Float Planes/Flying Boats; why not?

[1000tintoys]

It's my own fault but this is now bugging me, I need to know.

I reported a float plane off ramsgate recently ( info supplied to me in that thread), and in passing asked why there are no sea-based airports. Twitcher has since replied on that site that the owner of the floatplane I and others witnessed is considering stationing his floatplane at Manston ( Kent International Airport) during the summer.

I hope this is true. I now also know float planes are amphibious.

My questions may not be able to be answered here, but:

Why aren't there any sea based airports for these aircraft?
Is it too expensive, difficult?
Are there british laws making it impossible?

Being from Kent and so close to the continent ( if the wind is in the right direction we can smell it; seriously!), I would have thought excursions would be profitable.

Any thoughts, explanations?

[Hyperborean]

This is a big subject and I am not particularly qualified to answer all of your points, other than as an interested observer and ATCO of 40 odd years.
Commercial aviation went land based mostly for economic reasons.
There are sites used for seaplanes in the UK. A commercial service started last year connecting Glasgow with Oban and Mull. They also did ad hoc work onto some of the Scottish Lochs. I'm not sure how this is faring in the current economic climate.
That also answers your question about legislation in UK. In effect the rules are there and are largely analagous to land based airfields
Try googling Loch Lomond Seaplanes.

[1000tintoys]

Thanks H. I saw the site for Loch Lomond. I cannot believe there are only ten float planes based in the UK ( out of 28,000 planes in UK?) and half of them are on that Loch. We are an Island!

I am looking into this to find out why no one wants to do a floatplane/flying boat trip service. It cannot be uneconomical, people spend £30.00 flying a quarter of a mile in a helicopter for a few minutes.

[stepwilk]

As a seaplane-rated commercial pilot, I can tell you that water operations are a lot more difficult than you'd think. A major problem is that smooth water is a requirement. A typical single-engine seaplane can't handle much more than large "ripples," and even big flying boats are surprisingly limited in the kind of water they can handle. Another is that landing on water, you never know what's just under the water--watersoaked flotsam and jetsam of various sorts. Hitting even a small object with a float can be disastrous. And finally, aircraft are largely made of aluminum; seawater and aluminum don't mix. Imagine driving a Ferrari or Turbo Porsche on hugely salted winter roads every day.

[ProM]

With the number of boats around the UK, and with no requirement for any training to handle a private craft, I would imagine there is a significant issue with boats encroaching on any sea airport as well

[deltayankee]

I've tried taking off from water so I understand the problems. Seas in the area are generally too bumpy for floatplane use so the first choice would be a lake. The problem with lakes is that either they are in the middle of nowhere or there are other users in small boats who would either object or obstruct the wet runway. The only European lake based airport I can think of right now is the one on Lake Como in Italy. Floatplanes are most useful in vast wildernesses like Canada or the Pacific where there are plenty of places to put down a plane but not so much crowds to get in the way.


...smooth water is a requirement


But ironically not TOO smooth. When the water is mirrorlike it is harder to judge height on landing and harder to get on the "step" in the takeoff run.

[1000tintoys]

Hovercraft used to have a port at Pegwell Bay near Ramsgate in East Kent. My understanding was that the hovercraft and in general sea planes could operate at a similar level with regards to wave height; up to a meter?

From reading the replies, my understanding seems to be wrong. When Hovercraft left the port, I had hoped that the local council would consider a seaplane operation ( this is going back a couple of decades now).

With regards to sea planes being made of aluminium, I cannot understand why they do not change that if the plane corrodes in sea water. The sea plane manufacturers seem to be shooting themselves in the foot and closing off a substantial amount of potential business, by not using other materials.

With reference to the replies concerning other sea traffic, other than flotsam and jetsam, I would not have thought there would be any problem in a designated area for a sea port. Buoys and signage could be used. It isn't as if there would be aircraft coming in more than a couple of times an hour at most, depending on tourist, business and commuting opportunities?

[L'aviateur]

I've seen quite a lot of Cessna 208 Seaplane Ops in varying conditions. Despite being quite sensitive to conditions, they seem to do pretty well. For insurance I believe a minimum of 1000 hours seaplane + 1000 hours hours turbine was a requirement (not certain, so don't quote me).

Occasionally it's possible to get permission for takeoff/landing inside a harbour.

I think here in Hamburg the seaplane tours depart from within the River Elbe, but again i'm not certain.

[user_name]

Commercial float plane ops are not all that unusual. In Malta, the only way to fly between the two main islands is by floatplane since the helicopter service closed down. The service operates from the Grand Harbour in Valletta which is very busy with shipping traffic but gives fairly calm water conditions- but it seems to work just fine. Check out their website:

Harbour Air Malta (http://www.harbourairmalta.com/harbourair/home.aspx)

[L'aviateur]

Adding to my last post, having done a bit of research it seems that most of the commercial seaplane ops take place within harbour walls or inland waterways. I completely forgot about Alaska where I would imagine there are the most commercial seaplane operations of anyway, absolutely amazing to see them coming in seemingly continously (although a slightly biased view from the Bridge of a Cruise Ship bringing in 3000 willing customers!).

[1000tintoys]

Hallo all.

I took a short cut to find out what it would take regarding legally flying and landing a float/boat/amphibious plane along the shores and at sea. I contacted my MP who contacted the House of Commons library who sent me this answer (edited). I expect 90% of you will know this, but for those of us who don't....

HoC Library response:

Yes a seaplane can land off the UK coast, providing they meet certain requirements. Essentially, any aircraft planning a flight in UK airspace must register their flight plan with NATS and they must be able to prove, to the satisfaction of the CAA, that they have undertaken all necessary precautions in determining their route and take off and landing sites, ( this will usually be by completing Part C of their Operations Manual). This holds true for all aircraft - whether on land on water.

Similarly, all aircraft - whether on land or water - must use a licensed aerodrome for take off and landing. However, there are exemptions for this, the one which is most likely to be relevant for seaplanes is that craft weighing less than 5.7 tonnes do not need to use a licensed aerodrome, this would cover pretty much all of the smaller tourist-type seaplanes currently in use. The CAA also grants exemptions for the use of unlicensed aerodromes where there is a need ( e.g. Oban Bay in Scotland).

Seaplanes also have to meet the requirements of marine aircraft as well as aircraft. What this means, in practice, is that they would require permission from the relevant harbour authority which owns the water on which they are taking off or landing and they will need to ensure the coastguard or the relevant search and rescue authority has been informed of their plans. As part of their completion of Part C of the Ops Manual ( see above), they will need to prove to the satisfaction of the CAA that they have undertaken all necessary investigation as to wildlife, wrecks etc at their landing and take off sites.

Those are the basic requirements. There are not many companies that operate seaplanes on the sea, it is much more common for them to use lochs or lakes with river access
( e.g. Loch Lomond Seaplanes (http://www.lochlomondseaplanes.com/) ). As I am sure you can imagine, this is because of the problems caused by waves. I understand that those seaplanes currently in manufacture are very limited by their wave height capability and can usually only cope with waves of approximately one foot, so you can see that they would have to be very careful in choosing their sites and would find it difficult to operate during the winter when seas were rougher.

As to the potential for growth in this market, visit;
Seaplanes take the high road to profit - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/startingout/2789157/Seaplanes-take-the-high-road-to-profit.html)

and also regarding expansion in North Wales and South East England, visit;

Seaplanes to fly once more - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549320/Seaplanes-to-fly-once-more.html)

The HoC Library saved me a month of sundays including all the days in between if I had tried to research this, so thanks to them. :ok:

So, who is going to be the first to set up business in East Kent?:hmm: