Jetlag

[Whenderson]

Hi

Apologies if this is the wrong forum - as a punter not a cabin crew member - but I reckon you are the right people to ask about jet lag.

Just wondered if you had any "old wives tales" cures for it that really work?

I fly from London to the Far East and/or Australia several times a year and jet lag ****s me every time I head east. Even if I'm knackered and go to bed on the first evening around 10pm, I wake in the middle of the night, and then manage to stay awake till about 3pm before I have to collapse for an emergency snooze, and this lasts for at least 3 or 4 days.

I know they say "fight it" and don't go to sleep in the day, but I can't help it, especially on day one.

Never much of a problem flying west.

Anyway, any tips that really work very much appreciated.

By the way, flew last week on QF to and from Melbourne in J, and have to say on all four sectors, some of the best crew I've ever had (and I fly around 60 times a year) and a real credit to the airline.

Thanks in advance

[RevMan2]

Assuming a late night (23:00 LT)departure, don't sleep on the flight until around 05:00 origin time. Gives you about 4 hours or so before they start shaking you awake for brekkie.
Then go and have a session of foot reflexology to rid yourself of swollen feet, a Japanese meal (cleanses the palate and is easily digestible) and LOTS of fluids.
I use beer.
Then off to beddies-byes at around 11 pm destination time and you'll sleep until 6 or 7.
Works wonders on FRA-SIN.
I made the mistake of sleeping from the off on one of my first flights - you're as bright as a button at 03:00 SIN time and then you die a death as from about 11:00.
Right in the middle of a presentation.
Not good.

[kwokwinguk]

Hi Whenderson,

As a long haul flight cabin crew I share your sympathy of getting abnormal sleeping patterns. In my opinion, try adjusting your sleeping pattern before the flight takes place. Take naps rather than prolong sleep.
For me, you can and always fight against sleeping on the day of arrival. Its all in the mind! Works with me.

Kwok (David)

[joeflyguy]

I tried this and works for me but I know some will think its a hideous idea.

I knock myself out on the flight.

Once a/c is airborne I take two of hi strength halsien (sp) sleeping pills. In your case do it on last long sector into destination. I sleep like a SOB into that port and wake feelinf refreshed and ready to go. Have done this several times now and cant believe difference it has made.

Told several of my friends and they do it LAX - AKL and cant believe how refreshed and better they feel.

Wont work for everyone, and to be honest is an issue if you are diverted or there is an incident and you are drugged to the eyeballs.

[wowzz]

To overcome the waking up in the middle of the night syndrome, I swear by melatonin. You may still wake-up at 3 or 4, but in my experience the melatonin helps you drop back off to sleep more or less straight away.

The other advantage is that as melatonin is not a sleeping pill as such, you won't get that 'dozy' feeling when you do wake [hopefully at more or less the correct time!]

[joeflyguy]

Ah but be aware that Melatonin is a prohibited import in many countries now. I know in some it carries a very heavy fine if caught with it.

[wowzz]

True enough - I understand the UAE is tough on everything medicinal, down to headache tablets - a little paranoid I feel.
However in the US melatonin is available in most drug stores and is thought of more as a herbal remedy than a drug.

[BelArgUSA]

A recently retired pilot here.
Flew most of my life on East-West long haul flights.
USA-Europe, USA-Asia/Australia, South America-Europe, South America-Australia.
Never suffered of jetlag. Absolutely never.
xxx
My technique was never to force my body to change to the local time.
Tired...? Went to bed... Getting awake...? Stayed up.
I had breakfast (or equivalent) at times, when local time was 10:00pm.
Or dinner, and enjoy a glass of wine, at 07:00am "local time"...
xxx
Many airlines are good at selecting crew hotels with kitchen open 24 hrs.
Have appointments and feel tired...? No excuses needed.
You made the effort to travel half of the world around...?
They should make the effort to understand your jetlag...
xxx
I am 65 age now... I continue to live that way.
No "get up" time, no "bed time" for me. My body tells me when.
I rest when I feel like it. All day or all night. No alarm clock needed.
Feel as young as a teenager, and can party all night if need be.
xxx
:ok:
Happy contrails

[KitKat747]

The easiest way to overcome jet lag is to sleep when your body tells you to regardless of what the local time is. It is impossible to overcome jetlag completely.

Do as your body tells you to do and you will overcome jet lag as much as it is possible to do so. Staying awake trying to adjust to local time for social reasons will result in tiredeness for days.

Some people can easily sleep on aircraft, I have never been fortunate enough to be able to do that so jet lag probaby affects people like myself more.

[wowzz]

Can I come and live on your planet BelArg ? Most of the slf travelling for business do not have the luxury of taking a nap when they feel like it, nor for that matter do cc. For most of us we have a job to do, during the working hours of whatever country we are in, jet-lag or no jet-lag.

I'm sure most of us could party until dawn if we can sleep all the next day. You do not say if you party all night and then do a full days work. Perhaps that would be more honest of you.

[Sparelung]

Jetlag is a pain in the butt if you have a busy schedule, but the alcohol and drug method of making yourself sleep isn't really advisable and can replace jetlag with conditions much more serious...

Try and avoid medicating yourself too heavily on long-haul flights, the risk of blood clots increases quite dramatically with the use of heavy sedatives - even when you're asleep small muscle twitches move the blood around your muscles enough to prevent clotting, sleeping pills suppress certain states of sleep and prevent that happening. You need to be in a state where you can move about every so often, not comatose for 8 hours!

[RevMan2]

@wowzz

Can I come and live on your planet BelArg ? Most of the slf travelling for business do not have the luxury of taking a nap when they feel like it, nor for that matter do cc. For most of us we have a job to do, during the working hours of whatever country we are in, jet-lag or no jet-lag.

Thanks for giving the rest of the world a reality check

[wowzz]

Thanks RevMan2 - I thought I was the only one out there living in the real world.

[BelArgUSA]

Apologies, RevMan2 - but I described exactly how I was coping as pilot.
My only other advice, maybe applies to business travelers.
Sleep the entire flight, from takeoff to landing.
I can sleep anywhere on a plane. Just give me 2 or 3 glasses of red wine.
That is in case you have to "function" upon arrival.
xxx
That is what I did when flying as passenger.
My interest for in-flight magazines, or movies is absolutely nil.
And often woke-up with the firm "touchdown" on arrival.
xxx
:ok:
Happy contrails

[TopBunk]

Bel Arg wroteMy technique was never to force my body to change to the local time.
Tired...? Went to bed... Getting awake...? Stayed up.
I had breakfast (or equivalent) at times, when local time was 10:00pm.
Or dinner, and enjoy a glass of wine, at 07:00am "local time"...

Sounds great in principle, but as others have said you don't always have the option Bel Arg, either as SLF or crew. It is a frequent occurrence to have to don the uniform just when your body clock wants you to go to bed. Personally I find the Europe-US East Coast 24 layovers among the worst, with the red eye flights back over the pond a killer, I would much prefer a 16 hour East Coast slip - unfortunately they are few and far between - bl00dy passengers and schedules and commercial considerations:{:ouch:

I reckon I spend about 6 nights a month out of bed, and those are hours of sleep that are basically lost for ever. Quality of sleep in an aircraft bunk is lousy and I can't manage controlled rest in the seat at all.

So how do I deal with jetlag? I agree in principle with BelArg - eat when hungry, sleep when tired and it's possible, try to build up a few hours of sleep credit to draw on, etc.

In March, I had a total of 68 hours of time zone change in 11 flights (or over 2 hours per day, 6 hours per flight) and it was tough, to say the least, and certainly not something I see as being healthy to do into your 60's. When you have a block of holiday, you only towards the end (if then) fully settle into a routine associated with your time zone.

[interested123]

It depends on how long you plan to stay away for.

If it is only a short stay 1-3days do as BelArgUSA suggests and wake up and sleep whenever you want.

However if staying for longer, i always find it helps to take a couple of days off before travelling and set my watch to the time it is in the destination, eating and sleeping when they effectively would be.

(Y)

[eliptic]

Travel 10-12 times/year to Manila,,13 hours

The best working for me are 2-3 hours in to flight and after some vine (2 bottles;) excuse me! airline Bottles ofcors) i try sleep "all way"! landing 09.00 and never sleep that day until night.( i used to do the mistake sleeping earlier,,then i get this "jet lag" for shore)

And to much drinking together with the time change are making it MUCH worse :uhoh: , i still have to figure out why in opposite direction i cant get any success,,i am dead for 2 days

[The Nr Fairy]

I watched a BBC programme the other night and some chap had done reserch which led him to think that there's a "food clock" which can be used to more rapidly reset the body clock.

In one of the segments, a racing driver who regularly commutes from the UK to the US fasted before he got on the plane, had nothing but water, and ate a hearty meal at the first mealtime after arriving back in the UK. Anecdotally he said he felt better, but I guess there's more research to do.

Check How to Beat Jet Lag: Don't Eat | LiveScience (http://www.livescience.com/health/080522-food-clock.html) (first Google result for "food clock jetlag").

[Jean-Lill]

In my opinion after 37 years of flying (only 5 years on long haul routes) I never suffered much jet-lag because I did as my body told me to do. Sleep when I felt tired and eat when I felt hungry and ignore local time. It worked for me.

I am married to a medic and he agrees with this.

[skol]

I've been long haul since 1974, still doing it.
Life was hell for a few years trying to get to sleep until I discovered halcion tablets and it's been a breeze ever since. I've been using them for 30 odd years.
Problem is trying to get to sleep, once you're asleep no problem, so generally 1/4 to 1/2 a tablet does the trick.
I sometimes (depending on whether 3 or 4 crew) use them before a long haul night flight so if I don't sleep on board I can make it without having to resort to cockpit napping.

[flapsforty]

Skol what you do is between you, your company drugs testing programme and your conscience. Not for us to comment on.

For everybody else:
Halcion is in the benzodiazepine/valium family.
It's a so-called hypnotic agent, and taking it is generally not considered compatible with working as a pilot or flight attendant.

[skol]

Well that's very authoritarian. I am well aware of what they are.
They are used with the approval of my company and prescribed by the doctor who issues my licence.
If being the only one who can stay awake on the flight deck from time to time is such a bad thing then no doubt you'll have all the answers, so let's hear them

[TightSlot]

you'll have all the answers, so let's hear them
Nobody pretends to have all the answers - each solution is right for that person. Your solution is a chemical one: If it works for you, and is approved and acceptable in your country, then good for you. That same solution may not be approved in other countries, or by other airlines or doctors, and even if it is, may not be appropriate for other people to use. There is an opinion held by some that says that any prescription medicine type solution to jet-lag is incorrect for aviation professionals.

There's no "authoritarian" position being taken - simply a degree of slight surprise that an aviation professional should recommend a prescription drug that is a member of the benzodiazepine/valium family to one and all: Further I'm slightly surprised that you are able, categorically and finally, to state that your ability to stay awake on the flight deck when others can't is caused by the drug mentioned. Believing it to be so is one thing, proving it is another.

Nobody is looking for a fight here skol - just suggesting that a greater degree of thought should be applied before posting your opinions in this way.

[skol]

Censorship is alive and well on Pprune.
I've been using them for decades as mentioned and on departure from the UK on several occasions I can stay awake when others can't because I'm assured of a decent sleep beforehand.
I don't know if you are long haul but consider the scenario of where you start at midnight for a 14 hr flight after being unable to get a decent sleep prior. When it comes to your turn for crew rest you run into continuous mod. turbulence, happens all the time. You don't sleep then either, subsequently you arrive at the other end feeling as if you couldn't ride a bicycle let alone fly an aircraft.
Can I venture to suggest that responsible use is far preferable and more responsible than arriving at the other end in a fatigued state? It's only required occasionally not every flight.

I don't suffer any side effects and wake up feeling I'm ready for work.
Halcion is approved for use but not within a few hours of flying. I could look it up but I can't be bothered because you don't approve anyway.
Despite dire warnings of things that are going to happen to me from time to time I'm as fit as anyone my age when many have fallen by the wayside and either retired, switched to short-haul or lost their licence after inability to endure duties that can induce severe fatigue if not well rested.
Crew are responsible individuals and probably don't require a lecture, especially in view of the fact that you've never tried them.
Experts pontificate all the time about fatigue, drugs, fatigue reports, fatigue mitigation etc but it's often those without much experience of it. Which reminds of an incident that took place many years ago when our cabin crew complained of excessive fatigue on some long haul sectors.
The company doctor was assigned to fly these sectors and report back. After travelling half way around the world and back in first class he reported that he was feeling OK and there didn't appears to be a problem.
But as you say, each to his own.

[TightSlot]

Censorship is alive and well on Pprune.
No, it isn't. None of your posts have been deleted or amended in any way. There had been no attempt, not one, by anybody to censor your posts or restrict your access to post. You may choose to view yourself as some sort of sad martyr to the cause of free speech - the facts prove otherwise.

Your post is further made tedious by an inability to read and absorb the two previous posts by moderators. I don't propose to re-state them here: I have checked and they were both written in plain easily understandable English and should be comprehensible to anybody licensed to fly an aircraft. One (amongst many) sources of information about Halcion may be found at the Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triazolam): It is a fact that there is more than one school of opinion about this drug, although skol would have you believe otherwise. Sadly, most of us do not have the luxury of ignoring facts simply because they are inconvenient to our argument.

The specific subject of Halcion, and the differences of opinion have now been suitably covered: Shall we move on to other aspects of this subject please.

[eliptic]

By which I mean, Lie in bed with the pillow where your feet were and your head where your feet were !! Works evertime :ok::ok: !!

will not work,,stinky feet`s:{ hmm, gas mask:ok: