A&P Licence

[g_funk]

Hi guys.

I am considering going to the states to get an A&P licence. I am from the UK and wish to emmigrate there if poss. i am close to getting my EASA B1 licence at the moment so will have that to fall on if it doesn't go through. just wandering if any of you guys had any advice on where is best to study/take FAA exams and is it a similar standard to the UK CAA exams.

thanks in advance

g

[MrFixer!!!]

Hi g-Funk, I got my FAA A & P recently, so hope the info is recent and helpful:

I went to American Airman in Long Island, New York. The guys there are very very switched on, they will guide you all along, I would recommend them highly.

Plan around 10 days for everything.

You said you are just going to get your B1, so I assume you have the required experience already??? Be very careful about the FAA requirements!!! Have you got any experience on N-registered aircraft or do you work on N-reg aircraft?

Be prepared for all the questions you will be asked from the FAA inspector before giving you the Authorisation to appear for written exams.

There is a whole process which in a sequence goes as:

1) Get an experience letter from your company mentioning all the aircraft and the type of experience you have, ( theres lot of info on the net about the acceptable format of experience letters for FAA),

2) Take your experience letter to CAA,UK, and get an authentication Letter from them, basically, endorsing your experience.( they charge a fee for it)

3) select a school in USA and enrol yourself, select the dates and ask them to arrange for the visit to FAA office for getting permission to write the exams.

4) I ordered the exam prep books long before I went, it actually helps if you want to save yourself time to prepare. I knocked everything out in 5 days.

Any other info needed, feel free to pm me and I will try and help,

Good Luck mate!!!

[Miles Gustaph]

MrFixer offers some very sage advice there, but just to re-emphasis what he has said, the FAA will require a letter saying that you have N registered experience and that it is required for your job.

A lot has changed in the last year, do read the FAA regulations, it's not a quick study holiday like it use to be.

[MrFixer!!!]

You are absolutely right Miles.......I never understood why people like to think getting FAA is easy......I had a B****dy hard time getting it.....only getting the answers doesnt solve the problem.... also convinsing that FAA examiner......I been Licensed around 7 years now but yeah getting to know about Fabrics,wood,Light aircraft, Piston engines, propellers......that was harddddd, I dont know anything about them....all along worked only on Big Boys jets. Never mind its over and done.....and Miles is absolutely right.......its not a holiday definitely.......be prepared for some hard work!!!!!

[TURIN]

Plan around 10 days for everything.

I knocked everything out in 5 days.


A lot has changed in the last year, do read the FAA regulations, it's not a quick study holiday like it use to be.


I know, a mate of mine did it in 3 days!! :\

[MrFixer!!!]

Turin, you cannnnnn, if u want you can do it in any time you want......but would be idiotic to rush into it and then failing them......its not wise quoting how long the mate took.......how about going and taking the plunge yourself and then see how long it takes???? and dont forget the FAA Examiners are not just sitting there on the table with a cup of coffee to take your exam anytime and anywhere you want. you take the exam only when they say they can take it!!!! so dont quote on hearsay, and most of the colleges say come prepared to spend atleast 10 days unless you fail any of the tests and can only do them after a month atleast.

[the rim]

just read all the posts and wow it does look a lot harder then when i did mine twenty years ago but i guess all things change look at the easa lic now thats hard and our aussie one...sorry we have two now easa as well as the old one and you have to pay for doing your basic's as well good luck to all you guys and girls

[Exup]

I have to agree with the above post. I did mine about 10 years ago & I dont think much has changed since then. If you can read the question, remeber the answer, which in the books in had were in bold type you should easily pass. I didnt even bother reading the explanations in the book as so much of it was directed towards General aviation which I do not need. I had finished mine in 5 days but allowed 10 so had a bit of a holiday (company paying). If you have nearly finished your B1 you will P##s it

[born1987]

is it really so easy guys ?just study question and answer then i think the american planes can crash anywhere and anytime. and what is basic requirement to give faa exam i havent worked on N registered but worked for 1 year on VT registered aircraft can i appear for exam.

[smudgethecat]

Yes it is that easy almost a joke really you just cannot compare it to a EASA CASA etc level of licence , did mine two years ago, as said it designed for americans to pass so that tells you all you need to know really

[Eng AW139]

I did mine in 5 days 3 days of writing 1 prep for the oral & pratical.

The oral & pratical was 10 hours in west LA and the inspector put me though the works. That I had found was the hardest part.

[BigJoeRice]

"Yes it is that easy almost a joke really you just cannot compare it to a EASA CASA etc level of licence"

Then one wonders why you and all the other geniuses who hold the license and thus the FAA system that issued it in such contempt, expend the time and money to acquire it.

[smudgethecat]

Simple joe, the company i worked for at the time were looking after some N reg aircraft and for legal reasons needed some of us to hold a A@P, however im not claiming to be a genius, im simply saying the A@P is very very easy to obtain compared to other licences

[bvcu]

Need to put it into context , its a MECHANICS certificate , not an engineers licence. Totally different system to ours . I have both and used A&P on 747 's ,we did the work and any decisions , i.e MEL release involved a phone call to MCC where the equivalent to our LAE made the decision and let you release it. Took a bit of getting used to when you were turning a couple around and one was N reg and the other not !!!! Had to remember to make the phone call !!!

[camlobe]

Hi g_funk.

Good luck with your B1.

You don't say what your background is in aeroengineering, light or heavy. What would be worthwhile is getting as much experience on as many different types of construction materials (metal, wood and fabric, composite) as possible. Also, try and get some component experience as well e.g. strip and rebuild a magneto (U/S training aid of course), hydraulic actuator/PFCU etc. Expand your technical horizons as much as possible.

The United States Freedom of Information Act has ensured that all the questions asked on the A&P written exams are in the public domain - but there are an awful lot of questions in the data base.

There are some excellent study guides available for the three exams, Airframe, Powerplant and General. These are available in book format, electronic (i.e. CD), and are also downloadable. Their cost is not the usual UK/Euroland silly prices either. Do heavy home-study of the content of these guides before you head Stateside. It will make it so much easier.

As mentioned by my eminent peers above, justification must be demonstrated. As a minimum, your employer must state, on company-headed paper, that the organisation maintains 'N' registered aircraft and that there is a need for you to hold appropriate Certificates to certify those aircraft.

Applications in the UK used to be through the West Drayton FAA office, but I have been led to believe this is/may be closed.

If you are attempting to gain your FAA A&P Certificate with experience based on your (soon to be) B1 licence, the UK CAA will be required to advise the FAA that your B1 licence does exist, and the CAA will charge you for this letter. Contrary to some opinions, you do not need to have an extant licenct to base your application. However, you will need to prove a level and extent of experience that meets the FAA minimum guidlines. The FAA website www.faa.gov (http://www.faa.gov) contains all relevant information, although navigating through it can be difficult for the newcomer.

If your application is accepted, the next bit of hard work starts. There are a number of 'schools' who can ease your path towards the A&P. The time taken is dependant on your level of experience and your knowledge.

You will sit your written exams (in reality, they are 'click' exams on a PC live linked to the FAA. If you pass, or if you fail, you are told immediately on screen (CAA please take note).

If you are successful, then it is just the practical and the oral left.

The practical is litterally that. You will get dirty hands. Cut, bash, drill and rivet; dismantle and reassemble a component; functionally check resistors and verify their values; dress a propeller or compressor blade; remove a piston engine cylinder and check ring gaps; measure turbine creep; etc, etc and it must all be in accordance with the correct manual which you must locate from the tech library.

Finally, you will have a one-to-one with a guy who will know more than you ever will, so, no bullsh1tting. If you don't know, say so. This person may be a DER or Designated Engineering Representitive. DER's are extremely experienced A&P's with Inspector Authorised ratings who are authorised to act on behalf of the FAA and will have been there, seen it and done it (CAA take note). Because they are from our side of the fence, they can smell a porky pie before you even say it, so be totally honest.

Your Oral exam will drag every last bit of your knowledge and experience out of you. You will be suprised how much you really do know, which is much less than what you don't know. The Oral covers the same three subjects as your 'click' exams.

If you are successful, you will be immediately issued with your Temporary A&P Certificate, the privelages of which you may excercise immediately (CAA take note). Your 'credit card' Certificate will be posted to your home address by the FAA.

Should anyone try and advise you that it is a walk-in-the-park, just ignore them. You will know yourself that you worked hard to gain that little piece of plastic.

Oh, and for TURIN, tell your mate he wasn't trying hard enough. I did mine in late 2006...in one day, and that was at Embery-Riddle College of Aeronautics in Daytona, Florida. I was made to sweat hard all day and the Practical and Oral drew upon every facet of the last 30 years of my experience.

Embery-Riddle were extremely helpfull and receptive and I would recommend you contact them for guidance or help. If you want a contact name, drop me a PM.

I hope the above is of some help, and good luck.

camlobe

[146fixer]

I did mine a good few years ago to.The writtens were no problem at all.But the practical was a differant matter,13 hours all together.Helicopters,piston engines,gasturbines,wood props,de-icer boots pretty well covered the lot.The examiner was no push over and made it as hard as possable.
Met a few good A & P guys and a few bad B1 and B2 over the years.Worked with some ex section L guys who I wouldnt let fix my wheel barrow let alone a plane.Alot of its got to do with the individuals natural ability and not the exams they take.

[toolboxstickers]

Is there just one A&P certificate covering everything,so you can`t do, say, exams on just piston engines and metal airframes, as under the CAA and EASA system?

[ferrydude]

"Finally, you will have a one-to-one with a guy who will know more than you ever will, so, no bullsh1tting. If you don't know, say so. This person may be a DER or Designated Engineering Representitive. DER's are extremely experienced A&P's with Inspector Authorised ratings who are authorised to act on behalf of the FAA and will have been there, seen it and done it (CAA take note). Because they are from our side of the fence, they can smell a porky pie before you even say it, so be totally honest.


I believe you are confusing a DME for a DER. A DME, Designated Mechanic Examiner is the person authorized to administer the oral and practical exams.

A DER holds a university issued engineering degree and is not authorized to administer mechanic examinations

[born1987]

guys its not only faa licence that is easy to get.easa licence can also be get easily but u have to go to spain they too have question displayed on there site and u can easily cram those question and answer and give exam and u will surely get your easa licence.this is really bad for easa reputation but this is reality guys.

[Long Bay Mauler]

I did my A & P's at the American Airman School at the Francis.S.Gabreski Airport on Long Island,NY as well circa 1998.

It was certainly not a school,but a facility for getting your A & P's quickly.May have changed now,can only hope so

My advice to you is read all the theory books before you get there and you should be able to do all the theory exams in the one day.Then spend the next day doing the practical & oral prep,and then on the third day actually do your prac with the examiner.If you work on heavy jets currently,expect a rough time,but I am sure you will pass without too much hestitation.The bloke is a first rate kn0b,but just remember what you are there for.

A & Ps are really quite easy compared to most other exams I have done.And if I can pass them,then 99% of the industry can too.

If you want more info,then PM me.

[Flightmech]

Who cares how hard or easy it is to get, you can make some good money with it:ok:

[MD11Engineer]

I did mine about 8 years ago and it took me 5 days in an A&P school in Dallas, Texas (Not ACME, the school I went to was quite small and AFAIK the owner closed it a few years ago after he retired). The reason was that I was (already a B1 at the time) working for a company, which had a maintenance contract for an American airline.
If you are not an American citizen or resident in the US, the biggest obstacle will be to provide a letter stating that you, as a foreigner, require an FAA licence to service N-registered aircraft. This letter has to come from the operator or the maintenance company and it is even better if it states that there is no American citizen available to do the job. Fortunately I got one from the wellknown American freight airline, which was accepted by the FAA field rep during the preliminary interview (which was also used to check my ability to speak, read and write English).

[simonchowder]

Im not a engineer so could not comment on the technical issues but i do know as someone in the recruitment game that holders of UK and Australian issued engineer licences appear to be held in the highest regard world wide, whilst the A@P certificate is regarded as something of a joke, whether this justified or not i wouldnt like to say but that is how it is.

[asacrj]

Im not a engineer so could not comment on the technical issues but i do know as someone in the recruitment game that holders of UK and Australian issued engineer licences appear to be held in the highest regard world wide, whilst the A@P certificate is regarded as something of a joke, whether this justified or not i wouldnt like to say but that is how it is.


Yet mechanics with A/P in the USA work on more aircrafts in a day than mechanics in the whole of europe plus Australia combined. Not to mention that these same A/P mechanics are the one who work the assembly lines at Boeing, Cessna, beechcraft, lockheed ...ect.

I work as a mechanic for an airline in the US that has more flights and more planes than BA and Qantas combined and we operate boeing, MD Douglas, Airbus, Canadair and Embraer jets and yet me and my coworkers do a pretty good job at keeping our planes safely in the air.

You see, you people with your B1 and B2 can call A/P and A/P license holders any kind of names you want however I know one thing, when it comes to aircraft maintenance I'm has good has anybody else anywhere in world.

Anyway I'm tired now, I just finished return to service an airplane that just Took off for 15 hour flight to the middle east with about 245 souls on board. Not bad for somebody who has a license that some of you call a joke.:ok:

[born1987]

so at last i got to know that it doesnt matters how much maintenance experience u r having but till your company dont have N register aircraft u cant appear for a+p .well its not with easa licence which is good thing.and guys just want to know that in usa its a and p and in europe its easa and in asia its icao then which one in africa and antartica?

[born1987]

so at last i got to know that it doesnt matters how much maintenance experience u r having but till your company dont have N register aircraft u cant appear for a+p .well its not with easa licence which is good thing.and guys just want to know that in usa its a and p and in europe its easa and in asia its icao then which one in africa and antartica?

[MD11Engineer]

Well, IMO, the A&P licence doesn't go as much in depth as the EASA (or even more the CAA, LBA or IAA, which I had before the EASA licence, licence), but is spread out more.
E.g. while the European licences are pretty restricted to aircraft categories, but demand a large amount of knowledge within this category, the A&P system demands a lot, but not very deep knowledge about the whole range, e.g. I had to learn stuff all the way from wooden, fabric covered glider repair, via WW2 era piston engines and props, helicopters to turbine engines and heavy jets, plus avionics (no seperation between A&C and X, or B1 and B2 licence in their system).
The European system is more specialised, but demands more knowledge within the speciality.
From my experience, the Irish IAA exams (which are based on the British CAA system) were much harder than the A&P exams. The written exams were essay type exams, lasting about 2 hours for each category (airframe, gas turbine engines, electrics, general and air legislation), with typical questions like: "Describe in detail (with drawings, if necessary) the lubrication system of a turbine engine of your choice" or "Explain in detail the internal workings of a static inverter unit". Also, the Irish disn't publish exam questions.
Then, after you have passed the written exam for a category, you were invited to the IAA headquarters in Dublin and grilled for one hour by two examiners during an oral exam. They had the written results in front of them and were poking for weak areas in your knowledge. These exams definitely left youi feel wrung out and covered in sweat.

The multiple choice A&P was much easier for me (I don't know about the EASA exams, never did any of them, since I had my old Irish licence grandfathered into a B1 licence).
The practical exam for the A&P was a joke, ok, I already had years of aircraft experience behind me at this time (though most of uit on heavy metal) and a German apprenticeship is quite thorough on hands on experience and workmanship as well.
Concerning the A&P oral exam, I thought it would never end. Later I discovered that the lady examiner read the whole list of questions to me, but the questions themselves were pretty easy and could be easily solved with a bit of common sense.

[simonchowder]

I certainly wasnt implying A and p holders are any less able than anyone else, im only saying that it isnt generally held in high regard as a qualification where as some other licences are, for eg UK and AUS issued licences

[ferrydude]

Two different philosophies regarding certification. FAA is intentionally broad and relies on industry for weeding out those not capable, the methodology is efficient and effective. The dispatch reliability and safety records of carriers maintained by those with "highly regarded" maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.:ok:

[Miles Gustaph]

Ferrydude,
do you want to back that up with numbers?
or just amount of number of aircraft grounded due to non-compliance to mandatory inspections?

[ferrydude]

absolutely, prove me wrong:)

[Miles Gustaph]

Ferrydude,

What’s with the evasive answer? I asked a simple question, “Do you want to back that up with numbers?” you say, “absolutely, prove me wrong.”
So where are your numbers, come on how can I prove you wrong if you’re not going to justify your big bold claim?
Tell you what lets keep things fair I’ll go first:

You said: “[The] safety records of carriers maintained by those with "highly regarded" maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics. ”

I said, as stated above:

“Do you want to back that up with numbers?”

You said, well we’ve been through that, you didn’t…

Iata say: “North Asia had a perfect record of zero hull losses in 2008. North America (0.58), Europe (0.42) and Asia / Pacific (0.58) all performed better than the global average.”
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/2009-02-19-01.htm (http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/2009-02-19-01.htm)

…and Flight Global they say, in response to your comment, “maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.” say:

“US FAA fines Southwest $10.2 million for missing fleet inspections
Southwest Airlines grounded nearly 7% of its Boeing 737 fleet in mid-March after the FAA proposed a record $10.2 million fine for missed fleet inspections and after a congressman charged that the carrier's "cosy" relationships with FAA on-site ­inspectors had endangered safety.
For an airline that wins award after award as an admired company, and as the US carrier that carried the most domestic passengers in 2007 - 101.9 million - the possible erosion of its reputation presents a serious challenge”

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/03/20/222313/southwest-fined-10.2m-for-missing-fleet-inspections.html (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/03/20/222313/southwest-fined-10.2m-for-missing-fleet-inspections.html)

I particularly like the comment made by Garry Kelly, Southwest Airlines Chief Executive: "We have safely transported the population of the United States four and a half times" great comment to put at the end of an article where his airline has ignored mandatory inspections on 7% of it’s fleet… can you help with the numbers there? How many people did that endanger?

Let’s do some very basic maths here:
Population of the U.S.A = 306,252,710 (http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html (http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html))

So 306252710 x 4.5= 1,278,137,195 people flown, 7% of fleet missed mandatory inspections = 96,469,603.65 people flown on aircraft with missed mandatory checks, do you thing Garry Kelly uses the same smiley as you when he talks about safety?

Ok I’m being mean you can have your statement “maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.” in Europe were not as good as you guys in the states, and lest not forget while “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics” the Southwest incident didn’t do any good for the aviation industry in the Sates or anywhere for that matter!






.

[ferrydude]

Nice try Miles, typical faulty logic. I do hope your aircraft troubleshooting skills don't follow similar logic. Please tell me how hull loss statistics have anything to do with maintenance quality, or dispatch reliability? Tell me how many of those hull losses counted by IATA were lost due to poor maintenance?

How does Southwest being fined by the FAA have anything to do with A&P certification being "easy".


"Our tests are harder than yours, therefore we are better" Yeah, right.

Same logic is, "our country is so much older than yours, therefore we are better"

Non compliance with mandatory inspections were management decisions. It has absolutely nothing to do with mechanic licensing being easy, lax, etc.

[smudgethecat]

Chill out dude no one saying that anyones any better than any else, the fact is compared to some licences the A&P is very easy to obtain it requires no where near the same level of knowledge or effort than say obtaining BCAR licence required and thats a fact, end of story really as for europe being better, of course were better no sane person could argue otherwise:)

[MrFixer!!!]

Cummon guys, Chill out......the poor guy only wanted to know how and where to get his A & P......instead of helping him out or guiding him.....everyone seems to enter the forum with blazing guns everywhere!!! :ugh:. Nobody is better or worse, its all down to certifying individuals....I have seen so many penpushers having Licenses...both from FAA & EASA(JAR). so its NOT down to standards of any country or their authority but rather its the person and how they do their job!!! We can go on and on and on needlessly arguing about who and what is better!!!!

[ferrydude]

Agreed. My point is, "highly regarded" is a moot point. Highly regarded by whom, willy waivers?

[simonchowder]

Im not a engineer, i couldnt pass a technical exam A@ P or otherwise to save my life, however i do know a bit about engineer recruitment and i do know that for whatever reasons engineers holding the A@P qualification are deemed by employers to be less qualified that those holding certain other licences the general consesus is A@P holders are classed as "mechanics" whilst for eg holders of CAA licences are seen as "engineers "all seems a bit strange to me but thats how it is.
Further one thing i can say is EASA licence holders(and CASA) especially if UK or German issued in the B1 AND B2 cat with type ratings attract a higher renumeration genearally than A@P holders, again whether that is justified or not i could not say

[TURIN]

The thing is, I like A & P Mechanics, but I also like B1 Engineers.

But which is best?





There's only one way to find out.





FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!:E

[MrFixer!!!]

Dont know how old you are Turin!!!

But you definitely need growing up!!! :ugh:

[Von Klinkerhoffen]

It does seem that most jobs advertised outside of North America are for EASA licence holders and not for A&P . I have often toyed with the idea of doing an A&P as well but it always seems to come back to the above reason that I can't seem to justify the time and expence of doing it !

On a slight tangent , I have heard a rumour (pprune after all !) that the CAA are looking to go back to the old BCAR system because of the lack of a level playing field between EASA member states and the way they issue licences: re comment above about Spain and we've all heard about the French !! Anyone else heard the same ?????????

[TURIN]

Oh dear! Sense of humour failure Mrfixer?:zzz:

[MrFixer!!!]

Nothing to do with failure of sense of Humour matey!!! but sometimes these stupid remarks and comments just doesnt help the guy who is genuinely asking for help or need some genuine info !!! Thats all!!!

[TURIN]

If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.

Go and have a bevvy old chap, life's too short.

Goodnight.:bored:

[MrFixer!!!]

Now dont pretend you were trying to be funny here!!! If u wanna be funny, go and join some circus somewhere!!! If you cant be useful to somebody atleast dont try and show how useless you are!!! Try and sleep over it!! Might grow up by tomm morning!!!

[smudgethecat]

Actually its not just the basic licence qualification thats dumbed down its the same with the type courses, i did FAA approved a300 course with fed ex it was a joke, three weeks and that covered everything, avionics engines airframe it was like something a first year apprentice would do, compare that to the twelve weeks plus you would spend doing a CAA approved course to cover the b1 and b2 subjects and to top it all the exam was open book !complete farce from start to finish. i think the whole thing goes back to the fact aircraft mechs are considered to be semi skilled in the states at best and the whole licence and training system reflects that standard

[sevenforeseven]

A&P, Hmmm. Apply and pass.:ok:

[BAe146s make me cry]

Hmm... It might well be worth looking at what the NAA's expect of
their own LAE's, AMT's or LAME's that work or qualify under regulations.
The FAA A&P has not really altered much in over 40 years. So much
technology including many materials & practices have evolved in that time.

Implementation of FAR 66 failed apparently due to the objection of US MRO's Workers Unions if I'm correct?

There is a relatively new NBAA initiative to enhance the training and qualification of all FAA AMTs. How much support they will gain from
the US MRO industry (or the FAA even) appears unknown.

http://www.nbaa.com/prodev/bootstrap/whitepaper.pdf

If it enhances the training, standards and prospects of the AMT,
I support it fully. But, it will need bigger FAA AMT staff inputs to succeed.

In my career so far, I've been in a good position to assess many FAA/EASA/CASA aircraft maintenance certifiers based on their true competences, maintenance standards, attention to the finer details and importantly, attitude. I won't go into how some of these amusing clowns percieve good team building and demonstrative leadership.

There have been equal numbers of FAR65 A&P AMTs and EASA Part66 LAEs whose standards have been far less than basics the NAA demands.
Many of these likely gained qualification merely on attendance or repeated use of Q&A 'Study Guides' , not effort or merit. It is far too evident when
working with such individuals to deny..

The FAA/SWA B737 AD business was compounded by a local (and
cozy) team of FAA inspectors that granted permission for AD extension...
Clearly unnacceptable, this has since been dealt with. I am also aware
of many more serious issues with the FAA, not least the laziness and
makeup of the FAA AFS-300 Mechanic Licensing Dept at Oklahoma.
Very little can be acheived communicating from the outside of a licensing Dept run largely by college graduates with limited comprehension of current AMT duties. Limited concept of international licensing initiatives & developments also a big factor in the unwillingness of the FAA to maintain
equivalence.

As for EASA/UKCAA? The 20+ British Airways Engineering line station FAA AMTs that were granted restricted EASA Part66 B1.1s by the UKCAA without additional examination on the basis of required EASA regulation conversion reports (THAT ACTUALLY DO NOT EXIST -UKCAA/EASA confirmed) continue to certify EASA registered aircraft to this day. As stated before, these EASA Part 66 Licences have no official conversion report - what would the fallout be if those licences were withdrawn???
Keep up the pressure ALAE 1981.

I think the EASA Part 66 AML is here to stay until events (holes in ground)
prove otherwise. The 'B' licences I think will merge ultimately, which is academically far larger than the A&P syllabus. The 'B' AML holders will then operate as 'A&C' or 'Avionics' under that AML. Existing B1/B2 combined AML holders work to this today at my company, mostly operating in 'A&C' or 'Avionics' capacities. Very very few are comfortable with the entire scope of both present B1/B2 AML's but will happily take the money.. Thats of course to be expected!

Solid training & practical skillsets amongst all NAA's certifying staff will need to improve as aircraft technology evolves, simple. With thorough training, attested practical experience & a decent Oral/Practical examination (This should return for EASA Part 66, make no mistake)
comes good standards.

BAE 146
Avionic Tech
FAA AMT

P.S. MrFixer, I'm certain Turin was having a laugh, I had a chuckle :)

[born1987]

in newzeland caa website you can see that all licences can be convert to caa licence by giving few papers but its clearly mention that faa a+p is not accepted to convert. and can a single person hold B1/B2 ?its not with icao licence u can have either A&C or avionics licence.

[simonchowder]

We have people with B1/B2 and we used to have guys with A&C and multi x under the BCAR system .
(bit off subject it and it may be a sign of the times but more and more people are requesting if possible that applicants hold a EASA licence issued by the UK CAA.)

[TURIN]

Bae146.

That is the most accurate and honest assesment of the current situation I have ever read. Bravo. :ok:


Oh, and the bit about Licensing was quite nice too.:D

[BAe146s make me cry]

ASKFAP

You possibly might have a different take on the FAA A&P when
it's the first AML in your career (As it was mine). I went to the USA
studied up (nearly 2 years), practically experienced, prepared and well read within the required syllabus as per the FAR system.

I've already detailed a few major flaws with the FAA A&P, hopefully this
will change for the better because it needs to. It is worth remembering
many FAA AMTs (IA's and otherwise) work tirelessly in the US and around the world in equivalent positions to your own with similar if not identical certification responsibilities.

Better LAE/AMT/LAME Basic & Type Training, Standards & Prospects are needed now more than ever, regardless of NAA. As a former BCAR holder, you know that.

BAe146
FAA AMT
www.alae.org (http://www.alae.org)

[Flightmech]

I thought this thread was about how to obtain an A&P??:rolleyes:

It can be like comparing apples with apples. There are some A&P mechanics who have a huge amount of experience and are great on the tools, then you get B1/B2 guys who are very academic but struggle to do anything at all practically.

There's no doubt the A&P was easier (although you can be undone by the practical) than the A&C, but theres no need to bash the guys who have one.:=

[born1987]

everybody in the land of dreaming..:~)

[Miles Gustaph]

and today's gold star goes to Flightmech...

well said... :D

[loon744]

I would have to say that the FAA licence was the easiest set of exams that I have ever done. I have licences in a few countries UK, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and the good old USA.

When I did the A&P licence I flew from Singapore to LA read some books on the flight went to the hotel walked down to the exam centre sat 2 exams and passed. I then went back in the morning for the 3rd, passed that one and had a practical the next morning, flying back to Singapore with the temp certificate in hand in the early evening after the practical.

I will admit that I had wooden/fabric aircraft experience as well as composite, avionics, piston and turbine engine coupled with large and small airframe experience. I had also been instructing on some large aircraft types over the few years before doing my A&P, so I may have been more current on theory than some, and I did find it very straight forward both in the exams and the practical areas.

So don't let anyone try to put you off or make you think that it is difficult just prepare yourself fully and most importantly during the exams RTFQ.................. READ THE F*#KING QUESTIONS and you will have very few issues with the exams.

Oh, BTW I work within the FAA system and have done for the last 7 years, I find it less restrictive and on the whole the people I work with are pretty good at wrenching, so no one should run people down based on the qualifications they have.

[411A]

I managed to do that easily but in truth I wouldn't trust myself to work in his world.

One must take anything determined by ASFKAP with the perverbial grain of salt...keeping in mind. of course, of those of his 'calibre' being unable to properly service (let alone understand) certain large jet transport aircraft manufactured by the Lockheed California Company...which oddly enough, were kept propery serviced and fully understood by FAA certificated A&P mechanics (and certificated Inspectors) with very good success.
For many years.:rolleyes:

PS:
On the other hand, perhaps it was just ASFKAP that had this particular problem.
One will never know for sure.:}

[X-1]

...it's a memory test, read the questions and answers, then go take the test. 10 days including the practical is not to much of a problem. Although saying that, I had a friend who's practical was 3 days..the FAA examiner guy was just getting free work out of him !!!:=

[ricoace]

An A&P doesnt gauge your intelligence, your aptitude ,who you are, or what you are. Its simply a license to get hired at a airline or whatever and learn how to be a mechanic. Its a flipping license to learn.

Some of you need to get off your flipping high horses!

[boyze]

Hi I have been looking for a school in the states to carry out the 7 day (ish) training, can anybody recommend one? I also have a friend living in chicago who could put me up so if anybody knows of one in that general area that would be helpful but not essential.

Thanks in advance

[Miles Gustaph]

Boyze,

try and find a school that will accept you first. Thats not being rude but your profile says Kent, and unless you can satisfy the entry requirements you wont be going, as the rules have changed in the last year...or so.

[Ladytech]

The only reason A&P mechs are considered semi skilled is because we are REQUIRED to use THE maintenance manual for work on A/C. Normal union workers (ie: bricklayers,carpenters etc) that have been thru an apprentice program
are considered skilled because they do not need book references to do a job.
It is just the way the labor dept in the gov't defines "skill".
I don't care which license you hold- it still takes at least 5 yrs practical experience to make you any good in this business. Line vs Overhaul is just a different set of skills used daily.

[Miles Gustaph]

ASFKAP,
I'm sorry but your wrong, look at the pre-joining requirements.

One onf the prejoining requirements, the "do you need an A&P" ticket can be very hard for an EASA zone engineer to satisy.

A lot has changed with the A&P reciently

[fastener]

Just my two cents worth,
Don't forget that in many US airlines you will not even get in the door without the A&P. At American Airlines all the bods have an FAA ticket. Then you do your 5 min type course but you will still not be able to sign some tasks or other peoples work. It will take more training before you will be able to sign for the same tasks as a B1. I know that in the states some people take years to get to the top of the tree so to speak. In EU land we do one licence and one type course per type and thats your lot. In a large airline the average A&P will (should) recieve more type related continuation training during the course of his career and more mini-courses on trouble shooting, avionics etc etc. EU side in the good old days most mechs would have completed a "proper" apprenticeship to work as a mech, but now....Anyway I just wanted to point out that although the A&P is probably (definately) easier to pass its just the start in a big airline environment. Now in the below 2730kg/helicopter category that a different story and there is no equivalent licence for the B2 or rotorcraft in FAA land.

[boyze]

Thanks for you replies guys, luckily I have work for a company that requires the A&P, could anybody recommend a school they have used in the past?

[LME (GOD)]

try aeronautical institute of technology, redbird airfield in dallas. Good school with no short cuts. Plus hotels are cheap in the area:ok:

[flyingvikings]

Mates, are there any good A&P schools in Canada? Please someone advise. Does anyone knows the average salary of an A&P technician in Canada per hr. or per mnth? Thanks mate.