Lufthansa Italia Recruiting

[eagle21]

Lufthansa Italia is currently recruiting:


Feel free to share your experiences

[wind check]

This is European Union, you don't need to be a "local" anymore :ugh::ok:

If you are good, you'll get the job at LH Italy, if you are bad you'll stay in air dolomiti :eek:

[liftman]

contact to send a CV please?

[EAM]

wind check, you didnt realy understand the subject.

[EAM]

If it would be that easy.
LH has about 200-300 pilots in overhang, so it would be sensless to hire pilots, and to join LH you have to speak german, thats an requirement, for ALL LH pilots.
So you see, its not that easy.

We will see what will happen, if they are able to hire pilots for LHITA, very good.:ok:
If not, some (italian) pilots might learn it the bitter way.

It would not be the first time, that selected pilots could not be hired due to LH union regulations.

BTW: you are right, most italian companies pay better than LH.

[EAM]

I have absolutly no concerns, I am actualy waiting that they take non LH pilots.
And of course its a political reason, we both know what is going on in Italy at the moment.
A lot of pilots are waiting for LHITA because many will lose their job in the next month due to this kind of political agreement, so LHITA would be a chance.

BMI is like Swiss, SN, etc an other story, because they are not flying in LH colours with LH flight numbers, that is the point on the whole thing.

If they give the routes to the new LHITA, with a LHITA colour (different from LH) and the call sign is not LH, than it would be easier.

Its is clear that the LH managment want to recruit staff for LHITA, but it will be a difficult way for them when it comes to the cockpit crew.

Just to remember, pilots coming from LH school have to wait 5-6 month to start flying, no comand courses, so hireing people from outside is not something the union appreciates very much, which is understandable, we wouldnt be pleased if this would happen in our company.

[EAM]

Not sure about this, games are already done at alitalia no more pilots will be laid off, those who were laid off will continue to get benefits from the state, which in some cases means they do nothing and get as much as what they would earn flying 70 hours per month for most of the other italian airlines, so not all of them will be interested in a new job.

not talking about AZ guys, people lost their jobs and will lose their jobs so AZ guys can keep theirs.
You might know that around 60 AP pilots have to give their seat to AZ pilots who are in "cassa integrazione"


When easyjet based their aircraft in germany the hired many german pilots who were just laid off from a german bankrupt airline. What would have german people said if easyjet had prevented german pilots from working for them,...

That is correct, but its a bit a same thing and a bit different.

Its the same thing, because easy hired pilots according to their requirements. The same for all pilots, english, german, italian, etc. Same in LH everyone can apply, its just that you have to speak german, there are italian, spanish dutch and belgian pilots in LH. Its just that everyone speaks english, so everyone can apply to easyjet. And that the difference.

[hetfield]

Same in LH everyone can apply, its just that you have to speak german,True!

BUT, they will bend it to the greatest extend, because M. wants it !

NO KTV PILOTS AT LHI!
Your/The master's voice.

( I assume)
;)

[Iver]

Three questions:

1. What are the new recruits being told about their career progression? Is the expectation that they (the Italian joiners) will be flying only for LH IT for their careers or are they told they could eventually join mainline LH?

2. For those who are successful, what is their experience? Type rating? From which airlines - Air Dolomiti, Air One, AZ?

3. Since the flights are relatively short out of MXP, how many sectors likely per day? How many days flying per week and month?

Cheers

[EAM]

Selection havent started yet, but it should be like this.

1) Only if you pass the full DLR Test for LH incl. the german language

2) some AZ, some others

3) 2 to 4, night stopps at CDG an LHR, should be 10 days off per month

[Iver]

Thanks EAM. I would think German-speaking Italians would be motivated to apply in that case... Certainly a motivator to at least learn Deutsch while you are there if you don't know it already.

Another question - are there current LH mainline FOs who will bid MXP to fly for LH IT? Perhaps some of the underutilized LH Cargo pilots will bid it...

[ITA]

Hello, where to apply? any link or email add?

Thank you,

ITA

[EAM]

Iver, LHITA is not an airline/company...yet.
As far as I see it, all is covered with normal rotations from FRA and MUC.
There is no base at MXP.

Its not just learning german to join LH, you have to meet the requirements and apply to LH, which currently is not hireing.

So I actually doubt that in case LHITA will hire own pilots, they will have a chance to join mainline LH.

[milosaka79]

U will never fly LH planes, only LHITA, and the base will be MXP.
Hired pilots will have another career, different from the LH ones.
The DLR screening is in English, U don't need to know or learn German.
The first dates for GU are 14,15,20 april.
They called mostly AZ, AP and other italian RATED pilots, giving them only 12/10 days time between invitation letter and test.
That's not enought time to get prepared for GU at DLR!!!!
CRAZY...10 days only!

[skyflaps]

learning another language - interesting, possible and fun

DLR GU - is a lottery ...... There is a test - 9 watches clock test that the DLR uses (approx 1,5 sec exposure for the clocks) - possible to practise on 'skytest' cd - no matter how much one prepares, the result for this test will be random i.e. DLR GU is a lottery - fact - and you're allowed one chance for life. To all those going for it - just be aware it has an extremely high failure rate - dont rest any hopes on it, treat it as a lottery because thats what the selection is to the enter the gates of the fine LH Club.
10 days is enough to prepare using 'skytest cd' - (dont waist money on preparation cousres - they add no extra value ).

Of course DLR can change the tests i.e. greater exposure time - exclude that particular test, etc to give better chance, who knows......

good luck

[AFD]

Only if you pass the full DLR Test for LH incl. the german language

This is completely false my friend,i've been invited to attend the screening.
i'll be in hamburg the day after tomorrow,and when i asked the man who i talked to if i would need to talk german,he said that official language for this screening and for lufthansa italia will be the english one.
the test will be in english,and german is not a requirement at the moment,many pilots who are now in "cassa integrazione" because they were laid off by alitalia,have been called to attend the screening on 15th and 21th april

so you'd better be informed before talking
ciao

[EAM]

we were talking about joining the LH mainline, not LHITA.

so you better read........well, not my style. :p

[one day soon]

I don't have much to add regarding the Lufty Italia side of things but as far as BMI is concerned Lufty are not the full owners yet that many of you seem to think.The deal was delayed from Jan to Feb, then again to April and now to May or June at the earliest! There are many factors causing this but certain irregularities may yet crush the deal. Even when/if it goes through SAS will still own 20% so it is difficult to compare to the LHitalia and Austrian scenarios. Good luck to all in these times

[AFD]

we were talking about joining the LH mainline, not LHITA.


so you better find out the right thread to avoid to be OT:ok:

[claudias]

hi there,

maybe somebody knows some more informations about:

what are the requirements?
who was invited? (airline, cpt, fo)
how many needed?
where and how to apply?
any rumors about t & c?
interview held by lh personal?

:O


cheers

[paleWhite]

what are the requirements?
only lufthansa knows..

who was invited? (airline, cpt, fo)
both cpt and f/o. some from AZ, AP. someone else from different companies, not rated on the bus.

how many needed?
maybe a lot, maybe nobody...

where and how to apply?
try this one
[email protected]
or
[email protected]

any rumors about t & c?
nope

interview held by lh personal?
first of all DLR..

ciao

pW

[EAM]

so you better find out the right thread to avoid to be OT

Whats your problem mate???

The question by Iver was:

Is the expectation that they (the Italian joiners) will be flying only for LH IT for their careers or are they told they could eventually join mainline LH?

and the answer is:
Only if you pass the full DLR Test for LH incl. the german language


Somethimes its a good idea to read and to use its brain in flying and in the forum.

[Charly]

Any News?

Regards

Charly

[paleWhite]

recruitment is going on..
italian language is a requirement for the final interview.
actually no one has passed to the second phase yet as first DLR responses will be given not earlier than 2 weeks..

ciao
pW

[Dries v.d. Tillaard]

If they were to make LHI entry tests exactly the same as DLH tests they would be creating another body of semi KTV-pilots ,who would therefore want the exact same T's and C's as their German counterparts.
That would make the entire LHI-scheme too expensive for managment thus rendering it utterly useless.

What DLH-management want is DLH quality but for a bargain price with no complaining from personnel wanting a decent roster , vacation , sick-leave and all that nonsense.
No hassle, no union-activity.Fly the plane and be happy we gave you a job.
Unfortunately , Italy is full of people who will tolerate this.
Whilst LH itself is recruiting newbies from their own Flight academy on parttime contracts , just to be able to employ them at mainline!

It's just a perfect opportunity for management to give our union the finger and get around our collective labour agreement.
They'll be very very sorry.

[AFD]

italian language is a requirement for the final interview.

really?
i thought the final interview would be in english

[EAM]

Its not compleatly wrong, because a lot of italian pilots will be without a job within the next 3-4 month and it will be difficult to find something else in italy.

But one thing is wrong, LHITA does not pay low salaries, due to the lower tax in italy, they probably get a better salary than a new entry in LH. :cool:

[EAM]

@ee51, no italian airline will lay off pilots in the next month, right, but about 40+ pilots in AP have a contract that will expire within the next 4 month and it will not be renewed. These are no fake news, this is the reality.

Conditions in italy are much better in italy than in germany, worked for both, know what I am talking about.

[Charly]

Hi there...

Did the first candidates get a reply from DLR?

Regards

[yannick04]

just to clarify the language issue:

Additional Requirements

Fluent in English and Italian (written and spoken)
Good vision: +/- 3 Dioptres
EU-Citizenship or Italian permanent residency permit. Please note that when it comes to free movement of workers the following countries are still not considered as part of the EU: Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Estonia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland
Valid JAR medical class 1 certificatewell, gonna work on my italian..... :mad:

[Brix]

just to clarify the other issue:

there is an age limit imposed both on F/O and CPT positions which is against EU regulations and against german legislation.

LH has been doing this for decades and they are arrogant enough to continue this practice. Who is responsible for this? The union? The management? You will encounter difficulties finding out.

This has been the only job offer (apart from the odd 60 rule) that I've seen where a max. age of 45 is required for captains. This is outrageous, to say the least.

Surprisingly this doesn't seem to be much of a concern for most german guys - and I have no reason to believe that german law is not applicable in this case - because in that country everybody who is working outside LH is only working for him/herself.

[EAM]

Not really, people went against the age limit of LH about 2 years ago and they dropped it from CAs, but I am surprised that they still have it for pilots.
The problem with LHITA is, that it does not affect many germans, as you have to be fluent in italian, so it would be on the italians, to go against it, as LHITA will be an italian company.
Anyway, the would still be an unofficial age limit and they have other problems at the moment.
Today is another pilots meeting and the LH pilots are going to fight against the recruitment of LHITA.
LH instructors already refused to train pilots for LHITA.

[hetfield]

LH has been doing this for decades and they are arrogant enough to continue this practice. Who is responsible for this? The union? The management? In this case I would say LHI Management.

LH instructors already refused to train pilots for LHITA. Ooops, that's tough! Where do you got that from?

[happyapple]

LH instructors already refused to train pilots for LHITAwell apparently they have failed pilots at sim assessments with no reason.
This is extremely unfair as sim assessment for LH can be taken only once in your life. If the union was not happy with LH hiring new pilots for LH italia they should have publicly said so or may be they should have done a recruitment ban or spread the voice in some way. Then pilots would have been adviced and could have waited till an agreement was found instead of wasting the only chance they had to join LH with a biased sim assessment! Exremely unprofessional :yuk:

[EAM]

they have turned down pilots at sim assessments with no reason.

exactly, thats why I will postpone my Sim, I dont want to be a victime of their war.
If they fight for their jobs, thats Ok, but if they take away chances of others, which can not be done again, its more than unfair.
It is Ok if they manage it, that LHITA can not hire pilots, but it is not Ok if they fail good pilots just because they dont want anyone to pass.

I am sorry to say that, but (most) LH pilots just care about themself.

[AFD]

It is Ok if they manage it, that LHITA can not hire pilots, but it is not Ok if they fail good pilots just because they dont want anyone to pass.


this is what i told you few days ago, i told you that the failure rate was too much high and so i thought they don't really want to hire non german pilots

[Birdy767]

Guys, don't loose your time and money with this political-syndical joke...

PS: 75% of applicants were from Alitalia. Does it mean that all these very experienced pilots were not able to cope with the "Major airline pilot duties"? I DON'T THINK SO. Some people in LH should learn what "RESPECT" means.

[TOFFAIR]

To get information you can get directly to the site, its very easyto acces...
I think some guys get confused with the LH structure, on the one hand there is LH the holding, that embraces many companies in different areas and on the other there is LH-passage (the LH airline itself). LHI will belong to the first one. The holding will do its best to use its own resources and optimize its synergy. Think of LHI like City Line, although it uses LH colours and callsign it is another company. In areas like sales bookings, marketing, etc, the customer should have the impression it is all the same... about the age limit, I think its fair they expose the profile they are looking for, unlike other companies you dont see any restrictions, get hopes but will most certainly never get hired... My opinion is that LH might be one of the best companies right now in Europe, but not nescessarily the best employer. And isnt it about time Unions stop thinking locally and start acting global?

[Airbus_a321]

AFD
they dont even want to hire German pilots !!!! :yuk:
I guess there are a lot of highly experienced and qualified German pilots who would love to fly for LH even LHIT.....BUT...

they want only to hire a pilot, who fit in their psychological "LH-roster".

Long time ago someone told me: we really dont need experienced pilots, we can make monkeys to fly our aircrafts, provided that they "fit" in our psychological-roster:}

[EAM]

Problem is, that the italian pilots have a lot of faith in the LH recruitment because they have no experiance with it.
LH is playing a lot of tricks with it, they need more pilots, more will pass,
guys who paid 120K € to do the ATPL with the LH school have better chances to pass the selection.
Pilots from Swiss and AUA had better chances to pass, or their selcection was even accepted. Of course they deny it.

Funny thing, friend of mine, who is to old to join LH, flew 2 years on their A300-600, because he was sent over from HLF.

It is not the first time this happens and it wont be the last, but LH does not need to hire pilots for LHITA, at the end they could continue like they do now.
The union is playing hard and they dont care about others, now they even want 50% of the Aerologic jobs, which is not even an LH company.


Its Ok that LH guys want to protect their jobs, but if you talk to (most) of the LH pilots, the consider non KTV pilots as 2. class pilots.


Lets hope that one day they dont make the same experiance like the AZ guys and standing there in the rain.......all alone.

[seaduck]

Sorry guys,

but i think that it is unfair what you are saying about lh pilots.

The jobs at lhi are "our" jobs. We have no upgrades, no progression, lh cargo has stored md11s.
The embraer, a replacement for the 737 fleet goes to air dolomiti, augsburg airways and cityline and there will be no longer upgrades with condor.....

The managment took the 5 lhi A319 from germanwings(full lh subsidary) and is cuttting our jobs. And you think it is unfair if lh tris and tres fail pilots during their application process?

In the usa, everybody that would apply for such a job would be called a scab!

And by the way...the reason why the older hlf pilots were not able to join lh has nothing to do with pilot skills or interpersonal reasons....

The reason is the company pension system of lh. You get a "übergangsversorgung" when you are 60 years old. If you are to old when you join you cannot accumalte enough credits and you would take away credits of your fellow pilots.

Cheers,

Seaduck

[EAM]

The jobs at lhi are "our" jobs. We have no upgrades, no progression, lh cargo has stored md11s.

Absolutly agree with you, these are your a/c, your routes and of course your colour and so your jobs, no doubt.

But wouldnt it be fair, that you fight your war with your company and dont make good pilots a victim of your war?

I am with you in all this, but how could you ask for understanding if you dont care about the others?

Get your war done, if you win you have nothing to worry about, if you losse you might have selected out a lot of good pilots for LHITA, this is not the style of a major carrier.

You and me we know what is going on with LH, but the italian guys dont have a clue what happens in LH, they just see the chance to work for LH, which they consider as a very serious company, after all this **** with AZ.

[Airbus_a321]

The jobs at lhi are "our" jobs.
This post could have obviously done only by a LH employee/pilot and either is bare sacarsm or just big big rubbish.
But for me its understandable that the above quote is probabely the thinking of most of the LH pilots. They are working in an ivory tower, on top with big KRANICH-blinders and so they have no clue about the REAL situation in the globalised airliners job market.
They have no yet realized that the big bubbel has burst. Hope they will get a chance to land in the real world:}

@EAM I agree. Unfortunately our Italian guys, after having experienced all the grande casino with AZ and the behaviour of some other airlines in their homecountry are highly disappointed and frustrated.
Now with the new born "LHI-star" most of them are just to much trustful, bona fide, and see LHI as a kind of a Messiah. But it is NOT.
They will experience and undergo a very painful and probabely mostly unsuccessful, selection process.

[warmkiter]

to A321 and all the other whiners and daydreamers...

I am sure there is some bloke out there who will do your job aswell for the half of the salary and please be nice to this guy. He only wants to survive!

The LH Mainline pilots are starting to fight against the erodication of OUR working enviroment. This has started way too late, but hope not too late.

I know you want my job, thats ok. I have no problem with that. But please dont have a problem if i want to keep mine and fight against anybody who wants to have a share of my pie. thats life, got a problem with that?

The management tries to cut the pie in many little crumbles..

The list is long and will continue

Lufthansa Italia
BMI
AUA
SWISS
Brussels Airlines
Jade Cargo
Aerologic
JetBlue
Condor Berlin
Condor
German Wings

want more?, i am sure there is more in the pipeline to come...

All these companies are an opportunity for pilots outside the KTV to get a job, thats fine with me, but they also are a opportunity for the management of LH:

1. to bypass the entry-requirements for LH Mainline
2. Pay less wages
3. Create jobs with a lower standart of life for its employes
4. install a divide and rule situation among the employees
5. try to get rid of KTV

Anybody who doesnt understand this, is living in a dreamworld. The management tries to cut costs and we try to earn our money. Thats the way the industry works. If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen because its going to be a long, hot summer!

To all these comments about ivory towers and arrogant pilots, i have only one answer: Open your eyes! This is what the LH management wants. Little brave followers who all blow into the same horn. Fly for less money, shuts the F:mad:K up when it comes about T&C. All these puppets are happy to fly a jet, have an endless thankfullness to the company who gave them a chance. They also fear the dooming prognosis of the managemt of a bancrupcy looming around the corner if they are not willing to work for less.:ugh:
As long my company has assets to invest outside the core-business i dont think the S:mad:t is going to hit the N1. Where do you think this money comes from? LH is buying on airline after another and investing at the same time in its shortrange & cargo mainline as little as possible. At the same time its asking employees for sacrifices in salary and grounding A/C and starting the same operations with different subcarriers. (etc. LH Cargo / Aerologic)

The only clueless here is you A321! Because the scenario like above is the one guys like you dont understand, the big picture, the global play... Only because i still feel proud to fly and work for a company i dont have to shame a bit! What do you know about globalisation and the "real world outside" All you want is to get rid of the well paid, well trained, fat and happy KTV pilots. Are you a pilot or a managementpuppet? If you didnt make the DLR test, i feel sorry for you. You got a job in an A321 i assume, so be happy and make the best out of your options. I wish you all the best and good luck.

Look how well the other airlines in Germany treat their employees, notice any similarities in the development? If the KTV falls, its one of the last fortresses of good working conditions and i bet the remaining airlines will not pay better after that. All the smaller companies always orientate with the flag carriers. We all lose if the flag carriers lose.

We had some heated discussions with you EAM, and I do agree with you that its a foul play if guys get busted in a SIM Check because of politics. The LH management is playing a foul play also in Condor screenings, inviting DEC for selection but knowing at the same time that there are a lot of FOs who are way before them in the queu for upgrade, so there is no need for DEC. This is the same sh+t. Playing the pilots against each others.

Some of our checkers are very companymindend. Especially those who are involved in creating new subsidiaries of LH, because they are usually also having a management function. I wonder a little bit if these guys bust checkrides. It would be the vice versa what i would expect. I keep an ear open and check this out.

these are thoughts of a copilot after working for more than 10 years on the righthand seat. My CPT upgrade has moved well beyond the visible horizon. Wonder which comes first, gray hair, 40th birthday or an upgrade:}

good luck and good night

....and keep fighting for your job....:)

[happyapple]

warmkiter
just to make my point more clear: you are free and welcome to fight for your jobs as long as you do it in a FAIR way.

[Liz29]

Hi,

is there somebody who's already been to the second phase ? I wanted to know if the final interview is in italian or english. I'm going to the first phase on 27th july.
thanks

[EAM]

First: pass your first stage, then worry about the second.
Second: if you are not fluent in italian you should not apply.

[Speedbird715]

May I also add to the discussion that within the next year or so, more than 300 cadets from the ab-initio training scheme will accumulate on a waiting list for Lufthansa mainline + Germanwings. Considering the current state of play, we can not be placed with Lufthansa Italia, Aerologic, Jade or any other LH spin-off. I hope one may understand now that this situation is perceived as (mildly speaking) paradox when on top of this new pilots are hired for what seaduck referred to as 'our jobs'.

So here's hoping that this summer will bring some clarity for us and all others currently seeking to join.

A LH student pilot

[EAM]

Ok student pilot, finish your training and then see what happens.

When we are talking about "our jobs" we are talking about pilots, not students.


warmkitter, I think we agree on most things, your jobs etc, fight for it.
But its, as you say, unfair to fail good pilots on the screening, but of course its unfair by LH to start a selection while still talking to the union.
Get an agreement, do a selection and then hire pilots, if able, but dont make others a victim of this war.
I wish you a lot of luck on your fight, but I guess you understand that I hope that it will be possible to hire pilots on LHITA, as you hope for the opposite.

Just remember, that most companies in italy pay much better than LH does,
so LHITA cant just pay peanuts, they have to pay almost the same like LH does.

[dirk85]

What does exactly make those jobs "yours"?
LHITA will be an airline making its money in Italy, carrying mostly Italian people from\to Italian cities... why should they employ only German pilots?
Whats's the problem, the selection process? You want pilots to pass the DLR? Ok. Do you want them to pass the sim with "superior" LH standards? Ok. Do you want them to pass the tricky psycho games? That's fine. Fair enough, if you want to work for LH, you should undergo the same selection process as LH pilots, I can understand that.
What else make a German KTV worthier than these pilots? Only the fact that they applied for mainline LH when they still smell milk? What?
De facto pilots passing the selections didn't do nothing different than the great blonde German KTV pilots. What's the difference? The LH school?
Do you really thing the LH training standards are higher than, for example, AZ ones? Quite arrogant from you. And anyway passing the sim they proved to be good enough. Or not?
Maybe it's the German language? Or the German nationality? We are in Europe, wake up.
Tell me what. I really want to understand.

[seaduck]

Hi dirk,

nobody thinks, that LH or LH Pilots are better. The point is, that LH managment is offering jobs on the one hand and cuts jobs on the other side inside the KTV.

That is the reason, why I said "our" jobs. LHI are jobs, that where former flown by LH mainline aircraft and LH mainline pilots.

Where is the problem that we are willing to fight for our jobs?

And by the way... "Just remember, that most companies in italy pay much better than LH does,
so LHITA cant just pay peanuts, they have to pay almost the same like LH does."
What is the name of these companies? At which italian airline is your initial salary more than 65000 euros and the final salary more than 200000 euros?

Cheers,

seaduck

[warmkiter]

This has nothing to do with superior blond german superpilots,its nothing about training standarts, nothing about LH flightschool, nothing about AZ vs. LH standarts etc. DLR seems to be a traumatic issue for you, try to get over it!:}

1. you have no clue about the biz, if you want to join the conversation get informed about the big picture. i gave some hints. Here is another one, maybe you check what routes air dolomiti is flying. Some used to be B737 operated. MUC B737 is basicly phased out. No more training for CPT/FO on this type in any base. This will be the path LHITA will go too. Taking over RTEs covering south Europe. Rtes LH mainline used to operate. To be honest i am a little tired trying to explain what our "job" means. Wheather you get it or not. Maybe you ask a BA pilot about Openskies. He might try to get the message through. Maybe...

2. Keep your racist commets for your self, that is only populist BS. LH is employing regardless of nationality or color of hair.

to EAM: I hope that the italia pilots will push through T&C close to KTV. This will stop the eradication of payscales. Good luck!

[hetfield]

. why should they employ only German pilots?

Isn't the opposite simply the truth......?

[EAM]

At which italian airline is your initial salary more than 65000 euros and the final salary more than 200000 euros?

AirOne, Alitalia, Eurofly, just to name 3 of them.
Friend of mine is FO on 744, 8 years with LH, makes about 4300€ net (guess you can confirm that) FO AirOne after 1 year makes about 4500€ net.

@dirk, its not about the standart, even if some of the LH guys think only a LH pilot is a good pilot, but its more about the contract, the KTV.
I guess if LH would hire the pilots on the KTV for a MXP base it would be OK.

[AFD]

But wouldnt it be fair, that you fight your war with your company and dont make good pilots a victim of your war?

i fully agree with you

[AFD]

Hi,

is there somebody who's already been to the second phase ? I wanted to know if the final interview is in italian or english. I'm going to the first phase on 27th july.
thanks

there're already 4 pilots who succesfully passed all the screening and now are waiting for the contract,but they've been told that discussion with union are still in progress

[dirk85]

nobody thinks, that LH or LH Pilots are better. The point is, that LH managment is offering jobs on the one hand and cuts jobs on the other side inside the KTV.

That is the reason, why I said "our" jobs. LHI are jobs, that where former flown by LH mainline aircraft and LH mainline pilots.

I can agree with that, but this is not the case.
I don't remember of any LH plane flying the routes now operated by LHI. This is more like a new company (although with LH name on it) trying to serve a new market on new routes. They are not stealing anyone job, but creating new ones.
Not many similarities with Air Dolomiti.
They (LH) probably wouldn't have got all the support they are actually getting from local authorities without the promise to employ local people.

I guess if LH would hire the pilots on the KTV for a MXP base it would be OK.

I'm not really sure of that. Those are "their" job... but I hope they will contraddict me.

[warmkiter]

sorry to say, but this discussion is not your cup of tea. you are just completing your ATP, not employed by any airline and just too young to understand.

may i make a suggestion to you, what about if you just contribute as a silent follower and maybe when you have been working for a couple years in the industry and gained some experience review your opinions. even if some guys here have different opinions, most of us have a common goal: prevent any management from eradicating working conditions in any airline. this may sound strange to you, but YOU will profit from this, if you make the step and get employed and stay long enough in the industry.

i wish you good luck

[ricky-godf]

warmkiter

your reply to dirk85 is not fair, as young and unexperienced he might be, he made a fair point and seems to me that you are trying to cut him off the discussion because you haven't got a decent reply.

You mentioned BA case on Openskies... let me explain why the british union (BALPA) dropped the case. It was illegal by EU law!!

If I understand correctly LH wants to create an italian company (Lufthansa Italia) which is fully owned by the german LH but registered in Italy, with an italian AOC, and there is not a single route that LH Italia is going to take over from LH mainline.
So this to me is creating a new market....not stealing jobs!!!

If LH Italia is actually recruiting to LH standards and the contract would be the same to LH mainline, where is the eradication of working conditions?

Is there any job redundancies coming up for LH pilots?
Is the company trying to cut your salary and degrade your working conditions?

If yes, then you should fight hard to get those jobs in LH Italia, otherwise if it is just a mere opportunity to employ young cadets and promote a few LH co-pilots, I think you guys are quite wrong.

Ricky

[maybepilot]

LH isn't doing very well lately and has been reducing capacity & aircraft (read here (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/28/328877/withdrawn-lufthansa-fleet-to-reach-25-aircraft-this.html)) and their pilots' position on the LH Italy issue is totally understandable.

Maybe the 6 aircraft now based in MXP are not flying LH mainline routes, but who can say they won't do it in the near future?
We have witnessed lots of similar examples in the past of the aviation industry.

While I feel sorry for those unemployed who hope for a job in LH Italy I am however 100% with the LH mainline guys who are doing everything they can to protect their own pilots first before setting up a new company and hiring people from outside the airline who would jump the seniority lists and accept lower T&C's.

[EAM]

ricky, its not really like that.
First, LH could put some a/c to MXP and start flying routes without creating LHITA, like they are doing now, no ital. AOC is needed.
And SEA would support this in the same way, as MXP is half empty and they are happy about any new flight.
Second they dont really create a neew company, they still sell the tickets as LH, with the name, the colour etc, its like buying a Mercedes produced by FIAT. :D

The 6 a/c have been taken from the LH fleet (GermanWings), plus at the moment there are no upgrades in LH and no pilots are hired in LH.

This is not about the standarts of LH, this is about contracts between LH and the union and its against the agreement they have with the union.

If they would create LHITA as a own company, flying the routes as LHITA and selling tickets as LHITA and not on the LH website, it would be different.
Sell LH, use LH rules and standarts.

But, for both sides LH and union, get you problems solved, now they are just playing unfair and the italian pilots are the victims.

The situation is already difficult in Italy, so we dont need LH to make it worse.

[sonicguy]

anybody knows the T/C as F/O and Capt?
;)

Thanks

Sonicguy

[EAM]

warmkitter, there is just one thing about "our jobs" "your jobs" you should be aware of, if LH gets an AOC for LHITA, which they would need to fly outside of the EU or the OpenSky, like Moscow, they have to hire pilots for LHITA on italian contracts and the pilots have to be registered as pilots in italy.
So to get "your job" you have to resign from LH and sign a contract of LHITA.

[ricky-godf]

sorry EAM,

it seems to me that you are contraddicting yourself.
In one post you say that LH do not need to create a new company LH Italia.
In the next post you say that they need an italian AOC to operate certain routes if the expansion plan goes that way.

I believe that if LH management wants an italian AOC there must be some operational reason behind it, like those you just mentioned.

I heard that LH is grounding quite a few aircraft in Germany, 25 or so, this winter.
I believe that the creation of LH Italia will help LH to transfer some of the extra capacity into the Italian market, to avoid having an extra 6 a/c on the ground in Germany.
So LH Italia is not actually taking any active aircraft from LH mainline, but it is simply helping to transfer some extra capacity to a different market.
If there is no job or salary cut in the LH group I cannot see this as stealing jobs. Or do you actually believe that if LH Italia would have not been created the situation in LH mainline would be better, with more promotions and job openings?

If LH wants to enter the Italian market with an Italian AOC, they do need to be an equal opportunity employer by EU law. I do not believe that restricting the applications to German-speakers only would be welcome by the local government, or by the Italian CAA.

As I said before, I totally agree that the LH pilots should fight for those jobs created by their company if there is any redundancies or salary cuts planned for them.
Otherwise, if they are just looking to get those jobs because the LH mainline is suffering of over-capacity, thus reducing the job prospect for new cadets and not promoting first officers, I would not agree with them.

Ricky

[EAM]

ricky, sorry if I didnt make it clear, but at present LH does not need an italian AOC for the present network, not even for flights to the US they would need an ital. AOC.
But as they asked for the AOC, because they might plan other routs, they would need to employ pilots on an ital. contract.

But to answer you question, yes it will change when they employ the pilots on LHITA, just figure it out by yourself, 6 a/c in MXP are presently operated by LH crews, in the future these a/c should be operated by LHITA crews, so 6 a/c less for the LH pilots, less CPTs needed, less F/Os needed.

[ricky-godf]

Yes, I understand that... my point is different: the underlying problem for LH being overcrewed is an excess capacity in LH mainline (exactly as any other carrier in the world), LH Italia is not going to affect the crew levels for Deutsche LH itself, but it would be a good opportunity for LH pilots to smooth their over-capacity problem.
for example: if LH is going to ground 25 a/c this winter (+ 6 a/c to LHI), I believe that without LH Italia it would ground 31 a/c, if you see what I mean.
So for LH management this is a great chance to use some extra capacity in the Italian market, and for LH pilots a good way to work more, employ more people or promote few captains.

The problem is that I do believe that no matter what LH is allowed to do with their own AOC, they need to provide equal opportunity in Italy otherwise the italian governement could oppose their expansion in MXP.
I work for easyJet and in my company we have many similar cases, despite we have an european AOC we were forced to employ french speaking cabin crew for our bases in CDG, ORY, LYS.
At the end of the day without government and authorities approval might be very hard for LH to go ahead with their italian subsidiary.
And if LH Italia project would be stopped, I do not think LH pilots would be any better off.

I hope my point is clearer now.

Ricky

[warmkiter]

Ricky

the only clear point is that you have no clue at all...

From your standpoint you can not have the necessary background knowledge and if you dont bother even to read the previous post then not even a godfather can help you.

Its absolutely rubbish, if you say that LHITA is not affecting crewlevels at mainline!

Our management shifts the shortrange traffic away from mainline and let it be flown where ever its done cheaper.

I did my first lineflight 10 years ago on the D-AILT, that plane went to German wings and is now operated by LHITA.

On this particular A/C you can see where our upgrades go. Away, gone, bye bye.... No shortrange planes, no upgrades. That should be so easy figure out that everybody understands...

We dont want that LHITA projekt is stopped, but done at the same base the mainline is done. If its not a cheap italian subsidiary, but a well paid job it will be a win/win for all the pilots.

First of all its a sign for the management that outflagging will not be the way to cut crewcosts and ofcourse all crews operating for LHITA will be paid equally good as the mainline.

There is no overcrew in LH mainline, we are doing about 20% overhours every month. The problem is that our careeroptions are vanishing away.

cheers

[ricky-godf]

warmkiter, this is what you write:

I did my first lineflight 10 years ago on the D-AILT, that plane went to German wings and is now operated by LHITA.
On this particular A/C you can see where our upgrades go. Away, gone, bye bye.... No shortrange planes, no upgrades. That should be so easy figure out that everybody understands...

I believed I was talking with a professionist but it seems you lack some basic understanding in this business.

The company you are working for is leaving 25+ planes on the ground this winter (you know better than me the exact figure) because THEY DO NOT NEED THEM flying for LH.... you can call it over-capacity, credit crunch, how the hell you like....but no sectors flown means no crew requirement!!!!
An aeroplane on the ground needs as many pilot as an aeroplane sold to Africa = zero!!!

No shortrange planes - no upgrade.
Are you trying to say that the reason you are not getting upgrades is because you haven't got enough aeroplanes?
or maybe because they are being flown by cheaper pilots like:
Germanwings- same contract as LH , I understand
LH Italia - you don't even know what the contract is like because there is none.

It would be more honest from you to say that you have no idea how long it will take for you to get command, you are getting quite frustrated about that and you do not want to miss this LH Italia opportunity to speed things up.

[RobinR200]

And by the way... "Just remember, that most companies in italy pay much better than LH does,
so LHITA cant just pay peanuts, they have to pay almost the same like LH does."

And another good point to stop this BS management toy, called LHITA.

They think to operate with lesser costs than us KTV pilots. But what will happen if only italian pilots will steer those LHITA ships. With their striking mentallity???
Correct, they will strike forever to get the same payscheme.

What a big yoke this thing has become.

Good idea to spread the word of a recruitment ban.

[warmkiter]

how long do you think it takes to start a projekt like LHITA? Was it two weeks ago when LH reduced capacities the first time?:} The planning of this projekt started years before, in a time where reduktion of mainline was no issue. Creditcrunch was not even a remote nightmare and bying AZ was discussed seriously.

Dont believe what management says, because they will always make the actual situation work in their arguments. You are right now like a puppet repeating some biz-mantras. This is not the Big Picture!

Business low - Great opportunity to use surplus capasities in a vacuum of competition in Italy:ugh:
Business high - Great opportunity to gain influence in a growing market in Italy:ugh:

You look this situation through a pinpoint hole and therefore see it very limited. Trust me, its way more complicated than you imagine. Its not about LHITA, the fire has started burning in so many different spots long time ago. This is very typical for our management. They generate a huge backlock of good governance, distrust and vaporise companyidentity and wonder later why the pilots strike.

In our companythere is right now a tremendous pressure to negotiate new conditions. Our management will need a lot of mass for trade ins in the negotiations. "Trade ins" means that all the Germanwings, Condor, Aerologic and LHITA positions may be sacrified later for a different cause.

One thing is for sure, all pilots involved in these politics will be just chessfigures in a game. Ask any external pilot been screened for a position in these new companies. They never know what is really going on. The poorest possible communication from a company claiming industry leadership.

Why dont we have upgrades within our contract? LH management is constantly breaking existing agreements like the 70seater rule. (You sure know what that is, dont you?) Its not that we have a lack of aeroplanes, they are just flown by somebody else.

if you try to explain the world to guys who are right in the middle of a battle, you have to wake up really early in the morning and GET INFORMED!

Good luck and good night

[hetfield]

@warmduscher

Very well said;)

[warmkiter]

its warmkiter...:)

choroni in venezuela?

what about adicora?

[Airbus_a321]

Its funny, or better: rudiculous and outrageous to see warmkitter's reply to serious posts, like:

to Ricky
the only clear point is that you have no clue at all...

to Dirk85
1. you have no clue about the biz

to myself
The only clueless here is you A321!

As I wrote in one of my previous posts. Thump UP or DOWN is done by the psychologist (... if you fit in the LH-drawer or not...)
And obviously warmkitter is "a product" of this LH-psycholgical-screening. I am almost shure he PASSED the pschological test.

The way he tries to ban other opinions and verbally harrases other people opinions, gives a picture how they deal within LH with someone not fitting in the LH-mainstream thinking.

Never ever in pprune I saw somone doing this kind of replys like warmkitter did and is still doing :yuk:
Suggest to remove his posts as they are very, very close of having inhuman contents:mad:

[ricky-godf]

don't get me wrong, warmkiter...

I whish you all the best in your battle to secure your jobs and conditions if they are going to be eroded, all the industry will benefit!

You are fighting a battle against movement of jobs proscpects and pilot capacity to other carriers like Condor, germanwings etc etc and now you brought LH Italia in the battleground as well.

The whole point is that this italian subsidiary will be a different animal because is a company operating in Italy on routes that so far are not in competition with Deutsche LH routes, including many domestic ones.

I can tell you from personal experience that if LH wants to gain market shares opening bases across european countries it does need to provide employment opportunities equally to all european citizens.

I am afraid a german company employing only or mostly german would not be welcome by the italian authorities, and this is the main reason why LH is asking for an italian AOC for the new subsidiary and registered the company in Italy.

[The Mixmaster]

Has anyone got any information on what can be expected from the DLR selection for LHITA? As I understand it, there will be a significant amount of computer based aptitude tests, a psych test in Italian and an English interview. Will there be a simcheck on the A319 as well?? If so, if anyone has any info I'd be very grateful for a PM.

Many thanks in advance.

[Eddie_Crane]

[...]any information on what can be expected[...]

40+ page long thread in Italian Forum

[warmkiter]

Ricky-G

I agree with you. As i said, i dont care if LH starts a new company, as long as its not a cheap loco-vehicle for circumnavigating our contract. If LH management thinks the AZ bankrupcy leaves a heard of desperate pilots in Italy willing to work for peanuts, i hope we all pilots will teach them a lesson.:}

A321

Get over of your failed entrytest for LH. Nobody takes you serious if you dont stop whining. There are many ways to fail the DLR test, its not only the psychostuff.... Every airline has its entrytests, only failed LH candidates seem to keep this trauma for life.

How would you like to call nonsense? Suboptimal information?:} I think if i call you clueless, its still actually quite nice. I consider your totally off topic little stings about DLR or the complete nonsense about the actual situation LH/LHITA also verbally and intellectually harassing. But also a bit funny:)

" If he would have kept his mouth shut, everybody would have believed he was a great thinker. Now everybody knows he is a fool."

ciao

[1975]

Hello there.

I applied to LH Italia some weeks back, got a reply that I would have to speak italian. Now I was asked via email if I was still interrested, since they have dropped the italian speaking of the requirement list. I have 2000 F/O hours on the F50, with a well established SOP minded operator:) Does anyone have any info on if there is a holding pool or are they recruiting as we speak??

1975

[EAM]

1975, you should read the other posts, only very few pass the screening becuase the LH guys play bad tricks on the SIM.
So far there is no AOC and noone knows it they will ever hire non LH pilots.
So no rush.

[1975]

I see, will be interresting to go through this process, if so will happen.

[maybepilot]

Does anyone have any info on if there is a holding pool or are they recruiting as we speak??



The company hasn't been set up yet as such, if they asked you if you are still interested it means they are interested in the first place so give it a go holding pool or not!

will be interresting to go through this process, if so will happen.

Yes those who went through it found it very interesting, give it a try!

[EAM]

Just take it easy, there is no rush with that, beeing quick is not an advantage here. Give yourself a min. of 4 weeks preperation, use skytest.com for that.

[hetfield]

Recruitment suspended?

[EAM]

Dont know? Where did you get this from?

[hetfield]

From a very reliable source.....

[TTango]

Any idea if it's a case of applications no longer being accepted (the website still appears open for apps), or is ALL recruitment suspended? Just wondering as I have a date for the DLR in Hamburg...

[hetfield]

According my info no assesment, no contracts ufn....

[witchkino]

really? but i just received an invitation to go to an assessment. do you think that means they will cancel it closer to the time?

[hetfield]

I`m afraid, yes.

[MD11F]

@EAM
Hi there, different threat, but the same story! As I mentioned in the Aerologic threat we will fight for our jobs! I think LH put assesment on hold for negociation with their pilots, with us! :DInside knowledge, you know!:E Let´s see what happens,
Cheers MD11f

[EAM]

Hi MD11F as I already said in the other thread, here I am with your, you a/c, your name, your company,......your jobs.
You can check the italian thread, those guys already hate me for theat. :E
If there is a chance to get a job with LHITA, good. But I dont think so, I have a Sim end of next month, I will give them a call tomorrow because I have to change the date. So I will hear what they say.
I did the same with EN last year and at the end everything was canceled.

But I wish you good luck, these are your jobs and you should fight for it. But you should also keep it fair, LH instructors fail pilots on the SIM for no reason, this is very, very unprofessional. Its simple, we will see if and under which conditions it will be possible to hire pilots for LHITA, so there is no need to fail pilots on the SIM. Very bad, very unprofessional and realy not LH like.

[warmkiter]

LH Pilots and the Management are negotiating and until further notice the screenings for external pilots have been frozen.

This seems to be the first step from the Management towards the union

[TTango]

I'm in Hamburg for selection on Monday - haven't heard anything to suggest otherwise yet...

[Diabolo]

@ MD11F,

Hi,

SUNEXPRESS is a 50%Turkish Airlines and 50% Lufthansa Cie based in Antalya Turkey as far as I know.
Do you guys also fight to get your place there ??? What is the status ?

bye bye,
Diabolo

[Liz]

Do you think they're gonna cancel next monday session? seems really late now. Does anybody have some news ? thanks

[MD11F]

@diabolo
Sunexpress is neither based in Germany, nor using LH as it´s brandname! Aerolgic is based in Germany using LH money, flying for Lufthansa Cargo on MD11 Routes, LH italy is using LH as brandname! So this is a different story, by the way lots of LH pilots flew for Sunexpress recently, all the retired Trainers from Condor working for them, me thinks! Good luck for everybody looking for a job, but not on our expense!
Greets MD11f

[Diabolo]

Hi MD11F,

Thank you for the info regarding SunExpress.
Just one more question please, Do you know what "COMARADERIE" mean ?
Anyway.....
Don't worry I will not try to get a job in LHI... I am very very fine where I am now.
Just one point... When we fight for our rights in France we do this in a very different way.
Good luck to you in your fight and battle against "colleague" or "who ever" you want to name them.
Tchüß ;)

[EAM]

I now can confirm hetfilds post, everything is on hold, I just got an email which canceled my sim for end of august.
I wish you guys good luck, mabe at the end it could be good for both of us, some extra money for the LH pilots and new entries on LHITA, you never know.
One thing I like to mention, LH requested an AOC for LHITA in Italy and to have this, they need to employ pilots for LHITA on an italian contract.

BTW: This is the 2. time my sim for this project has been canceled.:{

[The Mixmaster]

Not just the sims they're cancelling either. Stage 1 DLR assessment also cancelled. I was due out on 3rd August, pretty poor form from LH cancelling at such short notice.

[EAM]

The whole show is pretty poor by LH, including the show started by AirDolomiti about 1 year ago.
And noone realy knows what they would pay for the pilots, all this just due to the name LUFTHANSA, but at the end we should ask ourself, do we realy want to work for these guys?

[Hans Modrow]

Hi folks,

heard from a friend who is flying for LH the following info:
the LH guys and girls from the A300 (left the company last month) will be converted to A320 and then go to Milan.(70 Cpt and 70 Co).
So no need for further pilots from outside the company :bored:. Even no chance for the studentpilots from BRE.

rgds

[hetfield]

heard from a friend who is flying for LH the following info:Sorry to say, but your friend is a knocklehead....

[RobinR200]

we TOLD u guys that it was a BIG JOKE....u wouldnt listen...so dont cry over cancelled terms.

[hetfield]

will they find an agreement with the unions?Yes, 'cause the LHI and other outsourcing activities like Jade, Aerologic, Dolomiti and the Embraer disussion are top issues within LH pilots. The expectations towards the new leaders of their union are very high. They will do EVERYTHING to stop further erosion of their T&E contract (Konzerntarifvertrag).

[claudias]

I think it is more about the future jobs within LH Passage... Germanwings, LH Cargo....

Just look what happened to Condor, Aero Logic & Jade (against LH Cargo)

And LH Cityline wants to belong to LH seniorty as well, so the expansion is outscorced...

If LH Pilots want to fly in Italy, why not?

And it can still belong to the KTV.

[MD11F]

Hi there, hiring ready entries is a common LH procedure, whenever the output of the LH pilotschool cannot satisfy the demand, that´s the time for ready entries! So if anybody wants to work for LH, LHCargo, German Wings, LHI?, Aerologic? you must apply at the LH " Careercenter". No demand at the moment, me thinks, and a waitlist built up at the pilotschool, so it could take a while until ready entries will be needed! Good luck to anybody looking for a job,
Cheers MD11f

[claudias]

@ md11

certainly NOT for aerologic or lhitaly! for the time beeing :ok: altough it seems the LHT is project is frozen for ready entry pilots

sorry.... i have to correct myself... i did not see the "?" behind these company... guten flug!

[Denti]

Yup, aerologic seems to be in a hiring frenzy lately when i can believe my friends at LTU who receive lots of calls to join them.

Although the hiring for LH italia seems to get handled by the careercenter in bremen indeed as you need to send them some additional papers if the application process requires it.