Qantas to sell 2 747-400s this year

[dragon man]

OJF and OJK both to be sold this year. Announcment on Tuesday re more flying cuts. Lost money in the last quarter.Not good news.

[Jabawocky]

Well they are both almost 20 years old and on average QF do more flying per year than most on their 747's so they are most likely beyond their use by date from a financial point of view.

I can see the add now.....VH-OJK for Sale, 19 years of tender loving care by QF Engineering, a lot of k's on the clock but runs well. Pride of the fleet and preferred on Sundays as it has been a bit Holy :eek:!

J:E

[Nunc]

Whats the bet they are leased back down the track when things pick up- oh of course the 787 will be here.:ugh:

[Shazz-zaam]

With the economic downturn are there any buyers out there?
As Jabawocky pointed out they are almost 20 years old.
Might look better parked at the museum at Longreach.:ok:

[lowerlobe]

Unfortunately...it's a buyers market at the moment for a lot of things not just aircraft...

Unless you could find someone willing to convert them into freighters I think it will be hard to shift them for any decent money....

Remember the old days when QF aircraft sold at a premium because of their maintenance record :oh:

[kotoyebe]

Announcement on Tuesday re more flying cuts.

ie more routes given to JQ - the savior of Qantas and the best run, efficient and highest yielding airline model ever. I thought I'd get in before genex and jjw:)

[Skystar320]

They still have not sold the B747-300's....

It would be a hard sell to sell them when you have younger, more modern, young, better interior aircraft on the market.

The market is already got a glut of both 747-400 pax & freighter aircraft.

Good luck Qantas!

[Fruet Mich]

AirNZ just had one of their 400's for sale for 10M, probably a litttle younger than those of QF. Couldn't get a buyer so they have scrapped it for parts.

[Skystar320]

Very much doubtful for US$10million!!!!! Thats bloody cheap, yet

[Shazz-zaam]

Maybe we could gift one to Borghetti instead of his golden handshake.

It would look brilliant on his driveway.

[Hardworker]

One owner - outsource maintenance, has minor repair damage from oxygen bottle blowout after of cargo door cutout R/H, identified by the massive wiring splices in the area - new forward pressure bulkhead very low cycles, due minor impact with another aircraft ...yeah I can see everyone lining up to buy it...

[Angle of Attack]

If I won powerball jackpot or something like that I would buy it and fly it around VFR, coastal at 500ft etc, until my money ran out. Which wouldnt take long to do at around 8 tonnes an hour burn at low weight! :)

[Ixixly]

AoA, be sure to sell tickets cheap, not really to make money just to keep it flying coastal 500ft VFR for a bit longer!! I'll be first in line for one of those tickets :D Hell, i'll even give you a hand flying if you want!!

No real experience on something bigger than a duchy, but i'll give it a darned good go! :}

[c100driver]

If they are roller powered 747 then that is a good price. Scrap rates for a 744 is about 8 mil.

Only for operators of RR B744 QF, CX, BA and NZ ? Any one know anyone else with RR B744

[psycho joe]

So is the rumour true that QANTAS are having to pay cash for fuel. :E

[Wod]

I'll bite on a couple of things


Lost money in the last quarter.



I think it's traditionally the weakest quarter anyway, certainly on longhaul, so unhelpful but not awful, if true.



I would buy it and fly it around VFR, coastal at 500ft


I had the good fortune, in the early days of Antarctic charters, to score a staff trip. Low level over water (and ice floes ) past Mawson's Hut. A sublime and serene experience.

[walaper]

Surely on the books these A/C must of been written many years ago and hence anything they get for them is profit.

[Massey058]

I believe Air New Zealand 747-400 ZK-NBS is on the market for US$10 million. I think it was coming up for engine replacement and a major check so that figure is probably not out of the ballpark for the Qantas ones.

[C441]

AAhhhh bugger! Another two steps closer to the 380....:{

[Cool banana]

c100driver
SAA and Cargolux are RR 744 powered operators too.

[moa999]

Why OJF and OJK ?
They have both been recently upgraded to Prem Y.

I would have thought the older OJA - OJE, still yet to be upgraded and with the old fabrics would be first to go?

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Now listen carefully, for I will say this only once...

The $10,000,000 per unit is spot-on. They're being bought by Jetstar! True.

We get $1,000,000 per calendar month PROFIT from mainline (ie over-and-above the difference between whatever the clunkers cost to run and what few shekels we get from the punters) - guaranteed - to operate them on current mainline routes (well...I should be more accurate and say route - singular - because we're starting with Argentina). That way we show a profit, we get more aircraft, we show even more profit, then we get them all!

Right!

Now that I've jumped in ahead of the other cynics who might really believe this nonsense, I hope none of them bother posting.

Hopefully it gave one or two readers a laugh - it was meant to be read in a light-hearted way.

But Buenos Aires would be a nice place to fly and I'm envious. Enjoy it boys and girls...:ok:

[600ft-lb]

I heard that 2 of the oldest 767s are due to be sold. We shall find out on Tuesday, along with who has lost their job.

[MrWooby]

Don't think anyone (pilots) will be losing their job just yet. Assigned leave has just started with lower divisors, assigning long service leave occurred in the past, not ideal but better than losing your job. I am sure that there would be quite FEW new Qantas pilots who would love a few years leave without pay to go back to the RAAF and fly real aircraft for a while again. And maybe a few of those over 60's sitting on a few million super (although slightly less now) might decide to give the younger members a bit of a break and retire gracefully.

[Autobrakes4]

"And maybe a few of those over 60's sitting on a few million super (although slightly less now) might decide to give the younger members a bit of a break and retire gracefully".

Yeah right, like that's going to happen. These guys will go for ever and ever as they probably don't have much of a life outside flying. As if they will all of a sudden get a touch of the guilts and decide to give the young ones a go.

[Wod]

Why OJF and OJK ?
They have both been recently upgraded to Prem Y.



I have no knowledge, but happy to speculate that two other considerations come into play

A) How many hours to Major maintenance visit - lotsa dollars to be saved there.

B) Nature of ownership, QF own some airframes and have a variety of differing lease types on others. Again major bikkies related to the timing of disposal.

Given my track record, I've likely missed the true reason.:{

[Short_Circuit]

OJF & OJG are the oldest airframe by flt hrs and it makes sense to dispose of these,
OJK & OJH have a few bumps and bruises so its disposal is a given.
The next decision is which ones are due soon for D checks?

[UP D Date]

The only QF 744 for sale on the Boeing website is OJR - trace the S/N.

[mingalababya]

Wasn't OJK the one involved in the depressurization incident between Hong Kong and Manila last year?

[Jabawocky]

Freighters hey..........people like their freight to turn up on time reliably too you know!:}

[Skystar320]

One of the earlier B767-300ER are up for sale aswell.... Flipping high timed!

[Vindiesel]

Well I've been told that 2 744's (OJF&K?) have officially just been sold to Garuda. Not sure of their exact date of removal from QF service.

[Upper Deck]

mingalababya

Yes VH-OJK is the one involved in the depressurization incident last year. :eek: OJH was the one that ran of the runway in Bankok. Pilots just wanted to get some golf practice in :D

[stubby jumbo]

What An Hilarious Post

Oh So Original

Benny Hill........eat Your Heart Out

[Capt Fathom]

So .....

OJK & OJF have supposedly been sold!

The relevance of OJH is ...... ??

[PigsArse]

They are both bent !!!!!

[blow.n.gasket]

Give that man a job as CEO!:}

[ampclamp]

From one who should know (not me, I'm a nobody) OGA and OGB to go.
That can all change of course.

[Skystar320]

Garuda is getting rid of their B744's, why would they need ex QF aircraft?

[blow.n.gasket]

Because the staples Qantas use are better!:}

Seriously though,for the price they are getting them at, do the Hajj and then do a greek renovation and burn them .:ok:

[Avid Aviator]

I don't have any inside info on the current sale progress, but do know a few things:

$10M for a fully serviceable B744 is rubbish. The 747-300s topped that when traded for coke cans without instruments/engines/interiors etc. Check out the websites for grounded/damaged/no-engined B747s and you'll work it out...

The B743s have all been sold, delivered and (I hope for QFs sake), paid for. That post is a furphy, A320.

Boeing will now provide an STC for B744 pax to freighter config; given the number of classic freighters still flying and the status of the 748 program, I'd say these aircraft are still very much potentially saleable.

Surely on the books these A/C must of been written many years agoOne of the main problems with Qantas accounting is their depreciation procedures. There is a lot of plant more than 20 years old still excessively valued. Eg. OJH insured at $100M when it pranged and repaired at a cost of ~$150M - a result of dodgy finanicial control (notwithstanding hull-loss implications).

[Skystar320]

I'd say these aircraft are still very much potentially saleable.


There a waaaaaaay better a.c on the market atm... But US$10million, I agree is rubbish.

The B743s have all been sold, delivered and

Why are they still being advertised????

[c100driver]

If there are no buyers then they are worthless!

A friend who is in the jet trading buisness told me that B744 with GE engines are still selling for conversions but at lower prices and much slower rate than 2 years ago, but a B744 with RR engines are not really marketable for conversion as world wide support is not good compared to GE or Pratt, and the RR machines are heavy compared to a GE machine.

He could be correct about that as in a former life I remember QF, NZ, BA and CX had to have an engine pool agreement for a spare engine sitting in LAX.

The QF GE powered B767-300 will probably sell well, though would being the lightweight version reduce the conversion potential?

[Keg]

Avid, what a load of crap:

Eg. OJH insured at $100M when it pranged and repaired at a cost of ~$150M - a result of dodgy finanicial control (notwithstanding hull-loss implications).

Given how inaccurate this statement is I'm not sure we can trust much else of what you say. The aircraft was insured for well north of $100mill. The aircraft was repaired for less than $100 mill- just over $90mill. :rolleyes:

[regitaekilthgiwt]

QF GE powered B767-300 will probably sell well, though would being the lightweight version reduce the conversion potential

If it is OGA and OGB, they are heavy weight versions when required.

[Joker 10]

A fundamental truth," Price is what the market will bear".

[alangirvan]

747-400s painted up as Jetstar? Surely not, but back in 81/82 when Qantas has a whole lot of early model 747 parked up against the fence they did something radical - they put them back into service and operated them! At the time they figured, the planes were totally depreciated, the staff were there, so all Qantas had to pay for was the fuel. 82 was the year when fuel prices started to ease after a nasty couple of years.

So, whether the older planes are painted as Qantas or as Jetstar, why not operate them? A 747-400 with about 500 seats would be an ideal way to take lots of happy smiling faces to Bali or Hawaii. Australian Domestic Transcons. If the Qantas Group does want to get back into Southern Europe, arguably, a depreciated 747-400 would give them cheaper seats than a brand new 787 straight out of the factory, even operated by Jetstar.

Are the old planes letting them down? Do they get four good starts from the engines each time? Do they chew through the spare parts? They could still have a few more years of happy flying.

[Going Boeing]

Alan, yes the aircraft are in good condition now. Since the reduction in flying hours, the ginger beers have now got the time to service them so that we are generally presented with aircraft that have no MEL's & few hold items. The engines are in good condition as evidenced by the low fuel flow correction figures and they all fly straight (including OJH/K despite what some misinformed Prooners post).

[Cool banana]

QF GE powered B767-300 will probably sell well, though would being the lightweight version reduce the conversion potential

All QF GE 767-300 are heavy weights. I think QF only payed for only 5 to be operating at max weigh at any one time. When they did operate the placard at the back of the cockpit door was changed to max weight and a hold item in the tech log to say it was a max weight a/c.

[WX-T]

Cool Bananas wrote;All QF GE 767-300 are heavy weights. I think QF only payed for only 5 to be operating at max weigh at any one time. When they did operate the placard at the back of the cockpit door was changed to max weight and a hold item in the tech log to say it was a max weight a/c.

OGP,Q,R,S,T,and U operated at 185,065kg MTOW all the time. OGA,B and C only operate at 185,065kg MTOW when the placard shows that weight. No tech log entry required.

[Going Boeing]

Cool Banana is correct in that all the GE powered B763's are HGW capable providing the extra money is paid to Boeing - there are no structural differences between the aircraft.

VH-OGA/B/C were the first aircraft to get the higher weight capability because it was cheaper on older aircraft (Boeing discounts it by 5% for each year that the aircraft has been in service). From memory, I believe that the formula was US$55 per pound increase per aircraft minus 5% per year of service. As the weight increase for each aircraft was approximately 13 tonnes, it is clear that it is not cheap and thus is only paid if that extra capability can be used to increase revenue