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View Full Version : The UK is a peculiar place (merged)


frostbite
12th Apr 2009, 13:23
A chap in Durham has had his claim for compensation for the murder of his son turned down for the second time. (Ceefax)

His son (22) went out to remonstrate with three noisy drunken yobs outside his house and was knifed to death.

Reason for refusal - If he had stayed indoors he would not have died.

Wonderful!

Roger Sofarover
12th Apr 2009, 16:22
Frosty

I saw that on the internet yesterday, It is beyond belief. The lawyers who dashed the claim which was only for 11 000 and would have offered a little security for his children, argued that he had to take some responsibility for the loss of his life in the knife attack:confused::confused::confused: So society and the media say, stand up to the yobs and when you do, then what??

frostbite
12th Apr 2009, 18:01
It's even more disgusting when you consider the people who are awarded more than that for 'hurt feelings'.

heli-cal
12th Apr 2009, 19:42
Having a reality based understanding of how the law operates in such cases, this is not surprising.

The victim will have been seen to have been a willing participant, having left a place of safety (the house) to engage (remonstrate) with three other persons.

It may even be argued (and possibly has) that the victim instigated the attack, as had he remained within the house, no such attack would have taken place.

Having an understanding of how ones actions may be interpreted by those within the Criminal Justice System may prevent well meaning persons from being prosecuted, sued, or worse........

To clarify, I do not agree with the decision to deny this claim, although I do understand why it would be denied.

galaxy flyer
12th Apr 2009, 23:41
As a Yank, who was the father trying to get the compensation from? Not the government, surely. In the US, injuries or death caused by crime is NOT the responsibility of the police i.e. you cannot sue the government for failing to defend you. A very strong argument for the right to arm bears, oops, bear arms.

GF

pzu
13th Apr 2009, 00:00
galaxy flyer

As a Yank, who was the father trying to get the compensation from? Not the government, surely. In the US, injuries or death caused by crime is NOT the responsibility of the police i.e. you cannot sue the government for failing to defend you. A very strong argument for the right to arm bears, oops, bear arms.


Here in the UK we have 'Criminal Injuries Compensation' - idea being that compensation is available to all from the Government

I'm not certain but I think the Govt is then supposed to reclaim from the villains, however somehow the 'lawyers' (who almost certainly dreamed this scheme up as yet another means of lining their pockets) have now stepped in to protect the Taxpayer and deny victims their compensation -SUBJECT to APPEAL of course - and yet more fees!!!

And in the meantime, they will doubtless for a fee be protectecting ther HUMAN RIGHTS of the crims!!!

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

Roger Sofarover
13th Apr 2009, 02:21
gf

as said there is a large pot of money set aside for the victims of crime, however it just seems to go in to the pockets of lawyers rather than victims. The father was not suing, but simply had submitted a claim in accordance with the compensation procedures to try and get some money for his dead sons partner and kids.

airship
13th Apr 2009, 02:49
I would rather have 'British' justice than what passes for justice in any number of other countries. The "3 strikes" law in the USA is a classic example of injustice in a civilised democratic society. The British judicial processes have their short-comings. On the other hand, we have a reasonably functional social security system, so there's universal health-care and those that are hungry get fed and housed if required. Compensation shouldn't be a lotto, nor a jackpot...?!

Roger Sofarover
13th Apr 2009, 03:05
Compensation shouldn't be a lotto, nor a jackpot...?!

Well in the context of the thread subject, what a ridiculous thing to say.

galaxy flyer
13th Apr 2009, 03:11
airship

The "3 strikes" law in the USA is a classic example of injustice in a civilised democratic society.

Injustice? Is it better to have hardened criminals on the street?

GF

ZH875
13th Apr 2009, 11:01
I wish the UK had the Three Strikes rule.

The UK should build ONE more prison, and all prisoners should serve their FULL jail term with NO remission for good behaviour and any additional term should be served CONSECUTIVELY not concurrently.

To prevent visitors passing any illegal contraband to the prisoners, this jail should be built about 35 miles west of Stanley in the Falkland Islands.

Taildragger67
13th Apr 2009, 13:46
GF,

The Second Amendment (http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html) mentions nothing about being allowed to have weapons in the community for defending against crime; rather, it is all about having a "well-regulated Militia" - so if those nasty Brits manage to overthrow the US government (eg. War of 1812), there could be a citizen-level uprising:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As for having "hardened criminals on the street": pot, kettle... ??

AMF
13th Apr 2009, 14:37
Taildragger67 quote;.. GF,
The Second Amendment mentions nothing about being allowed to have weapons in the community for defending against crime; rather, it is all about having a "well-regulated Militia" - so if those nasty Brits manage to overthrow the US government (eg. War of 1812), there could be a citizen-level uprising:

The 2nd Amendment doesn't mention it because doesn't have to; common law at that time, even under colonial Brit rule, and State constitutions predicated on Natural Law already accepted the fact that arms could be kept for the preservation of one's own Life, i.e. self-defence, which would primarily include meeting threats posed by a criminal not only directly to one's own life, but to one's own property since it is used to maintain Life.

Even the most cursory study of why they recognized "the Right of the People to keep and bear arms", will make clear that it's an a timeless a priori fundamental to one's Right to Life in Nature, and not something dependant on "a militia" where the tail wags to dog. The Bill of Rights merely enumerates it. It does not "grant" it.

The fact that a militia and free State are mentioned was also not limited to fighting outside threats, like the Brits you gave in your example. The Founders had risen up against their OWN tyrannical government.

er340790
13th Apr 2009, 17:54
BBC: A Brazilian woman was refused entry to the UK when she arrived at Newcastle Airport with luggage containing only T-shirts, a dressing gown and lingerie. UK Border Agency officials said they suspected the 32-year-old of being involved in the sex industry.

Strange - last two times I transited via Schiphol, I arrived in UK with no clothes at all.

Come on! There must be a N.E. PPRuNer who'll stand up for her...ooerr:O

Mad (Flt) Scientist
13th Apr 2009, 18:05
Sadly, the balance of the story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/7996571.stm) makes it a bit more obvious why she was refused entry ....

qwertyplop
13th Apr 2009, 18:23
.....make us believe that this is a reasonable use of our money?

BBC NEWS | England | Cambridgeshire | Flying checks made on insulation (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/7996753.stm)

1) It's my energy to waste, so what's it got to do with the council?

2) How many people are going to get revised council tax bills based on extensions the council knew nothing of?

3) Why waste energy to apparently save energy.

qwertyplop
13th Apr 2009, 18:27
Re; the Brazilian girl refused entry, as an Immigration Officer, I can report this happens lot's. It's a tawdry and sad business especially, unlike this case it would seem, when they have no idea as to why they've been brought here. Some are told by the crims bringing them in that they have jobs in factories etc, others are bought and sold on arrival. It's a sickening trade that exists under the radar. :(

It's extremely distressing for all concerned, especially if one has to make contact with families back in their country of origin. :sad:

There are some nasty, nasty bastards out there.

ground_star
13th Apr 2009, 18:31
Many years ago, I used to work for "Counciller Wayne Fitzgerald" before he got into politics (& when he ran a radio station in Peterborough) & before I realised that being paid 9 grand a year for working 14 hour days was a bloody joke.

The man is a total arse & thinks that he is alwas right. The "cabinet member for the environment" drives a huge BMW X5, a Mini & A 3 series - now tell me he gives a stuff about "the environment" (a subject which I think is a bandwagon)

That said, this kind of thing is typical of Peterborough City Council & their "Gestapo" ways. I say that we all paint Two-Fingered gestures on our roof to end the Bank Holiday weekend - best DIY job you could do!

Whirlygig
13th Apr 2009, 18:32
If the residents are just being the results (as appears to be the case), then I would consider it useful information. Some people think they have adequate loft insulation but, in fact, it can be far from that. A thermal image could show up that deficiency.

Most councils also give grants for replacing or fitting loft insulation.

Secondly, councils cannot revise anyones council tax bill based on improvements/extension (after all, planning permission was probably obtained so the council would already know about it :rolleyes:) until the national revaluation sometime next year, I believe.

The wasting of energy (i.e. a potentially unnecessary flight) is short term and covers many properties, each of which could save energy over several years.

Cheers

Whirls

Storminnorm
13th Apr 2009, 18:37
Big Brother is Watching you!!! So Behave, alright!!!

I save energy. I don't get up too early.

qwertyplop
13th Apr 2009, 18:40
What I meant to say was that councils will use the evidence gathered to re-classify houses of which they may never have known that changes were made to.

ArthurR
13th Apr 2009, 19:48
Airship you said "those that are hungry get fed and housed if required."
I returned to Yuck Kay in 95, wife had buggered off with a friend, and left me homeless, went to council asked about housing, got told " your a white male over forty, we can't do anything for you, if you can't find private you will have to sleep on the street " I now live in Germany, That what you said only counts for illegals.

belfrybat
13th Apr 2009, 20:56
Strange - last two times I transited via Schiphol, I arrived in UK with no clothes at all.
Now that does sound strange. Care to give some detail?:confused:

reynoldsno1
13th Apr 2009, 22:21
From the stuff.co.nz site:

For example, Britain's giant Tesco supermarket chain is now pressuring one of its New Zealand suppliers, Silver Fern Farms, to phase out sheepdogs.
Its customers, Tesco says, are worried that the dogs are unmannerly when they herd sheep.
What's more, Poms they've sent here to observe our sheep- handling came over all faint when they saw working dogs barking and running about, and definitely detected that the sheep had hurt feelings.
In short, they don't want to buy our lamb and mutton unless they're sure it's been herded to slaughter by pixies and elves with magic wands, which is good news for the fairies, but bad news for our sheep dogs.

frostbite
13th Apr 2009, 22:39
Has this ever occurred to you about Tesco's famous slogan?


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