QF Ground Handling Contracts

[hewlett]

Can anyone give a management perspective for QFs move away from customer airline ground handling?

There was a time when customer income covered the operating cost for QFs own line maintenance operations(fact ?)by being able to utilise staff who would otherwise be underutilised between company transits.QF are now citing the recent PIA as causal in the loss of contracts,however the move away started well before the PIA and if anything should make the operation more manageable.

Qantas use to be the primary ground handling agent in MEL BNE and SYD but with the current management direction has handed that role to others which seems to be conterproductive in growing a business.:confused:

[domo]

I believe and I talked to a manager about this that it is a plan to allow the other maintenance companies to grow strong so qantas will have somewhere to go during industrial disputes. I sensed that a certain amount was payback due to our pia, and he did mention that the customers unhappiness was the rooted in our pia.I did not mention that it was management that removed us from servicing these customers. I mean he is still my boss

[Clipped]

QE, will allow other 'affiliated' handling companies eg. JHAS, IASA to dwell amongst us, for reasons already mentioned. They do away with $$$ customer payments $$$. They reduce O/T requirements because of the manpower now available for the QF fleet, may even let a few blokes go. They also get to blame us as causing them to be outpriced in the contracts marketplace.

In a year or two they may bid again for contracts, but just like J*, it will be a whole new entity, with new terms and conditions.

It's all a bit too obvious. They've talked about it for a long time and now the final nails are being hammered.

And for the loss of all that revenue (and goodwill)? Well, they'll say that contracts were never profitable.

Buggery.

[Hardworker]

Guys nothing to do with whether the contracts are profitable, QF can't attract engineers, so since they have downsized the business and the A380 is proving to be a disaster with regards to manpower - aka Black Hole, there only option is to terminate or make Handling other operators leave by increasing handing price excessively, to allow manpower to be redistributed within the Engineering umbrella....
Sadly all the experience of handling and goodwill and respect with these customer airlines will be gone....The likes of DH/KM/TG/DM/TD should all be terminated...it is ridiculous, but hey remember, they will all receive a bonus for this redistribution!

[hadagutfull]

Who is to blame for this mess?? The engineers　。。Ｔｈａｎｋｓ　Ｇａｖｉｎ！！！:yuk:
　
Ｉ　ｈｏｐｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｌｏｔ　”ｋｅｅｐ　ｙｏｕｒ　ｅｇｇｓ　ｉｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｓａｍｅ　ｂａｓｋｅｔ”。。。　ｃａｕｓｅ　 ｔｈａｔｓ　
ｗｈｅｒｅ　Ｉ　ｆｅｅｌ　ｌｉｋｅ　ｗｈａｃｋｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕ　ｌｏｔ　ｗｉｔｈ　ｍｙ　ｓｔｅｅｌ　ｃａｐｐｅｄ　ｂｏｏｔ 　
。。。。。　ｇｏｔ　ｔｏ　ｗｅａｒ　ｔｈｅ　ｒｉｇｈｔ　ＰＰＥ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｈｅ　ｊｏｂ。。:ok:　　

Ｕｎｂｅｌｉｅｖｅａｂｌｅ。。。。。

　
:ugh:　:ugh:　:ugh:　:ugh:　:ugh:

ＰＳ　。。　ｗａｓ　ｔｈｅｒｅ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｕｎｉｏｎ　ｍｅｅｔｉｎｇ　ａｔ　ｔｈｅ　ＳＩＴ　ｙｅｓｔｅｒｄａ ｙ？？
Ｗｈａｔ　ｗａｓ　ｔｈｅ　ｆｅｅｌｉｎｇ　ｏｖｅｒ　ｔｈｅｒｅ？？

[rammel]

It's not just Engineering, but also Ramp and Customer Services. For the last 15 years or more, we were told we need to look after our client airlines as they bring in big dollars. Since the time of the pia we have lost quite a few contracts.

A lot of this seems to be the prices we are charging. The prices are so much more than anywhere else that we don't have a chance. Behind the scenes I have talked to the clients an they would've stayed with us if our prices were competitive, not necessarily cheaper. Seeing whoever is in charge of the contracts wouldn't budge, you can only assume that QF doesn't want them.

My view is that QF are a pack of greedy pr!cks who are looking at the short term gain of ridiculously high priced contracts, not the long term value of them. The other ground handling companies may have slightly lower wages, but they are still covered by the same unions as in QF. If the other companies are significantly less than QF, and they are still making a profit then that to me points at QF being greedy. No one starts a business to lose money, so I guess the other companies are looking at the long term potential of all these contracts.

[Ngineer]

Hardworker, your explanation seems the most logical. But if this is the case, why is management bu!!shi+ing us all?

If we are so low on manpower that we cannot take on customer work, why don't they come right out and say it? I believe something more sinister maybe going on here.

[Bumpfoh]

In light of what has transpired with the NZ contract in AUS, as a matter of principle NZ should do exactly what QF did and double the fee at the next contract renewal.

Since there isn't a dearth of engineering handling agents in NZ, remembering that NZ look after all of the Jitconnict aircraft as well as QF transits at all ports in New Zealand one of two things could happen, one QF have to cop it sweet and pay up or two, QF have to start from scratch and set up their own engineering group in New Zealand, either way plenty of $$$.

You reap what you sow you dumb pr1cks!:D:D:D

[hewlett]

Wots to become of the surplus line guys now.Maybe they will get the redundancies identified by lighthouse b4 the pia :confused: and start up a grnd handling operation :E.Its not like they will be in opposition to the rat anymore?

[company_spy]

I think maybe you are all reading a bit too much into all this, the people with their hands on the levers are buffoons. Not the foggyest idea about how to run a "business", the problem I see is that they rely far too much on "data" and "spreadsheets" prepared for them by people who have never worked on or run a line station, and not being from an operational background themselves,they do not posses the common sense gut feeling about anything.

I don't think they are smart enough to formulate some of the conspiracies I have heard bandied around the smoko room. At least we know who is number one on the hit parade with the assn. now......

[SeldomFixit]

I'm well out of touch with the scene but are there enough handling organisations to take on this work ? Who are the players nowadays - I only remember QF in Oz

[Tom Sawyer]

Seldomfixit...if you mean on an engineering basis, at SIT there is;

United Airlines.
Cathay Pacific
Virgin Atlantic
Emirates (maybe back in the game)
John Holland
AMSA
IASA
and maybe in the future Etihad.

All of them gained in last years repurcussions and are looking for more.

[SeldomFixit]

Times have changed since Jack Cydesdale fettled the HS125's I guess. Thanks for the update.

[Ngineer]

And I guess QF's plan to redeploy staff will backfire as most of these companies will need more staff, and drain personel from the QF workforce under better pay and conditions, as they have in the past. (plus the chance of training).

I guess there is a bright side to this after all.:ok:

[Clipped]

the problem I see is that they rely far too much on "data" and "spreadsheets" prepared for them by people who have never worked on or run a line station,

From an accounting perspective.

Now, GH, how would you like those figures to look?

Sustainable future? Too bad our recently ousted senior managers could not sustain their own. Perhaps it's a way for our next layer of management to save themselves - short term cost savings? Then, leave us in the scrapheap we find ourselves in now.

[Ngineer]

Even the lower level of management at the SIT appear to have very little experience in operating in a customer contract line station. A very well orchestrated plan. A true legacy of the idiotic decisions made by middle managemnt, and one that will have them heading for the door before too long.

[hewlett]

Any feedback from meetings held to discuss loss of grnd handling contracts?No info north of the harbour.

[Hardworker]

Well Joyce comes out and says Qantas isnt doing too good, international loads are down and the outlook is bleak, so then why if SIT Line was making in excess of 17M per year in Customer Contracts, handling and rectification, why would you go down the path of terminating them all???
The excuses that they havent been reviewed for many years just doesnt fly, if thats the case, which Mr Harris has been quoted on, then isnt it time the people involved in handling these Customer Contracts be given the sack for basically not dong their job! (Incompentance)
Mr Green & Mr Gouras surely must be held accountable, but hang on wasnt Mr Harris also involved with Customer Contracts & Mr Mc Dermott & Mr Mills, let not forget Mr Deck....accountability isnt a thing QF Engineering Management requires as skill required....it seems to be a prerequiste not to have..
So now the profit forecast is down you would think QF Engineering would be doing the opposite and chasing every possible contract under the sun, taking on as much line work, rectification as possible, under cutting Cathay Pacfiic, AMSA and John Holland, but middle management are going in the opposite direction.....Does the likes of the Board really know whats going on?... or are they happy to accept the lies and rubbish filtered thru to them....I wonder there doesnt seem to be any logic in what management are saying...

[hewlett]

Maybe all part of the master plan?

[Short_Circuit]

Well there is 6 names to go into the bucket of 500 for not meeting KPI's & KRA's not supporting the bottom line.
How many Millions of dollars not being recouped, was that 17 million - 10% of the QANTAS Group 2008/9 forcast profit which could start as early as tomorrow?
10% :ugh:
10% profit increase is anyone listening

[blubak]

As already pointed out,how could any company in business and particularly in these times be so short sighted as to throw away a large source of regular income??
Maybe the profit wasnt as high as they would like(but is it ever??) but at least it was covering wages of quite a few LAME,S and when it came to equip hire,there was money to be made.
As has already been pointed out,you just cant fathom the reasoning of the managers involved and now it looks like it may come back to bite them very very quickly,
NO INCOME=NO JOBS!!
Lets see what excuses come up next-cant wait to hear them.

[Short_Circuit]

Mr Joyce
Next time you are kicking your heals up on a Dugong (A380) tune your IFE into Talking Business books and have a listen to Mathew Kelly's "The Dream Manager"
You will find that in consulting with your front line staff (not the crap from managers), we know the business and have seen it all before over and over again. We have ideas but they are filtered out by middle management (bonus snorters), we have dreams, etc etc. Most of all, he will explain how employees can make you money not cost you money, if only someone listened! When you hear an idea do not jump to saying "how much will that cost but how much will we save/make"!
Just look at the Customer Contract thread, 17 million bucks up for grabs tomorrow.. How can we pass that up without a proper look at it (unfiltered). :ok:
You want options, here is hard cash for nothing......... :)

[chksatis]

Anyone from Brisbane or Melbourne International terminals on this thread, what is the general concencous at your stations??? Considering most of your work was not QF flights, how does this affect your job security?? Wonder why they are only willing to keep the handling agreements in PER and ADL???? Any thoughts??

[hewlett]

Mmmmmmm...........Buggery!

[division1]

Line and Minor Maintenance
http://www.qantas.com.au/img/page_graphics/graphics/about_qantas/engineering/img_line2.jpg
Line Maintenance Engineering Support is available at all Australian International and Domestic Terminals.
Comprehensive ramp and engineering services are provided 24 hours per day by some of the most highly experienced and qualified engineers available in Civil Aviation.
Transit Check inspections, as per individual Maintenance requirements, can be accomplished efficiently and confidently by our highly motivated engineering crews.
Sophisticated ground support equipment and specialist vehicles ensure that your Services achieve reliable 'on time' departures.
Qantas Technical support is never far away, whether it is Fault diagnosis and Troubleshooting, AOG Spares support or Pooling arrangements, Qantas Engineering Line Maintenance will provide world class assistance to avoid or minimise service disruptions to operators experiencing technical difficulties.
All Qantas Line Maintenance Stations can communicate with inbound Aircraft for advice on incoming defects, facilitating the preparation of appropriate resources to preclude unscheduled extended ground time.
For Operators with extended stopovers (subject to location), Qantas Line Maintenance can perform Supplementary or Minor Maintenance inspections up to A Checks - Optimising the Aircraft's down time.
Qantas Engineering has Line Maintenance representation at various locations throughout the world. Many Qantas Engineering Customers benefit from the expertise and services they provide.
Aircraft Operators seeking a Quality Service at a competitive price, should contact ([email protected]) Qantas for Engineering Support.

So doubling and trippling the price of current contacts is competitive?
Nothing but false advertising there.
:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[division1]

o/k, i have taken the liberty of drafting a letter to the other operators
with the aim of regaining some much needed $$$bucks$$$.

what do you think????


Dear Mr. (add airline EGM name here),
We sincerely apologize for any previous disruptions to your services while contracted with Qantas Engineering (Formerly Qantas A.C.S.). We are now in a position to handle your transit maintenance requirements with our highly experienced and motivated staff.

The company has identified and replaced many ‘rouge managers’ within the engineering and maintenance customer contracts and standards department.
We are in the process of re-evaluating the contract costs for handing your operations at (add customers destinations here), and can guarantee a ‘blue ribbon’ turnaround service for (add last years handling charge +10%) plus any equipment, spare parts and rectification manpower of an ad-hoc nature.

We look forward to once again working with (add airline name here), providing your maintenance requirements at ( add customer destinations here) and once more building on the decades of co-operation and dedication to the services we have provided in our past allegiance.

Yours sincerely,
(add name of new contracts manager here)

[hewlett]

Great speel div1.Problem is QF has failed to deliver of late.On good authority some of our middle management would like nothing better than to rebuild what once was, however the problem lies further up the tree.Mr Strambi has a valuable resource that is being wasted.Lets hope sanity eventually prevails.:ok:

[aviator's_anonymous]

Rumor is that QF has lost the contract to handle CX in Adelaide to TOLL/DNATA (who currently handle SQ) with MH to follow suit soon?

[tjc]

For those who are interested, (ABC Inside Business);

CEO sees 'leaner, meaner' Qantas in tough times - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/19/2546694.htm)

[Mikeb744]

QF increased Ground handling (Ramp) Charges buy 50% and just lost CX and China Southern or was it China Airlines ??

Been done in the past, loose contracts,sack stuff, re tender for work and lower price once staff have gone a year or two down the track.

Shame so many people get hurt in things like this!

Bring back Dixon - least i could trust what he said, Joyce has alot to prove.
He has had a easy run so far with the Unions - Me thinks the free ride is about to be over!

[gingerbeer99]

Been trying to bite my tongue but here's the rub. For several years the contracts were managed by a greengrocer who did nothing but mind the shop. Most airlines review their contract ground handling fees yearly and request small increases to keep the fees realistic an in line with wages/CPI growth.
Because the greengrocer thought he was only there to look after the front counter no contracts were ever reviewed for pricing effectiveness/competitiveness/profitability.
Along comes the PIA and directives were given from on high to concentrate all labour onto the QF fleet and suspend the customers, this had a threefold impact.
1/ It gave the customers an opportunity to review thier situation with QF and look at how they could perhaps do it better.
2/ Some were simply so p*ssed of with the way T handled the whole thing they refused to come back to QF.
3/ Once QF were in a position to re engage the customers the blighthouse group ran the numbers and found that hardly any of the previous contacts were commercially viable because they had not been reviewed nor price increases sought during the reign of the greengrocer.
When the new blighthouse fees were proposed the customers had already been given ample opportunity to decided on a new business model and most, if not all, had found better, perhaps cheaper, and more stable providers.
The greengrocer has a new job over the taxiway and the son of a ram, whilst infinately more competent, is left to carry the can and try to sweep up the fallout.

[Sunfish]

Stating the obvious - ground handling is too expensive and QF wants to close it down and contract it out.

[AlanShore]

Div1, I agree but,

The company has identified and replaced many ‘rouge managers’ within the engineering and maintenance customer contracts and standards department.
I hope you meant 'rogue managers' or are you talking about the ones who attend Mardi Gras?

[Ngineer]

boom boom!