only place in the world where employee abuse is taking place and that is what makes your attitude seem so strange. It appears that you only care about abuse and social problems that are not in your own back yard.

The vast majority of Philipino`s that I know are happy to be here although as I said earlier I have been involved with helping one escape from a scumbag employer, but then you wouldn`t have read that.

[LLuke]

Now you're doing it again; this strange way of reasoning. Your also suggesting I don't care about social issues outside DXB and am not willing to look at my own back yard. Both not true, both irrelevant to this thread.

"I said earlier I have been involved with helping one escape from a scumbag employer, but then you wouldn`t have read that."

Indeed I didn't see this, actually can't find it at all, but I would like to say I do admire this :ok:

[rubik101]

Tower Ranger, the dark side of pprune is within us. Your post has indeed been deleted. One has to ask why? I seem to recall it was a personal account of a problem experienced by a maid of your knowledge.
I wonder why that warrants dismissal?
Was it because the word maid could be misconstrued?
Were you implying some illegal liaison I wonder?
Was the MOD simply being random?
We would love to know!
Wouldn't we?

Ah forget it, this is pprune, run for the benefit of the mods, not the posters.

I give this post about 25 minutes.

[sanddude]

Where was it again? Those 20 chinese who died in that sea container 2 years ago. Was it holland or belgium? For sure they where on there way to the UK. All legally of course with a opportunity to back out:} whenever they wanted to.

[BusyB]

rubik101,

You do talk a load of rubbish. The II's may well not have passports but the majority of legal immigrants have and can leave when they like. In DXB we're talking about legally arrived workers who have their passports taken away:ugh:

[LLuke]

No sanddude, obvious to the rest of the world, it wasn't legal, and is not condoned by any government. That's what makes it different:{ It does not make it less tragic...

[zerozol]

after some days, there are still the same pro-s and contra-s for this topic.

some said that UAE is not perfect, but wich country in the world is? and others said okey, but indeed, it's disgusting what goes on in Dubai e.g.

you know what? i'm starting to feel that i have to leave the EU (not only because i'm from the central-eastern part of it; even the western part i would like to avoid.)

since several months, news about nepotism and hypocrisy in EU states makes me feel sad. why are we speaking of well-established democracy and human rights, green economy etc. if (just for a stupid example) the german members of the Comité can force the modification of the new law for the emission quotas of automobiles, in favour of their internal interest...(the original version wouldn't be so hard to bear.)

successfully, not to mention, and totally lacking conformity to the interest of our environment.
and so on, there are so many stories like this.

i'm not judgeing anyone, we all are just human beings, make mistakes etc.
i just can't take hypocrisy.

yes, Dubai's government is not aware of lot of things, for example construction companies taking passports etc. (at least; but maybe they are, but don't care a penny.) just like in every other countries, in other cases.

what a lot of guys are asking here, including me, is just to have a perspective.

are we aware of the things going on in EU offices, comités and institutions? do we read every single documents on their websites? are we protesting against every single decision wich is against nature or our interest?

our continent, system, people or anything like that is simply not better than other. this shows in the fact how the many of expats behave in leading positions in other continents, such as in Dubai...

we hold the key: not with silly articles lacking perspective, but with well-directed reports to the governments (for those whom is possible), and to international, civil institutions.

and at least but not last, with our determination to be "human" in every sense, to follow the basic ethics, morality, and to be an honest person. (anyway, this includes the perspective to issues like this, and to think about the things behind.)

okey, it's a bit pathetic and soap-opera-like, but i really believe this.

bye

[GBB]

Just one thing I would like to say.

To all the people that live in EU and complain about how sh!it things are!
Most of you have not even been to the ME so you know nothing about the place (or been on layover for a day or two). You dont know how good you have it in EU and try to look up places like Dubai with no human rights, no fredom of speech, run by morans. (talking about ME)
Some of you just talk alot of rubbish and try to compare ME to EU.
For those of you that try to convince you self that Dubai isnt that bad (bacuse you alredy there), I bet you that you would go back only if theres was a job with any major EU airline. Most of you (same as me) are here coz theres no better choice but would rather live somewhere else, just trying to convince your self that Dubai, Bahrain or Doha is what you really want.
Say whatever you want but deep inside you know that this place is sh!t.

[spanishfly69]

GBB, you can only speak for yourself. however you feel or what ever you thing you know, I really do not care. You cannot speak for me or many others that do enjoy Dubai. I have lived in South America, USA, and ME. And I can tell you that I have not desire to go back to either one.
Say what ever you want to say, but do not speak for others

[FlyingCroc]

is not a perfect place, however it is very stupid to compare the EU or the USA to the GCC. Again everyone who holds a EU or US passport has recourse to the law of the respective country just like a citizen. Unemployment insurance, pension fund, civil rights, labor laws, right to join a labor union,minimum wage, right to sponsor family members etc, etc,,,,
Just get this in your numb skulls: There are millions of people who would like to join this system from Asia, India, Mexico, Africa etc, and yes there is criminal abuse, slavery, human trafficking, sex trade by various criminal organizations in the EU and their home countries.

But the GCC is a whole different system. The GCC as a rich countries exploit and enslave the poor nation in Asia on purpose and they know very well what they do when they take the passports away. They have no interest to improve the situation of the laborers, maids and other slaves. The news article makes it very clear what the mindset of the locals is. Exactly the same opinion that our locals in the cockpit have. :yuk:
Once I showed on of these guys my electricity and water bill, he was shocked and said he never saw a water bill in his life! :eek:

[Jet II]

is not a perfect place, however it is very stupid to compare the EU or the USA to the GCC.

I would agree - considering that the UAE is is only 37 years old (I'm older than that!) then it really is a bit naive of people to expect that it will have the same laws and regulations in place as some of the oldest developed nations in the world.

Yes there are some things they could do better - and there are some laws that need better enforcement - but they are getting there. The rate of growth of the economy and society has been phenomenal - for people to whine that not everything is as well done in other more developed countries is rather petty.

It's a young country - give it a chance and it will get there. After all the countries of Europe have had hundreds of years and they still havn't got it all right.

[Jet II]

I bet you that you would go back only if theres was a job with any major EU airline.


Many people working here left major EU airlines.


Most of you (same as me) are here coz theres no better choice

Just because you cannot get a job in Europe I wouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

[C-17 GLOBEMASTER III]

Just hope no more people end up like this poor gent:

ABC News Exclusive: Torture Tape Implicates UAE Royal Sheikh - ABC News (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=7402099)

:(

[GBB]

And what is going to happen to that Sheikh? NOTHING
Now imagine any of EU PMs doing that and somebody vidoe taping it... He would end up in jail for very long time!
They might have 7 stars hotel, nice cars and big airplanes but they are still a 3rd world country!
I still think that people trying to defend this place must be "locals", blind or somebody is paying them to do so...
Petro-dollars will finish sooner or later and all this is going to turn against them.

[shazar]

Aljazeera documentary aired an excellent show lately about Dubai entitled "Dubai .. big dream for small emirate", addressing both economic success and social troubles plus negative sceneries of expatriates from other countries. It also covers an overview about success of Emirates Airlines.

I personally do not like Dubai but I think the programme is very objective and worth to watch, giving a balance of bad and good things. Just follow up the schedule from aljazeera documentary site to know about it. It is repeated several times.

Last night, I watched a show on Dubai TV with two journalists describing western media as biased and feel jealous because of Dubai success!! Even ruler of Dubai started to respond to media speculations about his health and Dubai economy.

[zerozol]

This incident is really shameful!! although i have some questions around it.

maybe it's better to wait where it will end.

if you want more forecast: what will Western countries, as well as international companies do?
nothing. no bans, no embargo.

that is shameful as well, not?

oh, sorry for telling this; oh yes, it's "not adequate" to compare such things...
you know what? i'm not comparing...

but a person with normal thoughts asks continuously. the one is shameful, the other as well. without comparing the quality or amount of the shame in them.

offence against Justice (with capital) is shameful, whoever commits it in any degree.

[Mr Mugabe]

I am not even going to waste my time to reply to any of these posts......
Wake up this is the third world......

Debbie Schlussel (http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2009/04/video_uae_princ.html)

Happy viewing.

[Jet II]

Debbie is a bit of a babe - but she ain't much cop as a reporter.

When you see all the skyscrapers and fancy hotels of Dubai....

Dubai is fast running out of oil...

And where are Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, George Clooney, and all the other faux-humanitarian celebs--all of whom hang out in the UAE's Dubai

Doesn't the dumb blonde know that this mush lives in Abu Dhabi :rolleyes:

[zerozol]

Mr Mugabe,

absolutely right...

just to add: the whole World is a real Third World.

ethics and charity became distant memories, in almost every corner of the Earth...

free thinking in West with no influence of politics to journalism? sweet paradise in Far-East with palm trees and white sand? come on...

[Al Fakhem]

Interesting to listen to the deafening silence in the Muslim world over this tape. Obviously, it's fine to beat the living sh1t out of a fellow believer (over a matter of $5000, no less), as long as you're a good old Sheikh.

Imagine, if that had been, let's say, an American beating up an Afghani?

The mind boggles.

[sanddude]

The GN carried a piece about it today. Lets see what happens.

By the way LLUKE are you claiming human trafficing is legal in the UAE?

[Monty77]

This sort of thing never happened to Native Americans when the West was being 'won'.

Play ball with me and I'll shove the bat right up your arse.

And by the way, all of Dakota's mine, not yours.

They made made us many promises, and they kept only one: They promised to take our land, and they took it.

And that was how the 'West' was one.

[WhatsaLizad?]

Monty77,

Another bit of "Euro Relativism" huh?

By in large most of those affected seem to be from outside the United States and Dubai itself.

My guess is that it's pretty sorry behavior if you have to go back 150 years ago to make these clowns look good. Don't let that stop your whiny, idiotic logic if it makes you feel better.

Know any place to get a good Che' T-shirt cheap?:E

[fractional]

it really is a bit naive of people to expect that it will have the same laws and regulations in place as some of the oldest developed nations in the world
These countries here had competent (many times greedy) advisors after their independences from more advanced countries, but failed to change their mentalities. They have the money to make things happen in a much, much shorter time than other countries with longer spells of human decent rights. And they change at their pace. Look at the western stuff imported from the older countries? Museums, top fashion design, F1 races, live concerts, 7* hotels, leisure parks, you name, all good stuff. Ladies of leisure are not an expensive commodity here and they are not being a western trademark lately in this region. Again pure exploitation.
The problem here is their (convenient) failing to change mentalities, and this helps their cause for continued exploitation without being checked, at least not for now.
Very little has been done no matter what these guys here say (and claim) about the little fortunes they pay to the exploited, because their earnings (or none at all) in their own countries are worse.
This is all over the place no matter what a country claims to be (not guilty).
Shame! Shame! Shame!

[zerozol]

okey, WhatsaLizad?,

then let's go back only 44 years, when in Virginia, US, there was the last law still in stand forbidding marriages between afro-americans and whites. they abolished it in that year.
it was in 1965. i repeat, not "once upon a time", just 44 years ago. in the United States of America, against their Constitution of 1776, saying "every human being is equal." and 100 years after the Civil War of 1865.
the US had to have 100 years to abolish the last discriminating law.

but, indeed, shame and shame all of those who exploit, rape or ban other humans and their rights, whether in Dubai or Paris or anywhere in the Globe.
i think a normal one doesn't question that.
the problem is the direction and the lack of perspective concerning these "human right watch" -articles.
it is like "finally, we found something really wrong about UAE, yippie yeeeeah!"
and oh no, i'm not saying that everything is okey there, if somebody reads carefully. :)

and changing mentality (about these issues) doesn't come fast, it's not like changing someone's opinion to drink Coke instead of Pepsi. :) silly example, but i think picturesque.
but yes, they have to work on it! i just think that we can't expect sudden and fast changes, it just doesn't work like this.

[4HolerPoler]

QNhp8nQqqrI

Just another day on SZR.

Speechless? Nah, it happens all the time.

[ProteaPete]

4hp I thought there was gonna be a "happy ending" to that movie - with some smoking wreckage as the brothers did us all a huge favour and removed themselves from the gene pool - albeit very much the shallow end of the gene pool. Why do you torment us???

[Straight & Level]

I love the fact that these d!cks have their Hazard lights flashing away whilst showboating on SZR. Like that would make them invincible :ugh:

[Turkeyslapper]

And I just had a fine "appear" on the RTA website for lane discipline!! No ticket or explanation...just an anonymous addition, yet I see these clowns do this stuff on the road everyday without any fear of the authorities or respect for the other road users - they might go to police jail if they pull over the wrong person.:ugh:

Don't get me wrong I still enjoy living here however these things certainly make me think WTF???

[sandblasted]

Had the same, know exactly when it happened as I saw the gentleman take my no down, I made the mistake of indicating when I moved lanes and crossed slowly when someone let me in.. must remember to cross quicker without indicators next time :ugh: