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Fliegenmong
7th Apr 2009, 14:21
Both Communist countries denying freedoms to their populations, diametrically opposed to everythinf we in the West stand for...

Cuba can offer nothing (But sugar cane ?), China maunfactures vast amounts of...stuff, why the hostility to Cuba, and why the bowing to China?

Don't answer that....

What is the magic number that makes being an awful horrid communist enclave OK if you produce enough cheap crap for western consumption?

Anyone have that number???

China - Communist - Good

Cuba - Communist - Bad

Your in-depth, unbiased opions need only apply, usual suspects can hold fire for now

Shortly we may introduce "WHy let the Saudis off for nothing while attacking someone totally unrelated" You may recall the argument from the "I have a constitutional right to bear arms...therefore innocents being blown away in the street is an acceptable part of life, because it is in the constitution" thread


.........:E.........:{..........:ugh:............:oh:

Rollingthunder
7th Apr 2009, 14:25
I really don't think at all about either. They could drop off the face of the earth and I wouldn't notice, except for the lack of truly crappy goods in dollar stores. Korea will take up the slack.

Storminnorm
7th Apr 2009, 14:52
Don't get me going on about the "Right to bear arms" thing again!!!!
I'll get banned!

PS. Viva Castro, might as well join in. The family will be taking it
in turns to be El Presidente.
Last time I was there I nearly drowned.
It Rained!

S'land
7th Apr 2009, 18:15
Cuba, being a very small nation, is not such a threat to the West as China. Appease the powerful and use the smaller, comparatively harmless nations, as targets for modern McCarthyism.

BenThere
7th Apr 2009, 18:26
So, Fliegenmong,why are you 'propping up' and 'supporting' Mugabe?

Why are you not invading and deposing the despots of Myanmar and Sudan?

Do you like them?

El Grifo
7th Apr 2009, 18:28
Loosely related to the subject.

Just returned from a pretty long job in Dominican Republic, which took me all over the country.

Interesting observation. Left meets Right with hardly a cigarette paper between

Practically impossible for citizens to get exit papers.

Hundreds attempt escape to Puerto Rica and on to US weekly.

Coastguard observation stations dotted around main bays looking out for potential escapees.

All this from a right wing country.


Main difference is that citizens are either driving around in top of the range 4x4's or have no shoes.

Funny old world really

Captain Stable
7th Apr 2009, 18:46
There has been antipathy between Cuba and China for many years, going back to the '60s as I recall, mostly because Fidel cosied up to the Russkies after having had a few very hard pushes in that direction by successive US Presidents including Eisenhower, JFK and Johnson.

Che going hell for leather to export Revolution (with a capital R) singularly upset the big powers further - "It's OUR applecart, and it will upset when WE say so!". Most of that, however, the Chinese loved, so the Russkies hated it. There was a deal done between Kosygin and Castro, and Che was handed over to the CIA via the Bolivian Army.

THAT said, Cuba has quite a few export-worthy goods. Sugar (and therefore rum) is the obvious one, also some cotton, cigars (of course) and some mineral wealth - nickel and cobalt mainly, plus some copper.

Most Cubans of my acquaintance are firmly convinced that Fidel popped his clogs a long time ago, otherwise Raoul wouldn't have dared half the liberalisation he's achieved. Some of them aren't even sure Raoul is still alive, and don't have the faintest idea who's actually making the decisions - but, one way or another, decisions are being made. Perhaps by the ghost of JosÚ MartÝ.

BenThere
7th Apr 2009, 18:50
There was a deal done between Kosygin and Castro, and Che was handed over to the CIA via the Bolivian Army.


That's a beaut, Cap'n!

Captain Stable
7th Apr 2009, 18:56
Sure - Fidel did quite well in quietly disposing of people who might have been a challenge. And Che most certainly would have been that - better-looking than Fidel, a better orator, more popular with the people and the troops...

Check out the death of Camilo Cienfuegos as well.

Check out how many pictures there are around Havana of Guevara, Marti, and Cienfuegos and how few of Fidel - not many - or Raoul - NONE.

Edited to add Carlos Manuel de CÚspedes among the popular icons around the island.

AcroChik
7th Apr 2009, 18:59
Cuba purchases very few 'Bama Bonds.

Watch for material policy compromises out of Washington to China in order to continue funding the economic simulation black hole.

Cuba's quite a nice place to spend a week.

V2-OMG!
7th Apr 2009, 19:08
TTHAT said, Cuba has quite a few export-worthy goods. Sugar (and therefore rum) is the obvious one, also some cotton, cigars (of course) and some mineral wealth - nickel and cobalt mainly, plus some copper.HAT said, Cuba has quite a few export-worthy goods. Sugar (and therefore rum) is the obvious one, also some cotton, cigars (of course) and some mineral wealth - nickel and cobalt mainly, plus some copper.

And 20 billion barrels of offshore oil.

Captain Stable
7th Apr 2009, 19:11
Very true.

Since it was nationalising the oil industry that caused Fidel and the US Government to fall out in the first place, I thought it indelicate to mention... :E

Obama ain't stupid, is he? ;)

AcroChik
7th Apr 2009, 19:25
Maybe Cuba will allow the US to clone its health care policy ~ or even send some "community health organizers" ~ in exchange for US firms providing the technology for getting at all that crude.

That would suit our current Candidate in Chief, who could then slam the oil companies once again and demand an "excess" profits tax.

El Grifo
7th Apr 2009, 19:42
Like others, I have always been of the opinion that Fidel was instrumental in the dispatch of not only Ernesto, but Camilo as well.

My colleague, although Czech by birth, has worked in Cuba for many years.

For many months now he has been convinced that Fidel has shuffled off his mortal coil. He is in a better position than most to hold this opinion.

Maybe Cuba will allow the US to clone its health care policy ~ or even send some "community health organizers" ~ in exchange for US firms providing the technology for getting at all that crude.

Allow me to raise a glass to that one AcroChik :ok:

con-pilot
7th Apr 2009, 19:43
I have stated this before and will state this again; I am in favor of normalizing relations between Cuba and the United States. Castro has outlasted nine US Presidents, not counting Obama, since the embargo was put in place. Kennedy was in office when the total trade embargo was enacted, however, Kennedy did delay the start of the embargo until a rather large shipment of cigars arrived at the White House from Cuba.

The question that should be asked is, will President Obama risk alienating the huge voting block of exiled Cuban/Americans in the United States? The vast majority of are dead set against and type of normal relations as long as any Castro is in power (with some, any Castro still alive). President Obama knows that in the next Presidential election that Florida will be a key state to be carried by whomever wins the election.

In the first few years after normal relations are resumed I believe that tourism will be the main source of foreign income, as in income from the US, for Cuba. After a few years I think the novelty will wear off, but by that time other industries will have recovered from decades of neglect and provide Cuba a vibrant economy.

One thing is for sure, I will do my best helping the Cuban economy by purchasing large quantities of Cuban Rum and Cigars. ;)

El Grifo

I have been to the DR a lot and I agree 100% with your assessment. But, the poor of the DR are still much better off than the poor of its neighboring country of Haiti. I've been to Haiti a few times as well; simply stated it is shocking.

El Grifo
7th Apr 2009, 19:53
Absolutely Con !!

Irony is that the poor bloody Haitians are sneaking over the border in droves to what they see as a "paradise" whilst the Dom Reppers are queuing to get the hell out by any means possible !!

Re your helping with the Cuban economy, may I suggest the fine Anejo Centuria, Caney rum from Santiago.

It's what the Taxi Drivers drink :ok: