View Full Version : "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"
driftwood
21st Jan 2002, 11:51
If the past is a guide to the future, then Easyjet is just the beginning of a Greek invasion. Cast your mind back to the movement of pax by ship: the likes of Ari. Onassis and his chums had the industry sewn up, particularly in the Med. The near future could bring us:-. . Virginitis. . Monarchos. . Britanis. . Ryanis. . Roll off the tongue nicely don't they, but beware, like Olympic, Greek ships are captained by Greeks and staffed with Caribbeans. Watch it.
wallywombat
21st Jan 2002, 13:02
I work for that particular Greek gentleman you mentioned. What's your point? I have nothing but praise for the way he has steered easyJet to the position it is today, and pilots/cabin crews and passengers have benefited alike.
Hold at Saffa
21st Jan 2002, 15:58
Having travelled with ouzo-breath, I'd say caveat emptor is more appropriate!
Rapid expansion=rapid failure.
Lou Scannon
21st Jan 2002, 18:11
Driftwood: Why leave "Grecian 2000" off your list?
Any fool can borrow lots of money in times of low interest rates, make the books look good and sell off shares at enourmous profit.
He is expanding way too quickly.
Mark my words a fall is coming.
I am amazed that more don't see it.
nice_beaver
21st Jan 2002, 20:36
Here we go again, another thread attempting to knock easyJet and its success to date. I'm suprised that it has survived so long in the rumours and news forum as it is quite clearly neither and should be moved to the "aimless ramblings by people with nothing better to do or have an axe to grind" forum.
How about some positive press for the guy who now employs almost 400 pilots.....
Barcli
21st Jan 2002, 21:09
I am with fmgc on this one.....
Mad Max
21st Jan 2002, 21:39
Yet another pointless thread trying to knock eJ and the other low cost airlines.
Driftwood, Barcli and fmgc all it appears with their own agenda. When will you guys get the message? The old ways of ripping off Joe Public with ridculously high priced fares is gone - FOREVER!!
They, (the great unwashed) won't stand for it when they have a choice - and now increasingly they do have a choice on all sorts of routes that they could only dream of until the LCAs came on the scene.
So whether it's jealousy, xenophobia, fear of your own airline going down the tubes or whatever - now's your chance to pitch in here with all that cheap and sleazy rubbish.
Hey Augustus! Come on down this one's for you matey - but get this, unless you can back up your paranoid xenophobia and barbed tacky jibes with facts and reasoned argument then you're on a loser.
Mind you, let's face it when you've lost all your passengers, what else have you got to lose - so you may as well cash in your self respect too eh?!
Cheers, Max <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Lou Scannon
21st Jan 2002, 22:02
Stelios and his imitators are the way things are going to go for the next ten to fifteen years in our business. The public will get low fares and will learn to accept minimum service. This will spread to the charters and either BA will follow the lead or they will have to close down all their short-haul operation.
Pilot salaries will remain in the same charter bracket that they are at present as without decent salaries people won't bother to pay for the training. There is no requirement for senior cabin crew to earn five times the charter rate however as they can be easily replaced.
Those companies that survive will be around to offer upgraded service when the public's mood next changes. Unless BA cut back now they won't be around to see this.
Before someone jumps down my throat, I don't relish this "sea change" but I do acknowledge that it is happening.
Flintstone
21st Jan 2002, 22:13
driftwood
I think I'd rather see the companies renamed as you suggest than O'Virgin, O'Monarch, O'Britannia etc
driftwood
21st Jan 2002, 23:01
I'm not knocking Easyjet. I admire Stelios and aim to invest in his company. What I wished to imply was that wealthy Greek families do tend to follow the leader with their money. The shipping magnates were a very successful example/
broadreach
21st Jan 2002, 23:17
You make an interesting point Driftwood but I don't know if the parallel is all that apt. The Greek shipping industry was built on the back of cheap post-war tonnage that combined very nicely with expanding world trade, a nation of very switched-on traders who also had plenty of ship-operating experience and finally government regulating bodies that saw the shipowners' interests as parallel to their own, i.e. a way to earn foreign currency. Onassis, Niarchos, Livanos and a few others were the cream of that trading crop.
Do you know where many of them gravitated to? You guessed, it: London, because that's where the trading centres are. Ergo the shipping term "London Greeks". Many of the Norwegian shipowners also gravitated to London and you'll find more than a few American-owned shipping companies headquartered there.
It's a different world today what with EU and all that. What the Greeks - and a number of others - still have, though, is an extraordinary trading knack for sussing out the future - call it gut feeling if you will. That's not to say EasyJet have a better crystal ball than anyone else. But their timing and accomplishmente so far speak for themselves, don't they?
broadreach
Gypsy
22nd Jan 2002, 01:58
As has been said - here we go again. The usual load of old tosh.
Fmcg and all other doubters - it doesn't always have to be the same.
Where is Augustus Nutwinkle then?
Incidently, how can keeping salaries in the charter bracket be a problem - eJ pilots get more than those at Virgin and BA EOG (so my friends at BA EOG tell me)?
Its so british to knock a success story isn't it!
Few Cloudy
22nd Jan 2002, 03:03
Yes Gypsy, and British to knock foreigners too.
Wake UP guys, 'tis the wave of the future, like it or not (and many WILL not)....tough beans. Management call the shots now...and for a long time to come. "Flight crew" are a dime a dozen now...the stack of CV's on Chief Pilot's desks are now at an all time high. Too bad for "trouble-makers".. .The situation will NOT change for an extended period, if at all.. .Anyone disagree? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
[ 22 January 2002: Message edited by: 411A ]</p>
Interesting point, soddit!though . ....the tag Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes which you recall is usually, and somewhat inaccurately translated as Beware of Greeks bearing gifts. The point is, soddit, that what you describe as a Greek tag is in fact Latin. It's obvious really, the Greeks would never suggest bewaring of themselves if one used such a participle, bewaring that is, and it is clearly Latin, not because Timeo ends in 'o', because the Greek first person also ends in 'o'. Though actually, there is a Greek word called Timao meaning I honour. But the 'os' ending is a nominative singular termination of the second declension in Greek, and an accusative plural in Latin off course, though actually Danaos is not only the Greek for Greek but also the Latin for Greek, it is very interesting really!
Christ, was that not a scene in the Life of Brian?
I agree with most of you that "Low Cost, No Frills" is the way of the future. I am not knocking that and I have no problem with it. I am not even in a competing market, and fly low cost as a pax a lot.
My concern is with eJ in particular.
When interest rates go up overheads go up and passenger numbers go down. That is a fact.
What is in question is how much money has Stelios borrowed to fund this amazingly rapid expansion?
He may be able to pay his debts whilst interest rates are low but if they go up...............? Pity the poor sods who bought shares!
It would be tragic if eJ were to go down, bearing in mind the amount of people employed by them.
Whilst on the subject when eJ first launched, one of the big "Sales Points" was the fact that they operated from small regional airports allowing cheap fares and quick turn arounds. How does LGW fit into this. Surely he is not going to try to turn them around in 20 mins there?
Whilst on the subject:
I do wish that Stelios would stop crying foul and trying to be seen as the Champion of the Flying Public.
It would seem that he would love to see GO, BA, BMI and many others go bust. How about a bit of compassion for the people that they employ.
Stelios, please accept the fact that there is space for all of us, maybe the sizes will vary due to natural business selection, but there is space. Get on and run your business and allow others to do the same. Compete on prices and services, not politics.
Of course Barclays are going to charge alot for their Services at LTN as they have taken a BIG risk in pumping money into the airport, it is not a safe business.
Why should you not pay the same pax handling charges as other users of the airport? They have not put their charges up, your introductory discount finished.
dwlpl
28th Jan 2002, 18:10
exorangebird
The easyJet share price did fall to £2.25, at 13.30 today they are priced at £4.99. Not a bad recovery!!!
You said "plans to open more bases", please tell where they ARE to be?
Few Cloudy
31st Jan 2002, 22:48
GLA, EDI, BEL, LGW for starters - ORY maybe AMS later.
Also lots of candid financial data in the folder accompanying your shares - including lots of things which could go wrong. Very refreshing after Swissair's Enron type misleading Bull.
Are you sure that eJ are buying 75 more a/c or is this just another clever ploy by Stelios. I think that you will find that he has not ordered them yet, just that he is THINKING about it.
SELL YOUR SHARES NOW before the markets realise what is going on.
[ 01 February 2002: Message edited by: fmgc ]</p>
Few Cloudy
1st Feb 2002, 14:13
fmgc,
The 48 aircraft by the end of 2004 is a done deal. The further big expansion after that is still at the planning stage. Various types of aircraft are being considered. The share price hasn't changed too much since this latter announcement, so I wouldn't be too worried about the price - or are you trying to get it down before you purchase?
nice_beaver
1st Feb 2002, 23:45
fmcg,
finished today at an all time high 5.35 ish !
Why not leave the financial musing to the blokes who are paid to do just that.
Bad news for the Stelios/easyJet knockers.
Stelios is to give up his interest in the family Stelmar shipping tanker business. This will leave him free to use all his time further building on easyJets success.
criticalmass
2nd Feb 2002, 15:02
SK,
It is indeed a Latin tag but I think it actually goes "Timeo Danaii donati ferenti". I'll drag out the episode of "Yes Minister" and check because, although my Latin is now 35 years old (and suffering advanced corrosion), the grammar in your quote seems a little anomalous.
On the other hand, my recollection of Latin might be totally wrong...and I am the first to admit that possibility.
Exactly my point, sell them now.