V Australia commenced BNE-LAX today

[tourismman]

Howdy anyone know loadings out of YBBN ,i hope they do well.

Cheers.:ok:

[puff]

They are giving 2 x daily tickets on one of the radio stations every day currently! Be interesting because apparently QF currently occasionally cancel their BNE-LAX and send the pax to SYD due to poor loads.

[Richard Kranium]

Hopefully QF will cancel all their flights BNE-LAX, and let "V" take up the reins,
I've had a gutfull of the whining from QF over the years and how hard they are done by, may "V" live long and prosper.:)

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

I seem to remember VB management sprouting how hard they were done by too.

[Richard Kranium]

Yeah maybe, but after Ansett collapsed they both got the free kick of a life time like no other.:sad:

[Mikeb744]

QF currently occasionally cancel their BNE-LAX and send the pax to SYD due to poor loads.QF have nevered cancelled the flight, It use to not operate on Tuesdays or Thursday due to PLANNED maintenance probably 6 months.

You need to get some facts instead of making comments like this.

[tourismman]

Then mayby Qantas should not advertise they have a daily flight then ???

I believe V Oz are 90-95% loads out of here.

[Transition Layer]

90-95% is pretty good...for the first flight :rolleyes:

[inandout]

As BNE is VAs home TOWN it should spark with locals more so than SYD, or MEL will.

[Red Jet]

ehh, actually Sydney is VA's home town. Know what you mean though and I think you're right. Rednecks love flying red airplanes!!

[Pole Vaulter]

Mikeb744

It is you who needs to get YOUR facts straight. On a number of occasions QF have cancelled BNE LAX flights due to only having approx 70 pax booked. Also they operate 6 days a week BNE LAX not 2 as ststed. That was about 18 months ago.

[Sunstar320]

I believe V Oz are 90-95% loads out of here.
I would also love to believe that they were like this :eek:

Unless you give us more details about where heard the loads from, I aint going with those facts, Sydney is getting 45%-Brisbane double now:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[Mach2.7]

I really wish them well. But the fact that they are offering BNE-LAX-BNE for A$777 for the balance of April (not all flights of course) indicates how tough the market conditions are.

[kotoyebe]

It is you who needs to get YOUR facts straight. On a number of occasions QF have cancelled BNE LAX flights due to only having approx 70 pax booked.

Since you have the inside information on QF loads, then tell us all what the loads were on the LAX BNE sectors of those cancelled BNE LAX flights with only 70 pax, and what they did with them?

[hoboe]

I really wish them well. But the fact that they are offering BNE-LAX-BNE for A$777 for the balance of April (not all flights of course) indicates how tough the market conditions are.



And it is going to get a whole lot tougher in July...

Delta Strengthens Los Angeles Gateway with New Nonstop Flights to Sydney, Sao Paulo, Increased Service to New York:Delta Newsroom (http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11199)

[wingnut69]

The outbound loads from OZ seem to be doing pretty well, in QF's case. The inbound however....:confused:

[inandout]

Delta is now VAs interline to all it's network especially NY for Australians.

[Pole Vaulter]

kotoyebe

It was a simple solution for QF. Send them to SYD and onto a SYD LAX flight. The return is the same solution LAX SYD BNE. With 3 flights a day ex LAX to SYD it is just the sensible thing to do. Why burn over 100 tons of fuel for 70 pax.

[Red Jet]

Hoboe and all, FYI - the DELTA press release announcing Delta's intention to fly to Sydney is dated in December 2008. So it's hardly NEWS, but more importantly - published well before the interline agreement between VA and Delta was announced. Delta is now oncarrying pax for VA and there will be 2 daily VA flights between SYD & LAX, its just that one of them will say Delta on the outside of the aircraft (& the FA's may be on average a few years older and lack the Virgin flair;-)) I reckon Qantas are soon gonna wish that Singapore Airlines got the route rather than the Branson flying circus...

[Mstr Caution]

Consolidating flights due lack of capacity perhaps.

Disruptions last year on the QF 744 as a result of:

a. QF enginerring industrial dispute.
b. Aircraft in Manila with the oxy bottle incident.
c. Aircraft in Avalon after the towing incident.

I stand to be corrected, but cancelling or consolidating services due the above perhaps, but as to low pax loads? When did such ocurr?

[Mikeb744]

Mikeb744

It is you who needs to get YOUR facts straight. On a number of occasions QF have cancelled BNE LAX flights due to only having approx 70 pax booked. Also they operate 6 days a week BNE LAX not 2 as ststed. That was about 18 months ago

Well i work for that Airline at that Airport handling that flight and i have never know it to be cancelled for "Low Bookings".
So i have my facts, do u have yours ;)

[aus01]

I was told today a “celebrity” on the first BNE-LAX flight was placed in handcuffs on arrival at LAX??? An in-flight bar issue/intoxication. Anyone??? Bet Bret and PR want to keep that one quiet if it’s true!:O

[ANstar]

\2 daily VA flights between SYD & LAX, its just that one of them will say Delta on the outside of the aircraft

Not to rain on parades, but Qantas also have an interline agreement with Delta. It is NOT a codeshare.

Anyway - apart from the yanks (ie UA) - who would really want to fly Delta over VA or QF?

[Red Jet]

I agree that the importance of the Delta / VA link-up is not instantly apparent, but:
1. There are 300 mill. Yanks and only 20 mill. Aussies
2. Most Americans prefer to travel on their own carriers, irrespective of the superior service on the foreign carrier (apple pie, star-spangled banner and all that)
3. After the NWA merger, Delta is now the worlds biggest carrier in passenger numbers and a lot of those heading our way will now be moved onto the VA flight, whether they deliberatly sought out the "Virgin experience", or not. The yield this will provide, may just make the difference whether they can/are able to ride out the soft markets over the next year or two.

If I was doubtful (and yes I was) before, whether VA could succesfully launch in the bear-market we're in, the Delta deal has changed my mind on the matter. VA has the bees-knees of longhaul airplane, the lowest costbase (by a considerable margin) of any international carrier able to fly the pacific route, and in the Delta link-up - a formiderable partner that surely will have QA/AA sit up and take notice. It's a horrible time to launch a new airline, but the markets WILL improve eventually and VA will emerge a force to be reckoned with.

[ditch handle]

How long will it take for the market to recover.........?

[Richard Kranium]

Well notwithsanding all of the above, but I can see a stack load of Delta passengers having seamless connection and travel around Australia on Virgin Blue, this is got to be a huge benefit for VB.

Same goes for V, their passengers can connect in the States on Delta/NWA's vast American network, not to mention Virgin America who will benefit as well, seems to me like a win win for the parties involved.:)

[Kangaroo Court]

Yep, I totally agree. When you can book connecting flights, baggage handling, frequent flyer points and even terminal usage, you're backing a winner.

VAustralia will be a success because they have new equipment, a youthful exuberance to performing well and a curious public looking for a good deal.

The Australian media have not been kind to the "rat" lately either!

[W00kiee]

I was told today a “celebrity” on the first BNE-LAX flight was placed in handcuffs on arrival at LAX??? An in-flight bar issue/intoxication. Anyone??? Bet Bret and PR want to keep that one quiet if it’s true!


Total and utter crap....:ugh:

[the rim]

whats your problem... are you a disgrunted ex AN worker or just dont you like qantas..... maybe they would not give you a job...did you hear that V aus wanted to park their a/c next to qantas 744 [the one going to lax] and if they got away first they were going to use it as media stunt....bac would not let them they had to park at the other end of the airport....oh and they did not get away first

[puff]

From what I heard Mike Goldman (ex Big brother) was on the flight and was arrested by the local LAPD later in the evening after being ejected from a club. If thats who you talking about, calling him a 'celebrity' is a slight stretch!!

[star gold]

ANstar Quote:
Not to rain on parades, but Qantas also have an interline agreement with Delta. It is NOT a codeshare.

Anyway - apart from the yanks (ie UA) - who would really want to fly Delta over VA or QF?
Delta is a Singapore Airlines FF partner airline so depending on intended destinations it could be better for a Krisflyer FF to travel with Delta than United. I have done it myself from Europe and would do so from Aust if the flights suited.

Having said that I don't know how big the KF FF market would be for that.

[Richard Kranium]

Wow, aka Dhead, well there is just no fooling you is there "rim", I didn't think anyone could ever solve this clever disguise, just goes so show, this is the proof needed, you are the sharpest tool in the shed.:eek:

[the rim]

well it just gives me the sh$%'s that every time we start talking about airlines someone says that ....mine is better than your's and we started it first ....etc etc we all have a common enemy why not see if WE can stick together [like the alaea did in the pia] and defeat the management that has no idear of how to run an airline ...if its not in their mangement manual they have not got a glue what to do as most of them have no cold face experience

[Mikeb744]

did you hear that V aus wanted to park their a/c next to qantas 744 [the one going to lax] and if they got away first they were going to use it as media stunt....bac would not let them they had to park at the other end of the airport....oh and they did not get away first

Some of you guys talk / believe absolute crap!
BAC Decide Gate allocations, Not V, not QF.
It is based on A/C Size, Arrival Times / Dept and alot of other variables.

Plus QF dont need to partcipate in the childish games Virgin plan. Avaition isnt a game, you are dealing with real peoples lives.

[the rim]

mikeb744 i think you need to do a little more digging ....gates are allocated on how much you are willing to pay....look at emerates own areobridge to their lounge bac operate only for money and look where some airline park each day ....right in the middle so their punters dont have to walk very far

[coaldemon]

I'll have to look in the aerobridge for the Eftpos machine that they all use. :cool:

[ANstar]

Yep, I totally agree. When you can book connecting flights, baggage handling, frequent flyer points and even terminal usage, you're backing a winner.

Unfortunately VA have not got a frequent flyer partnership with Delta not Delta with V Aus.

[Mr. Hat]

What has the inflight food/rest/recreation been like. And the hotels/transport/allowances ect? And rosters? Do you have to pay for drinks? Are oyu offered left over first class or equivalent meals?

Just curious. I'm not into slanging matches ect - wish you well.

[AN Flyer]

Some of you guys talk / believe absolute crap!
BAC Decide Gate allocations, Not V, not QF.

Mikeb744 - Agreed.

Not sure on the "pushback competition with QF" on inaugural day (seems stupid that anyone would try that on their first flight given the media coverage and photo shoots by the plane etc.

My understanding is that V-Aus will primarily be using the "Emirates" (lack of a better word) gate in YBBN? (Far end gate towards domestic). Perhaps V are using the Emirates lounge for their J class pax just as they're using the Malaysia lounge in SYD and Alaska Lounge at LAX? Seems reasonable to park their heavy there for this purpose?

[somewhereat1l]

Mr Hat. What do you mean by paying for drinks? PAX pay for alcohol after they have had their first one free of charge. Although from what I have seen the crew are just giving away 2nd and 3rd drinks because of the extra work involved in charging for extra drinks. All soft drink etc is inclusive. Of course the crew can drinks soft drinks/juices and take a bottle of water off for the hotel.

Hotel is really nice although not in the best location. A fantastic crew room is provided with internet, TV, DVD player, coffee machine and a couple of fridges that the hotel stock up with soft drinks for us.

Current time at hotel is around 50 hours but there is a rumour this might be reduced to a single night in LA. If this happens the feedback from crew I have spoken with is that they will be exhausted and will have to reconsider if they want to stay at V.

No problems with transport to from airport as far as I know and the hotel provide a complimentary shuttle for the crew to various tourist spots.

Onboard food is not too great. We are provided with an economy meal for dinner and breakfast and although the economy food is good it is still an economy (high salt/fat/sugar) meal. Our business class service is on demand so its difficult to judge what is going to be left over for crew to eat (if anything) because a pax might wake up and want lamb shanks with wasabi mash potato at any point during the flight. So to sum up there is plenty of food for crew but not enough healthy stuff.

All pretty good so far. Still teething problems but we are only a month old. Feedback from pax has been very good.

[Sand dune Sam]

Where are our experts giving their expert opinions on how V is doomed? This thread has far too many positive posts........

[MrWooby]

Poor darlings exhausted if less than 50 hours slip, more like "if I can't shop and party for 50 hours then I'll have a hissy fit". Get used to 38 hour slips.

With the Vaus arrival time of 0700 LAX by the time you get to the hotel it will be early AM time back home and the body will be ready to sleep. After a few hours sleep you will be up and about till later that night LAX time. Best time for sleep is from about 0400 LMT LAX and you will sleep through until about 1400 LMT LAX easily. Then up and about for a few hours then off to work at around 2030 LMT LAX.

You will get plenty of sleep in the 2 sleep periods, you will not be exhausted. As soon as Vaus have the aircraft to make it a daily service, you will be on 38 hours slip. There is absolutely no fatigue modeling that will justify otherwise. Get used to long haul flying, its about many time zone changes, sufficient rest to have you safe for the return flight, and nothing else.

[Red Jet]

Another positive part about it (reducing slip time while in LA-LA-Land), is that you get more time at home base with the people you care for. Win-win:ok:

[somewhereat1l]

Mr Wooby - V are daily already and check the flight timings - we arrive 1630 in the arvo into LAX. If it goes to 1 night that will not be a 38hr stay more like 28hrs.

Redjet - true in some respects but then V could squeeze in 5 trips per month instead of the current 4. So at home you would be like a zombie trying to recover from the time zone changes and don't forget reduction in allowances.

[MrWooby]

Didn't realise Vaus was daily BNE-LAX yet, however Vaus website shows dep BNE1100 LMT arr LAX 0700 LMT, Dep LAX 22:30 LMT arr BNE 0520 LMT. The flt you're talking about is SYD-LAX

I agree that later arrivals into LAX are much harder, QF AKL-LAX typically gets in to LAX around midday, and you are totally buggered. It really depends on sleep periods, you need to get 2 sleep periods, one to get over the flight, then another good rest to prepare for next flight. This would be achieved in a 28 hour slip, but a bit hard on the crew, you be in bed for about 16 hours with a few hours to eat. So SYD slip would probably stay the extra day.

As for squeezing in more flights, if you are on 38 hours slip arrive morning and dep the following evening and sleep as I referred to in my previous post you basically stay on sydney time. The jet lag is minimal and you recover fairly quickly. However, if you have a longer slip and do a bit of sightseeing during the day, prepare to pay the price at home. Basically in LAX, sleep during the day, awake at night.

[porch monkey]

So, the whining is starting already. Didn't you read your agreement? Didn't you listen when the more experienced crews told you what would happen? Guess you just better get used to it. As for "reconsidering", good time to be doing that right now. NOT!

[Mikeb744]

V Australia and EY have been using the EK gate.

Although a great gate with direct access to the lounge,
It is the furthest gate away!

[kotoyebe]

Dep LAX 22:30 LMT arr BNE 0520 LMT

Mr Wooby...I've been in the industry for quite a few years, but what is this LMT thingy? Is it a secret crew term, or something that is used by VA. It suspiciously looks like local time to me, which for at least the last 20 years that I know of has been what departure and arrival times are displayed as. I could be wrong, though.

[kotoyebe]

Current time at hotel is around 50 hours but there is a rumour this might be reduced to a single night in LA. If this happens the feedback from crew I have spoken with is that they will be exhausted and will have to reconsider if they want to stay at V.

What? VOZ has been flying for what, a whole month now? And people are threatening to leave already? Didn't these people realise that flying to LAX and back involved crossing time zones and is exhausting? Gee, the glamour has rubbed off really quickly. If this talk is serious, then VOZ will be burning and churning them real hard. The great T and C's, wouldn't be adding to the supposed problem?

[Wizofoz]

Mr Wooby...I've been in the industry for quite a few years, but what is this LMT thingy?

Local Mean Time- Standard Aviation terminology for a lot longer than your "Quite a few years" I assure you!

[Ken Borough]

Local Mean Time- Standard Aviation terminology for a lot longer than your "Quite a few years"

Maybe. But....LMT was replaced by LST (Local Standard Time) or LT (Local Time) as LMT was in vogue when sundials were used. The use of LMT in this thread is the first time I've seen it used in commercial aviation. Best to stick with LT, DST, GMT or UTC - at least everyone would know what these terms mean.

Now, back to the whingeing and whining from the Pacific Intruders.

[tipsy2]

LMT is the actual solar (sun) time. Not usually used in normal polite non navigation related conversation.

Usually only used when calculating first/last light. Cabin crew would not normally be expected to understand or need to know how to calculate.

First time I've seen it refered to in any other way, ever!

:confused::confused:

[Mr. Hat]

Cheers somewhereat1.

So does the company have a policy of no first class meals to crew? I imagine by the end of the sector that they get turfed anyway...

Early days yet i suppose.

[Ken Borough]

So does the company have a policy of no first class meals to crew?

Why would a two-class airline load first class meals for crew? :ugh:

Those airlines that do offer First Class service certainly don't load First Class catering for crew. For those crew "fortunate" enough to eat the scraps, could one be excused for thinking that that would be the best food these scroungers ever get to eat.

[Mr. Hat]

Ken, i didn't say they were loading first class meals for crew. I'm asking someone that knows about V australia if the crews are allowed to eat the left over 1 st class meals as is the case in many airlines around the world.

[Ken Borough]

It couldn't be any simpler: why would any airline that offers Business Class and Economy Class load First Class meals for anyone, let alone the crew? :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[ditch handle]

Mr Hat,

Ken is a little slow on the uptake but I get your point.

They would be unlikely to have any first class meals left over if they don't have a first class cabin..........

[KRUSTY 34]

Here's your chance Sam. Jump in anytime you wish. :}

[Sand dune Sam]

Nah KRUSTY old mate, he aint expert, just a psychotic sociopath, or he's one of your many nom de plumes?.....good to see you havent been sledging VA or VB lately, you may need them for a job when the industry picks up..that is if you havent burnt any bridges??:ok:

[Mr. Hat]

yep no worries my mistake, didn't realise the cabin configuration - left over business class meals do the get chucked or offered to crew?

[somewhereat1l]

Crew can eat anything they want as long as the pax don't miss out!!

[farrari]

QF Tech crew meals are a different speck to the e/pe/b/f meals.

[V-SFO]

Amazing!!! I am always amazed by people who have nothing to do with an airline that are always so quick to comment on it.

I have been with Vaustralia now for 8 months and it has been absolutely fantastic.

The easiest job in the world. Those who think "long haul" is difficult are misguided. Get in the aircraft, work for an hour, go to bed for 6 hours, work for 6 hours and then go out and have a fabulous time with fantastic crew. 50 hours of rest and relaxation and then do it all again back to Australia. A 2 hour nap when I get home and then back to normal. 7 days off before I do it again. Fantastic....those that aren't a part of it don't know what they are missing.

Fantastic crew, fantastic aircraft, fantastic time. You are a bunch of wimps!!!

[Watchdog]

V-SFO,

I'd love to come join you there except for the UNFANTASTIC paycheck! :hmm:

[goddamit]

v-sfo , it's good to hear someone who enjoys their work rather than bitching about others.
Good luck with V
Cheers

[KRUSTY 34]

How does one make a small fortune as a VOZ First Officer? :ok:

[Sand dune Sam]

A SFO with V Australia would earn about twice what you earn as a Saab driver KRUSTY..your sarcasm is noted however...:ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Christ Sam, you must have been hovering for weeks waiting for the opportunity jump on Krusty. And all he did was make a one line tounge in cheek remark! Predictable and puzzleing, as there has been ample scope to debunk all manner of critisim from other posters in the meantime.

I should say I'm honoured, but in fact it's just downright creepy!

The truth of course, is that it's all been said. If VA is a sucess, I will happily acknowledge the decision made by all the people that have worked so hard, and just as happily commend Virgin for pulling off what many on this forum see as nothing short of a magic act. If VOZ does not suceed, then I will say nothing, because as I have stated, it's all been said before.

Whatever reason the pilots at VA (especially the CFO's) have for accepting what are arguably the lowest 777 wages in the world, at the end of the day it's their decision. The fact that people choose to comment on it, well that's their choice.

[YoDawg]

Sorry, but I can't help it:

Prerogative.

Continue..........

[Sand dune Sam]

KRUSTY, I think thats very big of you to not comment if VA fail.....after all, you told us VA was doomed didnt you?

[KRUSTY 34]

Me and many others Sam old mate!

Time will tell. :(

[flyhigh744]

flight crew also eat economy meals?

[ad-astra]

V-SFO

I guess that as much as you are entitled to criticise the comments of other posters, it is the entitlement of other individuals to have their own opinion.

I'm glad that after 8 months with VA you speak so highly of the operation.

In that 8 months how many trips have you actually done?

You criticise others with "nothing to do with an airline" yet your vast experience as a Long Haul pilot allows you to tell us how easy the job is.

Sometimes it's just better to STFU.

I genuinely hope that the operation flourishes but your enthusiasm might be challenged a bit in the future when the accountants start demanding their pound of flesh.

I can assure you that your week long rest at home and the 50 hours in downtown LA will take a hit when VA have more than ONE destination.

As for the "easiest job in the world" - does your Captain sleep much on these flights?

By all means enjoy the 'FANTASTIC' times but I would suggest that you're in for a very rude awakening.

[Sand dune Sam]

Yeah, thats right KRUSTY, you guys did, and still do sh!tcan VA....on a public forum and under the guise of a made up name..how very professional and brave of you guys.........

[ACMS]

sorry V-SFO I have to comment on your reply.


After you've done ULH for 10 years, including minimum rest at outports, big time zone changes and crap flights where you couldn't sleep in the bunk for that wopping 6 hrs ( turb etc ) THEN you can comment.

And how you can be back to normal 2 hrs after getting home is amazingly good stuff!!

You, my 777 friend are very much in the "Honeymoon" stage at VOZ.

Good luck, you're gunna need it in the future if VOZ survives because as ad-astra said "when the accountants start demanding their pound of flesh"

[Red Jet]

Absolutely amazing!!

So we actually have a Ppruner that's come out and stated that based upon his own personal experience - he is actually happy with his lot and enjoy what he does for a leaving and you f%$#ing morons STILL can't help yourself, but shoot him down in flames telling him he's got absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Well i say good onya V-SFO - I can't wait to join you in VA, starting my course in May. Honeymoon or not - heck I've been married for 15 years and it still feels like I'm on my honeymoon, but I suppose I shouldn't say that here, 'cause there is bound to be someone telling me that I'm actually wrong and that Mrs. Red Jet is no good and I must be deluded or something.:ugh:
Let's make that honey moon last:ok:
Why don't you trolls try to ask yourself why the heck you got into into aviation in the first place?? Life's too short to be so negative guys!! Rant finished.

[Mstr Caution]

Pilots speak - "The easiest job in the world"

Accountants speak - "an under-utilised unit of labour"

[V-SFO]

Thanks Redjet...

For the record I am not a newbie at the airline game, nor at long haul. I have 30 years of flying experience and about 6 years of medium to "ultra" long haul. I have worked for 6 major airlines in that time, including the 3 biggest in the world.

I am built for long haul....pure and simple. I am also realistic about how things are and how things can be. So far, Vaustralia has lived up to all that they have promised me and more. Is the salary crap??? YES!!! But as I get older I realize it is more about loving the job and less about getting rich. My kids go to private school, I have a house, a boat, a motorcycle and no debt besides the mortgage.

I believe that my Captains sleep extremely well, and that is the direct result of the experience that I and the other First Officers bring to the cockpit (most of us have been 737 or A-320 captains in the past). If they don't sleep well they shouldn't be a captain.

Will VOZ survive? I believe that if any airline will survive across the Pacific we will. I have worked for both our rivals on that route and can guarantee that we are head and shoulders above one and at least equal to the other. As I stand at the door and say goodbye to the passengers I have heard the "way better than Qantas" at least 20 times.

I have done 6 trips in the past two months. Really that is all you can realistically do and it has been very easy. How do I recover so easily? Because I never leave Sydney time. We depart Sydney in the evening, I usually get the first rest as I am a early to bed, early to rise guy, I sleep from about 10 pm to 4 am Sydney time, which is just about my normal sleep pattern. We get into Los Angeles at 1630 local, late morning on the body. I stay up until about 4 am local/9 pm Sydney and sleep till noon local/5 am sydney time. We depart for home 50 hours later in the Los Angeles evening, but afternoon on the body. Most captains do a 2 rest period on the way back, usually 90 minutes - 2 hours on the first rest and then 4.5 to 5 on the second. I usually watch a movie and eat dinner on the short rest and sleep on the 2nd. Get into Sydney at 7 am, get home by about 10:30 am on the commute. Have a sleep for a couple hours if the kids are in school, don't sleep if they are home. Go to bed that night around 9-10 pm and sleep a little extra than nomal, maybe 9 hours and I am"back to normal".

Compare this with my last airline, where at times I would have to get up at 2 a.m. drive 2 hours and 15 minutes to work for a 5 am sign on, Fly 4 sectors (boring sectors!!) with a hurry hurry hurry attitude, block in 9 hours after our first block out, and drive 2 hours home in traffic to get home around 1700, in bed by 8 pm to do it all again the next day. Way less money to do that as an F/O and after the government takes there cut, only slightly better salary doing it as a Captain. So for me, easy decision.

As for the meals....I don't know what class they come from but they are better than my last airline, worse than the other airlines pre 9/11 but better than post 9/11. The bottom line is I don't worry about it. The coffee is good, if I want fresh fruit it is available and the meals are good. I got bigger issues to think about than that.

Lastly, the hotel has been extremely good. They bend over backwards to keep us happy as once we start MEL-LAX we will take about 40% of their capacity everynight. Although a bit far from the shopping and such, there are great restaurants and bars a short walk away. I also puchased a 150cc motorscooter that they let me keep in the basement garage so I can get out and do things all around the southland. I am trying to get a group of pilots to go in on 4-8 scooters that we will have available. Transportation is key in Los Angeles!

So keep slagging. I am old enough now that I don't succumb to peer pressure. I love the job and the people I work with and will continue to have a positive attitude until I see a reason not to. If we make it we do, if we don't, we don't. I have been around the game long enough to know that their is always another flying job and you make it what you make it.

There are risks in everything you do....take them when you can, hunker down when you can't. :O

[Mikeb744]

Interesting read Sir,
Thanks for sharing

[neville_nobody]

Yeah it might be great at the moment while things are a little under utilised but just like Virgin Blue; wait until it ramps up and you start getting pushed a little more with more flights and maybe some domestic flying. I think that is when the EBA conditions might start to bight a bit.

Fly 4 sectors (boring sectors!!)

So you call 13 hours over water with nothing out the window interesting?:rolleyes:

[Sand dune Sam]

V-SFO......good post..I too would have joined VA last year had it not been for it being "uneconomical" at the time for me to do so.

I can only hope that it goes well, it would be nice to fly long haul out of my home country one day. Do good work.:ok:

[ernestkgann]

Nice one V-SFO. I enjoy it as well. The bosses are doing their best, the guys on the crew are good fun, the aeroplane is great, crew rest excellent and too many chicken wings is never enough.

[Transition Layer]

Saw the V Australia crew waiting for the bus in LAX recently and was bitterly disappointed with the eye candy. Half of the cabin crew were blokes and the girls weren't all that flash. Branson wouldn't be happy!

Also couldn't help but wonder what the V Aus skipper thinks seeing a QF captain who just did the same flight earning almost double...or the F/O earning less then QF S/Os...that pay scale is a f*cking joke

[ernestkgann]

Out of interest what do you earn TL?

[inandout]

TL why don't you :mad: off those people are some ones son or daughter you :mad: ******.

[ACMS]

30 years flying..........SIX years Medium to Long haul with SIX Airlines in THAT time?????????? or do you mean SIX Airlines in 30 years? Whichever way you mean it's still an aweful lot mate.


Having said all that I wish all at VOZ the best, great Aircraft etc but don't crap on about how EASY it is.....................cock.:=

[Phlap1]

Relax TL. The VA guys know it's only time until the QF salaries
get down to the same level. Are there any bloke CC in QF?

[funnelweb]

:DI can only heartily endorse V-SFO's comments, however I fear that his or her eloquence is wasted upon some of the clowns that post on this forum.:ugh:
I have only been with the company for five months and I'm very happy and I am sure that we will thrive.
As a friend of mine in Dragon said the fact that you work with good people in a positive environment is worth tens of thousands of dollars, I also feel that living in ones home town or favoured little piece of Australasia, with generous staff travel concessions to get to and from is worth tens of thousands of dollars as well. There more to life than making moolah.
As for Capt's sleeping habits, there is plenty of depth at V, don't worry about that.
As for utility and ease, much easier swanning off to LA every ten days or so than min rest overnights and triple Canberras.
I look forward to many happy years enjoying one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation.

web

[Tempo]

Hey TL....

Let me get this straight......getting paid a lot more is a bad thing????? So unless a company is paying low cost wages then it is a joke is it?

Interesting concept.....

[Transition Layer]

ernestkgann,

QF SO wages have been discussed a number of times on pprune so I don't really need to spell it out for you, but from what I've seen of the V Aus contract it's more than their Senior F/Os (or whatever they're called).

inandout,

Chill out, was just passing comment that despite public perception, not all Virgin girls are straight off the catwalk. After seen all their promo videos with Branson and girls in bikinis etc, I was a little disappointed that's all.

Tempo,

Maybe you need to re-read my post. I am saying the V Aus pay is a joke...

[neville_nobody]

There more to life than making moolah.

100% agree:ok:

However the tradeoff is lifestyle, something that your EBA doesn't allow for. If you got better lifestyle conditions I think that would be a good deal 9 days a month off doing long haul isn't really what I'd consider sustainable if you want to live beyond about 45

[grusome]

Ernie,
Looks like TL is a QF SO, as you well know a superior level of aviation expertise. That's like a cruise FO isn't it? I don't think I'd bother rising to his bait.

[maui]

Neville.

I don't know how to put it any less offensively, but you really are a dill.

9 days off is the contracted agreement. However 3 1/2 trips a month accrues max hours. So, regardless of how many days off per month are contracted, you will be spending a lot more time at home than the allotted 9. Lets say the average LA trip is 5 days (conservative), that is 17 1/2 days working days per month, call it 18. This is the max per annum. Add on your 9 days off and there are 3-4 extra days when you are totally unavailable. Put it another way, working max hours you will have at least 13 days off per month. Not too bad I would suggest, far better than community average.

And to the cretin who suggested the VA Capt waiting for transport at LAX, would be envious of the QF guy who walks past, cos he earns a greater remuneration. Who gives a ****. There is more to life than dollars. I much prefer to work in a non toxic environment. One in which I am sure that the meals are safe from tampering and that I can go out and socialse with the entire crew whilst away on a layover. They are actually reasonable human beings. Pity the sky gods don't understand this, their life would be much more full if they would step down a peg or two.

Maui

[hongkongfooey]

And to the cretin who suggested the VA Capt waiting for transport at LAX, would be envious of the QF guy who walks past, cos he earns a grater remuneration. Who gives a ****. There is more to life than dollars. I much prefer to work in a non toxic environment. One in which I am sure that the meals are safe from tampering and that I can go out and socialse with the entire crew whilst away on a layover. They are actually reasonable human beings. Pity the sky gods don't understand this, their life would be much more full if they would step down a peg or two.
I'd take the near on double pay, bring my own food to work ( no tampering ), try ( and fail ) to chat up some yank birds on my own in LA, thanks anyway :ok:
VB used to be great for socialising on overnights too, until one day everyone realises that living out of a suitcase sucks arse, and stays in their rooms :eek:

[Transition Layer]

"Dill"

"Skygods"

"Cretin".

That's a bit nasty isn't it! Let's face it, Virgin Australia money is rubbish, one of the lowest paid 777 crews in the world. You can dress it up however you like, hanging out with hosties in slip ports etc but you're not fooling me or anyone else.

I happen to enjoy my work environment, and am happy to eat anything dished up from the galley!!!

I'm going back to wherever "Cretins" go...:ok:

[ad-astra]

Maui et al,

Without the personal attacks - VA have ONE port that is currently used by the current protagonists for
"THE Lifestyle" that will exist for ever more.

MISTAKE # 1 - All and sundry will very definitely find very quickly that our bean counters will be able to fill all except 9 days in a month with either flying or rest enroute.
Your calculations mean nought when the current schedule changes and they start doing North/South flying or the schedule changes from LA only.

MISTAKE # 2 - Believing that the 'Fantastic Times' that exist now will continue unabated for years to come.

Case in point - VB in the early days - we had great overnights with crew that were more than happy to enjoy the time off on the overnights.

Currently - We have min rest on most overnights with crews totally stuffed in the crew bus and all they want to do is crash in their own bed.

I'm not trying to rain on the VA parade but the "Fantastic" times described by some and the belief that this is the "one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation" sends chills up my spine.

I wish them well but please open your eyes!

Cretins and Dills aside approx 800 VB pilots were offered opportunities with VA and the vast majority said no.

Every VB Captain was offered a 777 Command in VA and the total acceptance was less than 10!

Perhaps some of us have enough insight into the ways of Virgin that caused us to look further than the first 12 months of operation.

As for your statement regarding remuneration, time off and toxic environments I am more than happy to be guaranteed a minimum of 11 in 28 with an average of 15 in 28 - earn THIS year over $60,000 more than my 777 compatriots and live in Brisbane and have a salary that is guaranteed to increase over the life of the EBA.

For all who join VA - enjoy the opportunity and I hope that someday it will offer the rest of us in VB an appropriate advancement in our careers but for heaven's sake get a reality check.


I don't know how to put it any less offensively!

[GE90115BL2]

Finally someone with sense..................:ok:

[maui]

Ad Astra.

Mistake #1. I don't think terribly many are saying it is the "cream job", but more, are pointing out that it's not real bad.

Mistake# 2. The "Sky Gods" bit was aimed at the other brand, not VB.

Mistake # 3. Selective memory. Do you recall all those things that were said about VB and it's "bottom feeding" staff, when it was first started. Wrong wasn't it.

Mistake # 4. Failing to account for different circumstances. The VB's offered the positions had the luxury of a secure position and future at the time they made their decisions. A lot of others did not enjoy that luxury.

Each of those who has taken the job has made a personal decision, that what was offered, in some way was a better deal than than the prevailling or expected (personal) conditions that existed at the time of that decision.
That A is better than B, is subjective and irrelevant. That the future looks better than the past, is relevant.

I am glad for you that you had a choice. I am glad that you have exercised that choice in the way that you think is appropriate to your circumstances.

Please do not assume that what is good for you is necessarily right, or good for all.

That is the reality.

Maui

[ad-astra]

Maui

At no stage have I criticised the decision of others to take whatever job they choose to. In fact I think you will find me defending a young guy several months ago when he was seeking interview information and the critics pounced on him for even considering VA. Do the search.

And I will keep on saying that I hope the Airline matures into a career that is sought after.

But its the comments of a few of the "defenders of the faith" that leaves very little confidence that they will make any effort to improve their own conditions nor do they realise that they should be on better conditions

If you are happy with a contractual maximum of 9 days off a month, remuneration that increases when the company 'chooses' to 'review' it and 1000 hours per year then I don't see a problem.

The comment of "one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation" was not mine but one of the 'faithfuls' earlier in this thread.

It is this attitude that you will be fighting against when you find your roster is full to the brim with paxing sectors, reserve days down route, training days, and a bucket load more flying in all directions of the compass. Will this young man still have a smile on his face?

When the schedule changes and a reduced overnight in LA is introduced will the boys 'scooting' around the LA freeways still be having a 'fantastic' time in their 'fantastic' job.

When the company introduces Asian destinations or domestic sectors which could make better use of both aircraft and crew and the 13 days off a month reverts to the companies contracted 9, will the excitement and wonderful lifestyle still be there?

You can guarantee some things.
1000 hours per year
9 days off per month
Your salary.

Any better than that and I will guarantee that there is one very pizzed off VA accountant working his very best to use you to the maximum that is allowable under your contract.

They did not put 9 days in the contract and wake up the next morning and say - these pilots are great guys we will give them half the month off instead!

You will have to fight for anything better!

The biggest problem that you (collectively) have in improving your T&C's is the attitude from the "Whew! - I made it" guys.

I see that attitude being displayed in some of the previous posts.

Next biggest problem will be the pizzed of VA accountant!

Enjoy the job and good luck.

[maui]

Ad-Astra.

I don't think you have said anything with regard to T&C's that is unknown to the guys who have taken the step. However that step was taken on the basis that, given a sucessful operation, things can and will be improved. I believe the same philosophy was adopted by those who started when VB was not much more than a concept. If in the event of our success, T&C's do not meet expectations, the company will likely be faced with an increased attrition rate that will cost dollars and force the powers that be, to reassess the formula. In the event that we fail the T&C's will be irrelevant, but at least all those concerned can walk away knowing that they have helped in the battle for sucess rather than crawling away having that knawing feeling that somehow we have contributed to the demise, by expecting too much too soon.

It seems to me that you have little knowledge of the way long haul ops work. To a large degree the beancounters are constrained by the nature of the operation and the limitations of the regulations. Paxing long haul crews around the network is totally wasteful. Unless you have a weekly service or close spaced destinations, (neither are planned or envisaged),it is far better to keep the crews in place than it is to pax them across the network. Those very beancounters you talk of, are smart enough to recognise that paxing is indicative of a failed scheduling system, and will stand on it as soon as it rears it's head, as it cost heaps.

We will start doing north south flying. Explain to me how that changes the dynamics of the roster. From a crew scheduling point of view 10 to 12 hours flights separated by 24 to 50 hours of rest is the same whether it is north south or east west, only its a lot easier on the body given the lack of time zone changes.

The most likely change to our working lives is likely to be a reduction in outport rest time as frequencies increase. The net effect of this is to increase the unavailable time at home.

Just simple maths should bring home to you the contrast between short and long haul. 1000 hours at an average of 10 hours/day gives 100 days of operation, 14 hours will reduce that to 71. On the other hand 1000 hours at 6 per day gives 166 days of ops. Given the nature of the respective operations it is far easier to achieve the max in the long haul.
Now looking at those 166 days in short haul, most will be starting or finishing at the ends of the day. Lets say 84 early starts and 84 late finishes, each of which, to a degree screws up the day before or the day after. On the same basis the longhauler could have 35 to 50 each of earlys and lates, but the reality is that departures are generally at more civilised hours. At the moment all our starts are late and our finishes early, and given the inflight rest arrangements the duty is not arduous.

Having worked up to 105 hours med/long and also having done 78 sectors/75 hours short I can assure you that the longhaul is a whole lot easier on the body.

I hope we are still around when you work out that there is more to this life than chasing the big bucks. In the meantime enjoy your extra 60k.

Maui

[KRUSTY 34]

Phew!

The last several posts have been robust, intelligent, and mostly free from emotion. IMHO, well thought out and delivered by opposing sides with their respective opinions.

For what it's worth guys, keep up the good work.

Maui. I sincerely hope it works out. I also hope that if VA are around for the "long haul", some pressure can be brought to bear with regard to T&C's. You have correctly identified that any change in this regard will depend on the opportunities elsewhere down the track. History has shown that without such leverage and a unified pilot group, these changes will simply not happen.

Good luck, and trust 'em (management) as far as you can throw 'em!

[ad-astra]

My criticism is not whether someone took a particular job, accepted whatever terms and conditions or chooses to fly short haul or long haul.

It is simply that one port and one route is being portrayed by some as what will be the norm for a career in VA.

Your 1000 hours in 100 days fails to acknowledge the down route layover time - 2 days flying but 4/5 days away does not equal 100 days of 'operation'

My 900 hours in 150 days can be achieved by being home every night should I so wish.

North/South flying may well involve less flying per day, min rest overnights and more days at work.

Math 101

It is not my intent to match your height in this pissing competition but just to keep a small amount of reality in the what appears to be some unrealistic expectations in VA.

I genuinely hope that an increased attrition rate is not necessary to improve the T&C's in VA but I think I know this company reasonably well and it certainly took empty crew seats and idle aeroplanes to get where we (VB pilots) are today.

Once again good luck.

[V-SFO]

I guess I haven't been clear, I am only posting about my personal circumstance and my personal opinion.

So you call 13 hours over water with nothing out the window interesting?No, boring as hell!!! But I only do it 2 - 3 times a month, not 18 times a month, and I sleep half the time!! I always knew it would be boring, but at the other end it's a blast and the people I work with are young, motivated, interesting, friendly and simply fun to be around.

I am lucky. I have experienced a lot in aviation. I have also put myself in a position where I don't have to worry too much about the almighty dollar. I can simply love the job and when I don't, I can move on.

As for the VB guys who turned down the job, I would have also. Why move from a decent company on decent pay to a decent company on worse pay. But a lot of us moved from "Crappy" companys on "crappy" pay to a "decent" company on "crappy pay". I will tell you though, that all VB pilots that choose to come to VA, have a friend in me. It is your right to assume your rightful postion at VA. It may delay my ascent to the left seat, but it is your right and I will not begrudge you of that right. You WILL be welcome and you WILL enjoy the flying.

A lot point to how ****ty the job is going to get when we start going "north/south" or domestic flying. But to me, that means expansion and an opportunity to move to the left seat. Isn't that what we all want?

9 days off??? Not likely. With 3 trips every 28 days that are really 4 day trips (less than 96 hours), you are going to have 16 days off. Anymore than that and you will exceed 1000 hours per year. Will it get worse??? Most likely, but until then I am going to enjoy it. Why anticipate the downfall without enjoying the current great job. Again, if it starts to suck I will simply move on.

There are no longer "careers" in aviation. You go with what suits you best at the moment and when it doesn't "suit you best" you move on.

Anyway, if you don't enjoy your job and feel a need to bitch about it, then do something about it. Although we find ourselves in a "financial crisis", there are always opportunities and those that can do it will prosper.

"Luck is opportunity meeting preparation"......

I have been extremely lucky:O

[neville_nobody]

9 days off is the contracted agreement. However 3 1/2 trips a month accrues max hours. So, regardless of how many days off per month are contracted, you will be spending a lot more time at home than the allotted 9.

Guys your assumption is that all you will do is Australia to the West Coast. What happens when you start doing Tasmans, Syd-Mel or Perths or start going to Asia? I think then 9 days off a month might start looking a bit skinny. I am starting to suspect that some of you V OZ guys are a little naive. With a work contract so good for the company, with an awesome aircraft, you might start find they begin using V for some of the Pac Blue/VB international flying.

[maui]

Neville

Anything is possible in this world, but is it probable.

Must be a bit depressing always looking for the negative!

Maui

[Trimmed_Flaps]

Is any job perfect?

If, in future, V Australia expands into the Asian and/or domestic market, then this will possibly coincide with an upturn in the world's economy.

If the current workforce is unhappy they will move on as other jobs reappear, perhaps taking their experience towards future 787 operators with the easy conversion etc.

If they are happy they will stay.

Sounds like every other job in the world.

Most of the crew I have met are quite happy living back on the beach with their '9 days off'. So far.......

Back to the topic.....

I was told from crew the load was about 66% out of BNE on a flight last week (dont know how many Y class etc).

Not sure of the return leg.

Flaps.

[somewhereat1l]

From June VA will be operating SYD-MEL, crew stay on a/c for several hours then operate MEL-SYD. No allowances as meal provided onboard.

[Angle of Attack]

But I only do it 2 - 3 times a month, not 18 times a month

2-3 times a month at what 4 or 5 days a shot?

As for 18 times a month I just did 11 days in a month, 20 days off, for maximum hours and 3 nights away from home, and I have done the longhaul stuff and I say no thanks!

All for their own when they are new! ^^

[neville_nobody]

From June VA will be operating SYD-MEL, crew stay on a/c for several hours then operate MEL-SYD. No allowances as meal provided onboard.

So much for the 3 trips a month boys...

I'm not negative, I've just been around a bit and seen it all before. You should NEVER write things in an EBA then expect them not to happen.

[flyby]

Mr Neville , Just for your info VA does not have EBA, Individual agreements maybe.

And you will probably find your theory on VA replacing VB/PB on short domestic routes a flawed conclusion.

As for Melbourne its rumoured to be on the back burner at the moment with no start date this year anyway.

And no not all of VA pilots are naive as your so humbly propose.

[Vorsicht]

Yes, the SYD-MEL-SYD will probably throw a spanner in the works for a while, but the ultimate aim is for a MEL-LAX, which will return things to the status quo for a period, until the next change.

It amuses me how incredible short sighted some are, whilst others choose not to view the past.

I'm sure if we look back into the history books we will find that even the mighty Qantas had crap conditions at one stage, and the current, generous conditions were most likely hard fought over many years, taking advantage of periods where pilots had the upper hand and locking things in via unions etc so that they could weather the storm when things were not so good.

So it has been for VB and probably for the bulk of the free world carriers.

The hope is that VA will go the same road over time. First and foremost the airline has to be self sustaining. A key to that is low and predictable salaries in the first few years. If, and only if, the airline establishes itself, will the opportunity to improve conditions present itself.

Presumably, if VA survives, in a few years time it will be operating in a fairly competitive pilot market as carriers struggle to cope with a resurgent world economy. That will be the opportunity for VA/VB pilots to exert some pressure for an improved contract/EBA, and like every other good employee package in the aviation industry, it won't come easy. It will be a long and tiring struggle, but if the market dictates it, it will happen, as long as the VB/VA pilot group has the stomach for the fight.

If the airlines goes under, the issue has gone away. If the pilots don't have the balls for the fight, then the problem has gone away for the management. If the world economy doesn't recover for 10 years, there probably won't be a shortage of experienced drivers. There are a lot of variables and no one knows the answers.

One thing is for sure though, if nobody had taken the jobs, VA would not exist. If VA didn't exist then there would be no chance of a better package down the road. Of course some will argue that if nobody took the jobs, VA would have had to put the salaries up. That may be true, but it may have been the case that they would not have taken the risk if the salary base was too high. Who knows.

We are where we are. At the moment everyone is positive and working hard to get the company profitable, but everyone also has one eye on the future, with the expectations of better conditions, and the other eye on the employment market. If one becomes more attractive than the other, then that is where most people will focus their attention.

Another thing that is also guaranteed is that the fabulous deal that the QF guys work under is never going to be seen again. So there is no point comparing apples with oranges, or wishing for something that is never going to happen. For those that are senior enough at Qantas to feel secure, then good luck to you. For those who are looking down the barrel at a future with J*, the VA and VB guys will be working with you to map out the future of airline pilot conditions in Australia for the foreseeable future.

That is my view of the reality of OZ aviation in the short term. But i have been wrong before.

V

[oicur12]

"What happens when you start doing Tasmans, Syd-Mel or Perths or start going to Asia?"

Poor old Voz guys. Either your airline is doomed to fail in which case tough titties OR you are doomed to have poor rosters as a result of expansion of the airline in which case . . .. tough titties.

[Z Force]

I seem to remember when Virgin Blue started up and there was some sort of gentleman's agreement that when things pick up, the pilot's salary would match those of Qantas and Ansett.

[Al E. Vator]

In about 16 months time if VA are still around (really hope they are), their management will need to Swiftly improve things or suffer dramatically.

They got away for now with paying crap salaries to people who were for whatever reason obliged to work for those salaries. But the novelty is wearing thin already and by the time the global economies ramp up again, these sought-after commodities (rated and current pilots) will be very valuable on the open market. VA will have to up their salaries dramatically or suspend certain operations. Pity the management didn't learn this vital lesson from what was eventuating at V Blue in 2008.

Also a pity that they have pre-set an inevitable and already appearing disgruntled work environment when by paying a bit better they would both ensure a happier workforce now and keep pilots in the future.

[hongkongfooey]

There are no longer "careers" in aviation.

Jeezuz !! the most poignant and ( sadly ) true thing anyone has ever said on PPRUNE, IMHO.

[Mr. Hat]

I'm sure if we look back into the history books we will find that even the mighty Qantas had crap conditions at one stage

No, I think with VA and J* NZ and Tiger vs current cost of living this is the worst pay and conditions have ever been.

It will take a monumental shortage and economy turnaround to get past shiny jet syndrome.

There are no longer "careers" in aviation.

That's exactly it. Some peope think pilots are warm and fuzzy and all proud of their company. Fiercly competetive blue against red team. "We are the best". Those times have gone and today's pilot will drop his/her company at the drop of a hat given the right opportunity.

I hope it works out for the VA guys and gals.

[farrari]

I am doing two trips in 28 days so getting 20/21 days off each every 28 days:day of arrival, day of dept, open, standby included.

[Break Right]

Any idea how much freight V Oz are taking each trip??? Could be making up some of short fall in pax revenue??

[air doris]

After reading the posts in this topic I am still amazed and some what disgusted by the slagging match over who get's paid the most or the better conditions someone has. Forget it. Some of you have no problem slagging off Cabin Crew when we have an issue but look at yourselves, behaving like children over who has the better crew meal or better pay and conditions. All of you are bloody lucky to be flying out of Australia, your home, and not out of some dusty desert or where ever, away from your family and I hope you all continue to do so. For f*&%$ sake be civil and support each other. I read PPRune to get info and comments about what's going on in the industry, not to read bitch sessions between pilots who think someone working for the opposition is inferior. I go to work and sometimes fly with 3 or 4 different "terms of employment" crew but we are adult and have a job to do and we do it well together without discrimination or bias. Regardless of V Aus paying less for the same job you are in, so what, be thankful for what "you" have because if it was you trying to join a new airline out of some unforseen circumstance I'm sure you would take it. Why not try and support each other as a Pilot group instead of the nasty "them and us" situation. It really makes for boring reading.

[V-SFO]

2-3 times a month at what 4 or 5 days a shot? AOA: The question was about how boring it would be. The 4 days at a shot are not boring. Being an American Australian, I cherish the time back in SoCal. So the flights may be "boring" but I only do 4 sectors every 28 day. I love being away for the 4 day trip.


It will take a monumental shortage and economy turnaround to get past shiny jet syndrome.Mr Hat: Shiny jet syndrom??? Really??? I have flown lots of shiny jets. It's all about the job, not the shiny jet. All aircraft look exactly the same from the pointy end, from an F/A-18 to an old B-737 to an Airbus 330. They all look the same....

today's pilot will drop his/her company at the drop of a hat given the right opportunity.And the company will drop you even quicker. Loyalty is no longer an issue for any company...they don't care one bit about you....

I am starting to suspect that some of you V OZ guys are a little naive.Really Neville??? I belive that I have been around the block more than most. Not naive, but smart enough to at least enjoy the good ride while it lasts. I go to work with a smile on my face and come back with a bigger one. If you can't enjoy it the way it is now, how will you ever???? I feel sorry for someone who can't enjoy the good times, because you will really find it hard to enjoy the "bad times"...

Listen gentlemen, someone made a comment about the "honeymoon period". Well I know from experience that if you can't enjoy the honeymoon, you aren't going to enjoy the marriage!!! Life is grand at V right now and with the right mix of people it may remain that way. But I am a realist and know that it will probably go south eventually. But I am going to enjoy the current ride. Good people, good routes, nice layover, great place to live, great aircraft....can it get any better. Check your airline and ask yourself if you can say the same. Not many do right now.

I for one am simply going to enjoy it while it lasts:O:O:O:O

[puff]

New V ad - seems to have been released tonight

YouTube - flyVAustralia's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/profile?v=nymPHeZLMdk&user=flyVAustralia)

[Sand dune Sam]

V-SFO..I wouldnt bother anymore...on pprune it's all about the "goss"..anything factual usually goes unanswered. What your dealing with are a bunch of halfwits that would prefer it if V Australia failed..that way they could sit back and say "I told you so".

Mate, keep enjoying the job, make it work , get those T&C's up and prove them wrong.....there are some good guys at V Australia so I'm sure from that aspect, it would be a good operation.:ok:

[Mstr Caution]

New V ad - seems to have been released tonight


Nice moves....

I thought they stopped the singing & dancing at FA interviews around 2006? :E

[goddamit]

cheap, tacky and trashy. Pole dancers on a 777. Atlantic's 'still red hot' commercial shows sexy with class, how it should've been done. Vaus commercial looks terrible. I would be so embarrassed if I had anything to do with it!

[No1Dear]

surely that is not a genuine ad?? that is rubbish

[Mr. Hat]

V-SFO

The Shiny Jet syndrome comment is more related to what companies are likely to offer as opposed to what people are likely to accept which is what you are getting at in your post.

I couldn't care less what T and C's people accept. I wish the Pilots in all airlines the best of futures. I've never seen it as an us and them scenario or slagged people for paying for endorsements ect. As for those that sit in offices planning on how to drive the conditions down well my wishes aren't so nice.

As for the "pilots dropping company comment", well thats just related to the way things have changed. Years ago in most industries people would have a job for life. These days peoples needs change and they move on. And when people find that what they originally signed up for is only deteriorating then they start looking elsewhere.

Companies can drop people yes but let me tell you good ones are awfully expensive to replace. I think there was a recent study on this.

Again none of this is specifically aimed V Australia or any company for that matter just my obsevations.

My questions about V Australia are purely curiosity and no malice. So you're better of relaxing when reading a post from me.

Good luck with it.

[wirgin blew]

More like Robert Palmers "Addictive to Love" video than pole dancing. If you guys think thats pole dancing you arent going to the right clubs.

:ok: