View Full Version : Embraer 170/190 Flap/Slat issues

Colonel Slanders
7th Apr 2009, 17:56
First time poster, and long time "lurker".

I can't help but to notice the frequency of flat/slat issues with the E-jets. Avherald reports 13 incidents (appended below) since Nov. 2008 alone (interestingly, all of the incidents were in Canada). There's been some forum commentary regarding Flybe's flapless landing in 07 and Virgin's in 08. All begging the question as to whether there is a chronic issue here that requires addressing from our friends in Brazil. If I was Air Canada, I'd be pretty p.o.'d given the number of incidents they've endured.

Air Canada E190 at Winnipeg on Apr 1st 2009, flaps failure

Air Canada E190 at Winnipeg on Mar 31st 2009, slat failure

Air Canada E190 at Calgary on Mar 29th 2009, slat failure

Shuttle America E170 at Quebec on Mar 12th 2009, asymmetric flaps

Shuttle America E170 at Edmonton on Mar 14th 2009, flaps failure

Republic E170 near Indianapolis on Feb 27th 2009, flaps problems

Air Canada E190 at Vancouver on Feb 21st 2009, flaps problem

Air Canada E190 at Ottawa on Feb 6th 2009, slat problem

Air Canada E190 at Calgary on Jan 22nd 2009, slats failure

Air Canada E190 at Winnipeg on Dec 27th 2008, slats failure

Shuttle America E170 at Montreal on Dec 11th 2008, flaps problem

Air Canada E190 at Saskatoon on Dec 3rd 2008, slat/flap failure

Republic E175 at Toronto on Nov 13th 2008, flapless landing

7th Apr 2009, 18:17
Wow, that's a lot.
Not as many as CRJ-100 and CRJ-200, though. See "Transport Canada addresses frequent flaps problems of CRJ-200s" (http://avherald.com/h?article=4135e930&opt=1).

So, what does it means?
Could it be that flaps problems are cited more often by the news because they may lead to an emergency landing, thus the passengers and news are all aware that there's an issue with the flight?
Could it be a design flaw?
Could it be the cold weather?
Could it be the operators?
What is the failure/cicles ratio?
So, what does it means?
It means that without more information, it is impossible to formulate a theory, and we're left only with F.U.D.

8th Apr 2009, 15:10
The 145's had a similiar problem in the early days when I was an engineer at BRAL, the flap transmission units were recommended to be dry, IE no lube, what happened was condensation formed and when the aircraft was at altitude the condensation froze, on descent the flaps wouldn't operate, we managed to get them to change there way of thinking and introduced lubrication in the units, the problem stopped, maybe it is something similair on the 170/190's?

8th Apr 2009, 21:13
FlyBe - 4 events submitted by ASR since E195 introduction (fleet of 14).

No "chronic issue" in nearly 3 years of operation.

Pete O Static
8th Apr 2009, 23:08
You think the flaps are bad.......the brakes are even worse! A fine piece of engineering!

FE Hoppy
9th Apr 2009, 09:56
Do you happen to have the tail numbers? Were the Air Canada all the same AC? What maintanance action was taken after the first incident?

If I keep flying a broken jet I can bais the stats as much as I like.

P.S. You joined in APR 09 so you are not much of a lurker.

Whispering Giant
9th Apr 2009, 10:05
Been flying the E195 now for 2 years, and never once had a problem with the slats or flaps.


9th Apr 2009, 13:31
though not a huge sample... I have about 200 sectors in the E170 with never a problem.

14th Apr 2009, 03:02
I fly E190 myself, and I have encountered Slat failure about 3 times in a 12 month period for now. Althought this failure is considerable if you, as in any aircraft, are heavy, landing on ungrooved and/or wet runways. But even with those conditions, this aircraft's aerodynamics are so loyal, manueverability of the aircraft, and autobrake are so reliable, that this issue might not be such a factor to make pilots sweat. Although prelanding preparation, flare considerations, and go-around considerations should be taken into account. Personally I have found most handy to approach at the Vref specified on the QRH and not letting the airplane go beyond this speed, not even 5 knots. Once over the threshold, descend immediately to the runway and not flaring too much, aim the numbers. The most common failure is Slats Zero and Flaps one. This requires you Vref Full + 30 if I recall correctly. This speed mostly will never exceed 158 knots at usual landing weights. At this speeds, this beauty is more than able to stop less than 6500 ft with autobrake selected in MED. In this aircraft using Reverse Thrust is not an issue to consider, because autobrake reduces speed by a predetermined factor, so if you use REV, then autobrake will release brake pressure.
As graphic example I've landed in this configuration with wet runway, at MMMX RWY 05R abeam taxiway B4, and vacating the runway at taxiway G having the aircraft below 60 kts between E and E2. It is amazing to see how this aircraft performs.

FE Hoppy
14th Apr 2009, 06:12
If the slats fail at 0 you should use flap 2.